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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 14:54:15 GMT
I think the issue is that American medicine wouldn’t let them refuse the treatment even if they are willing to go. You think in those roughly 6000 people listed as being in hospital, that ambulances went door to door looking for unwell people and dragging them off to hospital against their will? I think a good number of people are taken to hospitals against their will by nursing homes, senior living centers, and families, yes. I’ve seen it personally too many times to think a person could really refuse treatment if they wanted to. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 5, 2020 14:55:23 GMT
Why do seniors think they are invincible? I don't! |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 14:56:21 GMT
I truly don’t get how thinking someone should have a good life is entitled or selfish. All the seniors I know in real life say that they would rather die than stop seeing their families. Why is it selfish or entitled to let them make that choice? I truly cannot understand the point of prolonging the lives of seniors in nursing homes. Your stance on living life in the time of Covid blows my mind. It really does. Are you seriously ok with knowing that if you catch Covid and happen to be unlucky enough to have severe complications from it and wind up dead, that you’ll be leaving your children motherless? Your spouse alone? Is being able to go to Disney or a play or throw a party really worth dying over to you? I think we are doing the bare minimum of activity required to keep us from committing suicide. We either take a chance and do a few things that we deem relatively safe (and clearly they were because we didn’t get it) or we give in to having lost the will to live. We don’t get to do the vast majority of things we got to do before. We have to make do with the few things that are available. I’m not living life like I was before. This *is* my pandemic life. |
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Post by crazy4scraps on Aug 5, 2020 15:00:08 GMT
My heart breaks for victims of covid, especially the ones who have acquired it due to lack of choice — like forced to return to crowded work places, or because someone else didn’t take proper precautions and wear a mask properly or at all. I can’t feel much for this particular community who’s demonstrated their abundance of hatred and lack of regard for human lives other than their own, and have rejected medical science in favour of their own putrid ignorance.  |
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Post by pjaye on Aug 5, 2020 15:03:00 GMT
I’ve seen it personally too many times to think a person could really refuse treatment if they wanted to. I guess with your fantastic universal healthcare system where everyone who needs it gets free treatment, they can't wait to drag in thousands of elderly people who will all be in hospital, potentially ICU for weeks on end and then die. Oh yes, I can see that happening...not |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 5, 2020 15:03:13 GMT
Are you seriously ok with knowing that if you catch Covid and happen to be unlucky enough to have severe complications from it and wind up dead, that you’ll be leaving your children motherless? Your spouse alone? Is being able to go to Disney or a play or throw a party really worth dying over to you? This. And really I guess I'm having a really hard time with idea that *events* are *life*. I feel like it is a veiled insult to those of us who are happily and gratefully taking this virus seriously and isolating for the greater good and the good of those we love. And I wrote and rewrote this several times because I didn't want to seem like I am picking on someone who may be suicidal over this. I tried to choose my words carefully. But, I'm totally having a WTF moment. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 5, 2020 15:05:29 GMT
I think we are doing the bare minimum of activity required to keep us from committing suicide. Please get some counseling. Please. You have structured your life in such a way, it's not mentally healthy. When superficial things were taken from you, you have nothing to cling to. It's very sad. And I'm very concerned. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 15:05:34 GMT
I’ve seen it personally too many times to think a person could really refuse treatment if they wanted to. I guess with your fantastic universal healthcare system where everyone who needs it gets free treatment, they can't wait to drag in thousands of elderly people who will all be in hospital, potentially ICU for weeks on end and then die. Oh yes, I can see that happening...not Western medicine prolongs a lot of lives that it shouldn’t. |
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Post by pierkiss on Aug 5, 2020 15:07:41 GMT
. You can refuse treatment at any point. DNRs exist for this reason. Wills exist for this reason. Verbally telling your doctor not to take extraordinary measures before shit goes sideways exists for a reason. I have personally witnessed too many situations where a person did not want medical treatment, but received it anyway because their family wanted it to believe any of that would work. I mean, look at people who try to commit suicide and are treated. They didn’t want treatment. I believe that true medical choice equals freely available pain free suicide. I believe the way we treat old people in this country shows that we value quantity of life over quality of life and the way we’re treating old people in this pandemic is a perfect example of that. Like I said, DNRs and advanced directives exist for a reason. If a person got to a certain age, hell any age, and they felt strongly about not receiving care, they NEED to put it in writing. It needs to be in their chart. As most facilities are digital now, it should be easy to find it they know your name when you come in. They need to make their next of kin aware of their wishes. Maybe consider putting it on a bracelet (like the medical alert bracelets) and wearing it at all times. Suicides are different than accidents or long term (or short term) illnesses. Some people genuinely don’t want to be saved and are super upset (rightfully so) when their attempt gets foiled. Again, DNR and advanced directive would be handy in this situation. Other people regret their decision and don’t actually want to die, and are grateful when they are saved. That is as far into that discussion as I’m going to wade. If it is not in writing anywhere, and someone calls an ambulance and gets you and takes you to the hospital, the drs and nurses are going to treat you. That is their job, and they have to do it. Euthanasia is a whole different ball of wax. For what it’s worth I am not against assisted suicide, esp in terminal cases. But I think there needs to be some serious psychological evaluation taking place to make sure the person really understands and knows what they’re choosing to do. That they are mentally competent enough to make that choice. I don’t think it would be appropriate to get sick with something like Covid and then say “oops, I’ve got it. I’ve had a good life and I think I’ll take my exit now. Give me the pills doc.” I do think it would be appropriate to write out a DNR upon getting diagnosed and making sure everyone knew about it. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 15:08:47 GMT
I think we are doing the bare minimum of activity required to keep us from committing suicide. Please get some counseling. Please. You have structured your life in such a way, it's not mentally healthy. When superficial things were taken from you, you have nothing to cling to. It's very sad. And I'm very concerned. I see them as core, not superficial. I would never do anything while my kids are under 18. That wouldn’t be fair to them. I think the way some people are living now is the way people on the ship in Wall-E lived. To me, that’s the perfect illustration of life without events and friends and activities that aren’t on a screen. And no, that’s not a life worth living. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 15:11:23 GMT
I have personally witnessed too many situations where a person did not want medical treatment, but received it anyway because their family wanted it to believe any of that would work. I mean, look at people who try to commit suicide and are treated. They didn’t want treatment. I believe that true medical choice equals freely available pain free suicide. I believe the way we treat old people in this country shows that we value quantity of life over quality of life and the way we’re treating old people in this pandemic is a perfect example of that. Like I said, DNRs and advanced directives exist for a reason. If a person got to a certain age, hell any age, and they felt strongly about not receiving care, they NEED to put it in writing. It needs to be in their chart. As most facilities are digital now, it should be easy to find it they know your name when you come in. They need to make their next of kin aware of their wishes. Maybe consider putting it on a bracelet (like the medical alert bracelets) and wearing it at all times. Suicides are different than accidents or long term (or short term) illnesses. Some people genuinely don’t want to be saved and are super upset (rightfully so) when their attempt gets foiled. Again, DNR and advanced directive would be handy in this situation. Other people regret their decision and don’t actually want to die, and are grateful when they are saved. That is as far into that discussion as I’m going to wade. If it is not in writing anywhere, and someone calls an ambulance and gets you and takes you to the hospital, the drs and nurses are going to treat you. That is their job, and they have to do it. Euthanasia is a whole different ball of wax. For what it’s worth I am not against assisted suicide, esp in terminal cases. But I think there needs to be some serious psychological evaluation taking place to make sure the person really understands and knows what they’re choosing to do. That they are mentally competent enough to make that choice. I don’t think it would be appropriate to get sick with something like Covid and then say “oops, I’ve got it. I’ve had a good life and I think I’ll take my exit now. Give me the pills doc.” I do think it would be appropriate to write out a DNR upon getting diagnosed and making sure everyone knew about it. DNRs only do good if the hospital sees them or knows about them. I have personally witnessed two people with DNRs be revived and treated in ways they didn’t want because the hospital just asks the family what they want. If an ambulance gets called by someone else, the paramedics just automatically start working on you and take you to the hospital. They don’t stop and look around for a DNR. |
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ashley
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by ashley on Aug 5, 2020 15:11:37 GMT
Please get some counseling. Please. You have structured your life in such a way, it's not mentally healthy. When superficial things were taken from you, you have nothing to cling to. It's very sad. And I'm very concerned. I see them as core, not superficial. I would never do anything while my kids are under 18. That wouldn’t be fair to them. I think the way some people are living now is the way people on the ship in Wall-E lived. To me, that’s the perfect illustration of life without events and friends and activities that aren’t on a screen. And no, that’s not a life worth living. Killing yourself at any point would be unfair to a lot of people; being a mother doesn’t stop when your children turn 18. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 5, 2020 15:12:24 GMT
Please get some counseling. Please. You have structured your life in such a way, it's not mentally healthy. When superficial things were taken from you, you have nothing to cling to. It's very sad. And I'm very concerned. I see them as core, not superficial. I would never do anything while my kids are under 18. That wouldn’t be fair to them. I think the way some people are living now is the way people on the ship in Wall-E lived. To me, that’s the perfect illustration of life without events and friends and activities that aren’t on a screen. And no, that’s not a life worth living. You're an adult. Old enough to realize the difference between a temporary difficulty and a permanent situation. This is temporary. I know it doesn't feel like it, five months in, but it's temporary. I hope no one would be wiling to end their life over a temporary situation. |
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Post by pierkiss on Aug 5, 2020 15:12:59 GMT
Your stance on living life in the time of Covid blows my mind. It really does. Are you seriously ok with knowing that if you catch Covid and happen to be unlucky enough to have severe complications from it and wind up dead, that you’ll be leaving your children motherless? Your spouse alone? Is being able to go to Disney or a play or throw a party really worth dying over to you? I think we are doing the bare minimum of activity required to keep us from committing suicide. We either take a chance and do a few things that we deem relatively safe (and clearly they were because we didn’t get it) or we give in to having lost the will to live. We don’t get to do the vast majority of things we got to do before. We have to make do with the few things that are available. I’m not living life like I was before. This *is* my pandemic life. I appreciate your answer. I don’t fully understand it, but I do appreciate that you replied. I sincerely hope you are ok. I am worried about you. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Post by pinklady on Aug 5, 2020 15:13:21 GMT
The entitled selfish American has spoken. we are fucking doomed. I truly don’t get how thinking someone should have a good life is entitled or selfish. All the seniors I know in real life say that they would rather die than stop seeing their families. Why is it selfish or entitled to let them make that choice? I truly cannot understand the point of prolonging the lives of seniors in nursing homes. You really are ignorant. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 15:16:23 GMT
I see them as core, not superficial. I would never do anything while my kids are under 18. That wouldn’t be fair to them. I think the way some people are living now is the way people on the ship in Wall-E lived. To me, that’s the perfect illustration of life without events and friends and activities that aren’t on a screen. And no, that’s not a life worth living. You're an adult. Old enough to realize the difference between a temporary difficulty and a permanent situation. This is temporary. I know it doesn't feel like it, five months in, but it's temporary. I hope no one would be wiling to end their life over a temporary situation. I think that part of the issue is that, even if I can accept it’s temporary, I’m losing this time. I don’t want future time, I want this time, when my kids are these ages. I’m losing this part of their childhood. I don’t care if I get time in the future, that’s not the time I want. I’ll happily give away or lose out on that time because it has no value to me. So, it doesn’t matter to me if I don’t have the time in the future. I don’t particularly care if I come out on the other side if the other side is years away. And I think that’s a valid choice. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 15:17:11 GMT
I truly don’t get how thinking someone should have a good life is entitled or selfish. All the seniors I know in real life say that they would rather die than stop seeing their families. Why is it selfish or entitled to let them make that choice? I truly cannot understand the point of prolonging the lives of seniors in nursing homes. You really are ignorant. I’m ignorant because I don’t think anyone actually wants to spend years alone in a nursing home? |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 5, 2020 15:17:30 GMT
I see them as core, not superficial. They are superficial. The people I love, those are the things worth living for. If I contract Covid and kill my mother, my relationship with her won't be simply postponed or required to wear a mask and stay 6 ft away, it will be over. There are a lot of really worthwhile pursuits that one can do while isolating from those outside of your household. And for you to imply otherwise is insulting. There are ways to continue relationships as well. Zoom and skype exist. They are fun. My friend and I baked sourdough bread together videoing over Facebook messenger. What fun we had checking in every hour and kneading our loaves of bread together. This is something we never would have done if not for Covid. You just have to be creative. Maybe it is because I have a mental illness. I have trained myself to be creative and celebrate joy wherever I find it. The level of gratitude I feel for a pleasant day is something maybe the average person doesn't understand. I admit, during this virus time in our collective lives, so many people are looking so damn shallow to me. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 15:19:18 GMT
I see them as core, not superficial. They are superficial. The people I love, those are the things worth living for. If I contract Covid and kill my mother, my relationship with her won't be simply postponed or required to wear a mask and stay 6 ft away, it will be over. There are a lot of really worthwhile pursuits that one can do while isolating from those outside of your household. And for you to imply otherwise is insulting. There are ways to continue relationships as well. Zoom and skype exist. They are fun. My friend and I baked sourdough bread together videoing over Facebook messenger. What fun we had checking in every hour and kneading our loaves of bread together. This is something we never would have done if not for Covid. You just have to be creative. Maybe it is because I have a mental illness. I have trained myself to be creative and celebrate joy wherever I find it. The level of gratitude I feel for a pleasant day is something maybe the average person doesn't understand. I admit, during this virus time in our collective lives, so many people are looking so damn shallow to me. I will never isolate from those outside my household, so everything after that statement doesn’t apply to me, sorry. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Post by pinklady on Aug 5, 2020 15:19:50 GMT
I’m ignorant because I don’t think anyone actually wants to spend years alone in a nursing home? You're ignorant because you can't see anything past your nose right this very second. You're a selfish entitled asshole who would rather infect an innocent person because you want this time right now. You demonstrated over and over that you have zero cognitive and reasonability skills. Frankly, the fact that you are "raising" children is horrific. |
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
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Jun 26, 2014 0:45:23 GMT
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Post by oh yvonne on Aug 5, 2020 15:21:41 GMT
I wish everyone would just back off of myshelly. It's obvious she's not okay and yet you guys continue to engage and poke at her. Honestly I don't think some of you aren't worried for her one whit and just saying it to be cruel. Nothing to say is going to make a difference in her outlook.
I think you'd be better off personally messaging her and engaging her off the pile on if you really mean to help. This is just sad.
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 5, 2020 15:21:41 GMT
I truly don’t get how thinking someone should have a good life is entitled or selfish. All the seniors I know in real life say that they would rather die than stop seeing their families. Why is it selfish or entitled to let them make that choice? I truly cannot understand the point of prolonging the lives of seniors in nursing homes. Your stance on living life in the time of Covid blows my mind. It really does. Are you seriously ok with knowing that if you catch Covid and happen to be unlucky enough to have severe complications from it and wind up dead, that you’ll be leaving your children motherless? Your spouse alone? Is being able to go to Disney or a play or throw a party really worth dying over to you? I’m equally perplexed given her husband is a teacher, and she’s expressed (valid) concern about that. The contradiction of it all - just makes no sense to me at all. |
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 18:57:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 15:22:18 GMT
I’m losing this part of their childhood. But you're not, are you? Presumably, they're there with you all day every day, it's up to you what you make of that. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 18:57:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2020 15:23:24 GMT
Oh boo-fucking-hoo.
Suck it up, buttercup.
God, you're fucking selfish and clueless.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 5, 2020 15:25:44 GMT
Honestly I don't think some of you aren't worried for her one whit and just saying it to be cruel. This is not the case for me. I know exactly how it feels to be so desperate you want to kill yourself. I also know exactly how it feels when someone you love tried to kill themselves too. I tried to offer gentle suggestions on how we all get through this illness while maintaining connection with people. And I was completely dismissed. Nothing to say is going to make a difference in her outlook. This is, however, most likely the case. So with that I will leave. |
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Post by pjaye on Aug 5, 2020 15:26:29 GMT
’m ignorant because I don’t think anyone actually wants to spend years alone in a nursing home? Given that you are so far removed from what 'normal' people consider to be a fulfilling life, makes you even less equipped to comment on what that group of people do or not want. |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 15:26:52 GMT
I’m ignorant because I don’t think anyone actually wants to spend years alone in a nursing home? You're ignorant because you can't see anything past your nose right this very second. You're a selfish entitled asshole who would rather infect an innocent person because you want this time right now. You demonstrated over and over that you have zero cognitive and reasonability skills. Frankly, the fact that you are "raising" children is horrific. Your comments were quoting my feelings about nursing homes and I don’t see how any of that relates to nursing homes. |
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Post by christine58 on Aug 5, 2020 15:27:12 GMT
I mean, look at people who try to commit suicide and are treated. They didn’t want treatment. OMG...OMG... OMG are you serious? |
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Post by myshelly on Aug 5, 2020 15:27:34 GMT
I’m losing this part of their childhood. But you're not, are you? Presumably, they're there with you all day every day, it's up to you what you make of that. I view all of this as lost time. |
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sassyangel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,456
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Post by sassyangel on Aug 5, 2020 15:27:45 GMT
Please get some counseling. Please. You have structured your life in such a way, it's not mentally healthy. When superficial things were taken from you, you have nothing to cling to. It's very sad. And I'm very concerned. I see them as core, not superficial. I would never do anything while my kids are under 18. That wouldn’t be fair to them. I think the way some people are living now is the way people on the ship in Wall-E lived. To me, that’s the perfect illustration of life without events and friends and activities that aren’t on a screen. And no, that’s not a life worth living.  Your kids will never stop missing you though, even if they lose you in their 60s or 70s. |
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Your kids will never stop missing you though, even if they lose you in their 60s or 70s.