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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 12, 2020 17:47:31 GMT
The other day my 11 yo had a baseball game in a nearby small town. DH is an assistant coach. Throughout the game, the ump was making terrible calls such as saying a ball was fair but indicating with his hands that it was foul that caused confusion on both sides (it was way foul), calling pitches strikes when they were above the batter's eyes, etc. Parents on both sides were irritated, but not overly loud about it. Our head coach asked the ump about the pitches and why he called them the way he did a few times. I heard DH say "be consistent" in a frustrated tone but not aggressive or over the top. After the ump made a really bad call. Our coach asked the ump about the pitch. The head coach was very respectful and comes across as more of a passive person. The ump came over to the dugout and talked to the coach. Next thing we knew, he told DH that he was "out of here". I was not that close to the dugout so didn't know what else was being said or what had happened. DH quietly packed up his things and walked out.
After the game, I asked DH what happened and he said that the ump asked him what he said (to one of the other assistants) and he said, "Be consistent". That is when the ump said "You are out of here." He then said that he would call the police and when DH was getting his things packed up he said, "We are waiting." Everyone was quiet as DH was leaving.
I don't want to jump to the conclusion that racism was at play here, but I do question it. Last night I was talking to another mom who was there (her husband is also another coach) and they both said that it was way out of proportion and that their son (and mine) had said that the ump was racist. She asked her DH who was going to stand up for my DH since apparently word has gotten around that he was ejected and it could affect his ability to coach now and in the future. He will for sure have to sit out one game (can't even watch). At this point, I would imagine that the others there have forgotten about the incident as it doesn't really pertain to them.
So, would you see this as an inappropriate action by the ump? If so, would you contact the board of the opposing team's baseball league and let them know what happened?
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johnnysmom
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Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Jul 12, 2020 17:53:13 GMT
It's hard to say without being there, but if things happened as you said then the umps response seemed over the top to say the least. That said, I don't think *you* should contact the opposing team. I think your league president should take this whoever he sees fit (the opposing team board, whoever oversees the umps, etc).
ETA: sorry your dh is dealing with this, if his race was a factor whatsoever it's positively disgusting that the ump behaved that way not only as a human being but in front of all those kids.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 12, 2020 17:54:08 GMT
Not a sports person, but that seems like an waaay over-the-top reaction to a very mild comment. I would certainly question it with people who know more about baseball than I do.
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Post by destined2bmom on Jul 12, 2020 17:58:46 GMT
That is awful. I don’t think that your DH said anything out of line. Unless he had a tone that was misconstrued as condescending and ticked the other guy off. But I would contact the Coach and others who saw and heard the interaction between your DH and the ump and write emails to give their versions of what they witnessed.
Then send all of them to the other league’s board and report it. I would also report the ump to your league and let them know what happened.
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Post by myshelly on Jul 12, 2020 17:59:08 GMT
It’s impossible to say without being there or knowing the rules of your league.
In all the sports leagues here that my kids have played in, there is a rule that any parent or spectator who expresses frustration or criticism to the umpire or referee during the game is ejected with no warnings given.
It keeps the games civil, less stressful, and appropriate for kids. It helps everyone remember that it’s not pro sports, there’s no need to get that emotional about it.
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muggins
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Post by muggins on Jul 12, 2020 17:59:57 GMT
So the other adults who witnessed this and said it was racist did not step up and call the umpire out at the time? They just stayed silent while your DH packed up his things and left.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 12, 2020 18:11:00 GMT
I will start by saying I haven't a clue if the ump is racist - I will say as a parent on the umpire side of things - well actually in our case it was refereeing soccer - I have no doubt the "not overly loud parents" were definitely a factor and a head coach asking "a few times" to clarify calls were all definitely at play. The reality is it is EXTREMELY difficult to find enough qualified umpires and referees as parents, coaches and players are absolutely obnoxious - which is then exacerbated as you have inexperienced umpires and referees who don't make the best calls. My daughter was about 11 - maybe 12, but looked much younger than her age. Side reffing a 7-8 year old soccer game and a parent shouted at her over an offsides call. It was utterly ridiculous - this call makes absolutely zero difference in any scheme of anything. She kicked her out of the game and the much older center ref backed her up completely as they have such a hard time keeping refs they do not allow a parent to interact with the refs at all. Bad calls happen. Bad umpires happen. If they were really not qualified - which if they were calling and gesturing differently, I'd assume they werent'. I would have followed up with whatever league after the game. They're 11 - parents, coaches, etc can realize that perhaps this particular day they were going to have to suffer through training an umpire who wasn't perhaps quite up to task. My kids - well really my son has played a ton of different sports over the years- being the parent of an official utterly changed my view on what was acceptable when frustrated with bad calls.
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janeliz
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Post by janeliz on Jul 12, 2020 18:14:20 GMT
I’ve been watching baseball and softball games (school, rec, and travel) for over a decade now, I’m married to a coach who loves to argue calls, and I’ve never seen a coach ejected for what you’ve described. I’ve seen all kinds of umpires, some with thicker skins than others, and it takes a kind of egregious behavior that is obvious to everyone on and off the field. Consistency is such a common complaint with umpires, and it’s normally not an offense that raises umpires hackles.
It doesn’t make you a Karen to wonder if there is something else at play here. I wouldn’t hesitate to contact the appropriate person or board and, at the very least, see if you can find out if this is something this umpire has done before, etc.
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Post by mom on Jul 12, 2020 18:25:20 GMT
I am confused as to why the two kids thought he was racist? Nothing I've read in your OP jumps out as racism. A bad umpire? Absolutely. But it seems from your OP the umpire was being bad towards both teams. IMHO the frustration you heard in your DH's voice could have possibly come across differently to someone who doesn't know your DH.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 12, 2020 18:29:55 GMT
I am confused as to why the two kids thought he was racist? Nothing I've read in your OP jumps out as racism. A bad umpire? Absolutely. But it seems from your OP the umpire was being bad towards both teams. IMHO the frustration you heard in your DH's voice could have possibly come across differently to someone who doesn't know your DH. The fact that he singled my husband (the only non-white person there) and that he threatened to call the police. Dh was not doing anything that would have warranted a threat to call the police. |
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Post by mom on Jul 12, 2020 18:34:05 GMT
I am confused as to why the two kids thought he was racist? Nothing I've read in your OP jumps out as racism. A bad umpire? Absolutely. But it seems from your OP the umpire was being bad towards both teams. IMHO the frustration you heard in your DH's voice could have possibly come across differently to someone who doesn't know your DH. The fact that he singled my husband (the only non-white person there) and that he threatened to call the police. Dh was not doing anything that would have warranted a threat to call the police. Ahh ok. That makes sense. I don't think anyone not there and actually witnessing this could make a call of racism since we didn't hear or see anything. It could have been racism or it could have been an umpire who was tired of hearing everyone complain. Edited: *I* would not do anything about this. If DH wanted to address it with the league then he should do it. But I would base my claim on the crappy umpire vs. it maybe being racism. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 12, 2020 18:45:34 GMT
I will start by saying I haven't a clue if the ump is racist - I will say as a parent on the umpire side of things - well actually in our case it was refereeing soccer - I have no doubt the "not overly loud parents" were definitely a factor and a head coach asking "a few times" to clarify calls were all definitely at play. The reality is it is EXTREMELY difficult to find enough qualified umpires and referees as parents, coaches and players are absolutely obnoxious - which is then exacerbated as you have inexperienced umpires and referees who don't make the best calls. My daughter was about 11 - maybe 12, but looked much younger than her age. Side reffing a 7-8 year old soccer game and a parent shouted at her over an offsides call. It was utterly ridiculous - this call makes absolutely zero difference in any scheme of anything. She kicked her out of the game and the much older center ref backed her up completely as they have such a hard time keeping refs they do not allow a parent to interact with the refs at all. Bad calls happen. Bad umpires happen. If they were really not qualified - which if they were calling and gesturing differently, I'd assume they werent'. I would have followed up with whatever league after the game. They're 11 - parents, coaches, etc can realize that perhaps this particular day they were going to have to suffer through training an umpire who wasn't perhaps quite up to task. My kids - well really my son has played a ton of different sports over the years- being the parent of an official utterly changed my view on what was acceptable when frustrated with bad calls. The head coach gave the indication that he wanted to know what was wrong with the pitches so that the kids could learn but I know a big part of it was that they were all confused about his stroke zone, among other things. I agree that it would be difficult to be an ump, and even worse when you are not that good at it since that is when people get even more frustrated. But I still think his reaction was over the top. I have seen way worse behavior from coaches and fans and never seen a coach get thrown out. |
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luckyjune
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Post by luckyjune on Jul 12, 2020 18:49:26 GMT
So the other adults who witnessed this and said it was racist did not step up and call the umpire out at the time? They just stayed silent while your DH packed up his things and left. This is what bothers me most too. Others should have taken the risk of being thrown out by taking a stand. If the rule is ejection for making a comment, fine. But the calling the police part and the "We are waiting" part are aggressive and an abuse of perceived authority. Plus, knowing an ejection puts your husband's future coaching in jeopardy...that's an awful lot of power for someone umping a kids' baseball game. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 12, 2020 18:53:31 GMT
So the other adults who witnessed this and said it was racist did not step up and call the umpire out at the time? They just stayed silent while your DH packed up his things and left. This is what bothers me most too. Others should have taken the risk of being thrown out by taking a stand. If the rule is ejection for making a comment, fine. But the calling the police part and the "We are waiting" part are aggressive and an abuse of perceived authority. Plus, knowing an ejection puts your husband's future coaching in jeopardy...that's an awful lot of power for someone umping a kids' baseball game. That was my thought as well. Seemed at the very least the ump was trying to assert his authority and was on a power trip. |
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luckyjune
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Post by luckyjune on Jul 12, 2020 18:55:52 GMT
And P.S. this does NOT make you a Karen! Far from...
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QueenoftheSloths
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Post by QueenoftheSloths on Jul 12, 2020 18:56:11 GMT
I will start by saying I haven't a clue if the ump is racist - I will say as a parent on the umpire side of things - well actually in our case it was refereeing soccer - I have no doubt the "not overly loud parents" were definitely a factor and a head coach asking "a few times" to clarify calls were all definitely at play. The reality is it is EXTREMELY difficult to find enough qualified umpires and referees as parents, coaches and players are absolutely obnoxious - which is then exacerbated as you have inexperienced umpires and referees who don't make the best calls. My daughter was about 11 - maybe 12, but looked much younger than her age. Side reffing a 7-8 year old soccer game and a parent shouted at her over an offsides call. It was utterly ridiculous - this call makes absolutely zero difference in any scheme of anything. She kicked her out of the game and the much older center ref backed her up completely as they have such a hard time keeping refs they do not allow a parent to interact with the refs at all. Bad calls happen. Bad umpires happen. If they were really not qualified - which if they were calling and gesturing differently, I'd assume they werent'. I would have followed up with whatever league after the game. They're 11 - parents, coaches, etc can realize that perhaps this particular day they were going to have to suffer through training an umpire who wasn't perhaps quite up to task. My kids - well really my son has played a ton of different sports over the years- being the parent of an official utterly changed my view on what was acceptable when frustrated with bad calls. Just want to say, I think your daughter is very brave to put herself out there like this. I don't know how recent your story is, but within the last year or so, I know I have seen several stories on the news about parents or coaches not just verbally but physically attacking referees/umpires. |
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craftykitten
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Jun 26, 2014 7:39:32 GMT
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Post by craftykitten on Jul 12, 2020 19:07:56 GMT
I am really sorry that this happened.
The fact that your DH was singled out for his comment, and threatened with the police...i think you are right to be concerned.
To all those saying "it might not be racist"...haven't we just spent weeks learning about how racism is systemic? It doesn't just mean calling someone a racial slur, it's treating someone differently because of their skin colour, it's the immediate escalation to callkng the police. If the umpire does this all the time to everyone, *maybe* you could say it's not racist.
OP, you are absolutely not being a 'Karen'.
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Post by pierkiss on Jul 12, 2020 19:10:41 GMT
Call the overseeing board and file a complaint. Both for the bad calls and the completely ridiculous ejection from the game. Have as many details as possible, and provide witnesses if possible.
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scrapngranny
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Post by scrapngranny on Jul 12, 2020 20:48:28 GMT
I would address the bad calls and your DH being ejected from the game. I state FACTS as you know them, keep it simple and to the point. It would be best to leave the racism out of it. You don’t have any proof that is fact. It could backfire and make it look like you are accusing him of racism because it is a hot button issue right now. If you have any facts of this issue, by all means make it known.
I’m sorry you have to go through these feelings of always wondering if people you come in contact with are racist. Whenever someone is a jerk you have to question whether they are just a jerk or if they are racist. Something a white family never has to experience. I’m sorry your kids have to grow up in world like this, in the year 2020.
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Post by allison1954 on Jul 12, 2020 21:17:22 GMT
Actually, I would have DH do it.
What your DH told you was said, his tone etc, you admit you didn’t hear. It is hearsay.
Could the umpire have said, enough already and your DH opened his mouth one more time?
Or anything similar
Not everything is racism
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Post by 950nancy on Jul 12, 2020 21:27:18 GMT
I have no idea if racism played a part, but I have seen lots of hot heads on umpires and fans and coaches with little leagues up to college leagues. People seem to forget it is a sport. That ump probably thought all of the calls were good and assumed the coach was trying to get in his head. I'd walk away.
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Post by sam9 on Jul 12, 2020 22:04:04 GMT
My DH has been head coach of different baseball teams for years now. In our area, for the most part, coaches and umps get along really well, even though there have been times that an ump is young and inexperienced. I’ve been at a couple of games where both teams just chuckle and give in to the randomness of calls. No one, except the umps, is being paid (very nominally) so we accept imperfection. I’ve never seen a game where an ump is biased towards a team so that helps. Around here, baseball fans/parents are very respectful and I’ve never witnessed any incidents.
All that said, my DH did get thrown out of a tournament game once. Our team questionned a call, the ump decided against us, and DH muttered about it to one of his assistant coaches, no swearing or anything like that, hardly audible in fact, but the ump heard him and he was thrown out. It was kind of shocking. It’s the first and last time that I’ve seen it at baseball. Don’t ask about hockey though. 😬🙄
Not having been at your husband’s game, I have no way of knowing what happened, but since you’re telling us about it, I’m taking your side. Is there a system in place for the head coach to report the incident to your baseball association?
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muggins
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Post by muggins on Jul 12, 2020 22:10:27 GMT
I am really sorry that this happened. The fact that your DH was singled out for his comment, and threatened with the police...i think you are right to be concerned. To all those saying "it might not be racist"...haven't we just spent weeks learning about how racism is systemic? It doesn't just mean calling someone a racial slur, it's treating someone differently because of their skin colour, it's the immediate escalation to callkng the police. If the umpire does this all the time to everyone, *maybe* you could say it's not racist. OP, you are absolutely not being a 'Karen'. I agree. A white man threatening to call the police on a black man because he said two words in a tone he didn’t like (in response to his poor umpiring) is racist and must have been quite humiliating for Kristin’s DH. This is one aspect of systemic racism we have been talking about for months and I’m surprised so many people are brushing it off. Giving white people the benefit of the doubt when treating black people like shit is why racism still exists. |
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Post by ~summer~ on Jul 12, 2020 22:19:22 GMT
This is horrible and yes you should file a report. I’m so sorry.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 12, 2020 22:23:40 GMT
My DH has been head coach of different baseball teams for years now. In our area, for the most part, coaches and umps get along really well, even though there have been times that an ump is young and inexperienced. I’ve been at a couple of games where both teams just chuckle and give in to the randomness of calls. No one, except the umps, is being paid (very nominally) so we accept imperfection. I’ve never seen a game where an ump is biased towards a team so that helps. Around here, baseball fans/parents are very respectful and I’ve never witnessed any incidents. All that said, my DH did get thrown out of a tournament game once. Our team questionned a call, the ump decided against us, and DH muttered about it to one of his assistant coaches, no swearing or anything like that, hardly audible in fact, but the ump heard him and he was thrown out. It was kind of shocking. It’s the first and last time that I’ve seen it at baseball. Don’t ask about hockey though. 😬🙄 Not having been at your husband’s game, I have no way of knowing what happened, but since you’re telling us about it, I’m taking your side. Is there a system in place for the head coach to report the incident to your baseball association? The association already knows that he was ejected but don’t know the circumstances. Or at least they didn’t. The other mom that I was talking about said that she ran into a board member and they were talking about it. She told the board member that it was an overreaction from the ump and what was said. Dh is also on the board but we will see what they end up saying/doing about it. I think that a complaint would make more of an impact if it came from someone other than me or dh. I just have a feeling that people will forget about it and move on, even if they feel that the situation was wrong. That is why I brought the question here to see what others would do. |
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Post by librarylady on Jul 12, 2020 22:42:36 GMT
It will be more powerful if it comes from others, not you or DH....especially someone from the other team.
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Post by sam9 on Jul 13, 2020 14:02:53 GMT
I’m so sorry this happened to him. Baseball is one of the best things about summer.
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Post by silverlining on Jul 13, 2020 15:29:38 GMT
I think the threat to call the police was way out of line if your dh was not arguing his ejection and was packing up his things. If others observed that, they should make a complaint.
It sounds like the ump didn't even hear the remark and your dh answered him politely and repeated it for him, right?
It sounds like racism to me, but I think it's best for people to complain about the ump's actions and not make assumptions about why he did what he did. The strongest complaint would be that the ump violated some written policy. If that isn't possible, people could complain about unfair treatment of one of the two coaches.
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iluvpink
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Post by iluvpink on Jul 13, 2020 16:15:36 GMT
I know nothing about sports and umps etc. my dad only played rec soccer for a year or two and I’m so not a sports parent.
But the fact that the guy threatened to call the police over a very mild comment makes me think he’s the Karen here.
I think someone needs to know about the ump’s behavior.
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Post by smasonnc on Jul 13, 2020 17:47:06 GMT
I’ve picked my fair share of bleacher splinters out of my backside and I’ve seen parents and coaches thrown out for minor things many times. I almost got thrown out once and I wasn’t even the one mouthing off (for a change).Usually it follows a lot of mouthiness from the peanut gallery and the next one to open their mouth gets tossed even on their first comment.
The officials at a youth ballgame aren’t always very good. (I’m sure that’s not news.) I wouldn’t go looking for racism here. The guy was just a $#itty ump with a short fuse. Plenty of them around and they’re equal opportunity offenders. I would report him to the league. If they get enough complaints they won’t hire him as often.
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