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Post by katiejane on Jul 2, 2014 8:41:50 GMT
Yep, 'just like a girl' is used often as a negative term here in the UK too. I wonder if your daughters shirt is trying to claim the term back and use it positively.
As a non American I can see why the name 'redskins' is controversial for a sports team. I can understand why it is offensive to native americans.
KJ
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Post by I-95 on Jul 2, 2014 8:54:10 GMT
Just curious if you watched the commercial.... because when the told the young girls to 'run like a girl' or hit like a girl' they gave it their all, so they were acting like they really are. When the same question was put to boys and older girls, they all acted out some wimpy, limp wristed parody.
If the commercial was asking people to 'Dance like a black person' and people started shaking their booty or a lame attempt at hip hop, should the black person be offended? Of course they should. It's implying that they have behaviors that are wrong, inappropriate, less.
Can you think of one instance when someone uses the phrase 'like a girl' that they don't mean it as an insult? Our daughters shouldn't be made to feel that their actions are wrong, inappropriate or less. Perhaps if children could process what an adult really meant, when someone said to another adult 'You're behaving like a child', maybe they would be offended, because what you're saying is 'Your behavior is inappropriate' If the child understood that, they would believe the way they acted was inappropriate, wrong, less.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 9:38:26 GMT
I'm surprised that you've never heard it used in a derogatory way. I always thought it was pretty global in it's meaning. It implies that girls/females are the weaker sex. This stereotype of males being macho,stronger and more intelligent and emotionally controlled than girls/women.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 2, 2014 10:56:18 GMT
I don't really understand the term "new trending slur", but it's not new... it's been around forever and it's never been used in a positive way. I was raised by very pro-equality, feminist parents, and while no one ever told me it was an insult, I've always known and felt it was. I agree some of the shirts/phrases are "taking back" the insult, and I think that's a good thing, but just because it's finally made it's way to a national advertisement doesn't make it a new insult. I don't know if I'm right, but I am interpreting "trending slur" to mean that it is being addressed now. Thankfully, some women are pointing out that it isn't ok to say. Not that it will go away any time soon, but hopefully little girls will be empowered to mentally dismiss and disregard people who use that phrase. At least, I hope so.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 12:49:23 GMT
We run differently? We fight differently? We throw differently?
No, we don't.
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Post by Kelpea on Jul 2, 2014 12:56:20 GMT
I find it sad that my darling "girl," now 17, would possibly be affected by the mentality of "just a girl." Thankfully, I believe if she had been part of that interview, she would have run like a madman, since she is pretty confident! And STRONG, both mentally and physically. Heck, she can do a "one man," which is basing a flyer by herself. Additionally she can more than handle herself in social situations with the opposite sex quite well. Going to ask her later what she thinks of the ad, and how she would have responded.
Our society in general does not do enough to empower our daughters. We need to change that.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 2, 2014 12:59:06 GMT
I would be really curious to know how teens react to the ad. Kepler, I am curious to know what your daughter thinks
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Post by rumplesnat on Jul 2, 2014 13:06:13 GMT
I've actually see a change in the tide regarding the "like a girl" phrase that has turned the tables to mean strong vs. weak. Breast cancer awareness campaigns that include the phrase "fight like a girl" immediately pops into my mind, and that in no way suggests weakness.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 13:12:24 GMT
I do have my own story on that phrase. A friend of my 14-year-old son, told a mutual friend that she threw like a girl. Mutual friend replied, "I'm about to kick your ass like a girl".
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Post by justkallie on Jul 2, 2014 13:25:41 GMT
I think in our quest for political correctness, just about everything is offensive these days. Not saying there are not truly offensive statements and feelings, but some things just have me shaking my head.
To me - just like a congressman would be an insult. I guess I am far too comfortable in my own skin for just like a girl to be an insult.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 13:42:48 GMT
I think in our quest for political correctness, just about everything is offensive these days. Not saying there are not truly offensive statements and feelings, but some things just have me shaking my head. To me - just like a congressman would be an insult. I guess I am far too comfortable in my own skin for just like a girl to be an insult. 'Like a girl' is offensive because it is intended to offend. It has never NOT been an insult. Personally, I don't think accepting it is a matter of being comfortable in your own skin. Quite the opposite, actually.
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Post by justkallie on Jul 2, 2014 13:49:28 GMT
I think in our quest for political correctness, just about everything is offensive these days. Not saying there are not truly offensive statements and feelings, but some things just have me shaking my head. To me - just like a congressman would be an insult. I guess I am far too comfortable in my own skin for just like a girl to be an insult. 'Like a girl' is offensive because it is intended to offend. It has never NOT been an insult. Personally, I don't think accepting it is a matter of being comfortable in your own skin. Quite the opposite, actually. To you. Not to me. To each their own. I was brought up being told by my father I was better than a boy - so to me, like a girl was way better than like a boy.
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Post by apeacalledliz on Jul 2, 2014 13:52:08 GMT
'Like a girl' is offensive because it is used when someone does something poorly... "that throw was awful, you throw like a girl!" snicker snicker. It's not a political correctness issue, it's a girls are not less than issue. When you equate doing something poorly with doing it 'like a girl' it most certainly is offensive to girls and women and I think that you are being obtuse for political reasons if you refuse to see that.
My daughter has a poster that says I jump like a girl I run like a girl I swing like a girl I tumble 6ft over a 4inch beam LIKE A GIRL
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 13:57:49 GMT
'Like a girl' is offensive because it is intended to offend. It has never NOT been an insult. Personally, I don't think accepting it is a matter of being comfortable in your own skin. Quite the opposite, actually. To you. Not to me. To each their own. I was brought up being told by my father I was better than a boy - so to me, like a girl was way better than like a boy. My parents raised me as an equal to boys. But I also grew up in the real world where 'like a girl' was never used as a compliment. It seems like the people in the video grew up in that world too.
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Post by shevy on Jul 2, 2014 14:02:00 GMT
'Like a girl' is offensive because it is used when someone does something poorly... "that throw was awful, you throw like a girl!" snicker snicker. It's not a political correctness issue, it's a girls are not less than issue. When you equate doing something poorly with doing it 'like a girl' it most certainly is offensive to girls and women and I think that you are being obtuse for political reasons if you refuse to see that. This.
I don't necessarily think that it's a political correctness thing as much as it is that we need to think about how we portray things to young people. More and more, those kids who are bullied are saying that even though it's just WORDS on a page, they're powerful words. It makes me thing about sayings and topics when I'm around kids and teens. Things that I heard as a kid and didn't register with me, may register different with kids now, because of a generational disconnect.
For instance, my niece is 12 and she spends about 1-2 days a month hanging out with my husband and I. We take her to the gym with us because it's part of our life. But she started calling herself fat and asked why mu husband sees himself as fat when he's skinny and weighs about 165. It made me think that my self image was negatively impacted when I was a teen by hearing those fat statements, why would I continue that cycle. My husband and I had a conversation about how we can chose words and statements that are empowering, rather than negative.
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Post by katieanna on Jul 2, 2014 14:03:24 GMT
Did you actually pay attention to the video? It starts by asking preteen/teen girls to show what running/throwing/hitting "like a girl" looks like and they all do it foolishly and basically mocking themselves and their abilities. Our society consistently tells us that doing something "like a girl" means doing it poorly/wrong, and by tween/teen years, our girls have bought into that. Then they asked younger girls, too young to have sucked up all that cultural baggage, to do the same things "like a girl" and they just go for it and do their best. They don't yet know what our society thinks doing something "like a girl" means. It's so sad that in the span of just a few years, girls so often go from being brave and strong and believing they can do anything to thinking just the opposite - that they are inherently limited because they are female. They get this message about things like math, science, and technology too - not just physical activities. When I first saw this thread, I thought "like a girl" is something positive! Unfortunately, we seem prone to let others influence how we see things. I think adolescents are especially vulnerable to this peer pressure.
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Post by katieanna on Jul 2, 2014 14:13:57 GMT
Maybe I ought to clarify since reading more responses: I've seen big changes in how women are viewed over the past several decades and it has been an overall, positive change. Many women have risen through the ranks and have become well-qualified, successful CEOs, doctors, lawyers, etc. Remember the song "I Am Woman" - when I saw the title "Just Like a Girl" I viewed it more in that vein than in someone implying that the person is weak, a sissy, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 14:19:42 GMT
When I first saw this thread, I thought "like a girl" is something positive! Unfortunately, we seem prone to let others influence how we see things. I think adolescents are especially vulnerable to this peer pressure. That. A female child has not developed as much as an adult male or even an adult female. It's not an insult, it just is. To say that a female child is right where she's supposed to be developmentally is not an insult to her. To say that an adult male has only developed as far as a female child is an insult to him, not the female child. There's a reason the younger girls see it for what it is and a reason that the t-shirt says what it says.
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Post by justkallie on Jul 2, 2014 14:23:11 GMT
To you. Not to me. To each their own. I was brought up being told by my father I was better than a boy - so to me, like a girl was way better than like a boy. My parents raised me as an equal to boys. But I also grew up in the real world where 'like a girl' was never used as a compliment. It seems like the people in the video grew up in that world too. So I grew up in Oz? Never-Neverland? Narnia? Seriously, insults in an insult thread. Got to love it!
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 14:26:53 GMT
My parents raised me as an equal to boys. But I also grew up in the real world where 'like a girl' was never used as a compliment. It seems like the people in the video grew up in that world too. So I grew up in Oz? Never-Neverland? Narnia? Seriously, insults in an insult thread. Got to love it! How is that an insult? I think that the fact that you don't see 'like a girl' as a negative is fantastic. Exactly how it should be. Exactly what we need to be teaching the people who are actually using it. Because, whether or not you see it as a negative, that's its intended use.
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Post by pastlifepea on Jul 2, 2014 14:33:13 GMT
I've actually see a change in the tide regarding the "like a girl" phrase that has turned the tables to mean strong vs. weak. Breast cancer awareness campaigns that include the phrase "fight like a girl" immediately pops into my mind, and that in no way suggests weakness. This was exactly what came to my mind as well!
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Post by justkallie on Jul 2, 2014 14:33:50 GMT
So I grew up in Oz? Never-Neverland? Narnia? Seriously, insults in an insult thread. Got to love it! How is that an insult? I think that the fact that you don't see 'like a girl' as a negative is fantastic. Exactly how it should be. Exactly what we need to be teaching the people who are actually using it. Because, whether or not you see it as a negative, that's its intended use. Passive aggressiveness to boot. Awesome. Look, I have a different perspective than you shaped by my life experiences. I don't have to agree with you, and that doesn't make me wrong. It makes me different.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 14:37:25 GMT
How is that an insult? I think that the fact that you don't see 'like a girl' as a negative is fantastic. Exactly how it should be. Exactly what we need to be teaching the people who are actually using it. Because, whether or not you see it as a negative, that's its intended use. Passive aggressiveness to boot. Awesome. Look, I have a different perspective than you shaped by my life experiences. I don't have to agree with you, and that doesn't make me wrong. It makes me different. You are seriously reading more into my post than was intended - I don't do passive agressive.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 14:58:38 GMT
When I first saw this thread, I thought "like a girl" is something positive! Unfortunately, we seem prone to let others influence how we see things. I think adolescents are especially vulnerable to this peer pressure. That. A female child has not developed as much as an adult male or even an adult female. It's not an insult, it just is. To say that a female child is right where she's supposed to be developmentally is not an insult to her. To say that an adult male has only developed as far as a female child is an insult to him, not the female child. You are reaching. If it's all about developmental appropriateness, why is "like a boy" never used as an insult?
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Post by shevy on Jul 2, 2014 15:02:48 GMT
Passive aggressiveness to boot. Awesome. Look, I have a different perspective than you shaped by my life experiences. I don't have to agree with you, and that doesn't make me wrong. It makes me different. You are seriously reading more into my post than was intended - I don't do passive agressive. I was gonna say that Dalai is the most non passive aggressive Pea ever. but you beat me to it.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 15:04:37 GMT
You are seriously reading more into my post than was intended - I don't do passive agressive. I was gonna say that Dalai is the most non passive aggressive Pea ever. but you beat me to it. Nope, nothing passive about my aggression.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 15:09:04 GMT
That. A female child has not developed as much as an adult male or even an adult female. It's not an insult, it just is. To say that a female child is right where she's supposed to be developmentally is not an insult to her. To say that an adult male has only developed as far as a female child is an insult to him, not the female child. You are reaching. If it's all about developmental appropriateness, why is "like a boy" never used as an insult? I'm not the one reaching.
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Dalai Mama
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 15:12:15 GMT
I don't think you can reasonably say that when someone says to another man (or boy, or girl) that they throw like a girl that they are talking about the developmental appropriateness of his throw.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2014 15:24:00 GMT
I think that's exactly what it means. What do you think it means?
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jul 2, 2014 15:27:56 GMT
I think that's exactly what it means. What do you think it means? I think it means exactly what was shown in the video - a stereotype with very little basis in reality used to insult.
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