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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 0:36:37 GMT
I know this is not new. For years I belonged to a Basic Grey kit of the month club. But that club was run through a LSS, so I am assuming that store earned a percentage for signing people up, and maybe for packaging the kits? Also, while I was confirming my kit purchase, usually one or two--or more  other items fell into my cart. So it was a win/win.
But now the manufacturers are selling kits directly to the consumer. I [ALMOST] ended up subscribing to the ep kit of the month b/c I loved their January kit so much. Too bad--but probably lucky for my pocket book--the shipping cost to Canada was MORE than the kit.
And today, I received an email from Simple Stories offering these Simple Pages Kits Am I the only one that is bothered by this? |
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msliz
Drama Llama
The Procrastinator
Posts: 6,419
Jun 26, 2014 21:32:34 GMT
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Post by msliz on Dec 18, 2020 1:31:06 GMT
Kits are popular, so I'm not surprised that the manufacturers want in on the action. The downside to those kits is that they only contain products from that one manufacturer.
On the other hand, your LSS and the Kit Clubs can draw from everything available from every manufacturer and package up the best of the best for their customers.
It doesn't really bother me, to be honest. Everyone is just trying to make a buck.
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Post by 950nancy on Dec 18, 2020 3:16:27 GMT
It is skipping the middleman, so maybe the prices aren't as much as they are at LSS. or Etsy. Who knows.
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Post by steakgoddess on Dec 18, 2020 8:07:13 GMT
It doesn’t bother me that they’re selling kits. If that’s what it takes to get people to scrapbook, I’m all for it.
It’s just not something I would buy. I hate being told where to put things. Just give me product and I’ll put it where I want.
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Post by mich5481 on Dec 18, 2020 12:44:14 GMT
The Basic Grey kits were packaged by BG, but I know some LSS had club nights to assemble the kits (and sell more products during the class).
I'm ok with manufacturers selling their own kit directly because so many of us no longer have a nearby LSS. 😢
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Deleted
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Apr 20, 2024 4:09:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 14:59:22 GMT
Never liked this kind of page kit - I agree w/others, I want the ingredients, not the "recipe". Because their pages always end up looking fusty to me.
I remember walking conventions and seeing these types of kits and just keeping on walking.
I think they give scrapbooking an out-of-touch vibe. I don't think the younger generation is attracted to that style of page.
But, who knows, I could be totally off base. We'll see how they go...
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Deleted
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Apr 20, 2024 4:09:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 15:02:34 GMT
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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 15:23:08 GMT
You had to show me that, again, didn't you, @zingermack... That is the one I had actually ordered and been billed for through PayPal, and then the next day I got an email telling me the cost of shipping to Canada and giving me the options of cancelling my order or putting through another PayPal payment for the shipping. I cancelled  Hoping I can get some of this line through the LSS. Or maybe... some of this is in the package the LSS put together for my Christmas gift from DH... |
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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 15:25:53 GMT
It doesn’t bother me that they’re selling kits. If that’s what it takes to get people to scrapbook, I’m all for it. It’s just not something I would buy. I hate being told where to put things. Just give me product and I’ll put it where I want. One of the first SB kits I signed up for was Apron Strings, and even starting out I felt hamstringed by how their kit had everything all precut and so few options for how to put it together. |
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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 15:30:21 GMT
It is skipping the middleman, so maybe the prices aren't as much as they are at LSS. or Etsy. Who knows. I think this is what bothers me about the mfg kits. If we all cut the middleman, then pretty soon there will be no middleman. I think the big box stores like M's and J's and the big on line stores like SB.com have driven alot of the LSS's out of business, and if the manufacturer is getting into the retail game, too, then the rest of them will be gone.
I know alot of people no longer have an LSS, but I would really like to keep the ones that still ARE in business. Local stores of any kind employ local people; the owners and employees spend money in the community. Not just in scrapbooking, if we don't keep the local stores in business, then the communities themselves will suffer.
Sorry. Just feeling snarky this week...
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Post by 950nancy on Dec 18, 2020 16:50:32 GMT
It is skipping the middleman, so maybe the prices aren't as much as they are at LSS. or Etsy. Who knows. I think this is what bothers me about the mfg kits. If we all cut the middleman, then pretty soon there will be no middleman. I think the big box stores like M's and J's and the big on line stores like SB.com have driven alot of the LSS's out of business, and if the manufacturer is getting into the retail game, too, then the rest of them will be gone.
I know alot of people no longer have an LSS, but I would really like to keep the ones that still ARE in business. Local stores of any kind employ local people; the owners and employees spend money in the community. Not just in scrapbooking, if we don't keep the local stores in business, then the communities themselves will suffer.
Sorry. Just feeling snarky this week...
I am lucky and do have a LSS in town. They do offer wonderful classes all of the time (not now, of course). They also sell page kits every month. The owner is pretty darn savvy and does FB live every week and showcases what they got in shipments for the week. She then puts up the pictures on FB and people can "buy" them by just saying they want it. She was the business I was the most worried about when the stores closed in March. I |
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Post by melanieg on Dec 18, 2020 16:57:58 GMT
You had to show me that, again, didn't you, @zingermack ... That is the one I had actually ordered and been billed for through PayPal, and then the next day I got an email telling me the cost of shipping to Canada and giving me the options of cancelling my order or putting through another PayPal payment for the shipping. I cancelled Hoping I can get some of this line through the LSS. Or maybe... some of this is in the package the LSS put together for my Christmas gift from DH... Anyone in the US you could ship to and have them forward on? I usually ship to the border, but cant get across right now |
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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 17:03:10 GMT
You had to show me that, again, didn't you, @zingermack ... That is the one I had actually ordered and been billed for through PayPal, and then the next day I got an email telling me the cost of shipping to Canada and giving me the options of cancelling my order or putting through another PayPal payment for the shipping. I cancelled Hoping I can get some of this line through the LSS. Or maybe... some of this is in the package the LSS put together for my Christmas gift from DH... Anyone in the US you could ship to and have them forward on? I usually ship to the border, but cant get across right now Tempting, I know. Free shipping in US right now for that kit. One ds's mil spends her winters in Phoenix, and I suppose I could have it shipped free to her. But although I am having a huge case of FOMO right now, I think the original sign up was a bit of an impulse buy, and their follow up email was a reality check. So I am resigned to not getting this one.... |
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Deleted
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Apr 20, 2024 4:09:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 17:32:08 GMT
You had to show me that, again, didn't you, @zingermack ... That is the one I had actually ordered and been billed for through PayPal, and then the next day I got an email telling me the cost of shipping to Canada and giving me the options of cancelling my order or putting through another PayPal payment for the shipping. I cancelled Hoping I can get some of this line through the LSS. Or maybe... some of this is in the package the LSS put together for my Christmas gift from DH... Sorry my friend. Yeah, it's a cool kit. What was the shipping cost to CAN? |
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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 17:36:44 GMT
Sorry my friend. Yeah, it's a cool kit. What was the shipping cost to CAN? The kit itself was $29.99 USD. The shipping was going to be $32.09 USD. So adjusting for exchange rate, the kit would have cost me close to $100 Canadian. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 20, 2024 4:09:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2020 17:55:09 GMT
Sorry my friend. Yeah, it's a cool kit. What was the shipping cost to CAN? The kit itself was $29.99 USD. The shipping was going to be $32.09 USD. So adjusting for exchange rate, the kit would have cost me close to $100 Canadian. Yowza. So high. We have to figure out a better way to do shipping. It's gotten crazy for international. ETA: EP usually finds its way to Amazon at some point. If you don't mind waiting and using it next year, you could probably get it for MUCH less. I know that's cold comfort (pun-intended), but it's something. |
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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 18:15:45 GMT
ETA: EP usually finds its way to Amazon at some point. If you don't mind waiting and using it next year, you could probably get it for MUCH less. I know that's cold comfort (pun-intended), but it's something. It's not that I don't have any other winter themed papers and supplies... And I am still hoping that the LSS has some of this line in stock. Unless ep is keeping it exclusive to the kits. |
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Post by joblackford on Dec 18, 2020 18:51:37 GMT
I figure the Simple Pages kits are a good gateway into the hobby for some people, and looking at what sells at big box stores we are not very representative of the average crafter/scrapbooker. Rules are not for me. I would have no fun at all sticking down things in the places they're supposed to go. But I get why they work for some people, and have nothing against it.
Kits and subscriptions are not for me either, generally speaking. But again, I get why they work for buyers and sellers alike.
I hate that Canadians are stuck with such awful shipping rates from the US. I get it for NZ, it's a long journey. But for some Canadians it's a car ride, or closer than some parts of the US are to each other. I feel like you guys got the worst of the deal when postal rates changed a few years ago. I used to be able to send a letter to Canada for much less than to NZ, about the same price as an extra ounce in the US. And then all of a sudden Canada was just as "overseas" as NZ or South Africa or Brazil. It sucks.
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Post by joblackford on Dec 18, 2020 18:54:58 GMT
I thought your post was going to be about monthly or frequent releases because I just watched this cardmaker's video, which summed up my feeling about the relentlessness of buy buy buy in the industry very well. It's hard because I know that little businesses can't survive without people buying, but I can't keep buying. It's too much. Anyway, not meaning to hijack the convo. |
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Post by anniefb on Dec 18, 2020 20:09:40 GMT
I quite like that EP kit but I hate to think what the shipping to NZ would be!
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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 20:24:36 GMT
Not hijacking, at all, joblackford . I think that the monthly releases + the "one and done" production schedules have us all on a gerbil wheel. Great if it keeps people engaged in the craft and the money flowing through the industry. But not so great for the people in the middle--and I would include the design team people in that category. When everything came out in essentially two batches each year, after the CHA winter and summer sessions, then we could look at it ALL at once, make decisions based on our needs and our bank accounts. At that time, it seemed like the small retailers got first crack at the new stuff. They could make THEIR buying decisions based on what they knew of their clients' needs and interests, and then reorder later if for some reason those interests changed. Then when it became clear that some lines or products weren't selling very well at retail price, they were released at season's end to the box stores for deep discounts, and those stores could market them as loss leaders. But now the whole industry seems to be based on FOMO. They release a little each month but don't promise this will be available later if you decide you like it after seeing it used. So if you THINK you will like it, you feel you HAVE to put your money down. Makes it impossible for the LSS's to plan b/c they get the notices about the same time the public does. And it seems the discount sellers are getting the product as quickly or more so than the retail outlets, basically undercutting them and making them afraid to order too much stuff and be caught with the inventory. I had never visited that video's creator's channel before. What she says about doing tutorials that can be used with a variety of products and styles sounds like something I might enjoy. TFS. |
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Post by joblackford on Dec 18, 2020 21:28:35 GMT
I had never visited that video's creator's channel before. What she says about doing tutorials that can be used with a variety of products and styles sounds like something I might enjoy. TFS. Oh yeah, Justine is pretty great. I've been watching her for a few years. I used to love her tutorials, she would do tips on quick cards, mass production, and stretching your supplies, but lately it felt like she was becoming like all the other high sub count channels. I realize now it was probably because she got on some design teams and was making videos for different reasons than she used to. I stopped watching regularly a while ago. She also rallied around some smaller channels after YT changed the criteria for monetization. She did a Save the Crafty YTer series the last couple of years and I found some great smaller channels through that. She's Canadian but usually lives overseas, in Germany right now, I think. So she's not been one to have a massive stash and pro-level craft room. I think her minimalism was what I liked about her originally, so I'm glad she's getting back to her roots. Thanks for explaining more about how the industry used to work. FOMO definitely drives so much. I have learned not to look, especially during hyped up events like Stamptember, because if I don't know I'm missing out I'm ok. Their constant releases have also taught me that there will always be another version, and maybe I'll even like that one better. |
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Post by refugeepea on Dec 18, 2020 22:19:10 GMT
SEI did this before they stopped selling scrapbook products. Now I want to buy from Simple Stories website. grammadee I live near-ish to their warehouse. I could probably send it to you for cheaper! I haven't done international shipping in a while, so I really have no idea.   |
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PaperAngel
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,272
Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Dec 18, 2020 22:45:35 GMT
Manufacturers are for-profit companies. Selling kits/warehouse boxes/etc. is an avenue for them to turnover inventory & get/keep customers who may not have a LSS or an online retailer that offers/has complete collections in stock. I have never subscribed to or purchased a kit curated by a LSS or kit club, since they often are themed & contain too many elements that I'll never use. I prefer to handpick my supplies. However, I always peek at the current EP club kit every time it's mentioned in threads here. It appears the club kit model (& optional add-ons) is products from an existing line from EP or CB, plus an exclusive. For example, the January 2021 kit & add ons are from the CB Winter Market collection that was released in September (ETA: discussed here & available at SB.com) with an exclusive stamp set (the only item from the current kit that you cannot buy elsewhere). |
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Post by grammadee on Dec 18, 2020 22:46:42 GMT
SEI did this before they stopped selling scrapbook products. Now I want to buy from Simple Stories website. grammadee I live near-ish to their warehouse. I could probably send it to you for cheaper! I haven't done international shipping in a while, so I really have no idea. Thank you for the offer. But that's okay. Hope you can find some scrappy goodies from SS for yourself. Not sure if they ever have a warehouse sale like some of the others. |
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Post by aj2hall on Dec 19, 2020 0:24:44 GMT
I’ve bought some of the EP kits when I loved the collection. They’re a good value if you can use that much of 1 collection. I think they’ve been selling them for several years at least. Simple Stories has been making page kits and album kits for a few years. When Layke Koncar worked for them, I think she designed some of them. Some LSS were offering classes based on the kits. Button Farm club sells some of the kits, I think the scrap-room does, too.
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Post by wendifful on Dec 19, 2020 1:23:12 GMT
Not hijacking, at all, joblackford . I think that the monthly releases + the "one and done" production schedules have us all on a gerbil wheel. Great if it keeps people engaged in the craft and the money flowing through the industry. But not so great for the people in the middle--and I would include the design team people in that category. When everything came out in essentially two batches each year, after the CHA winter and summer sessions, then we could look at it ALL at once, make decisions based on our needs and our bank accounts. At that time, it seemed like the small retailers got first crack at the new stuff. They could make THEIR buying decisions based on what they knew of their clients' needs and interests, and then reorder later if for some reason those interests changed. Then when it became clear that some lines or products weren't selling very well at retail price, they were released at season's end to the box stores for deep discounts, and those stores could market them as loss leaders. But now the whole industry seems to be based on FOMO. They release a little each month but don't promise this will be available later if you decide you like it after seeing it used. So if you THINK you will like it, you feel you HAVE to put your money down. Makes it impossible for the LSS's to plan b/c they get the notices about the same time the public does. And it seems the discount sellers are getting the product as quickly or more so than the retail outlets, basically undercutting them and making them afraid to order too much stuff and be caught with the inventory. I have to say I disagree with this, although I completely respect your opinion and see where you're coming from. For me, waiting for two separate batches each year would be terribly boring. I always look forward to monthly releases, not because I buy something/everything, but because it's something NEW to look at. I love going to the "new" section at SSS or Scrapbook.com and just browsing so I can see new trends. I also know that new releases = new content for designers. Most crafters I follow post videos/content when something new is released, because that's when there's an incentive to do so. I also think that the monthly release schedule must be easier on companies, for two reasons: 1) they can respond to trends faster and 2) they have to spend money to get the product manufactured and doing that over 12 months instead of in two big lumps must be easier. I do agree with you about the pressures of FOMO. I'm a bit lucky in that I don't scrapbook anymore, I do cardmaking, and I find that with a few exceptions of limited releases (like Stamptember), stamps and dies seem to get restocked pretty often and often stay part of the company's catalog for a year or two. I think this is because stamps and dies are mostly made in the US and they're higher price point items, so it makes more sense to order a second run, as opposed to one particular pattern of a 12x12 paper. |
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Post by marg on Dec 19, 2020 2:01:49 GMT
I figure the Simple Pages kits are a good gateway into the hobby for some people, and looking at what sells at big box stores we are not very representative of the average crafter/scrapbooker. Rules are not for me. I would have no fun at all sticking down things in the places they're supposed to go. But I get why they work for some people, and have nothing against it. Kits and subscriptions are not for me either, generally speaking. But again, I get why they work for buyers and sellers alike. I hate that Canadians are stuck with such awful shipping rates from the US. I get it for NZ, it's a long journey. But for some Canadians it's a car ride, or closer than some parts of the US are to each other. I feel like you guys got the worst of the deal when postal rates changed a few years ago. I used to be able to send a letter to Canada for much less than to NZ, about the same price as an extra ounce in the US. And then all of a sudden Canada was just as "overseas" as NZ or South Africa or Brazil. It sucks. Our Canada Post rates went up drastically over the past few years, too - for instance, a domestic stamp was 65 cents in 2015 and is $1.05 now. Plus 13% HST on top of that. Canadian companies don't have free shipping options nearly as much as US ones do. I'm always so jealous of you guys. I'd do a lot more online shopping if I didn't have to add $10 or $20 shipping every time. In any case, even with US shipping rates, its often cheaper to buy from the US than a retailer in Canada. It's tough over here. |
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Chinagirl828
Drama Llama
Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,454
Jun 28, 2014 6:28:53 GMT
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Post by Chinagirl828 on Dec 19, 2020 2:12:33 GMT
I think I'm mostly ok with manufacturers selling kits directly to the consumer as long as they don't eliminate their own customer base. Cocoa Vanilla sell direct from their website, but what I really like is there is a delay of a couple of months before they offer the new lines, which gives the stores they sell to a good chance at making money on those same lines first. Similarly, by including the exclusive stamp, EP are giving consumers a reason to buy through them.
I think the other part I wonder about is how many people are actually buying directly from EP and is it really enough to shift the dial on their sales. We already know we're in the minority of shoppers/paper crafters with our buying habits, and if I look at my local buy/sell groups as a general guide, the sellers who are getting rid of all their stash have paper collections filled with CM, SU, or here especially, Kaisercraft.
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Dec 19, 2020 2:12:52 GMT
ETA: EP usually finds its way to Amazon at some point. If you don't mind waiting and using it next year, you could probably get it for MUCH less. I know that's cold comfort (pun-intended), but it's something. It's not that I don't have any other winter themed papers and supplies... And I am still hoping that the LSS has some of this line in stock. Unless ep is keeping it exclusive to the kits. It looks like the only thing exclusive to the kit is the stamps; I just bought the 6x6 pad from scrapbook.com. |
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other items fell into my cart. So it was a win/win.
