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Post by sweetshabbyroses on Sept 26, 2020 15:13:05 GMT
Wow, I'm probably going down the rabbit hole with this post but I have to ask. His show was on Black Lives Matter and white privilege. One of the things discussed was how African Americans face daily micro-aggressions and they gave this scenario as an example. A white woman is waiting for the elevator. When it finally arrives and the door opens, there was one other person inside, an African American male. When she sees who it is, she steps back and lets the door close to wait for another elevator.
What would you have done? I know that in an average situation I would step inside and go where I needed to go but, if was, say, the middle of the night, in an almost empty parking garage and there was no one else in sight, I would probably just take the stairs. I would do the same thing if any male were there. I don't consider that a racist reaction, do you?
Please don't pound me with negative comments, just thinking through situation and I'd never heard the term micro-aggressions.
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Post by Merge on Sept 26, 2020 15:17:21 GMT
Yes, I consider that a micro-aggression. I’d get in the elevator. A black man is no more dangerous to me than any other man.
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Deleted
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May 6, 2024 3:32:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2020 15:24:58 GMT
Of course it's a micro aggression and I'm very surprised that you've never heard the term before.
I'd get in the lift, I don't live my life thinking that all men are out to cause me harm.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Sept 26, 2020 15:26:23 GMT
That's actually something that created a very interesting discussion a few years ago - I can't remember the media source however. But Questlove, the musician, was discussing this very same micro aggression and how often it happens to him and women pushed back a bit and said: "you don't understand how vulnerable we feel in an elevator alone with any man, of any race." I'll see if I can find it - it was interesting. But you're right. I will tell you one micro aggression that I know POC face regularly - when they are standing on a corner and a car comes to a light and they hear the automatic locks click.
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Post by ~summer~ on Sept 26, 2020 15:27:03 GMT
I feel “micro-aggression” is a fairly common term now. I’d say 95% of the time I’d just get in elevator. Only if I got a strong “scary” vibe (for lack of a better word) would I not get in and I’d like to think that is regardless of race. But I have mild panic attacks every now and then when I feel cornered or scared....I once had to get up and leave a classroom when I could see this “ odd” boy outside looking in the window. (He was a young whole “edited to young white lol” boy) for some reason I had this reaction that he was going to be a school shooter and I had to quickly leave the classroom! Strange.
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 26, 2020 15:37:59 GMT
During the day time I get into any elevator, it doesn’t matter who else is in there.
Night time is a different story. I’m only getting into an elevator with a woman if I am alone, and inside is someone I don’t know. It could be a white guy, a black guy, a brown guy, a purple guy, a green guy, of a red guy. I’m not getting in with him. I do not trust men, and am more leery of them at night. #notsorry
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Post by sweetshabbyroses on Sept 26, 2020 15:40:21 GMT
From now on I'm going to do some real soul searching on actions that I take out of habit that might be micro aggressions. Another crazy thought. I live in a rural area. Everyone knows everyone. Because of Covid, I really don't leave the house much. Very seldom (maybe one or twice a month) do I come in contact with a person (of any race) that I don't know. I wonder if that makes me more reluctant in a "elevator scenario)?
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Post by Merge on Sept 26, 2020 16:14:36 GMT
From now on I'm going to do some real soul searching on actions that I take out of habit that might be micro aggressions. Another crazy thought. I live in a rural area. Everyone knows everyone. Because of Covid, I really don't leave the house much. Very seldom (maybe one or twice a month) do I come in contact with a person (of any race) that I don't know. I wonder if that makes me more reluctant in a "elevator scenario)? I get that COVID makes tight space scenarios a little different. Personally, if I’m unlikely to get in the elevator if there’s another person in it, I’ll just go ahead and take the stairs to avoid that awkward moment. A common one that friends have shared is the tendency for white women to cross the street if they see a black man or especially a group of black men approaching. Again, COVID makes this awkward. People are always crossing the street to avoid breathing on anyone else. Not sure what the answer there is.
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Post by Zee on Sept 26, 2020 16:32:03 GMT
IDK, I don't find black men as scary as white men to be honest. I never have.
But I also wouldn't be keen to get in an elevator late at night in an empty parking garage with anyone.
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Post by misadventurous on Sept 26, 2020 17:25:42 GMT
This is such an interesting question. How many times on this board have we seen it discussed about how women are taught to be nice and polite and accommodating and not to offend anyone and how that sometimes leads us into situations that we wouldn't be in if we trusted our instincts?
I think the elevator example is actually a terrible one because so many women feel uncomfortable getting into one with a lone man of any race depending on the circumstances (time of day, proximity to other people, etc.). They shouldn't necessarily be branded as committing a racial microagression for waiting for the next elevator.
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Post by tracyarts on Sept 26, 2020 18:42:41 GMT
Yep, it's a mixed message. We coach each other to trust our gut and pay attention to our intuition without second guessing it, referencing "The Gift of Fear" and other sources that talk about self-preservation instincts. That we shouldn't be afraid of acting on those feelings and we shouldn't worry about being considered "rude" or "sexist" while protecting ourselves because pausing to second guess the situation could mean the difference between safety and danger? But... not when the person who twigs our "something isn't right" sense is a POC? Because then, we have to step back, give pause, second guess and analyze our gut feeling to determine if it's a valid flash of intuition or a prejudice based microaggression, because while we shouldn't care about being thought of as rude or sexist, doing something that could be construed as racist is another matter entirely. Fuck that shit. And fuck the assholes who plant the seed of self-doubt in women's minds. This is such an interesting question. How many times on this board have we seen it discussed about how women are taught to be nice and polite and accommodating and not to offend anyone and how that sometimes leads us into situations that we wouldn't be in if we trusted our instincts? I think the elevator example is actually a terrible one because so many women feel uncomfortable getting into one with a lone man of any race depending on the circumstances (time of day, proximity to other people, etc.). They shouldn't necessarily be branded as committing a racial microagression for waiting for the next elevator.
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Post by flanz on Sept 26, 2020 19:02:59 GMT
I don't care what color they are... I wouldn't get in the elevator with just one other man inside. I get creeped out.
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Post by Merge on Sept 26, 2020 19:10:40 GMT
Yep, it's a mixed message. We coach each other to trust our gut and pay attention to our intuition without second guessing it, referencing "The Gift of Fear" and other sources that talk about self-preservation instincts. That we shouldn't be afraid of acting on those feelings and we shouldn't worry about being considered "rude" or "sexist" while protecting ourselves because pausing to second guess the situation could mean the difference between safety and danger? But... not when the person who twigs our "something isn't right" sense is a POC? Because then, we have to step back, give pause, second guess and analyze our gut feeling to determine if it's a valid flash of intuition or a prejudice based microaggression, because while we shouldn't care about being thought of as rude or sexist, doing something that could be construed as racist is another matter entirely. Fuck that shit. And fuck the assholes who plant the seed of self-doubt in women's minds. This is such an interesting question. How many times on this board have we seen it discussed about how women are taught to be nice and polite and accommodating and not to offend anyone and how that sometimes leads us into situations that we wouldn't be in if we trusted our instincts? I think the elevator example is actually a terrible one because so many women feel uncomfortable getting into one with a lone man of any race depending on the circumstances (time of day, proximity to other people, etc.). They shouldn't necessarily be branded as committing a racial microagression for waiting for the next elevator. I hear what you’re saying. I don’t think anyone is asking women to second-guess themselves in the moment, but perhaps do a little soul searching when not in a threatening situation about whether their instincts tend to ping them more often about people of color than about white people. I read The Gift of Fear years ago, and thought it completely sidestepped the fact that fear is often borne from unfamiliarity or prejudice rather than any real threat. If your ‘instincts’ are constantly telling you that black and brown people are dangerous, or that a gay male teacher is more likely to molest your child than a straight female one, it might be worth doing some research to find out if your fears are based in reality. It takes a brave person to be honest with themselves about this. And if someone’s fears are based in real, traumatic experience, they have my deepest sympathy, and I sincerely hope they’re able to get the help they need to feel better about the world they live in.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Sept 26, 2020 19:11:07 GMT
As others have said, it’s a very bad example. Depending on where I am, and the proximity of other people, I would get on the elevator in some instances and not in others. Not getting on has nothing to do with race and everything to do with gender.
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Post by sam9 on Sept 26, 2020 19:15:57 GMT
If I was taking an elevator alone, late at night, and knew in advance that I was going to be screening who I was willing to ride with, I wouldn’t be taking an elevator at all. In general, I am not afraid of anyone in an elevator. I just smile, get in, and nod hello. I figure that a person in an elevator is a normal situation and it doesn’t suggest dangerous behaviour to me.
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Post by Merge on Sept 26, 2020 19:16:51 GMT
This is such an interesting question. How many times on this board have we seen it discussed about how women are taught to be nice and polite and accommodating and not to offend anyone and how that sometimes leads us into situations that we wouldn't be in if we trusted our instincts? I think the elevator example is actually a terrible one because so many women feel uncomfortable getting into one with a lone man of any race depending on the circumstances (time of day, proximity to other people, etc.). They shouldn't necessarily be branded as committing a racial microagression for waiting for the next elevator. I hear you, and it is an interesting question. I just want to say, though, that “branded as committing a micro aggression” is a bit strong. I think prevailing thought is that microagressions are unintentional and it’s just something to be aware of.
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moodyblue
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Sept 26, 2020 19:32:18 GMT
If I was taking an elevator alone, late at night, and knew in advance that I was going to be screening who I was willing to ride with, I wouldn’t be taking an elevator at all. In general, I am not afraid of anyone in an elevator. I just smile, get in, and nod hello. I figure that a person in an elevator is a normal situation and it doesn’t suggest dangerous behaviour to me. Come on. Taking a dark stairwell is better? I refuse to stay home just because it is night time. However, day or night, I pay attention to people around me whether close or peripheral. We are given intelligence for a reason. We are also given kindness and empathy and we develop judgement. I think I read something recently about a stairwell being the most dangerous place, more than an elevator. The advice was to avoid stairwells, especially alone and at night.
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Post by sam9 on Sept 26, 2020 19:32:18 GMT
If I was taking an elevator alone, late at night, and knew in advance that I was going to be screening who I was willing to ride with, I wouldn’t be taking an elevator at all. In general, I am not afraid of anyone in an elevator. I just smile, get in, and nod hello. I figure that a person in an elevator is a normal situation and it doesn’t suggest dangerous behaviour to me. Come on. Taking a dark stairwell is better? I refuse to stay home just because it is night time. However, day or night, I pay attention to people around me whether close or peripheral. We are given intelligence for a reason. We are also given kindness and empathy and we develop judgement. No, I would just take the elevator. I can’t think of many places where I would be taking an elevator alone at night - just my office building that is a secure building and maybe a hospital - so I would never think in advance of screening the passengers.
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Post by nlwilkins on Sept 26, 2020 19:38:05 GMT
For me it is a bad example cause most stairways I have come in contact with are scarier than the elevator. They are deserted, narrow and many time badly lit.
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julie5
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by julie5 on Sept 26, 2020 19:42:37 GMT
It would literally never occur to me to notice who was in an elevator. I would never let one pass me unless it was full. And that’s not micro-that’s macro imo. Extremely rude. ETA I generally carry myself in an aggressive way when out in public anyways. And not much scrares me. After getting the shit knocked out of me by people I was married to, strangers don’t bother me. You might get away with robbing me but you’ll be bloody.
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Gennifer
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Jun 26, 2014 8:22:26 GMT
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Post by Gennifer on Sept 26, 2020 20:21:42 GMT
I mean, I don’t really see being in an elevator with a man as particularly dangerous.
Statistically, I’m far likelier to be sexually assaulted by someone I know, right? How often are people being attacked in an elevator? It just seems really... paranoid and over the top?
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Post by anxiousmom on Sept 26, 2020 20:25:16 GMT
Interesting question. I work in a building with a number of state agencies including the parole office. I never know who I’m riding the elevator with. One can often guess based on body language, but considering the fact that parolees are not all one race or gender you don’t know.
But in my office building I have never been concerned or fearful.
Late at night? Alone? In an area I don’t know well? I might skip riding the elevator with any man (or woman) that gives me pause. I’m don’t think I would consider it micro-aggression if I don’t hesitate to ride the elevator with anyone in a known environment.
ETA: meaning that in that known environment there is a good chance I’m already riding with a known convicted criminal.
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RedSquirrelUK
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Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Sept 26, 2020 21:22:27 GMT
I wouldn't be getting into a lift with anyone at the moment.
I'm getting to the point where I don't want to go out at all. I'm wary of men, women and teenagers of any colour and I'm scared of Covid, and my childhood fear of dogs has come back.
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Post by librarylady on Sept 26, 2020 21:40:17 GMT
A few months ago (probably now a year) I hopped on the elevator at 14th floor and began the trip down. About 2 stops later I thought, "Huh, it is just me and this black man.) I didn't feel threatened. It was a medical bldg if that matters to the story. We made the entire trip with no others in the car. As others have said, I don't like to be one on one in an elevator with any male.
50 years ago (yikes, it was that long ago) I was in college and got on the elevator. The university had an elevator operator who was a man, probably in his 50s at the time and I thought he was mentally slow. Don't know that for sure, but that was the impression I had. This particular day it was cold and I had on tights that were almost flesh colored. The door closed, he looked at me, and then bent over and put both hands around my leg from the knee down and ran his hands down my leg! I was horrified. When the elevator car stopped, he just stepped back to his place. I have always thought he was curious about the color of my legs that day. Even though he really frightened me I have always thought he was just curious about "what is on her legs?" It all happened real fast (only 3 floors in that bldg) but I never rode the elevator alone again. I was stunned. I never told anyone this story until today. If it matters, he was white as am I.
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Post by Zee on Sept 26, 2020 21:46:33 GMT
Are there women who won't get in an elevator alone with a man even if it's a well-populated place? Because in those circumstances I'm not worried at all.
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lindas
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Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Sept 26, 2020 21:46:49 GMT
For those of you that wouldn't get on the elevator with a man there what would you do if a man get on on the next floor? Do you get off and wait?
When DH was at the VA hospital I didn’t care who was on the elevator. Those elevators took forever and waiting for an empty one was impossible. Now the one I had to use for the parking garage was a different story. That one gave me pause mainly because it was going to a virtually empty garage in the evening. That’s not to say I didn’t get on it but my senses were in overdrive until I got to the car.
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julie5
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Post by julie5 on Sept 26, 2020 22:02:04 GMT
It would literally never occur to me to notice who was in an elevator. I would never let one pass me unless it was full. And that’s not micro-that’s macro imo. Extremely rude. ETA I generally carry myself in an aggressive way when out in public anyways. And not much scrares me. After getting the shit knocked out of me by people I was married to, strangers don’t bother me. You might get away with robbing me but you’ll be bloody. Well you are behaving like a fool then. And if the person robbing you has a gun, a dead fool. But you do you. Oh yes you’re absolutely right. I should just blindly based on skin color. I’m totally foolish.
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Post by peasapie on Sept 26, 2020 22:20:16 GMT
I lived in an elevator building and am used to getting into elevators with single men inside. It wouldn't affect me, no matter what their race. I think people who aren't used to elevators are more reluctant to get into them with a single man. I also think that people who aren't used to a mixed race environment are more afraid to be with someone of another race. It's human nature to be afraid of people who seem different than us, and the cure is more exposure to all kinds of people.
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Post by pierkiss on Sept 26, 2020 23:59:51 GMT
For those of you that wouldn't get on the elevator with a man there what would you do if a man get on on the next floor? Do you get off and wait? When DH was at the VA hospital I didn’t care who was on the elevator. Those elevators took forever and waiting for an empty one was impossible. Now the one I had to use for the parking garage was a different story. That one gave me pause mainly because it was going to a virtually empty garage in the evening. That’s not to say I didn’t get on it but my senses were in overdrive until I got to the car. If I felt uncomfortable I would absolutely get off the next chance I got. Past trauma heavily influences my actions around men, and I don’t feel safe around most of them.
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CeeScraps
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~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
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Jun 26, 2014 12:56:40 GMT
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Post by CeeScraps on Sept 27, 2020 0:34:31 GMT
I have a history with this.....
In college I lived in a dorm that was connected underground with 2 other dorms. Back then you had girls dorms and guys dorms. I think it was 1 girl and 2 guy dorms. Anyhow, I had gotten into an empty elevator to go to my room. As the door was closing a young black man (probably my age) got in. I did not make any eye contact with him. I figured he was going to visit someone.
Well, in the elevator he touched me. I said nothing. I silently prayed that I’d get off before there was a bigger problem. I did.....I did not comment, nor look back at the guy. I honestly couldn’t tell you if I ever saw him again. I just know that getting into an elevator with any stranger since then is a challenge for me.
So, what would I do. I would not get on. If I was on I don’t know what I’d do because so many places have doors locked to get onto floors.
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