Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 19, 2024 10:42:29 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2020 23:32:22 GMT
Spilling the tea on Design Teams - "Paid in Glitter".
She confirms my fears about design teams - all work, little reward - other than product. If that's your thing, that's AWESOME. But I think folks should go in w/their eyes open.
I had a friend on a LSS design team and I could see how much work she had to put in, how crazy the deadlines were, how much she had to do pages that weren't her style - which meant those pages lived in her albums as a source of "ugh, yeah, I had to do that one" or she had to rescrap those photos more in her style - which defeated the whole "I would be doing it anyway, so I can get paid to do it in product" argument.
Anyway, here's the video.
|
|
fireant
Shy Member
Posts: 30
May 30, 2016 15:37:54 GMT
|
Post by fireant on Jul 19, 2020 1:18:20 GMT
oooh interesting. About a week ago some other mixed media folks did a livestream round table on the topic of design teams. Their consensus was pretty much the opposite. Basically they say if you want to be paid in more than product then design teams are not for the likes of you. Let me dig up the link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACaFlqpbcgM (WARNING: the stream is 4 hours long! Skip around to find the good stuff.)
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Jul 19, 2020 2:24:22 GMT
YT has been suggesting this video to me for a while but I didn’t feel game to watch something so long without any familiarity with the channel. (ETA: until now! I watched it) But she seems cool. I’ll check out her channel - I like crafty people that focus on actual craftiness, making do, being creative. I get tired of watching weekly advertising videos and especially when the channel has a new “favorite, best ever” something every single week.
It sounds like she was WAY overcommitted, which is perhaps a separate issue. I can see where being on one or two teams that genuinely match up with your tastes and skills could make sense. I’m thinking of some of AE’s people who would clearly be using all of her products no matter what, and not much else, so it makes for a good partnership. Until they’re asked to shoot video classes... sigh. That’s where it can get dicey - when the expectation is out of line with the person’s strengths. A project and a blog post each month might be no big deal, but it looks like it can get out of hand pretty quickly.
I’ve been reading a lot on IG about paying people for their labor as a general concept, and it seems like brands have gotten a very good deal exploiting people (women especially) to create advertising with minimal compensation. One person gave the example of spending 20 hours coming up with, filming, and editing a video + social media posts and being offered payment in the form of the product she could buy for $20, which means it probably cost the brand $5... um, no. and then everyone says “oh but at least you LOVE your work!” And yeah, maybe they love bits of it. But it’s also work. Editing a video is not many people’s idea of fun. Most people do work because they are getting paid, or because they know the work contributes to the good of something important to them.
DTs are not for me. I don’t want to create on a deadline, I don’t want to be beholden to a brand, especially if it turns out that brand stands for stuff I don’t agree with. I don’t want to be told “you can’t say that” and I’m so sick of being constantly advertised to, I don’t want to be part of the problem.
But if you know what you’re getting into and it suits your way of working, and you love the brand and what they stand for, I imagine it could be fun.
|
|
msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
|
Post by msliz on Jul 19, 2020 3:21:43 GMT
YT has been suggesting this video to me for a while but I didn’t feel game to watch something so long without any familiarity with the channel. But she seems cool. I’ll check out her channel - I like crafty people that focus on actual craftiness, making do, being creative... ... It sounds like she was WAY overcommitted, which is perhaps a separate issue. I can see where being on one or two teams that genuinely match up with your tastes and skills could make sense. I’m thinking of some of AE’s people who would clearly be using all of her products no matter what, and not much else, so it makes for a good partnership. Until they’re asked to shoot video classes... sigh. That’s where it can get dicey - when the expectation is out of line with the person’s strengths. A project and a blog post each month might be no big deal, but it looks like it can get out of hand pretty quickly... I started watching her channel years ago. I love her. She has such a gentle way about her, and she's very good about helping beginners feel confident and helping people feel good about creating even when they don't have the fancy expensive new thing. Her approach is to just try something and then see what happens. You don't have to plan the end product out; you can just enjoy the process. Jo, you mentioned overcommitment. That was the main thing I remember from the video ( I watched it a while ago.) It was definitely eating into her mommy time. I imagine she was perhaps also was feeling limited as an artist. It's a long video, but worth it if the topic interests you at all.
|
|
FurryP
Drama Llama
To pea or not to pea...
Posts: 7,274
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 19:58:26 GMT
|
Post by FurryP on Jul 19, 2020 7:28:46 GMT
I'll take your word for it. I was already getting antsy that she talks too much and then I realized the video was 45 min. No thanks.
|
|
|
Post by sleepingbooty on Jul 19, 2020 11:02:33 GMT
One person gave the example of spending 20 hours coming up with, filming, and editing a video + social media posts and being offered payment in the form of the product she could buy for $20, which means it probably cost the brand $5... Advertising/promotion expense = deductible business expense. It literally costs the brand nothing (but it takes away some tax revenue for society as a whole whereas they don't contribute to society by paying their DT members and thus don't contribute to pension, healthcare, etc.).
|
|
|
Post by sleepingbooty on Jul 19, 2020 11:07:47 GMT
I'd say you are giving up time that could be converted into making a small salary, saving money for your future, working towards retirement + pension, paying for healthcare and so on. Consider if making your hobby a part-time activity with work-like commitments (deadlines, mandatory use of particular products, social media promotion) without any of these important perks is worth it to you in the short and long run. It would definitely not be for me.
|
|
|
Post by honeypea on Jul 19, 2020 13:30:04 GMT
Ages ago I would have loved to be on a CT. I was strategically working in that direction. And then I saw something from Lisa/Glue Stick Girl that brought me to a screeching halt. This was 2012 or 2013ish, and she did an office tour, I guess? What I remember was her showing crate after crate after crate of layouts. Stacked up everywhere, in closets, shelves, all over! Hundreds and hundreds of completed layouts, basically tossed aside to move into the next project. It made me so sad. Scrapbooking to me is an enjoyable labor of love and my projects mean everything to me! I realized that the DTs are often cranking things out for deadlines, or using stuff just to showcase a product, reusing the same photos over and over because it’s a good jumping off point to show the STUFF, not preserve their memories.
It changed my view in an instant.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 19, 2024 10:42:29 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2020 13:57:22 GMT
One person gave the example of spending 20 hours coming up with, filming, and editing a video + social media posts and being offered payment in the form of the product she could buy for $20, which means it probably cost the brand $5... Advertising/promotion expense = deductible business expense. It literally costs the brand nothing (but it takes away some tax revenue for society as a whole whereas they don't contribute to society by paying their DT members and thus don't contribute to pension, healthcare, etc.). I also think a lot of DT folks want to use their DT expenses as deductible expenses - printers, cameras, laptops, ipads, etc. Not sure how legal that is, since I'm not sure if being on a DT qualifies as having a business.
|
|
|
Post by peachiceteas on Jul 19, 2020 14:10:13 GMT
Scrapbooking to me is an enjoyable labor of love and my projects mean everything to me! I realized that the DTs are often cranking things out for deadlines, or using stuff just to showcase a product, reusing the same photos over and over because it’s a good jumping off point to show the STUFF, not preserve their memories. I completely agree with this thought. It's becoming more apparent to me that people create projects and pages 'just because' they have to showcase the product. I don't believe that these people just happened to take a hike last week that perfectly compliments an outdoor themed stamp or collection, or genuinely wanted to create a spread in their pocket page album about a meal and use the latest food kit. I think they're creating for the sake of it, and will end up with TN's and albums just full of stuff not in chronological order - or perhaps even any order that makes sense - all for the sake of it. The thought of my memory keeping becoming so disorganised makes me shudder.
|
|
|
Post by elegantsufficiency on Jul 19, 2020 14:14:25 GMT
Obligation is a sure fire way to suck all joy out of any fun activity. Ask any of us who have agreed, in a weak moment to make something for a friend, to recreate a project for some reason or yes, fulfil our side of a bargain.
No thanks.
|
|
|
Post by needtime2scrap on Jul 19, 2020 15:14:01 GMT
Over 6 years ago I was on a local DT, got the monthly kit and made at minimum 6-8 layouts plus blog posts, heavy involvement on their message board etc. I was on that team for almost 3 years, then my Grandma gets cancer and is in the hospital. We were very close and they didn't give her long to live. I asked to be let go from the DT. I got an OK and not one word of thanks for my time! You could tell who were the favorites on the team for sure. They were the ones who could submit stuff late, only do a couple of cards. I was soured after that. I never went back.
|
|
|
Post by hop2 on Jul 19, 2020 15:44:20 GMT
Funny thing is, all these years later the pages I was ‘forced’ to do are some of my favorites. No, not the ones with product sneeze because I ‘had’ to use so much product. But the ones that were products I wouldn’t have bought it thought to use without that push. Some of those even edge out some of the ones when I formed my own ‘kit’ lol.
In my case I did go in with my eyes open, the deadlines weren’t that bad and it was pre social media so I think I was not overly stressed.
|
|
|
Post by hop2 on Jul 19, 2020 15:51:36 GMT
I realized that the DTs are often cranking things out for deadlines, or using stuff just to showcase a product, reusing the same photos over and over because it’s a good jumping off point to show the STUFF, not preserve their memories. It changed my view in an instant. I can spot those layouts instantly, the ones where the DT had a product so completely outside of what fits their lives. I really dislike when a layout highlights the product and you have to search for the picture. Oh there it is under that leaf, lol Thankfully I never had to use anything really outside my life. The hardest one might have been the beer based paper but that was assigned right after we did beer making for our anniversary. I was like whew I have pictures for this. Lol
|
|
msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
|
Post by msliz on Jul 19, 2020 15:58:17 GMT
Over 6 years ago I was on a local DT, got the monthly kit and made at minimum 6-8 layouts plus blog posts, heavy involvement on their message board etc. I was on that team for almost 3 years, then my Grandma gets cancer and is in the hospital. We were very close and they didn't give her long to live. I asked to be let go from the DT. I got an OK and not one word of thanks for my time! You could tell who were the favorites on the team for sure. They were the ones who could submit stuff late, only do a couple of cards. I was soured after that. I never went back. That's terrible. I'm sorry.
|
|
pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
|
Post by pancakes on Jul 19, 2020 16:08:26 GMT
I’ve been on one DT and it was probably as good of a DT as you could be on. Deadlines well known, flexible projects, no video component necessary, nice owner.
It was still a pain. If you scrapbook with a regular cadence, it can be a lot easier. But if you don’t, life will get in the way of meeting those deadlines and it’ll become a chore to churn out the layouts. Especially if you didn’t want to “seem” like the slacker on the team and wanted to make something really creative.
|
|
|
Post by lasteve1 on Jul 19, 2020 16:13:26 GMT
Advertising/promotion expense = deductible business expense. It literally costs the brand nothing (but it takes away some tax revenue for society as a whole whereas they don't contribute to society by paying their DT members and thus don't contribute to pension, healthcare, etc.). I also think a lot of DT folks want to use their DT expenses as deductible expenses - printers, cameras, laptops, ipads, etc. Not sure how legal that is, since I'm not sure if being on a DT qualifies as having a business. Tax attorney here. This is a complicated area that gets audited a lot (not in the craft world, but just in general people trying to turn their hobby into a tax write-off). Generally, you can't do that. You need to actually be engaged in the activity with the intent to earn a profit before you can write off expenses and usually you can't have another day job. There are a lot of factors that are considered to determine whether or not it qualifies as a "for profit" endeavor, but if it's something that people do for fun (e.g. crafts, singing, sports) it's pretty hard to prove that's its your actual business. Bottom line: Writing off scrapbooking supplies to reduce your taxable income? That's a red flag asking to be audited...
|
|
|
Post by refugeepea on Jul 19, 2020 16:38:08 GMT
No surprise there!
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Jul 19, 2020 18:35:40 GMT
I also think a lot of DT folks want to use their DT expenses as deductible expenses - printers, cameras, laptops, ipads, etc. Not sure how legal that is, since I'm not sure if being on a DT qualifies as having a business. Tax attorney here. This is a complicated area that gets audited a lot (not in the craft world, but just in general people trying to turn their hobby into a tax write-off). Generally, you can't do that. You need to actually be engaged in the activity with the intent to earn a profit before you can write off expenses and usually you can't have another day job. There are a lot of factors that are considered to determine whether or not it qualifies as a "for profit" endeavor, but if it's something that people do for fun (e.g. crafts, singing, sports) it's pretty hard to prove that's its your actual business. Bottom line: Writing off scrapbooking supplies to reduce your taxable income? That's a red flag asking to be audited... I assume that some people who get more into DTs and making a name for themselves online may also be signed up with affiliate programs and monetizing YT to earn some income. Not sure if being an affiliate is enough to set yourself up as a business though, or how many people who are making peanuts on affiliate marketing are actually going to the trouble of paying for a business license and filing state B&O taxes, etc. Or even declaring that income at all. Deducting expenses for a DT definitely sounds like a dodgy idea to me. A little off topic, but given how much work calculating COGS is for me as a simple cardmaking business I've always wondered how YT cardmakers with affiliate links and DT free product who may also sell some of their cards handle their taxes. I'm wondering if that's why some like Jen.McGuire and Kristie Marcotte don't sell their cards. The accounting would be a nightmare!
|
|
|
Post by lasteve1 on Jul 19, 2020 18:49:26 GMT
Tax attorney here. This is a complicated area that gets audited a lot (not in the craft world, but just in general people trying to turn their hobby into a tax write-off). Generally, you can't do that. You need to actually be engaged in the activity with the intent to earn a profit before you can write off expenses and usually you can't have another day job. There are a lot of factors that are considered to determine whether or not it qualifies as a "for profit" endeavor, but if it's something that people do for fun (e.g. crafts, singing, sports) it's pretty hard to prove that's its your actual business. Bottom line: Writing off scrapbooking supplies to reduce your taxable income? That's a red flag asking to be audited... I assume that some people who get more into DTs and making a name for themselves online may also be signed up with affiliate programs and monetizing YT to earn some income. Not sure if being an affiliate is enough to set yourself up as a business though, or how many people who are making peanuts on affiliate marketing are actually going to the trouble of paying for a business license and filing state B&O taxes, etc. Or even declaring that income at all. Deducting expenses for a DT definitely sounds like a dodgy idea to me. A little off topic, but given how much work calculating COGS is for me as a simple cardmaking business I've always wondered how YT cardmakers with affiliate links and DT free product who may also sell some of their cards handle their taxes. I'm wondering if that's why some like Jen.McGuire and Kristie Marcotte don't sell their cards. The accounting would be a nightmare! I can tell you the right way to do it and the way most people do it are probably not the same. The law requires you to report ALL income, no matter how small, from affiliates, etc. Most people don't report small amounts of money they get paid for side jobs even though they're technically required to (e.g. babysitting money, etc.), but I would imagine a lot of affiliate program, such as Amazon, do actually issue a 1099 to report the income for their affiliates as long as the individual makes over a certain dollar amount from them. The 1099 would allow the business, such as Amazon, to deduct the expense and would put it on the IRS' radar that the person who was paid should report the income. Just because you have income from an activity does not mean it's a legitimate business for tax purposes. Your primary goal in participating in the activity has to be because you are trying to earn income, not because you just happen to get paid for participating in a hobby. So if you knit blankets because you love to and occasionally show at a craft fair and sell a couple of blankets that is not a business for tax purposes. If you open an LLC with the purpose of selling knit blankets, you market your company and spend your time knitting inventory to sell that is a business for tax purposes. As far as writing off expenses, you can only write off expenses (other than cost of goods sold) if they are from a legitimate business. So for example, you scrapbook for fun on the side and spend $3000 a year on scrapbooking supplies. You are on a couple of design teams and end up getting paid $300 for your work on the design teams, but you also have a full-time job which is really your source of income. For tax purposes, you have to report the $300 from DT work and cannot deduct any of the supplies [note: pre-Trump's tax code you were able to deduct supplies to the extent you earned income--it's more complicated than that, but generally--so in that example you would report the $300, deduct $300 (even though you spend $3000) and it would be a wash. Post-Trump tax code, you have to report the $300 and can't deduct anything]. If you get into selling actual products, like physical cards, then--in addition to income taxes--you have to actually get registered for sales tax purposes and collect and pay sales tax. There are a lot of tax barriers to dipping your toes into a business, so to speak, so you either need to plan on going all in and making it your business or doing it as a hobby and expect to pay taxes/not write anything off. This is why I think a lot of people just do a little bit and don't report it--either because they don't know how or they don't know they have to--and often they don't get caught. If you don't report $50 of cash you receive on the side, odds are the IRS isn't going to waste their time on you... if you write off $10,000 you shouldn't have, you're probably going to get caught and billed with interest and penalties. It sounds a little unfair when you look at it that way, but it really isn't--the IRS doesn't have the time or energy to figure out what everyone's really intention is behind doing things. I love scrapbooking and spend some (more than I should) of my hard earned paycheck on scrapbooking supplies. But, like everyone else, I pay taxes on my paycheck. I shouldn't be able to sign up for a design team here and there, make a couple hundred dollars, and write off thousands against my wages so I don't have to pay taxes like everyone else. Everyone spends some of their money on their hobbies... it's only fair if everyone pays taxes on that income.
|
|
|
Post by alyssam on Jul 19, 2020 19:52:09 GMT
I was accepted recently to the DT of a well known shop. The compensation was - I kid you not- a store discount. No product, no free shipping. I would have literally had to buy the product I worked with. This was described as generous compensation. Lol. I declined.
Having said that, when I was on multiple DT's 10 years ago, it seemed like they were way more worth it. I used.to get a TON of products and it was so much fun.
|
|
pancakes
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,002
Feb 4, 2015 6:49:53 GMT
|
Post by pancakes on Jul 19, 2020 20:50:42 GMT
I was accepted recently to the DT of a well known shop. The compensation was - I kid you not- a store discount. No product, no free shipping. I would have literally had to buy the product I worked with. This was described as generous compensation. Lol. I declined. Having said that, when I was on multiple DT's 10 years ago, it seemed like they were way more worth it. I used.to get a TON of products and it was so much fun. What?! I have never heard of a DT not giving you the products to work with!
|
|
fireant
Shy Member
Posts: 30
May 30, 2016 15:37:54 GMT
|
Post by fireant on Jul 19, 2020 21:37:58 GMT
I was accepted recently to the DT of a well known shop. The compensation was - I kid you not- a store discount. No product, no free shipping. I would have literally had to buy the product I worked with. This was described as generous compensation. Lol. I declined. Having said that, when I was on multiple DT's 10 years ago, it seemed like they were way more worth it. I used.to get a TON of products and it was so much fun. Oh man, how insulting. I'm glad you declined.
It's so interesting to me how design teams work. Most other types influencers would never dream of only accepting a product in return for featuring it on their pages. Some of them would even call out a company by name if the ask was obnoxious enough. Is the difference only that crafters are considered hobbyists by and large, so they don't deserve compensation? All that being said, if i ever got to the point that I was asked to be on a design team, I'd probably jump at the chance, just to see what it's like for myself.
|
|
FurryP
Drama Llama
To pea or not to pea...
Posts: 7,274
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 19:58:26 GMT
|
Post by FurryP on Jul 19, 2020 21:39:28 GMT
I was accepted recently to the DT of a well known shop. The compensation was - I kid you not- a store discount. No product, no free shipping. I would have literally had to buy the product I worked with. This was described as generous compensation. Lol. I declined. Having said that, when I was on multiple DT's 10 years ago, it seemed like they were way more worth it. I used.to get a TON of products and it was so much fun. Wow. They really are full of themselves. SMH
|
|
|
Post by scrappyem on Jul 19, 2020 21:42:28 GMT
I was accepted recently to the DT of a well known shop. The compensation was - I kid you not- a store discount. No product, no free shipping. I would have literally had to buy the product I worked with. This was described as generous compensation. Lol. I declined. Having said that, when I was on multiple DT's 10 years ago, it seemed like they were way more worth it. I used.to get a TON of products and it was so much fun. Just wow. That's nuts. I hope everyone tells them no.
|
|
|
Post by joblackford on Jul 19, 2020 21:43:11 GMT
I was accepted recently to the DT of a well known shop. The compensation was - I kid you not- a store discount. No product, no free shipping. I would have literally had to buy the product I worked with. This was described as generous compensation. Lol. I declined. What?! And I'm assuming it wasn't such a good discount that you were even getting things at cost. No way. Good grief. Free DT product, free shipping obvs, AND a store discount could be described as generous compensation perhaps. Wow. I kind of want to know which store that was and who agreed to that terrible deal.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 19, 2024 10:42:29 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2020 3:58:45 GMT
I was accepted recently to the DT of a well known shop. The compensation was - I kid you not- a store discount. No product, no free shipping. I would have literally had to buy the product I worked with. This was described as generous compensation. Lol. I declined. Having said that, when I was on multiple DT's 10 years ago, it seemed like they were way more worth it. I used.to get a TON of products and it was so much fun. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard of on the craft side of the board, in a long time. And lasteve1 - thanks for taking the time to explain business expense deductions - that was nice of you.
|
|
|
Post by alyssam on Jul 20, 2020 13:04:37 GMT
I was accepted recently to the DT of a well known shop. The compensation was - I kid you not- a store discount. No product, no free shipping. I would have literally had to buy the product I worked with. This was described as generous compensation. Lol. I declined. What?! And I'm assuming it wasn't such a good discount that you were even getting things at cost. No way. Good grief. Free DT product, free shipping obvs, AND a store discount could be described as generous compensation perhaps. Wow. I kind of want to know which store that was and who agreed to that terrible deal. Assuming the store marks up the standard 50%, no, it define wasn't enough of a discount to bring down to their cost. Unfortunately, they seem to have gathered a full team with no issues. Even quite a few names I recognized.
|
|
|
Post by melanieg on Jul 20, 2020 23:11:40 GMT
I was on a few DTs in the past and it was always payment in product to work with and a discount for personal shopping. I know that some companies added the perk of CHA attendance for their DTs, but I was never lucky enough for that lol I think the hopes of a lot were to get recognized and picked up for magazines or product developers.
|
|
scrapnnana
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,449
Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
|
Post by scrapnnana on Jul 21, 2020 13:25:05 GMT
I was on a few DTs in the past and it was always payment in product to work with and a discount for personal shopping. I know that some companies added the perk of CHA attendance for their DTs, but I was never lucky enough for that lol I think the hopes of a lot were to get recognized and picked up for magazines or product developers. I used to both teach and work for the LSS nearest my home. One of the other teachers kept trying for the LSS design team, as well as many others. She eventually made the LSS design team, and later, she made the design team of a small company, although I don’t remember which one. It never seemed to be about the money for her, but the recognition, etc. Everyone at the LSS had trouble understanding why it was so important to her, but she apparently hungered for something more than just free products.
|
|