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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Aug 2, 2020 20:34:11 GMT
28th year. Assoc. Pres. Going back f2f 5 days a week. Masks 4-12. We start in about 2 weeks. luckyjune Thanks for starting this. I just want to send you a HUGE hug because I've been assoc pres for like five hot minutes and I'm drowning. I can't imagine what you're going through with a schedule like that. SO MANY HUGS. DISTANT THO, VIRTUAL HUGS AND MASKS ON. This is year 4, I think. Quite the year to be pres. I probably could have stepped down, but I really enjoy it during a normal year. This is just a mess to deal with. We are just going to have to suck it up and deal with it. My hands are tied at the moment and it's frustrating.
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Post by Merge on Aug 2, 2020 20:38:50 GMT
Fully virtual with staff on site. Masks required for all staff unless they are in their rooms/offices with DOORS CLOSED. They are looking at opening all entrances so staff aren’t all coming in one entrance too. I don’t have one complaint. This is the way to do it. What is their rationale for keeping staff on site? Are they making provisions for teachers with young kids?
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Post by christine58 on Aug 2, 2020 20:51:25 GMT
28th year. Assoc. Pres. Going back f2f 5 days a week. Masks 4-12. We start in about 2 weeks. luckyjune Thanks for starting this. I just want to send you a HUGE hug because I've been assoc pres for like five hot minutes and I'm drowning. I can't imagine what you're going through with a schedule like that. SO MANY HUGS. DISTANT THO, VIRTUAL HUGS AND MASKS ON. I was our Union president for 10 years....was involved for over 20...retired in 2017 as a Special ed teacher. Our districts are doing a variety of options. BUT if you are a career and tech student (ex..cosmetology, culinary arts, animal science, auto tech etc) you go two full days. Either M/T or Thurs/Friday depending on the home district. (The 'district' I worked for covers 22 districts). However, if you are in alternative ed or 6:1+1 special ed class, you are in school every day all day. Those classes are small and the kids can be 6 feet apart. I am retired but am here to support all of you. I am glad I am not teaching.
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Post by christine58 on Aug 2, 2020 20:53:44 GMT
Fully virtual with staff on site. Masks required for all staff unless they are in their rooms/offices with DOORS CLOSED. They are looking at opening all entrances so staff aren’t all coming in one entrance too. I don’t have one complaint. This is the way to do it. What is their rationale for keeping staff on site? Are they making provisions for teachers with young kids? All school here staff HAVE to be on site regardless of virtual or hybrid. They will use google classroom etc from their rooms. No rationale other than it might help with some of the "slackers" and we have all worked with them at some point.
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luckyjune
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,685
Location: In the rainy, rainy WA
Jul 22, 2017 4:59:41 GMT
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Post by luckyjune on Aug 2, 2020 20:56:16 GMT
Those of you who are association presidents, are you teaching full time AND presiding? Our association president has a full-time release and has since I started in the district 28 years ago. I can't imagine trying to do both, simultaneously! I hope you are released!!!
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Post by crafty on Aug 2, 2020 21:00:19 GMT
Fully virtual with staff on site. Masks required for all staff unless they are in their rooms/offices with DOORS CLOSED. They are looking at opening all entrances so staff aren’t all coming in one entrance too. I don’t have one complaint. This is the way to do it. What is their rationale for keeping staff on site? Are they making provisions for teachers with young kids? Good luck to all the teacher peas. I have some good friends that are teachers and they say it’s all political. So many parents are criticizing teachers as just not wanting to go back to work. This loud group of parents are saying that taxes should be cut and teachers shouldn’t be paid since now parents have to homeschool. There seems to be some confusing between homeschooling (planning and seeking out the needed materials) and supporting their child-you know, parenting- while teachers do the instruction.
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Aug 2, 2020 21:01:15 GMT
Those of you who are association presidents, are you teaching full time AND presiding? Our association president has a full-time release and has since I started in the district 28 years ago. I can't imagine trying to do both, simultaneously! I hope you are released!!! I teach. We are a small district.
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TankTop
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1,871
Posts: 4,767
Location: On the couch...
Jun 28, 2014 1:52:46 GMT
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Post by TankTop on Aug 2, 2020 21:17:30 GMT
Year 19, starting tomorrow. Kids return face to face on Wednesday.
After 18 years of bouncing back and forth between 4th and 5th, I am moving down to 2nd grade. I can’t wait!
I am ready for a new challenge and little kiddos now that my own are 15 and 20.
I love every single moment of teaching. I was made for this, but I don’t want to die at school.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2020 21:30:45 GMT
Those of you who are association presidents, are you teaching full time AND presiding? Our association president has a full-time release and has since I started in the district 28 years ago. I can't imagine trying to do both, simultaneously! I hope you are released!!! i am not a release president, so I teach and do most everything the full release presidents do
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2020 21:32:51 GMT
Fully virtual with staff on site. Masks required for all staff unless they are in their rooms/offices with DOORS CLOSED. They are looking at opening all entrances so staff aren’t all coming in one entrance too. I don’t have one complaint. This is the way to do it. What is their rationale for keeping staff on site? Are they making provisions for teachers with young kids? isn't that the dilemma all working parents are facing if school is virtual? I think it would be worse to be at school teaching with young kids as you would have to be entertaining them
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Post by crafty on Aug 2, 2020 21:38:09 GMT
What is their rationale for keeping staff on site? Are they making provisions for teachers with young kids? isn't that the dilemma all working parents are facing if school is virtual? I think it would be worse to be at school teaching with young kids as you would have to be entertaining them Yes. And employers are being asked to make provisions but that same courtesy isn’t being extended to teachers. I know the company my husband works for is allowing people to continue to work for home for safety and because school isn’t returning. Imagine how short supply needed daycare spots will be once teachers place their children in care. While the business of education is essential, having teacher’s in the building isn’t.
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Post by christine58 on Aug 2, 2020 21:43:37 GMT
Those of you who are association presidents, are you teaching full time AND presiding? Our association president has a full-time release and has since I started in the district 28 years ago. I can't imagine trying to do both, simultaneously! I hope you are released!!! I had contractual 'release' time to take care of issues as they arose.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2020 21:45:47 GMT
Those of you who are association presidents, are you teaching full time AND presiding? Our association president has a full-time release and has since I started in the district 28 years ago. I can't imagine trying to do both, simultaneously! I hope you are released!!! Our district association president has 3 release periods. That person has to teach 2 classes. Building association presidents do not get release; I'm full time.
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Post by Merge on Aug 2, 2020 22:06:23 GMT
What is their rationale for keeping staff on site? Are they making provisions for teachers with young kids? isn't that the dilemma all working parents are facing if school is virtual? I think it would be worse to be at school teaching with young kids as you would have to be entertaining them That's the thing. At home they at least have their stuff. I can't imagine trying to keep young kids entertained in my classroom all day, every day. And if we're saying it's not safe for kids to be in our classrooms, I can't imagine why the district then says it's safe for teachers to send their kids to day care. Personally, I'd be angry if they made us come in and work from our classrooms. It implies that teachers can't be trusted to do their jobs without someone physically standing over their shoulders. I would think admin could tell from your work product if you aren't doing your job - ours have our teaching schedule and will "drop in" on Zoom calls, look through assignments/materials posted online, etc. I don't need to be in a classroom for them to do that. But I feel the same way about old-fashioned offices where warming a seat for more than 8 hours is considered better evidence of a good work ethic than the actual work produced. If you can do your job from home, you should be able to do that. And other people can get over it.
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Post by Merge on Aug 2, 2020 22:07:58 GMT
isn't that the dilemma all working parents are facing if school is virtual? I think it would be worse to be at school teaching with young kids as you would have to be entertaining them Yes. And employers are being asked to make provisions but that same courtesy isn’t being extended to teachers. I know the company my husband works for is allowing people to continue to work for home for safety and because school isn’t returning. Imagine how short supply needed daycare spots will be once teachers place their children in care. While the business of education is essential, having teacher’s in the building isn’t. 100% agree. We have that group here. They are welcome to take several seats. The ones complaining the loudest are a group of wealthy stay at home moms (or professional moms) with ample means to hire a nanny/sitter/tutor as needed. They just want to go back to hot yoga and fancy lunch unimpeded.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2020 22:10:27 GMT
isn't that the dilemma all working parents are facing if school is virtual? I think it would be worse to be at school teaching with young kids as you would have to be entertaining them That's the thing. At home they at least have their stuff. I can't imagine trying to keep young kids entertained in my classroom all day, every day. And if we're saying it's not safe for kids to be in our classrooms, I can't imagine why the district then says it's safe for teachers to send their kids to day care. Personally, I'd be angry if they made us come in and work from our classrooms. It implies that teachers can't be trusted to do their jobs without someone physically standing over their shoulders. I would think admin could tell from your work product if you aren't doing your job - ours have our teaching schedule and will "drop in" on Zoom calls, look through assignments/materials posted online, etc. I don't need to be in a classroom for them to do that. But I feel the same way about old-fashioned offices where warming a seat for more than 8 hours is considered better evidence of a good work ethic than the actual work produced. If you can do your job from home, you should be able to do that. And other people can get over it. We will have remote time every Wednesday according to the current schedule, and we have fought as a union for teacher to be able to CHOOSE to come in or work from home; some people can't work from home due to other distractions, or because they want access to materials to do demos (science) or because their child's daycare is closer to school than home, so this was important to us. Others want to work from home to minimize exposure, be home for family members, etc.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2020 22:11:51 GMT
isn't that the dilemma all working parents are facing if school is virtual? I think it would be worse to be at school teaching with young kids as you would have to be entertaining them But I feel the same way about old-fashioned offices where warming a seat for more than 8 hours is considered better evidence of a good work ethic than the actual work produced. If you can do your job from home, you should be able to do that. And other people can get over it. Agreed. If an admin/boss can't figure out if someone is effective except that they're in a chair in a building, they're not doing THEIR job as a boss. PERIOD.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2020 22:14:15 GMT
isn't that the dilemma all working parents are facing if school is virtual? I think it would be worse to be at school teaching with young kids as you would have to be entertaining them Yes. And employers are being asked to make provisions but that same courtesy isn’t being extended to teachers. I know the company my husband works for is allowing people to continue to work for home for safety and because school isn’t returning. Imagine how short supply needed daycare spots will be once teachers place their children in care. While the business of education is essential, having teacher’s in the building isn’t. there are also people having to quit their jobs because schools aren't open and they can't afford/find daycare and they can't take their kid with them I was more commenting on having to entertain the kid in the building rather than at home, but honestly this is a dilemma a lot of people are facing. If i am required to teach live I could not do so if I had to also tend to a toddler
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Post by shamrockpea on Aug 2, 2020 22:14:15 GMT
14th year Math Teacher and going into 2nd year as MS Assistant Principal. We are all so concerned about our staff, students and families.
How do you respond to people telling you that schools should open because teachers are no better than cashiers and medical professionals who work in industries that are currently open?
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Post by Merge on Aug 2, 2020 22:17:32 GMT
That's the thing. At home they at least have their stuff. I can't imagine trying to keep young kids entertained in my classroom all day, every day. And if we're saying it's not safe for kids to be in our classrooms, I can't imagine why the district then says it's safe for teachers to send their kids to day care. Personally, I'd be angry if they made us come in and work from our classrooms. It implies that teachers can't be trusted to do their jobs without someone physically standing over their shoulders. I would think admin could tell from your work product if you aren't doing your job - ours have our teaching schedule and will "drop in" on Zoom calls, look through assignments/materials posted online, etc. I don't need to be in a classroom for them to do that. But I feel the same way about old-fashioned offices where warming a seat for more than 8 hours is considered better evidence of a good work ethic than the actual work produced. If you can do your job from home, you should be able to do that. And other people can get over it. We will have remote time every Wednesday according to the current schedule, and we have fought as a union for teacher to be able to CHOOSE to come in or work from home; some people can't work from home due to other distractions, or because they want access to materials to do demos (science) or because their child's daycare is closer to school than home, so this was important to us. Others want to work from home to minimize exposure, be home for family members, etc. Yes. We do have some teachers who want to work from school because their stuff is there. And I totally get that. They sent out a survey because, for safety, they want to have no more than 10% of the staff in the building at one time. As I moved jobs this year, all my stuff is here. I have no desire to go sit in an empty classroom for 8 hours a day and bring in items as needed. Districts that are forcing teachers to work on site should read the studies that suggest that the virus can be passed through an air conditioning system.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 2, 2020 22:23:43 GMT
14th year Math Teacher and going into 2nd year as MS Assistant Principal. We are all so concerned about our staff, students and families. How do you respond to people telling you that schools should open because teachers are no better than cashiers and medical professionals who work in industries that are currently open? honestly I ignore most if them as they can bite me. If it is legitimately someone I have to deal with, I tell them that some of the science says the less time you are f2f with a person, the less likely to get it. In addition grocery stores are large and is not as enclosed as a classroom. Medical personnel have the proper ppe and they know if someone has covid or is suspected to have covid and people don't typically take Tylenol to mask a fever and then go to the hospital
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Post by Merge on Aug 2, 2020 22:23:50 GMT
14th year Math Teacher and going into 2nd year as MS Assistant Principal. We are all so concerned about our staff, students and families. How do you respond to people telling you that schools should open because teachers are no better than cashiers and medical professionals who work in industries that are currently open? Well I wouldn't say that I'm better than people in those industries. I would say that cashiers get to work behind plexiglass and can reasonably do their job with a mask on. They work with one customer at a time, and never have prolonged contact with any one person unless they choose to hang out with a co-worker (which they shouldn't). I would say that hospitals are set up to discourage contagion. Medical professionals can reasonably do their jobs in multiple layers of PPE. The buildings have special air filtration systems that schools do not have (most older school buildings have terrible ventilation, period). I cannot think of any other job where the worker is required to spend 7+ hours each day in a poorly ventilated room with 25+ people who have poor self control, no sense of personal space, and who may or may not be willing and able to adequately keep a mask on. Well, I can think of one - working in a bar. And I notice that all the bars in my state are closed right now. We're not better than other workers, but the nature of our jobs and workplaces is very different than most other workers.
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2020 22:38:20 GMT
14th year Math Teacher and going into 2nd year as MS Assistant Principal. We are all so concerned about our staff, students and families. How do you respond to people telling you that schools should open because teachers are no better than cashiers and medical professionals who work in industries that are currently open? The first thing I do is say, "Are you open to changing your thinking on this?" or "Are you interested in hearing more about this from a teacher's perspective?" If they are, then we can talk about length of exposure to large groups, the types of work we're contracted to do and expectations of safety, types of PPE provided. Usually folks with that mindset are not very open to learning, though, sadly.
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Judy26
Pearl Clutcher
MOTFY Bitchy Nursemaid
Posts: 2,834
Location: NW PA
Jun 25, 2014 23:50:38 GMT
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Post by Judy26 on Aug 2, 2020 23:01:00 GMT
I’m a retired teacher but I’m employed part time as a transition support specialist in an adult education program. We are sate and federally funded and our budget has been cut 75%. We’ve furloughed half our teachers and cut half our classes. Our enrollment has grown exponentially due to the unemployment surge. My workload has doubled but my hours were cut by 1/3. It’s overwhelming and I am anxious beyond belief knowing that so many people need help and helping them is next to impossible.
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katybee
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,377
Jun 25, 2014 23:25:39 GMT
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Post by katybee on Aug 2, 2020 23:01:05 GMT
14th year Math Teacher and going into 2nd year as MS Assistant Principal. We are all so concerned about our staff, students and families. How do you respond to people telling you that schools should open because teachers are no better than cashiers and medical professionals who work in industries that are currently open? Well I wouldn't say that I'm better than people in those industries. I would say that cashiers get to work behind plexiglass and can reasonably do their job with a mask on. They work with one customer at a time, and never have prolonged contact with any one person unless they choose to hang out with a co-worker (which they shouldn't). I would say that hospitals are set up to discourage contagion. Medical professionals can reasonably do their jobs in multiple layers of PPE. The buildings have special air filtration systems that schools do not have (most older school buildings have terrible ventilation, period). I cannot think of any other job where the worker is required to spend 7+ hours each day in a poorly ventilated room with 25+ people who have poor self control, no sense of personal space, and who may or may not be willing and able to adequately keep a mask on. Well, I can think of one - working in a bar. And I notice that all the bars in my state are closed right now. We're not better than other workers, but the nature of our jobs and workplaces is very different than most other workers. Not to mention the countless posts I’m seeing in my teacher groups sharing ideas on ways to make barriers between students. There have been some really great ideas on using PVC pipes and plastic wrap. You can do your own class for only a couple hundred dollars! Plexiglass is a bit more. And all of the dollar store ideas for making sure kids have individual supply boxes—not just with crayons and pencils—but with the other things we use to teach every day: math counters and tools, magnetic letters, dry erase boards, etc. And the bags and boxes for the kids to store everything in. And then the ideas for the best PPE...breathable masks, not just to say “Thank-you, have a nice day,” but to teach in....ALL DAY LONG. Should I get 5 masks? 10? Should they have a see-through piece of plastic so kids can see me smile and see my mouth as I make different phonics sounds? Should I get a shield, instead? Or both? Should I get N95 masks....because the kids in my room won’t be wearing masks, and the latest research is showing they absolutely DO spread the virus. So...I’m thinking I’ll get away with only spending a few hundred dollars this year. Last I heard, cashiers at Costco weren’t having to build and construct their own plexiglass shields. (BTW, other than buying my masks and face shields, I’m not spending a dime of my own money this year. This from someone who has spent THOUSANDS over the years. But nothing has shown me how little I am respected by my district and community than the last few weeks.)
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Post by SockMonkey on Aug 2, 2020 23:13:52 GMT
Sound on for this one:
https://www.tiktok.com/@emerald_amethyst_/video/6850263290086542598
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Aug 2, 2020 23:58:24 GMT
Well I wouldn't say that I'm better than people in those industries. I would say that cashiers get to work behind plexiglass and can reasonably do their job with a mask on. They work with one customer at a time, and never have prolonged contact with any one person unless they choose to hang out with a co-worker (which they shouldn't). I would say that hospitals are set up to discourage contagion. Medical professionals can reasonably do their jobs in multiple layers of PPE. The buildings have special air filtration systems that schools do not have (most older school buildings have terrible ventilation, period). I cannot think of any other job where the worker is required to spend 7+ hours each day in a poorly ventilated room with 25+ people who have poor self control, no sense of personal space, and who may or may not be willing and able to adequately keep a mask on. Well, I can think of one - working in a bar. And I notice that all the bars in my state are closed right now. We're not better than other workers, but the nature of our jobs and workplaces is very different than most other workers. Not to mention the countless posts I’m seeing in my teacher groups sharing ideas on ways to make barriers between students. There have been some really great ideas on using PVC pipes and plastic wrap. You can do your own class for only a couple hundred dollars! Plexiglass is a bit more. And all of the dollar store ideas for making sure kids have individual supply boxes—not just with crayons and pencils—but with the other things we use to teach every day: math counters and tools, magnetic letters, dry erase boards, etc. And the bags and boxes for the kids to store everything in. And then the ideas for the best PPE...breathable masks, not just to say “Thank-you, have a nice day,” but to teach in....ALL DAY LONG. Should I get 5 masks? 10? Should they have a see-through piece of plastic so kids can see me smile and see my mouth as I make different phonics sounds? Should I get a shield, instead? Or both? Should I get N95 masks....because the kids in my room won’t be wearing masks, and the latest research is showing they absolutely DO spread the virus. So...I’m thinking I’ll get away with only spending a few hundred dollars this year. Last I heard, cashiers at Costco weren’t having to build and construct their own plexiglass shields. (BTW, other than buying my masks and face shields, I’m not spending a dime of my own money this year. This from someone who has spent THOUSANDS over the years. But nothing has shown me how little I am respected by my district and community than the last few weeks.)
I'm not interested in spending money this year and I can't even count how much I've spent over the years. We do have some plastic material we never used to childproof the spindles that we never used so we'll probably make use of it now.
I'm not feeling very respected right now either. Sometimes I wish the super would see the classrooms as they would be if we only had district purchased materials. I think he'd be shocked. Our first year in the new building would have been the closest to empty as he'd ever see.
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kate
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,509
Location: The city that doesn't sleep
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2014 3:30:05 GMT
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Post by kate on Aug 3, 2020 0:02:50 GMT
Fully virtual with staff on site. No rationale other than it might help with some of the "slackers" and we have all worked with them at some point. This blows my mind. Yes, it would be a bit easier for me to teach remotely from my classroom, but it also means I have to take a multi-leg journey on public transportation twice a day AND share indoor space with a bunch of adults who have taken DIFFERENT public transportation. It's not worth it. The crummy thing for me is that I won't even get to be in my classroom - it (along with all the special-subject rooms) is being turned into a homeroom, so I'll be teaching from an administrator's office or the lunchroom or wherever else they can find two square feet of quiet space for me. I would think admin could tell from your work product if you aren't doing your job - ours have our teaching schedule and will "drop in" on Zoom calls, look through assignments/materials posted online, etc. I don't need to be in a classroom for them to do that. Our admins did that last year. They also spot-checked our asynchronous lessons, which I welcomed!
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Post by Merge on Aug 3, 2020 0:05:47 GMT
Well I wouldn't say that I'm better than people in those industries. I would say that cashiers get to work behind plexiglass and can reasonably do their job with a mask on. They work with one customer at a time, and never have prolonged contact with any one person unless they choose to hang out with a co-worker (which they shouldn't). I would say that hospitals are set up to discourage contagion. Medical professionals can reasonably do their jobs in multiple layers of PPE. The buildings have special air filtration systems that schools do not have (most older school buildings have terrible ventilation, period). I cannot think of any other job where the worker is required to spend 7+ hours each day in a poorly ventilated room with 25+ people who have poor self control, no sense of personal space, and who may or may not be willing and able to adequately keep a mask on. Well, I can think of one - working in a bar. And I notice that all the bars in my state are closed right now. We're not better than other workers, but the nature of our jobs and workplaces is very different than most other workers. Not to mention the countless posts I’m seeing in my teacher groups sharing ideas on ways to make barriers between students. There have been some really great ideas on using PVC pipes and plastic wrap. You can do your own class for only a couple hundred dollars! Plexiglass is a bit more. And all of the dollar store ideas for making sure kids have individual supply boxes—not just with crayons and pencils—but with the other things we use to teach every day: math counters and tools, magnetic letters, dry erase boards, etc. And the bags and boxes for the kids to store everything in. And then the ideas for the best PPE...breathable masks, not just to say “Thank-you, have a nice day,” but to teach in....ALL DAY LONG. Should I get 5 masks? 10? Should they have a see-through piece of plastic so kids can see me smile and see my mouth as I make different phonics sounds? Should I get a shield, instead? Or both? Should I get N95 masks....because the kids in my room won’t be wearing masks, and the latest research is showing they absolutely DO spread the virus. So...I’m thinking I’ll get away with only spending a few hundred dollars this year. Last I heard, cashiers at Costco weren’t having to build and construct their own plexiglass shields. (BTW, other than buying my masks and face shields, I’m not spending a dime of my own money this year. This from someone who has spent THOUSANDS over the years. But nothing has shown me how little I am respected by my district and community than the last few weeks.) Some music teachers are making kits for students with rhythm instruments to use at home or individually at school - homemade egg shakers, a pair of chopsticks to use as rhythm sticks, scrapers/sand blocks from pool noodles cut into pieces. I have 800 students. I will not be buying and making 800 kits. We'll be relying heavily on body percussion and "found" sounds.
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Post by Merge on Aug 3, 2020 0:08:09 GMT
Fully virtual with staff on site. No rationale other than it might help with some of the "slackers" and we have all worked with them at some point. This blows my mind. Yes, it would be a bit easier for me to teach remotely from my classroom, but it also means I have to take a multi-leg journey on public transportation twice a day AND share indoor space with a bunch of adults who have taken DIFFERENT public transportation. It's not worth it. The crummy thing for me is that I won't even get to be in my classroom - it (along with all the special-subject rooms) is being turned into a homeroom, so I'll be teaching from an administrator's office or the lunchroom or wherever else they can find two square feet of quiet space for me. I would think admin could tell from your work product if you aren't doing your job - ours have our teaching schedule and will "drop in" on Zoom calls, look through assignments/materials posted online, etc. I don't need to be in a classroom for them to do that. Our admins did that last year. They also spot-checked our asynchronous lessons, which I welcomed! Absolutely. I work my butt off on lesson videos. I want my admin to see them!
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