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Post by compeateropeator on Aug 14, 2020 21:58:24 GMT
Road engineer chiming in. The comments here are typical of loving them or hating them! Data wise: roundabouts decrease the severity of traffic accidents by 80%! That’s a huge number for improving the safety of the intersection. Any time you have to stop while driving increases the hazard for others not paying attention and hitting others. The roundabout also has less decisions needed to navigate it - so less opportunity to have to think. Cost wise: the roundabout needs more land and it’s a lot of new pavement so upfront costs may be high - but no ongoing maintenance costs for traffic signals which leads to a large decrease in severe crashes (red light runners, T-bone, rear ends). Crashes still happen but the speed is lower, so less severe impacts (cars can drive away versus being towed away). Road engineers (should) review the traffic accident reports to determine placement. They are not placed willy nilly - they are in response to a high traffic accident count at said intersection - yes, deaths rate much higher in those studies. The center part is usually paved so larger/longer trucks can ride over the median - that is on purpose as they can’t turn so tight as in smaller wheelbase vehicles. And the type of traffic is looked at when designing the roundabout location. And yes, it seems each area builds them a bit differently. Some of them are super complicated to me and I like to think I know how to drive! Another “newer” type of intersection is the diverging diamond which I’ve seen on freeway overpass on/off ramps. Those are the ones where you get moved to the “wrong” side of the road and then flipped back. Lots of thinking while driving through those! Wow. Thanks for your response. very interesting. We have the possibility of a diverging diamond in my area. Most people have been 😳 when looking at the plans. But I will hope for the best if that is the option that is picked. Hahaha. 😄
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Post by Jockscrap on Aug 14, 2020 23:10:42 GMT
She says in Spain, you only drive in the outside lane and don’t take the inner lane for going anything over 180 degrees like we do in the UK. It seems to work for Spain, but I wonder how many Brits driving there are aware that roundabouts don’t work the same way. I can’t picture how this works! You take the inner lane if you’re coming off at an earlier exit? Sorry - I didn’t explain this very well! In the uk on a standard two lane roundabout, if we are taking the third exit three quarters of the way round, we take the lane nearest the middle of the roundabout to go round. In Spain, they only use the outside lane no matter what exit they take (there is some point to the inside lane but I can’t remember what exceptions there are for using it but not for general use). www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.htmlHere’s how it is supposed to be done although I wouldn’t come off the roundabout into the left hand lane when turning right as it’s just asking for trouble. Someone sitting waiting to turn left at the previous exit might just decide to go into that lane just as you are exiting, so I always stick the right hand lane for coming off.
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Post by ilovesmores on Aug 14, 2020 23:39:40 GMT
We have one to get out of our subdivision. I have to go through it to go anywhere. We exit out of our neighborhood into a busy street. Before the roundabout went in, the busy street was divided and we had to stop both places to get out. The township had lots of meetings about it and everyone was against it, except the township, so it didn’t really matter. They said it would be safer so they put it in. There were so many accidents! As my dad says, roundabouts are the work of the devil
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Post by summer on Aug 14, 2020 23:44:18 GMT
I hate them. Luckily there are not any near me. When I’m traveling and do have to use one, it’s usually a free for all because no one seems to know how to use it and everyone thinks they have the right of way.
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Post by smasonnc on Aug 15, 2020 1:28:50 GMT
We have this monstrosity in our town. I’d rather do a two lane one backwards, driving on the left.
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smartypants71
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,816
Location: Houston, TX
Jun 25, 2014 22:47:49 GMT
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Post by smartypants71 on Aug 15, 2020 1:58:45 GMT
I don't mind them at all, but knew how to navigate them from living overseas. There is a medium sized one between here and DD's apartment that I take frequently. My biggest problem has been the bike riders who seem to think all rules of the road do not apply to them and just go flying through without even slowing down. Many drivers don't realize the car already in the roundabout has the right of way. Back in the 80's, the first country I ever had to drive through roundabouts had different rules. If you were already in the roundabout, you had to yield to the drivers who were entering. Really made a mess of things for me when I got to the next country and the rules were totally different. If it’s the one I’m thinking of, that one is a PITA. They need to restripe it and replace the cobblestones. There’s a reason they call it the circle of death
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Post by pattyraindrops on Aug 15, 2020 2:57:08 GMT
I'm good with them. People didn't know how to use turn signals, traffic lights, freeways, on ramps etc when they first came out. The US can learn roundabouts just like we learned everything else.
What I don't know- do they really help with traffic? Are they safer? I'm not talking about opinions. I'm just wondering what studies have shown.
If the studies say they are better then I think we should have them and learn to use them.
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Post by **GypsyGirl** on Aug 15, 2020 4:02:18 GMT
If it’s the one I’m thinking of, that one is a PITA. They need to restripe it and replace the cobblestones. There’s a reason they call it the circle of death It is and I agree! With that big new apartment complex going up next to it, it will only get worse I'm afraid.
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Post by Sanibel on Aug 15, 2020 5:56:20 GMT
We recently moved just outside Indianapolis, Indiana in the Carmel area. There are several hundred roundabouts and I love them! We can be anywhere in no time because we are not stuck at red lights or stop signs.
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Post by gale w on Aug 15, 2020 6:46:47 GMT
We recently moved just outside Indianapolis, Indiana in the Carmel area. There are several hundred roundabouts and I love them! We can be anywhere in no time because we are not stuck at red lights or stop signs. Carmel is the town I was talking about in my post. 😂 I try to avoid it. I can handle roundabouts unless I'm not familiar with the area.
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Post by Sanibel on Aug 15, 2020 8:35:18 GMT
We recently moved just outside Indianapolis, Indiana in the Carmel area. There are several hundred roundabouts and I love them! We can be anywhere in no time because we are not stuck at red lights or stop signs. Carmel is the town I was talking about in my post. 😂 I try to avoid it. I can handle roundabouts unless I'm not familiar with the area. We are in the tri-cities area of Carmel/Fishers/Noblesville and they are everywhere. We’ve gotten use to them very quickly and I love them!
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
Jul 12, 2014 21:58:10 GMT
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Post by pridemom on Aug 15, 2020 12:36:17 GMT
Love them but they were common where I grew up in New England. I hate a traffic light. But I also like engineering feats like the figure 8, cloverleafs, and the diverging diamond overpasses. Wheeeee! Diverging diamonds look weird the first time, but I love them because without left turns in front of oncoming traffic they’re so smooth. The concept originated in my state and we have quite a few now.
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
Jul 12, 2014 21:58:10 GMT
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Post by pridemom on Aug 15, 2020 12:48:10 GMT
Road engineer chiming in. The comments here are typical of loving them or hating them! Data wise: roundabouts decrease the severity of traffic accidents by 80%! That’s a huge number for improving the safety of the intersection. Any time you have to stop while driving increases the hazard for others not paying attention and hitting others. The roundabout also has less decisions needed to navigate it - so less opportunity to have to think. Cost wise: the roundabout needs more land and it’s a lot of new pavement so upfront costs may be high - but no ongoing maintenance costs for traffic signals which leads to a large decrease in severe crashes (red light runners, T-bone, rear ends). Crashes still happen but the speed is lower, so less severe impacts (cars can drive away versus being towed away). Road engineers (should) review the traffic accident reports to determine placement. They are not placed willy nilly - they are in response to a high traffic accident count at said intersection - yes, deaths rate much higher in those studies. The center part is usually paved so larger/longer trucks can ride over the median - that is on purpose as they can’t turn so tight as in smaller wheelbase vehicles. And the type of traffic is looked at when designing the roundabout location. And yes, it seems each area builds them a bit differently. Some of them are super complicated to me and I like to think I know how to drive! Another “newer” type of intersection is the diverging diamond which I’ve seen on freeway overpass on/off ramps. Those are the ones where you get moved to the “wrong” side of the road and then flipped back. Lots of thinking while driving through those! Wow. Thanks for your response. very interesting. We have the possibility of a diverging diamond in my area. Most people have been 😳 when looking at the plans. But I will hope for the best if that is the option that is picked. Hahaha. 😄 They’re great. Here’s a drive through simulation. Once you go through, you’ll see they’re really pretty easy. youtu.be/NANacKPO0Q4
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anniebeth24
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,716
Jun 26, 2014 14:12:17 GMT
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Post by anniebeth24 on Aug 15, 2020 12:48:52 GMT
The ones near me have terrible signage which contributes to the confusion.
One of the "exits" is an interstate on ramp and the sign makes it appear that going onto the interstate is your only option. People see that and start backing up!
We drove through rural areas of France last year and every roundabout seemed to have a huge sign showing the names of every exit path. Very helpful.
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Post by Basket1lady on Aug 15, 2020 13:58:47 GMT
I can’t picture how this works! You take the inner lane if you’re coming off at an earlier exit? Sorry - I didn’t explain this very well! In the uk on a standard two lane roundabout, if we are taking the third exit three quarters of the way round, we take the lane nearest the middle of the roundabout to go round. In Spain, they only use the outside lane no matter what exit they take (there is some point to the inside lane but I can’t remember what exceptions there are for using it but not for general use). www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/roundabouts.htmlHere’s how it is supposed to be done although I wouldn’t come off the roundabout into the left hand lane when turning right as it’s just asking for trouble. Someone sitting waiting to turn left at the previous exit might just decide to go into that lane just as you are exiting, so I always stick the right hand lane for coming off. We see this posted frequently on the base FB page. Except that’s how it works in France (and the U.K.) Here, there are few circles with two lanes and if there are multiple lanes, they are used wildly nilly. Maybe because there is a huge concentration of foreigners in the area from dozens of countries?
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Post by shutterbug2sue on Aug 15, 2020 14:16:55 GMT
The ones near me have terrible signage which contributes to the confusion. One of the "exits" is an interstate on ramp and the sign makes it appear that going onto the interstate is your only option. People see that and start backing up! We drove through rural areas of France last year and every roundabout seemed to have a huge sign showing the names of every exit path. Very helpful. Road engineer back: Signage is tricky. We call it “litter on a stick” as it makes things seem better but nobody reads/follows the sign information or it gives people a false sense of security. Some guidance for roundabouts is to not have the entry signage! But first timers need that! Sounds like the signage at the ramps needs to be moved/changed so the information is not so confusing!
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Post by shutterbug2sue on Aug 15, 2020 14:20:01 GMT
We see this posted frequently on the base FB page. Except that’s how it works in France (and the U.K.) Here, there are few circles with two lanes and if there are multiple lanes, they are used wildly nilly. Maybe because there is a huge concentration of foreigners in the area from dozens of countries? I can see how the inner circle is confusing - no lane lines to keep people in their lane!
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 15, 2020 15:03:18 GMT
I don’t mind normal 1 lane ones. But, we have a new 2 lane one that I hate. I’m always worried if I have to use the inside lane, I will get hit trying to get off. Are diverging diamonds the same thing as jug handles? NJ has a lot of those. At first I didn’t like them, it’s counter intuitive. Turn right to go left but then you get used to them.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 17:55:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2020 15:33:18 GMT
We see this posted frequently on the base FB page. Except that’s how it works in France (and the U.K.) Here, there are few circles with two lanes and if there are multiple lanes, they are used wildly nilly. Maybe because there is a huge concentration of foreigners in the area from dozens of countries? I can see how the inner circle is confusing - no lane lines to keep people in their lane! That image isn't typical though, it's computer generated. The approach road usually has marking if it is a two or more lane approach to guide you so we would naturally use the inner part of the circle is we were intending to turn right and stay on the outer part if we were turning left or going straight across according to the approach road markings. Roundabout driving is part of our practical driving test as well as out written test so we are really taught how to proceed from the very beginning of driving. Here's a better video of the different road markings when you approach roundabouts in the UK and how to drive through them.
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Post by melanieg on Aug 15, 2020 15:53:38 GMT
Our city puts them in the stupidest spots. Not where it is busy and needed. There is one in a quiet residential area with a bike lane on the road. Idiots.
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Post by Jockscrap on Aug 15, 2020 17:02:29 GMT
I don’t mind normal 1 lane ones. But, we have a new 2 lane one that I hate. I’m always worried if I have to use the inside lane, I will get hit trying to get off. Are diverging diamonds the same thing as jug handles? NJ has a lot of those. At first I didn’t like them, it’s counter intuitive. Turn right to go left but then you get used to them. That is a risk for sure, if other users aren’t paying attention. I always, always look over my (left) shoulder when exiting a roundabout and constantly check my mirrors so I’m aware of who is where.
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Post by gale w on Aug 15, 2020 19:22:21 GMT
Another thing they're starting to implement here are J turns. If you would normally cross or turn left at a 4 lane highway (2 each direction), you now have to turn right, go through a U turn looking thing, and then either go straight or turn right when you get back to the road you came off of. It probably is way safer (people tend to look for traffic for the nearer 2 lanes and forget to look for the other two) but it's a pain for people pulling a long trailer.
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huskergal
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,262
Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Aug 15, 2020 20:34:10 GMT
I don't mind roundabouts as long as people know how to use them. People around here don't know how to use 4 way stops. They also don't know that whether you are turning left or right onto a 4 lane, you stay in your lane. Left turners should be able to turn left into a lane at the same time as a right turner, but right turners feel the need to swing wide and go into the left lane. People really need to learn traffic laws.
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
Jul 12, 2014 21:58:10 GMT
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Post by pridemom on Aug 15, 2020 21:41:32 GMT
Another thing they're starting to implement here are J turns. If you would normally cross or turn left at a 4 lane highway (2 each direction), you now have to turn right, go through a U turn looking thing, and then either go straight or turn right when you get back to the road you came off of. It probably is way safer (people tend to look for traffic for the nearer 2 lanes and forget to look for the other two) but it's a pain for people pulling a long trailer. Some my DOT does have a bump out on the shoulder so when you swing around for the J, you have enough space to turn with a trailer. It also has a right merging lane.
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Post by gale w on Aug 15, 2020 22:32:13 GMT
Another thing they're starting to implement here are J turns. If you would normally cross or turn left at a 4 lane highway (2 each direction), you now have to turn right, go through a U turn looking thing, and then either go straight or turn right when you get back to the road you came off of. It probably is way safer (people tend to look for traffic for the nearer 2 lanes and forget to look for the other two) but it's a pain for people pulling a long trailer. Some my DOT does have a bump out on the shoulder so when you swing around for the J, you have enough space to turn with a trailer. It also has a right merging lane. I think they still have to watch 2 lanes of traffic on both sides though. Even with a bump out they probably can't do a U turn while staying only in their own lane. There aren't many near us yet so I don't think dh has had to go through one with the semi and grain trailer. I'd like to see one in action.
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Post by shutterbug2sue on Aug 15, 2020 22:59:07 GMT
Another thing they're starting to implement here are J turns. If you would normally cross or turn left at a 4 lane highway (2 each direction), you now have to turn right, go through a U turn looking thing, and then either go straight or turn right when you get back to the road you came off of. It probably is way safer (people tend to look for traffic for the nearer 2 lanes and forget to look for the other two) but it's a pain for people pulling a long trailer. We call these Michigan lefts. I didn’t realize they had a real name! They are common on the median/boulevard type roads.
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Post by librarylady on Aug 16, 2020 2:13:20 GMT
They are called Michigan left turns here as well. I know it was tried at a busy intersection...the traffic engineers insisted it would eliminate the traffic stacking up as drivers waited for a safe left turn. What now happens is a huge stack up of traffic where the U turn happens about 1/2 block away from the intersection--as well as wrecks from drivers who didn't understand what was going on. I THINK that after two years of drama the intersection was returned to normal.
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Post by alsomsknit on Aug 16, 2020 2:29:24 GMT
When they showed up locally, I hated roundabouts. One of them was placed as such it seemed the architect/engineer had found an exciting new element to employ. It ended up being made a larger circle a few months after that section was finished as the engineer did not take into account the 18 wheelers that frequented this road. It was far too small for one to navigate around. To this day,it is/was still the most idiotic place for a roundabout
The others I have made peace with and recently realized they do make the traffic pattern flow better vs a 4 way stop..
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Post by bessieb on Aug 16, 2020 14:00:39 GMT
I’m in the UK but visit my friend in Spain every year. She is a brilliant driver and totally comfortable driving ‘on the wrong side of the road’ but I couldn’t get my head round how she drove at roundabouts. She says in Spain, you only drive in the outside lane and don’t take the inner lane for going anything over 180 degrees like we do in the UK. It seems to work for Spain, but I wonder how many Brits driving there are aware that roundabouts don’t work the same way. I know I’ve heard of another country where you give way to folk coming onto the roundabout. UK roundabouts seem to work pretty efficiently on the whole but I hate the multi lane ones with lights on them. In Italy you give way to people joining the roundabout - counter- intuitive to me. I love roundabouts when people use them properly - they keep traffic flowing. I love the "magic" roundabouts in the UK (Hemel magic roundabout) - 6 little roundabouts round a big central one.
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Post by librarylady on Aug 16, 2020 19:27:13 GMT
Here is how they do it in Paris (The Craziest Roundabout in Europe - Arc de Triomphe in Paris) youtu.be/-2RCPpdmSVg
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