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Post by wendifful on Dec 10, 2020 3:27:54 GMT
I've always been curious about how 12x12 became the industry standard for scrapbook paper! I started getting into papercrafting around 2005 or 2006 and by that point, 12x12 seemed pretty widespread. I'm hoping some of the Peas who have been scrapping for a long time can chime in. Did one company start making 12x12 and others followed? How long did it take to become popular? And why 12x12? Was it because the dimensions work well with 4x6 photos (two across or three down) or was there another reason?
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Post by Night Owl on Dec 10, 2020 4:27:23 GMT
What I used to dislike was when scrapbook companies made paper that was just short of the 12x12 size like Creative Memories who stuck to the 11 3/4 size between jeeping for way too long.
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Post by ScrapbookMyLife on Dec 10, 2020 8:24:01 GMT
I started scrapbooking in fall of 1996 and 8.5 x 11 was the size of the paper back then. I still use 8.5 x 11, but I buy 12 x 12 and cut it down.
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breetheflea
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Posts: 5,849
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Post by breetheflea on Dec 10, 2020 15:20:17 GMT
I thought it was something to do with how they cut the paper at the paper factory, and 12 by 12 ends up with less waste, but I have no idea if that's true or not...
My first scrapbook was a Susan Branch kit that came with the album and paper and it was 8.5 by 11 (in 2004) but I was buying 12 by 12 "Slabs" at Michael's in 2002.
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Post by gizzy on Dec 10, 2020 15:38:59 GMT
Hmm, I'm not sure how it started. When I started scrapbooking 8 1/2x11 was the norm. This was the time around when the brand me & my big ideas was popular. When it changed to 12x12 I changed over to that size. It's easier for me to scrapbook, it gives me more real estate to work with.
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Post by joblackford on Dec 10, 2020 18:08:39 GMT
That's a really good question! It makes sense to connect it with the 4x6 photo size, except if you put the maximum number of 4x6s on a page you can't see any paper at all! So actually 13" square would make more sense. I'm going to guess that it's something to do with paper manufacture but I really don't know.
I'm also not sure why Letter sized paper is the size it is either. A4 is similar, but slightly different in its ratio of height to width. At least the A3 A4 A5 systems make internal sense. A2 folded in half is A3, A3 folded in half gives you A4, A4 folded in half is A5, etc etc. Metric, man. I miss it.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Dec 10, 2020 19:13:08 GMT
Scrapbook.com's History of Scrapbooking mentions that 12x12 came to be in the 90s because of the 4x6 prints: Whether this is accurate is up for discussion but I'd (perhaps wrongly!) assume that a major retailer like SB.com would be aware of format change due to technical ease for manufacturers. I'm also not sure whether it makes sense to prefer 12x12 for manufacturing reasons when the bulk of the paper industry does not align with this standard. You decide.
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Post by papersilly on Dec 10, 2020 19:56:58 GMT
12 by 12 "Slabs" at Michael's in 2002. omg....those Slabs and Stacks! i can't believe how many of those i owned. almost every time one came out, i had to have it. truth be told, i still have a few of the solid colored sheets but the patterned and photo ones are have been gone for many years now.
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breetheflea
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Jul 20, 2014 21:57:23 GMT
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Post by breetheflea on Dec 10, 2020 20:13:18 GMT
12 by 12 "Slabs" at Michael's in 2002. omg....those Slabs and Stacks! i can't believe how many of those i owned. almost every time one came out, i had to have it. truth be told, i still have a few of the solid colored sheets but the patterned and photo ones are have been gone for many years now. I still have a few sheets from one of the slabs I'm hanging onto. After 18 years the perfect layout hasn't come along just yet. Someday...
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scrapnnana
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Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on Dec 10, 2020 20:26:09 GMT
I began scrapbooking in 1996. Creative Memories had 12x12 albums even back then. I think it was because it was suited to 4x6 photos. They didn’t care if patterned paper showed much. They were more about “get the photos in the albums, and get them journaled.” My former sister-in-law got me started scrapbooking. She had once been a Creative Memories rep, but wasn’t anymore by the time she got me hooked. She switched soon after to Close to My Heart, who also offered 12x12 albums. Her pages were gorgeous works of art. I think that’s one reason why she left Creative Memories. Anyway, both companies offered 12x12 albums back in the mid to late 1990’s.
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caangel
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Post by caangel on Dec 10, 2020 21:37:17 GMT
I began scrapbooking in 1996. Creative Memories had 12x12 albums even back then. I think it was because it was suited to 4x6 photos. They didn’t care if patterned paper showed much. They were more about “get the photos in the albums, and get them journaled.” My former sister-in-law got me started scrapbooking. She had once been a Creative Memories rep, but wasn’t anymore by the time she got me hooked. She switched soon after to Close to My Heart, who also offered 12x12 albums. Her pages were gorgeous works of art. I think that’s one reason why she left Creative Memories. Anyway, both companies offered 12x12 albums back in the mid to late 1990’s. But the CM albums back then were not 12x12 but 12x11.75 or something. It was a big deal when they finally switched to true 12x12.
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Post by honeypea on Dec 11, 2020 2:14:52 GMT
I started scrapbooking in 1996 and paper was mostly 8.5 x 11. I remember when the 12x12 started taking up more racks in the little local scrap store.
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Post by cmpeter on Dec 11, 2020 2:47:23 GMT
I started scrapping in 1994. I switched over to 12x12 in 2000...mostly just because it had become so popular.
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Post by AussieMeg on Dec 11, 2020 4:37:20 GMT
I started scrapping in the late 90s, and my introduction was through CM. What a PITA it was having to trim every sheet of paper!! And then there was the added complication of being in Australia with our metric system. (Or should I say, the complication of the US not following the rest of the world with metric! ) The first Australian companies decided to go with 30cm x 30cm...... close but no cigar! The papers were just a bit too small, because 12 inches = 30.48cm. I can't remember how long it took for Australian scrapbook paper manufactures to give up metric and move to 12x12.
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cbscrapper
Pearl Clutcher
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Sept 5, 2015 18:24:10 GMT
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Post by cbscrapper on Dec 11, 2020 5:47:32 GMT
I remember K&Co made page protectors that were 11.75” instead of 12. That was so irritating to have to cut down the 12x12 paper all the time for it to fit.
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Post by Restless Spirit on Dec 11, 2020 16:07:08 GMT
I've been "scrapbooking" since back in the dark ages , I used albums of various non-standard sizes that had hard covers, 2 holes, bound with a string (so you could add pages) and the pages where a heavy cream color construction-type paper. (My grandmother and mother's were mostly black pages.). I mostly scrapbooked Ephemera - cards, invitations, newspaper clippings, school memorabilia and some pictures. (They were really more "Books of Scraps"). I loved that style of album. They are now considered taboo because they are not archival, plus if you want one, you will need to search for "vintage scrapbooks". LOL As a teenager, I used a Kodak Instamatic. I think that both the 110 and 126 film Instamatic film when processed resulted in a 3-1/2" x 5" print. By the time scrapbooking morphed into what it is now, I had a ton of 3-1/2" x 5" prints that spanned decades! That size was perfect for 8-1/2" x 11" scrapbooking. So, here's my theory: Scrapbooking appears to have started based on standard 8-1/2 x 11" paper that fits a standard 3-ring binder. That worked great for 3-1/2" x 5" photographs. With the explosion of modern day digital cameras (and then the iPhone!), photos were being printed in the 3:2 aspect ratio, which means a 4x6 print. I think the scrapbooking industry realized that the larger 12 x 12 size scrapbooks better accommodated the 4” x 6” photos. That's my theory. I'm probably wrong.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Dec 11, 2020 16:21:41 GMT
I started scrapping in the late 90s, and my introduction was through CM. What a PITA it was having to trim every sheet of paper!! And then there was the added complication of being in Australia with our metric system. (Or should I say, the complication of the US not following the rest of the world with metric! ) The first Australian companies decided to go with 30cm x 30cm...... close but no cigar! The papers were just a bit too small, because 12 inches = 30.48cm. I can't remember how long it took for Australian scrapbook paper manufactures to give up metric and move to 12x12. We’re just rebels like that! I remember the push to go metric in the 70s. I grew up in California and education had really gotten progressive in the 70s and it didn’t catch on at all. I don’t think people realize the cost to change something so ingrained in a culture in a country the size of the US. It’s not just educating the population it’s also changing every single road sign, mile marker, map, and that’s just for roads.
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sassyangel
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Post by sassyangel on Dec 11, 2020 17:05:26 GMT
I started scrapping in the late 90s, and my introduction was through CM. What a PITA it was having to trim every sheet of paper!! And then there was the added complication of being in Australia with our metric system. (Or should I say, the complication of the US not following the rest of the world with metric! ) The first Australian companies decided to go with 30cm x 30cm...... close but no cigar! The papers were just a bit too small, because 12 inches = 30.48cm. I can't remember how long it took for Australian scrapbook paper manufactures to give up metric and move to 12x12. We’re just rebels like that! I remember the push to go metric in the 70s. I grew up in California and education had really gotten progressive in the 70s and it didn’t catch on at all. I don’t think people realize the cost to change something so ingrained in a culture in a country the size of the US. It’s not just educating the population it’s also changing every single road sign, mile marker, map, and that’s just for roads. We had imperial till 1970 and did just that, changed everything. Four years earlier, we switched from pounds to dollar currency. We went the whole hog, lol. So it might just be that we’re ok with lots of radical change like that, though. 😂 I get imperial, and I can basically convert if I have to - but I hate it. Metric is so much easier to break down. It’s all in units of 10.
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Post by amp on Dec 12, 2020 1:36:41 GMT
I started scrapping in the late 90s, and my introduction was through CM. What a PITA it was having to trim every sheet of paper!! And then there was the added complication of being in Australia with our metric system. (Or should I say, the complication of the US not following the rest of the world with metric! ) The first Australian companies decided to go with 30cm x 30cm...... close but no cigar! The papers were just a bit too small, because 12 inches = 30.48cm. I can't remember how long it took for Australian scrapbook paper manufactures to give up metric and move to 12x12. We’re just rebels like that! I remember the push to go metric in the 70s. I grew up in California and education had really gotten progressive in the 70s and it didn’t catch on at all. I don’t think people realize the cost to change something so ingrained in a culture in a country the size of the US. It’s not just educating the population it’s also changing every single road sign, mile marker, map, and that’s just for roads. We must be about the same age. I remember in 6th or 7th grade, the teachers telling us that we better learn the metric system because in a few years, the US will be 100% metric...so I learned it...and in a few years...nothing happened. It's actually pretty easy since everything is just multiples of 10. Of course, when computers came around, we screwed it up even more...so a kilobyte is 1024 bytes...computers think in terms of multiples of 2...which makes sense...a byte is 2 cubed, and two, of course because electrical signals are either high or low...but still...couldn't we have used terminology that wasn't based on the metric system? ha!
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scrapnnana
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Post by scrapnnana on Dec 12, 2020 16:50:59 GMT
I began scrapbooking in 1996. Creative Memories had 12x12 albums even back then. I think it was because it was suited to 4x6 photos. They didn’t care if patterned paper showed much. They were more about “get the photos in the albums, and get them journaled.” My former sister-in-law got me started scrapbooking. She had once been a Creative Memories rep, but wasn’t anymore by the time she got me hooked. She switched soon after to Close to My Heart, who also offered 12x12 albums. Her pages were gorgeous works of art. I think that’s one reason why she left Creative Memories. Anyway, both companies offered 12x12 albums back in the mid to late 1990’s. But the CM albums back then were not 12x12 but 12x11.75 or something. It was a big deal when they finally switched to true 12x12. Yes, that is true. I’d forgotten that little detail, but they were still close to the 12x12, and better than the other options available. The 8.5x11 doesn’t allow for as many photos. I hated trimming card stock and patterned paper to fit the CM pages, but since photos were often (shudder!) cropped into shapes, you could fit a lot of photos on that 12x11.75 page (along with a good CM sticker sneeze). I didn’t stay with CM albums. They were a pain. I was a customer, not a rep, so I had no reason to be loyal. I switched as soon as my ex-SIL told me about the Close to My Heart albums (which I still use, but I’m not a rep for them, either). There may have been 12x12 magnetic albums prior to the CM albums. If so, it probably had to do with being sized to fit up to 6 (4x6) photos on a page, which was what the OP’s question was about. I think that the 12x12 format has been around for a longer time than most people realize, but it wasn’t the industry standard till the scrapping stores and magazines made it more popular. I think the manufacturers were the ones who pushed 12x12 to become the standard, but I don’t know if it was due to customer demand or the manufacturers and LSS trying to sell more products.
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Post by angel97701 on Dec 13, 2020 4:03:31 GMT
omg....those Slabs and Stacks! i can't believe how many of those i owned. almost every time one came out, i had to have it. truth be told, i still have a few of the solid colored sheets but the patterned and photo ones are have been gone for many years now. I still have a few sheets from one of the slabs I'm hanging onto. After 18 years the perfect layout hasn't come along just yet. Someday... Sometime last year I went through all my Hot Off the Press 12 x 12 books and organized them by style and color. I also have about 3 of the slabs that I go to occasionally and can find just the right patterned paper. They are all lighter weight so layering is easy.
Yes, that is true. I’d forgotten than little detail, but they were still close to the 12x12, and better than the other options available. The 8.5x11 doesn’t allow for as many photos. I hated trimming card stock and patterned paper to fit the CM pages, but since photos were often (shudder!) cropped into shapes, you could fit a lot of photos on that 12x11.75 page (along with a good CM sticker sneeze). I didn’t stay with CM albums. They were a pain. I was a customer, not a rep, so I had no reason to be loyal. I switched as soon as my ex-SIL told me about the Close to My Heart albums (which I still use, but I’m not a rep for them, either). There may have been 12x12 magnetic albums prior to the CM albums. If so, it probably had to do with being sized to fit up to 6 (4x6) photos on a page, which was what the OP’s question was about. I think that the 12x12 format has been around for a longer time than most people realize, but it wasn’t the industry standard till the scrapping stores and magazines made it more popular. I think the manufacturers were the ones who pushed 12x12 to become the standard, but I don’t know if it was due to customer demand or the manufacturers and LSS trying to sell more products.
I too have pages where the photos are cropped into shapes and I too shudder now! Oh yes the good CM sticker sneeze! This made me giggle for sure!
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Post by refugeepea on Dec 14, 2020 1:55:03 GMT
I went to my first scrapbook store in 1995 and not a 12x12 paper to be seen!
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scrapnnana
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Jun 29, 2014 18:58:47 GMT
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Post by scrapnnana on Dec 14, 2020 15:26:09 GMT
I went to my first scrapbook store in 1995 and not a 12x12 paper to be seen! I didn’t start scrapbooking till 1996. We had no LSS anywhere near me. It wasn’t until I visited another state before I got to shop at any LSS, so either late 96 or sometime in 97 at the earliest. I do remember well at least some of what they had: a selection of 8.5x11 decorative letter papers, like office supply stores sell, only you could buy it by the sheet instead of the ream; the same size white and colored card stock; cutesy notepad papers, such as you’d find in teachers supply stores, only by the sheet; pens for journaling and doodling; stickers; an Ellison press (die cut machine, not the roller style they have today) and dies that customers could use if they bought cardstock from the LSS to cut on it. Scrapbooking was pretty primitive in those days, when compared to today. I can’t remember if they had 12x12 albums or papers, but I don’t think they did. Within one to two years, the first LSS opened in my area, and I think 12x12 paper and cardstock were available at the LSS by then, as well as albums. I’m not sure about that, though.
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Post by workingclassdog on Dec 14, 2020 17:47:47 GMT
So when I started scrapping (around 1995/96).. scrapbooking wasn't anything I heard of before. I had 'scrapbooks' but not what we are referring to. I would say I was a accidental scrapper. I had a bunch of my mom's old pictures of her and her siblings growing up in the 30s and 40s and so forth. I bought an old time type scrapbook, I then on my own found 'pattern' paper.. which was really paper that was for stationary or writing or typing letters on.. 8 1/2 x 11.
Then one day RIGHT by where I lived there was this little store that I thought was an antique store. A place I know I always wanted to go in, but never found the time. One day I decided to finally stop. I look in the windows and I am thinking this isn't an antique store...but I walked in and I think my eyes grew as big as my face.. PRETTY paper, stickers, die cuts.. I was really confused what the heck this store was. I don't even know if there was 12x12 paper. At some point between that first visit and my first scrapbook there was 12x12 paper... That was my first book. A post bound kind that literally fell apart and I just converted it into a 3 ring type book. I still can remember that day like it was yesterday. What joy it brought me.. and still does.
Oh the name of the store was All My Memories... and at some point they had their own line of pattern paper.
AND there you go.. no answer .. just my trip down memory lane. Sorry!
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Post by workingclassdog on Dec 14, 2020 17:49:50 GMT
I went to my first scrapbook store in 1995 and not a 12x12 paper to be seen! I didn’t start scrapbooking till 1996. We had no LSS anywhere near me. It wasn’t until I visited another state before I got to shop at any LSS, so either late 96 or sometime in 97 at the earliest. I do remember well at least some of what they had: a selection of 8.5x11 decorative letter papers, like office supply stores sell, only you could buy it by the sheet instead of the ream; the same size white and colored card stock; cutesy notepad papers, such as you’d find in teachers supply stores, only by the sheet; pens for journaling and doodling; stickers; an Ellison press (die cut machine, not the roller style they have today) and dies that customers could use if they bought cardstock from the LSS to cut on it. Scrapbooking was pretty primitive in those days, when compared to today. I can’t remember if they had 12x12 albums or papers, but I don’t think they did. Within one to two years, the first LSS opened in my area, and I think 12x12 paper and cardstock were available at the LSS by then, as well as albums. I’m not sure about that, though. Your story is really similar to mine!
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Post by marg on Dec 15, 2020 3:42:25 GMT
Oh the name of the store was All My Memories... and at some point they had their own line of pattern paper. I had some All My Memories paper! So cool to have them as your LSS. I was looking through my old CM albums the other day and I do like the album style. I use 3-ring WMRK or Project Life albums now, but it is nice how the CM albums lay flat with the pages close together, and all of the pages were edged with white, like a frame. I like being more creative now, with all of the embellishments and fun techniques, though, so I'll stick with 3-ring binder style..
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Post by simplyparticular on Jan 5, 2021 2:00:27 GMT
I have a "vintage" paste in scrapbook from my college years - my memory is that it is roughly 12x12 - I'll have to measure it next time I peruse that memorabilia.
I started "modern" scrapbooking with 8.5x11 in 1997 - my first album was a 3 ring binder that I covered in fabric for my college fraternity, with 8.5x11 page protectors and white cardstock - no stickers - just a Micron pen, photo squares and white cardstock. I believe I bought everything at the office supply store? In fact, all my early scrapping was gift albums - next was organizing my mom's childhood photos in Hiller Size Wise albums (still searching for a few more!).
My first 12x12 albums were from K&Co that I gave to my college friends. Then I fell in love with 8x8 format. Very sorry that it's dwindling.
I work with the printing industry and 12x12 is strictly for crafting. The US (Letter/Legal/11x17) and ISO sizes (A3/A4/A5) are completely different. Even things like Canson art papers are 11x14, etc.
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Post by simplyparticular on Jan 9, 2021 18:13:16 GMT
I have a "vintage" paste in scrapbook from my college years - my memory is that it is roughly 12x12 - I'll have to measure it next time I peruse that memorabilia. Found it last night while looking for my high school yearbooks. The paper is 12” wide, and just over 12 1/2” high. It fits right in with postbound albums, although mine uses a hidden string to bind the pages.
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