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Post by Merge on Oct 12, 2020 18:52:02 GMT
I don't mean to be argumentative---but, wouldn't a professional stage presentation or movie of any other culture then be racist? ..so that movie South Pacific would be a racist movie? I guess it falls into the pile of "we watched these and didn't realize it was a racist story" Yes, several classic musicals and movies are are cringing-ly racist and/or sexist. The King and I is another. Modern professional productions generally get permission with the production rights to leave out or alter certain parts for today’s audiences.
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Post by SockMonkey on Oct 12, 2020 19:06:53 GMT
Here is an actual indigenous person's perspective: www.todaysparent.com/family/parenting/why-are-parents-so-defensive-about-play-teepees/Some questions posed by the author: "Overcoming centuries of cultural appropriation may seem scary, but when you reframe your thinking to focus on respect and consent instead of immediate outrage, it all becomes much easier. Is someone from this culture choosing to share their culture with me? Or is an unrelated group or corporation selling this culture to me? If we really appreciate these cultures, we need to respect the actual people who have upheld and nurtured them for centuries. We need to respect their right to say no and share their culture on their own, more meaningful terms."But if one looks at the history of dwellings, you find poles and fabric/hide covering all around the world for thousands of years - even the specific tipi design is common in nomadic tribes on other continents. Comparing it to a specific medal is just not a apples to apples comparison - I'd agree that using something like a headdress or other specific symbol is completely different. And I imagine there are multitudes of decorations and jewelry inspired by the Victorian Cross. I'm not here to argue about the history of dwellings, tents, etc. I simply presented the perspective of an actual indigenous person in regards to this very question. If you choose to dismiss that perspective, that's something you need to sit with.
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Post by grammadee on Oct 12, 2020 19:09:59 GMT
Why wouldn’t the mom take this opportunity to do some research about the cultural teachings of the tipi and use that to teach her child some cultural appreciation. You get to be a racist by never learning positive things about people’s other than your own.
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Post by PolarGreen12 on Oct 12, 2020 19:17:17 GMT
I had to google what a tipi is? Are you/they referring to the Samantha Tipi Laos doll or a teepee tent? ETA: Tent. I had no idea some people actually spell it teepee. I’ve only seen tipi. It depends on the region. Technically it’s thipi from the Lakota tribe. English language and the changes we do words from other languages have turned it into tipi, tepee, and teepee.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 3,165
Jun 25, 2014 21:50:33 GMT
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Oct 12, 2020 19:35:47 GMT
So, I always liked the look of those cool tipis in the catalog, but I steered clear because I have tried to steer clear of appropriation for many years.
However, my kids did have a tipi type homemade structure from the 80's that was given to them by their daycare provider. Sure, it had a tipi-like frame, but it was made out of old denim--no Native American imagery or the like. IDK, I guess at some point something loses its traditional impact and just looks like any other fort-like thingamabob.
I really do listen to the opinions of indigenous people and people of marginalized cultures, but they don't have one voice on this, and there really is a lot of grey area on this. Some things are quite obviously appropriation or inappropriate (sacred items being used as costumes and props), but knowing where appreciation starts and stops is much messier.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Oct 12, 2020 19:42:28 GMT
But if one looks at the history of dwellings, you find poles and fabric/hide covering all around the world for thousands of years - even the specific tipi design is common in nomadic tribes on other continents. Comparing it to a specific medal is just not a apples to apples comparison - I'd agree that using something like a headdress or other specific symbol is completely different. And I imagine there are multitudes of decorations and jewelry inspired by the Victorian Cross. I'm not here to argue about the history of dwellings, tents, etc. I simply presented the perspective of an actual indigenous person in regards to this very question. If you choose to dismiss that perspective, that's something you need to sit with. I find it ironic that the perspective is from a tribe who never even used tipis. She's frankly appropriating the entire discussion for her own purposes - and to make a pretty poor analogy. I mean really at least my ancestors actually lived in tipis.
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Post by workingclassdog on Oct 12, 2020 19:53:38 GMT
Like those ones sold at Target? I am not getting that. I think of it as the same as a dwelling like a house, a camper, a tent, an igloo, or when kids put up blankets for forts. It's a dwelling.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Oct 12, 2020 19:54:48 GMT
However, my kids did have a tipi type homemade structure from the 80's that was given to them by their daycare provider. Sure, it had a tipi-like frame, but it was made out of old denim--no Native American imagery or the like. IDK, I guess at some point something loses its traditional impact and just looks like any other fort-like thingamabob. I really do listen to the opinions of indigenous people and people of marginalized cultures, but they don't have one voice on this, and there really is a lot of grey area on this. Some things are quite obviously appropriation or inappropriate (sacred items being used as costumes and props), but knowing where appreciation starts and stops is much messier.^^^ this.
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Post by questioning on Oct 12, 2020 20:00:39 GMT
A tipi is a type of shelter. Would you think a castle is racist? It could just as easily be an educational toy to talk about the structures used for housing before our typical western homes were developed. And good grief, let them know that in most cultures not every child has their own room.
I can't wait to read all thoughts.
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Post by questioning on Oct 12, 2020 20:02:01 GMT
My opinion. This has gotten ridiculous. At some point, I am expecting someone to say, it's NOT okay to make tacos unless you're a Mexican. And it's certainly NOT ok to celebrate Cinco de Mayo or Day of the Dead. LOL, in that case you'll find me at the newest basement speakeasy taqueria.
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Post by melodyesch on Oct 12, 2020 21:37:25 GMT
Is it cultural appropriation to cook or eat food that is traditionally from other cultures/countries? and I have a tikka masala simmer sauce in my pantry that I just bought from trader joes... I'm going to make it later this week, and eat it with naan bread. I hope anyone who's Indian is okay with that. Interesting enough, tikka masala is widely believed to be of British origin. I guess so the Brits could drown their chicken tikka in gravy. Either way, yum.
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Post by workingclassdog on Oct 12, 2020 21:43:40 GMT
A tipi is a type of shelter. Would you think a castle is racist? It could just as easily be an educational toy to talk about the structures used for housing before our typical western homes were developed. And good grief, let them know that in most cultures not every child has their own room. I can't wait to read all thoughts. That is what my thoughts were.. it's a place of shelter.. house, castle, igloo, tent, camper, adobe, the list is long.
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Post by Zee on Oct 12, 2020 21:46:37 GMT
Are we not allowed to stay in those state park yurts either? I mean, I'm more likely to have native American ancestry than Mongolian.
Actually i have a several times great, plains Indian grandmother, so is it ok to have a teepee?
If I'm camping in the back woods and i build a teepee type structure, am i in the wrong?
There needs to be some common sense in this whole thing. I'm not asking to wear an eagle feather headdress. Come on.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Oct 12, 2020 21:53:20 GMT
I’ve never seen it spelled tipi. Even on the actual product in stores around here it’s spelled teepee.
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Post by katlady on Oct 12, 2020 22:27:21 GMT
I’ve never seen it spelled tipi. Even on the actual product in stores around here it’s spelled teepee. I do crossword puzzles and it is either "tepee" or "teepee". I've never seen "tipi".
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muggins
Pearl Clutcher
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Jul 30, 2017 3:38:57 GMT
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Post by muggins on Oct 12, 2020 22:32:33 GMT
My understanding of cultural appropriation is when a group of people who have been victimised, stripped of their rights, faced disease and/or violence, destruction of their property, seizing of their land, suffered slavery, marginalisation, racism, etc, then the people who have done that to them, take parts of their culture and use it for fun, fashion, to perpetuate stereotypes, or for financial gain. It’s just continued disrespect.
However, I also think sometimes there’s a fine line between cultural appropriation and appreciation. There’s a lot of grey area.
Recently Adele posted a photo on Instagram wearing Bantu knots and a Jamaican flag bikini top to celebrate what would have been Notting Hill Carnival in London (cancelled due to Covid). She was dragged my many people who felt it was appropriation, since Black Women’s hair has not been seen as ‘acceptable’ in white culture. While other Black women felt it was fine for her to join in celebrating Black culture with that hairstyle.
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kelly8875
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Oct 26, 2014 17:02:56 GMT
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Post by kelly8875 on Oct 12, 2020 22:47:24 GMT
Having a teepee is not racist IMO. No more racist than if I wanted to enjoy tamales or enchiladas. 🤦🏻♀️
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Post by shessoaverage on Oct 12, 2020 22:55:07 GMT
I don't mean to be argumentative---but, wouldn't a professional stage presentation or movie of any other culture then be racist? ..so that movie South Pacific would be a racist movie? I guess it falls into the pile of "we watched these and didn't realize it was a racist story" The theme of South Pacific is literally anti-racism. A song that’s one of the emotional and dramatic highlights of the show: You've got to be taught To hate and fear, You've got to be taught From year to year, It's got to be drummed In your dear little ear You've got to be carefully taught. You've got to be taught to be afraid Of people whose eyes are oddly made, And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade, You've got to be carefully taught. You've got to be taught before it's too late, Before you are six or seven or eight, To hate all the people your relatives hate, You've got to be carefully taught! Oscar Hammerstein II
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:53:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2020 22:55:12 GMT
A tipi is a type of shelter. Would you think a castle is racist? It could just as easily be an educational toy to talk about the structures used for housing before our typical western homes were developed. And good grief, let them know that in most cultures not every child has their own room. I can't wait to read all thoughts. That is what my thoughts were.. it's a place of shelter.. house, castle, igloo, tent, camper, adobe, the list is long. This is my thought. OTOH the person in the OP can make their own decision about using the tipi. But then be brave enough to be thoughtfully honest with MIL instead of lying about not having the space. Instead, MIL is probably not aware of your feelings about appropriating NA culture and is obviously hurt.
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Post by Really Red on Oct 12, 2020 22:55:59 GMT
However, my kids did have a tipi type homemade structure from the 80's that was given to them by their daycare provider. Sure, it had a tipi-like frame, but it was made out of old denim--no Native American imagery or the like. IDK, I guess at some point something loses its traditional impact and just looks like any other fort-like thingamabob. I really do listen to the opinions of indigenous people and people of marginalized cultures, but they don't have one voice on this, and there really is a lot of grey area on this. Some things are quite obviously appropriation or inappropriate (sacred items being used as costumes and props), but knowing where appreciation starts and stops is much messier.^^^ this. I agree. I definitely think this is a very difficult area, but at some point We have to say enough. I got scolded by someone here on the board because I wear hoop earrings and it’s a cultural appropriation. I think that’s taking things a bit too far. I think a teepee is fine. For heaven sake’s, I live near a reservation and you can buy all of those things right in their gift stores. For whom are they marketing this? I think when you’re using cultural things disrespectfully it’s not OK.
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Post by Zee on Oct 12, 2020 23:04:26 GMT
I agree. I definitely think this is a very difficult area, but at some point We have to say enough. I got scolded by someone here on the board because I wear hoop earrings and it’s a cultural appropriation. I think that’s taking things a bit too far. I think a teepee is fine. For heaven sake’s, I live near a reservation and you can buy all of those things right in their gift stores. For whom are they marketing this? I think when you’re using cultural things disrespectfully it’s not OK. Literally every culture on Earth has worn earrings and most of those include hoops and you will pry mine out of my cold dead ears. Been wearing them since I was 14. Maybe I need to dig up a pair of celtic gold hoops from a bog to prove it's ok? People need to be reasonable. I'm not going to tell women of color they can't have straight blonde hair or accept that white women can't wear braids. It's fashion. We like what we like. (Braids are also an ancient Celtic thing, but I do understand the difference here and where that sentiment comes from. I just don't like the idea of telling someone what they can or can't do with their hair on their own bodies.)
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Post by meridon on Oct 13, 2020 1:03:34 GMT
Oh the irony of this post being on Indigenous Peoples' Day... I vote cultural appropriation and not okay.
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Post by epeanymous on Oct 13, 2020 1:17:13 GMT
I think cultural appropriation is complicated. It's not respectful to wear an oppressed people's culture as a costume, but I think a lot of other things can be fine. I don't have a strong opinion about this particular item, however spelled.
I have super strong opinions about someone gifting you something and then hassling you because you're not sending them pictures of your kid playing in it or otherwise aren't using it the way they deem appropriate, but that's probably another thread.
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StephDRebel
Drama Llama

Posts: 6,718
Location: Ohio
Jul 5, 2014 1:53:49 GMT
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Post by StephDRebel on Oct 13, 2020 1:21:52 GMT
When I first saw the little fabric tepees I thought they were adorable and it being racist didn't cross my mind. Then someone told me that they felt kind of offended by them and why. I wouldn't buy one or have one in my home. If i'm doing something that hurts someone else it's easy enough to just not do it/use it/ display it.
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Post by maryland on Oct 13, 2020 1:36:40 GMT
This is such a grey area for me I don’t know where I stand. In Japan, foreigners can rent a kimono and walk around the city in them. Is that appreciation or appropriation? As a child, I was fascinated by the Native American culture. I would have loved a teepee. Was that racist of me? If you really like something, say a hair style, from another culture is that appreciation or appropriation? Like I said, it is a grey area for me especially since we are exposed to so many cultures now. I was too, and my Dad built me a teepee. Now I remember that it was for a play we did at our elementary school. After the play I played in the teepee in our yard. I completely forgot about that! I was so interested in other cultures and learning other languages as a child.
My kids elementary school always did a 1st grade Thanksgiving play where half of the students dressed up like Pilgrims and half like Native Americans. My kids are in college and high school now, but I think they still do the play every Thanksgiving.
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Post by librarylady on Oct 13, 2020 1:55:55 GMT
This is such a grey area for me I don’t know where I stand. In Japan, foreigners can rent a kimono and walk around the city in them. Is that appreciation or appropriation? As a child, I was fascinated by the Native American culture. I would have loved a teepee. Was that racist of me? If you really like something, say a hair style, from another culture is that appreciation or appropriation? Like I said, it is a grey area for me especially since we are exposed to so many cultures now. I was too, and my Dad built me a teepee. Now I remember that it was for a play we did at our elementary school. After the play I played in the teepee in our yard. I completely forgot about that! I was so interested in other cultures and learning other languages as a child.
My kids elementary school always did a 1st grade Thanksgiving play where half of the students dressed up like Pilgrims and half like Native Americans. My kids are in college and high school now, but I think they still do the play every Thanksgiving.
The elementary schools around here were doing this as recently as 2010. Is that a bad thing?
I am white, with blonde hair. I always wanted to try the bead in braided hair--just because and to see how I would look. One day I was talking with a black teacher who had just had her hair done that way and I expressed my desire to do the same. She encouraged me to do it and said she could give me the name of the lady who did her braids. I was 60 at the time and thought I was too old for that, so never did. .........apparently there is one black lady who thought it would have been OK. (or else she wanted a big laugh, IDK)
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:53:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2020 2:31:25 GMT
On one hand, I feel like I shouldn't be able to answer because I'm not a member of the group that could feel offended in this instance.
On the other hand, at some point, don't the inventions and ideas of ANY people group contribute to the global intellect at some point? If they happen to have invented the best way to make a tent, why shouldn't the world be able to partake in that at some point? Isn't that how all development advances ultimately?
I think it's one thing to appropriate something like a religious symbol or dress or rite. There is no reason someone not partaking in that religion needs to use that. But something like a style of home? I guess I don't understand the logic of "we invented it, no one else can ever use it."
But like I said, I realize I'm not first person to this discussion so my opinion has large room for error. I do choose not to have them in our home out of respect, but I don't agree with the premise.
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Post by AussieMeg on Oct 13, 2020 4:30:42 GMT
On one hand, I feel like I shouldn't be able to answer because I'm not a member of the group that could feel offended in this instance. That's what I would like to preface my comments with, too. I am at a loss to see how having a tent for your kids to play in could possibly be considered racist or even cultural appropriation. But as Jen said, I am not a member of the group who could feel offended, so maybe my opinion on the matter is just my white privilege showing through. FWIW, someone gave my son a fabulous teepee when he was a little boy (so probably 14 years ago). The kids played in that thing all the time, and we had it set up permanently in the lounge room for quite a while. It never for one split second crossed my mind that it was not okay. Maybe I would have been more aware of the implications if I lived in the US where Native Americans live. Then again, 14 years ago cultural appropriation wasn't really a thing. I mean, it was a thing, but not something talked about like it is today. We weren't as "woke" as we are now. Thinking about it some more, just before I hit the reply button..... I would never in a million years buy a mass produced didgeridoo or boomerang or Aboriginal art that was not made or painted by an Indigenous Australian. Perhaps it's the same thing?
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Post by sam9 on Oct 13, 2020 4:50:48 GMT
I don't think that items like hoop earrings or kimonos or tacos, are in the same category as a teepee. They're simply things from other cultures. Asians, Africans and Mexicans are no where near to being minorities within their own countries/continents.
But for those who think that teepees cross the line, do you also think that snow forts that children build in the winter are borderline? What about ice bars in Scandinavia and Winter Carnival in Québec City? I went to high school that had a large population of Native Americans, many of whom are still friends of mine today. I would never dishonour them.
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Post by PolarGreen12 on Oct 13, 2020 5:00:19 GMT
I was too, and my Dad built me a teepee. Now I remember that it was for a play we did at our elementary school. After the play I played in the teepee in our yard. I completely forgot about that! I was so interested in other cultures and learning other languages as a child.
My kids elementary school always did a 1st grade Thanksgiving play where half of the students dressed up like Pilgrims and half like Native Americans. My kids are in college and high school now, but I think they still do the play every Thanksgiving.
The elementary schools around here were doing this as recently as 2010. Is that a bad thing?
I am white, with blonde hair. I always wanted to try the bead in braided hair--just because and to see how I would look. One day I was talking with a black teacher who had just had her hair done that way and I expressed my desire to do the same. She encouraged me to do it and said she could give me the name of the lady who did her braids. I was 60 at the time and thought I was too old for that, so never did. .........apparently there is one black lady who thought it would have been OK. (or else she wanted a big laugh, IDK)
Just because one person of color told you to get your hair done that way doesn’t mean that as a collective that black persons would agree with that. If you’re interested in learning about black hair culture and the important role it plays in WOC life, there’s a great book by Phoebe Robinson - You Can’t Touch My Hair
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