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Post by pjaye on Aug 2, 2020 17:24:55 GMT
However, I would be vehemently opposed to restricting movement using police force. Even in the best of circumstances. Our police aren't restricting movement - our state government is, the police are just there to enforce it. They've already been doing similar things for quite some time - border enforcing border shutdowns, door knocking to check if covid +ve people are at home, issuing fines for those not complying with previous lockdown laws and those not wearing asks in public. I’m just curious, who decides what the restrictions are and when they end? Our Prime Minister has mostly let each state make it's own decisions with regards to this. Our state (Victoria) are having the biggest second wave, so we are the ones with the most rules and restrictions in the whole country right now. And they still believe this is all rooted in the actions of the security guards at the quarantine hotel? I haven't heard any differently - although there is going to be a formal inquest into this, so at some stage we'll know more. pjaye I'm thankful for you in Australia that your numbers have been so low until you have tests available Yes, the testing has helped us see the real picture, right from the start tests were fairly easy to get for anyone who had symptoms and then they moved to testing asymptomatic people as well. So far they've done around 1.5 million tests for a population of 6.3 million. Testing is free as well.
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Post by jubejubes on Aug 2, 2020 17:33:00 GMT
Could you wear a plastic face shield? There are several people who wear the face shield and it works quite effectively. Face sheilds have been demonstrated to be ineffective. They may not be as effective as a mask, however it is better than anything. Perhaps wearing a mask under the face shield when being in direct contact with people and just using the face shield when alone & working in the office or walking down the street. Anything is better than nothing. Many medical staff wear face shields, so there must be some sort of effectiveness there. Spray the face shield with Lysol ever hour or so.
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Aug 2, 2020 17:48:04 GMT
Masks are distressing my breathing badly. I'm getting through far too much of my blue inhaler because of them, and my chest is so tight, but it has to be done. This isn't about me, it's about everybody else. Thank you so much for wearing your mask even though it's very uncomfortable for you. My DIL is nine months pregnant and we've had terrible heat & humidity here, and a mask has been very uncomfortable for her to wear, as well. You folks who carry on and wear a mask for those around you, even though you would have legitimate reasons to go maskless, are especially wonderful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, because you are protecting people like my very pregnant DIL who, any day now, will be having the first girl in my husband's family in over 65 years!
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Post by malibou on Aug 2, 2020 18:28:03 GMT
TheOtherMeg what fun news. Your Dh family just be elated. I can only imagine all of those females on his side buying all the cute girl things and knitting and crocheting headbands, booties, cardigans, blankets in all colour way and style that screams girl! Congratulaions!
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TheOtherMeg
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,541
Jun 25, 2014 20:58:14 GMT
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Post by TheOtherMeg on Aug 2, 2020 18:51:23 GMT
Thank you! Yes, everyone is so excited! The last girl born was my DH's older sister, and she's in her mid-60s. His siblings chose Aunt-/Uncle-hood to parenthood (at which they all excel!), and DH & I had four boys. The now-pregnant DIL gave us our first grandchild, a boy, three years ago. So, LOTS of boys! Now we get a granddaughter!
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Gravity
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,229
Jun 27, 2014 0:29:55 GMT
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Post by Gravity on Aug 2, 2020 18:57:48 GMT
Face sheilds have been demonstrated to be ineffective. They may not be as effective as a mask, however it is better than anything. Perhaps wearing a mask under the face shield when being in direct contact with people and just using the face shield when alone & working in the office or walking down the street. Anything is better than nothing. Many medical staff wear face shields, so there must be some sort of effectiveness there. Spray the face shield with Lysol ever hour or so. As a Registered Nurse, I am required by the hospital where I work to wear a mask, googles, and a face shield when in contact with any patient. The face shield is merely an added layer of protection. I would never count on it as my only protection.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 20:36:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2020 20:05:17 GMT
So sorry. Wishing you a quick return to semi-normalcy.
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finaledition
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,896
Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
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Post by finaledition on Aug 2, 2020 20:07:11 GMT
I would have no problem with those rules being imposed in my community at this time.
I think only a bold move can prevent the numbers from being catastrophic. (And prevent the morons from pretending this isn’t a problem).
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,729
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Aug 2, 2020 21:20:12 GMT
Masks are distressing my breathing badly. I'm getting through far too much of my blue inhaler because of them, and my chest is so tight, but it has to be done. This isn't about me, it's about everybody else. Thank you so much for wearing your mask even though it's very uncomfortable for you. My DIL is nine months pregnant and we've had terrible heat & humidity here, and a mask has been very uncomfortable for her to wear, as well. You folks who carry on and wear a mask for those around you, even though you would have legitimate reasons to go maskless, are especially wonderful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, because you are protecting people like my very pregnant DIL who, any day now, will be having the first girl in my husband's family in over 65 years! How exciting!
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,729
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Aug 2, 2020 21:24:39 GMT
In March, yes. We have identified 2 different problems that were each making the other worse - no wonder the doctors weren't getting to the bottom of it. But I had my first face-to-face appointment last week, with the respiratory nurse. The doctors had said I could stop the steroid inhaler without weaning but I tried twice and got into trouble. The nurse, far from stopping it, diagnosed me with asthma and increased the dose. I've felt so much better since, although I'm still having good days and not so good days. If the increase helped, which it has, she wants to move me to a combined steroid/long acting bronchodilator. I'm just so thankful we're getting somewhere! Thank you, sweet pea! Could you wear a plastic face shield? There are several people who wear the face shield and it works quite effectively. I work in a doctors' surgery. The NHS advice is surgical masks so that's what we wear. We do have face shields with masks as part of PPE, but not by themselves. Thankfully it's not all day every day, just whenever we step outside our "bubble", which can be every few minutes or not for half an hour or so. Hopefully the new inhaler will make things easier, but meanwhile I'm managing. I'm OK.
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Post by ~summer~ on Aug 2, 2020 21:35:36 GMT
Oh wow!! Stay safe
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2020 22:33:23 GMT
So when will the guys armed with semi-automatic weapons show up at your government buildings to protest? Or is that just here.... Just here, they actually took action with a mass shooting
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Post by peasapie on Aug 2, 2020 22:45:07 GMT
This sounds like what we had here in the NY/NJ/CT area (east coast) of U.S.
Most people I know of were grateful to be alive and very respectful of the restrictions. (And it absolutely worked.) Some people were jackasses and complained loudly about their rights being infringed upon. Meanwhile, my kid was in a hospital with just a paper mask at that point, working to save peoples' lives and risking her own and her family's. How selfish is this generation that they can't just join together and keep their mouths shut for a short time for the welfare of all.
It won't last forever, but it will SEEM like it.
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Post by maryland on Aug 2, 2020 23:07:31 GMT
Masks are distressing my breathing badly. I'm getting through far too much of my blue inhaler because of them, and my chest is so tight, but it has to be done. This isn't about me, it's about everybody else. Thank you so much for wearing your mask even though it's very uncomfortable for you. My DIL is nine months pregnant and we've had terrible heat & humidity here, and a mask has been very uncomfortable for her to wear, as well. You folks who carry on and wear a mask for those around you, even though you would have legitimate reasons to go maskless, are especially wonderful. Thank you from the bottom of my heart, because you are protecting people like my very pregnant DIL who, any day now, will be having the first girl in my husband's family in over 65 years! My husband's grandmother had all great granddaughters, and finally got a great grandson! Everyone was so excited and bought lots of little boy gifts and outfits for him!
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Post by AussieMeg on Aug 2, 2020 23:23:25 GMT
I thought of you last night pjaye . I was doing my normal Sunday grocery shop and ran into a friend who is a nurse. She is doing so many extra shifts at the moment, because a lot of nurses and doctors are sick or having to stay home while waiting for test results. Stay safe! I honestly feel if we hit it that headstrong we could win this fight. But Americans would NEVER agree to that. I hope it works for you all. And then keep your borders closed so no idiots can bring it in.Ha, but in this case WE are the idiots, and the borders are closed so WE can't infect the rest of the country! None of the other states are letting any Victorians in, but some states are letting people from other states in. I think that WA has completely closed its borders to everyone unless exempt. I have to say I've been quite impressed with Dan & his leadership. Me too. I am happy that he has finally made the call to go to stage 4. I hope that this works to get the numbers back down to what they were before the second wave hit. I'd like to see it completely eradicated, but that's not going to happen in 6 weeks. I hope that there are massive fines to anyone who has tested positive and are found to be not at home when they're supposed to be quarantining. And likewise to anyone breaking the curfew. There will be further announcements today about who will be allowed to work and who won't. I'm worried that this time DSO will be told he isn't allowed to work. He works mostly for himself, so we will be financially impacted in a big way. Oh well, I guess the school won't be getting their fees for a while if that happens! (They should be offering a reduction anyway, seeing that we're going back to homeschooling.)
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Post by chances on Aug 2, 2020 23:36:31 GMT
Our police aren't restricting movement - our state government is, the police are just there to enforce it. They've already been doing similar things for quite some time - border enforcing border shutdowns, door knocking to check if covid +ve people are at home, issuing fines for those not I would have no problem with those rules being imposed in my community at this time. I think only a bold move can prevent the numbers from being catastrophic. (And prevent the morons from pretending this isn’t a problem). This sounds like what we had here in the NY/NJ/CT area (east coast) of U.S. Most people I know of were grateful to be alive and very respectful of the restrictions. (And it absolutely worked.) Some people were jackasses and complained loudly about their rights being infringed upon. Meanwhile, my kid was in a hospital with just a paper mask at that point, working to save peoples' lives and risking her own and her family's. How selfish is this generation that they can't just join together and keep their mouths shut for a short time for the welfare of all. It won't last forever, but it will SEEM like it. There are a lot of policies being discussed here, so please correct me if Im wrong, but it seems like people approve of all of the measures including movement restrictions. I’m not saying it’s never warranted but it should be very rare and subject to multiple checks. Here it sounds like police have authority to stop anyone they think looks suspicious (i.e. X number of kilometers from home) in order to fine them. These types of policies never end well for minority groups. Historically these things also tend to escalate. What’s to stop the state from detaining people who have “too many fines” or may be ill. It’s not happening where I live so I’m not arguing about an Australian policy. I am alarmed by Americans support police intervention in this way. Stop and frisk allowed police to stop ppl who looked like they might have drugs, SB 1070 to stop people who looked like they might be in the US illegally. Unsurprisingly these measures targeted Black and Brown people. I live in Jersey now and no police were knocking at my door or asking me where I live.
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Post by christine58 on Aug 2, 2020 23:44:18 GMT
This sounds like what we had here in the NY/NJ/CT area (east coast) of U.S. Except we never had these rules in NY.. -people are only allowed to go within 5km of their home -only one person allowed to do essential shopping once per day
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Post by pjaye on Aug 3, 2020 3:15:55 GMT
Here it sounds like police have authority to stop anyone they think looks suspicious (i.e. X number of kilometers from home) in order to fine them. These types of policies never end well for minority groups. Historically these things also tend to escalate. What’s to stop the state from detaining people who have “too many fines” or may be ill. You have to remember though that culturally it is very different in Australia to the USA. Our citizens do not carry guns and police shooting and violence are not common. There are some stats hereYou can see in Vic for 2008-2011 (3 years), we only had two people shot by police and 14 in total for all of Australia. So it's not the same level of fear that many parts of the USA experience. I'd say that unless you have a gun yourself and you are in the middle of committing a crime, then the fear that you could be shot by police here is close to zero...no matter what shade your skin is is. I work nights and walk to work, so I fully expect to be stopped at some stage, but it won't worry me (hopefully they'll feel sorry for me and drive me the rest of the way...lol). But the bigger issue is, unless you have to be out to go to work or to go or care for someone...just stay at home! Nothing will be open and there will be nowhere to go anyway. If you aren't out there, then you won't be talking to the police! I agree though that with the current climate in the USA, this would not likely be the best way to manage the situation where you are given the recent (& historical) issues with police & the black community.
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tanya2
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1604
Posts: 4,422
Jun 27, 2014 2:27:09 GMT
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Post by tanya2 on Aug 3, 2020 3:23:12 GMT
I would have no problem with those rules being enforced here either if we had another outbreak in this area (thankfully our numbers have been staying pretty low!) - but I could not agree to the staying within 5km of my house, because I live in the country & wouldn't be able to buy food! My closest grocery store is 15 kms away
my dd's boyfriend lives outside of Melbourne and she was supposed to be going there from May-Sept this year. When that fell through she started planning for a late fall visit, but now they are afraid that won't happen either. She would take a direct flight from Canada so no going thru the US airports. He was supposed to come here for Christmas too but that seems unlikely also
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Post by pjaye on Aug 3, 2020 3:27:05 GMT
I haven't been outside today, so no idea what it looks like out there... BUT I was just having a text chat with 3 friends (none of them are nurses except for me) as we all live within a 5km radius, one suggested we meet at the park on Sat and walk two by two and then switch 'partners' and walk with one of the others. What the ever lovin' f###? We are allowed to walk in pairs primarily for safety...and mostly for the sake of women. No-one is going to tell women they have to walk/exercise alone so that every pervert knows there are easy targets out there. That's the ONLY reason - it isn't because it's nice to have a buddy to chat to on our walks Seriously, finding new & creative ways to flaunt the rules is really pissing me off now. I typed out a long reply to my friends and then deleted & replaced it with "no, I won't be doing that - count me out"
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Post by pjaye on Aug 3, 2020 3:33:39 GMT
My closest grocery store is 15 kms away In the areas affected by the lockdown, this isn't an issue as everyone would have something close enough, and at this stage regional areas are not a part of these restrictions. But they will always make exceptions for buying groceries anyway. What they want to stop is people travelling 30km to go to Costco, or 50km to get a take out curry from their favourite curry place (yes that happened last week - that curry ended up costing him $1650 in fines). No-one will get fined if their grocery store is 7km away - the point is they want people to say local, shop in their own community and not be driving all over town each day.
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Aug 3, 2020 6:32:40 GMT
And they still believe this is all rooted in the actions of the security guards at the quarantine hotel? I’ve been following the Australian cases in the news... shocking. And illlustrares how important distancing and isolation really are in keeping this disease under control! I hope you’re doing ok... I can’t imagine the burden health care providers are facing. CNN just blamed the security guards.
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AllieC
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,052
Jul 4, 2014 6:57:02 GMT
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Post by AllieC on Aug 3, 2020 6:51:07 GMT
pjaye that would have pissed me off too. So many people trying to get around the rules and that is why we are in this shitshow. Often these same people will be sitting there blaming everyone else for the spread.
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Post by pjaye on Aug 3, 2020 7:00:59 GMT
pjaye that would have pissed me off too. So many people trying to get around the rules and that is why we are in this shitshow Exactly. I was really surprised by the suggestion. I already suspected one of my friends has been doing far more than she should (including two visit to her boyfriend in NSW) that she just doesn't tell me about but that the other two were on board so fast was a surprise. People need to. OK you might be allowed to walk with one other person...that doesn't mean you meet up with a different friend each day to walk with for an hour each time. It's that sort of thing that keeps us in this covid shit show for even longer.
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Aug 3, 2020 7:02:35 GMT
I saw the news of your lockdown and thought of our Aussie peas. Stay safe and hopefully this action brings the numbers right down.
I know the security guards are in the spotlight but will there be consequences for the returning travellers, their lack of self control is the starting point?
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Orangutan
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Location: Australia
Dec 21, 2019 6:03:37 GMT
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Post by Orangutan on Aug 3, 2020 7:04:17 GMT
I'm happy that Daniel Andrews has made the decision to go to stage 4. Hopefully it allow them to get on top of this. Stay safe VIC peas.
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Post by pjaye on Aug 3, 2020 7:13:52 GMT
I know the security guards are in the spotlight but will there be consequences for the returning travellers, their lack of self control is the starting point There is a difference, they weren't at work and they weren't getting PAID to make sure people stayed inside their rooms in hotels. Not only did the security guards have sex with people, they took them out on shopping trips and allowed them to go into each other's rooms. Think about it this way...I'm a nurse, if I have sex with a patient who is infectious with some disease, do you think that patient should be held to the same standard as me?
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wellway
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,759
Jun 25, 2014 20:50:09 GMT
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Post by wellway on Aug 3, 2020 8:26:48 GMT
I don't expect them to have the same consequences but it would be nice to know that there was at least some regret given their actions have affected and inconvenienced so many people.
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Post by rahnee on Aug 3, 2020 21:58:29 GMT
I'm another happy with how Dan has handled things. It's a very difficult decision to make with the bigger picture in mind, and not something he has taken lightly. The hardline needed to be taken to have a serious impact. I wish it had gone a bit further to be honest. My DH is still working. We had expected they would have to close. I do have concerns with that. He works in Dandenong which is 45minutes away. We live on the Mornington Peninsula. Other employees travel from Craigieburn on the other side of the city as well as Pakenham, Narre Warren and Bayside suburbs. This is a huge spread of area. All it takes is one positive for the spread to be far reaching. My kids are also still working. They are happy about this as it gives them something to do outside of school. We are about 8km from our closest supermarket, outside the 5km rule, but are still allowed to shop in our closest supermarket.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Aug 3, 2020 22:00:07 GMT
wow! stay safe and healthy, you guys!
(and I know it's no real comparison between the two countries, but boy, I almost wish something like that could be put into effect here in the US. is that horrible?) (I live in Arizona, to give some context for my reply.)
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