Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 8, 2021 22:31:05 GMT
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Post by Darcy Collins on Mar 8, 2021 22:36:03 GMT
The GS has the Gold Award, I've heard that it's more difficult to obtain than the Eagle, but don't have direct experience with either.
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Post by LiLi on Mar 8, 2021 22:39:14 GMT
The Girl Scouts do have an equivalent to the Eagle Scout, it is the Girl Scout Gold Award. However people who are okay with joining the boy scouts, knowing what they stand for (and against) would never choose to join the girl scouts.
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Post by peatlejuice on Mar 8, 2021 22:40:04 GMT
The Girl Scouts do have an equivalent, called the Gold Award.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 8, 2021 22:42:47 GMT
Knowing there is an equivalent makes me even more mad. Feminists who scream smash the patriarchy all while dying to be the patriarchy make me wanna punch air.
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used2scrap
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Post by used2scrap on Mar 8, 2021 22:48:40 GMT
The Girl Scouts have an “equivalent” that many people haven’t heard of, without the “prestige” of being an Eagle Scout and the doors that award can open. I imagine that is why some girls might choose the Eagle Scout path instead of the GS Silver or Gold route.
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Post by LiLi on Mar 8, 2021 22:49:29 GMT
Knowing there is an equivalent makes me even more mad. Feminists who scream smash the patriarchy all while dying to be the patriarchy make me wanna punch air. Which program these girls chose may have something to do with "gays are icky." Girl Scouts don't discriminate. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 8, 2021 22:51:21 GMT
The Girl Scouts do have an equivalent to the Eagle Scout, it is the Girl Scout Gold Award. However people who are okay with joining the boy scouts, knowing what they stand for (and against) would never choose to join the girl scouts. There are lots of girls who have joined both programs and have gotten whatever it is they wanted out of those programs. The BSA program is very well defined, lots of camping experiences is how the boys earn ranks and badges. My son camps typically 1x a month. The girls do have badges, but they are all optional and YMMV on your troop experience depending on what the leader herself wants to offer the girls - I'm a GS leader and we camp maybe 1-2 times a year, but my troop really focused on service and events for other Girl Scouts. It's what THEY wanted to do. I'm more of an advisor and facilitator. The highest award in Girl Scouting is called the Gold Award. Only high school aged girls can earn it. The Bronze is for Girl Scout Jrs (4th/5th gr -approx 20 hrs per girl), the Silver is for Middle School Cadettes (appprox 40 hrs) and the Gold is an 80+ hr leadership award. It's hard as hell to get it approved and lots of girls give up bc the process is so difficult. And most projects are well above 80 hrs. I have one girl currently working on a project that is easily over 200 hrs. My daughter's project was about 150. The highest RANK in Boy Scouts is Eagle, and the project is just part of earning that rank. Boys have to earn ranks (Scout, Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, 1st Class, Star, Life) and 1st Class the boy has a 4 month leadership requirement, and Star and Life have 6 month leadership reqs, plus the boys have to earn at least 21 badges, I believe 11 of them are mandatory, and the other 10 are their choice. BSA is also coming out with a new Inclusive merit badge that will be required, but I am not sure how that fits into the 21, or if boys need to earn 22. I've been involved with both programs and can see the pros and cons for both. I do think Girl Scouts offers a Girl Led experience that can be very different from what other troops do, while BSA has more of an outdoors tradition so if you hate camping, BSA is gonna be tough. |
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Post by LiLi on Mar 8, 2021 22:53:35 GMT
I've been involved with both programs and can see the pros and cons for both. I do think Girl Scouts offers a Girl Led experience that can be very different from what other troops do, while BSA has more of an outdoors tradition so if you hate camping, BSA is gonna be tough. Nope. Discrimination is not a "Con" it is a hardline NOPE imo, no matter what they offer.  |
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Post by mom on Mar 8, 2021 22:55:51 GMT
My sons are Eagle Scouts. And when everyone was discussing letting girls join and earn their Eagle instead of just staying with Girl Scouts, we were told they didn't want to because so much more scholarship money comes with earning an Eagle vs. Gold Award. I don't know if that is true or not. But I do know my sons were given a bunch of scholarship money because they were Eagles.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 8, 2021 23:01:49 GMT
I've been involved with both programs and can see the pros and cons for both. I do think Girl Scouts offers a Girl Led experience that can be very different from what other troops do, while BSA has more of an outdoors tradition so if you hate camping, BSA is gonna be tough. Nope. Discrimination is not a "Con" it is a hardline NOPE, no matter what they offer. FWIW, this is not the BSA stance anymore. Yes, that was a rule in the past. They have now amended their... by-laws? I can't think of the correct term. The BSA lifted their bans on gay scouts and gay leaders in 2013 and 2015 (respectively). |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 8, 2021 23:05:26 GMT
My sons are Eagle Scouts. And when everyone was discussing letting girls join and earn their Eagle instead of just staying with Girl Scouts, we were told they didn't want to because so much more scholarship money comes with earning an Eagle vs. Gold Award. I don't know if that is true or not. But I do know my sons were given a bunch of scholarship money because they were Eagles. Money does seem to be an issue with the BSA. www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/boy-scouts-norman-rockwell-paintings-help-pay-sex-abuse-claims/ |
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Post by LiLi on Mar 8, 2021 23:07:45 GMT
Nope. Discrimination is not a "Con" it is a hardline NOPE, no matter what they offer. FWIW, this is not the BSA stance anymore. Yes, that was a rule in the past. They have now amended their... by-laws? I can't think of the correct term. The BSA lifted their bans on gay scouts and gay leaders in 2013 and 2015 (respectively). They still discriminate, here is one article, I am sure you can find more: www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-boy-scouts-are-rebranding-but-theyre-still-excluding-a-big-group/2018/12/14/beb5c31a-f31b-11e8-80d0-f7e1948d55f4_story.htmlETS: Even if they didn't, the only reasons they made the changes that they did was because they were sued. Add in the cover-ups, I wish people would stop making excuses as to why an organization is okay for their own needs, when the history of what they stand for is despicable. |
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Post by mom on Mar 8, 2021 23:07:52 GMT
My sons are Eagle Scouts. And when everyone was discussing letting girls join and earn their Eagle instead of just staying with Girl Scouts, we were told they didn't want to because so much more scholarship money comes with earning an Eagle vs. Gold Award. I don't know if that is true or not. But I do know my sons were given a bunch of scholarship money because they were Eagles. Money does seem to be an issue with the BSA. www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/boy-scouts-norman-rockwell-paintings-help-pay-sex-abuse-claims/And this is why I hesitated before I posted. I thought you were wanting to discuss why girls joined the boys. My bad. |
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Post by peatlejuice on Mar 8, 2021 23:09:43 GMT
My sons are Eagle Scouts. And when everyone was discussing letting girls join and earn their Eagle instead of just staying with Girl Scouts, we were told they didn't want to because so much more scholarship money comes with earning an Eagle vs. Gold Award. I don't know if that is true or not. But I do know my sons were given a bunch of scholarship money because they were Eagles. IIRC, I got one, $1000, scholarship for my Gold Award. This was twenty-some years ago. I don't know how much is available for Eagles, but my experience was definitely that not much scholarship money was available solely on the basis of having a GA. |
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Post by mom on Mar 8, 2021 23:14:12 GMT
My sons are Eagle Scouts. And when everyone was discussing letting girls join and earn their Eagle instead of just staying with Girl Scouts, we were told they didn't want to because so much more scholarship money comes with earning an Eagle vs. Gold Award. I don't know if that is true or not. But I do know my sons were given a bunch of scholarship money because they were Eagles. IIRC, I got one, $1000, scholarship for my Gold Award. This was twenty-some years ago. I don't know how much is available for Eagles, but my experience was definitely that not much scholarship money was available solely on the basis of having a GA. I just asked DS1 and his Eagle money mainly came from the university. He got a local BSA scholarship for a little but then more from his school. DS2 went to college first (got scholarship $$) and then enlisted. He was bumped up in rank for having Eagle. A quick google search says girls get the same bump with Gold. |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 8, 2021 23:14:34 GMT
My sons are Eagle Scouts. And when everyone was discussing letting girls join and earn their Eagle instead of just staying with Girl Scouts, we were told they didn't want to because so much more scholarship money comes with earning an Eagle vs. Gold Award. I don't know if that is true or not. But I do know my sons were given a bunch of scholarship money because they were Eagles. Money does seem to be an issue with the BSA. www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/boy-scouts-norman-rockwell-paintings-help-pay-sex-abuse-claims/Scholarships don't come from BSA tho - they are typically given because the kid earned Eagle. My daughter earned the Gold, and I don't expect any money/scholarships because of it (maybe we are looking in the wrong places!). And it seems there are a very few select Eagle Scout specific scholarships that my son wouldn't be applicable for either (ie, we are not Jewish, he didn't cure cancer through his Eagle project, etc) BUT there may be schools or other institutions that give scholarships because the boy earned Eagle. The BSA has actually going through a huge lawsuit due to sexual misconduct, we've had huge increases in dues because of it. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 8, 2021 23:16:39 GMT
And this is why I hesitated before I posted. I thought you were wanting to discuss why girls joined the boys. My bad. Your bad? Unsure of what you are trying to say. You posted that the reason for no inclusion is because award money is attached to ES honor. I went to google to see how much the award was so as not to make you responsible for educating me on a topic. I typed in award money+ Boys scouts and hit the news tab to see what I could find. The story is from 5 days ago. It’s an article about how they’ve had to liquidate Rockwell paintings to pay off debts. If ever you feel “hesitant” posting on my threads please know it’s not like I’ll notice if in your hesitation you decide against posting. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 8, 2021 23:19:56 GMT
Scholarships don't come from BSA tho - they are typically given because the kid earned Eagle. My daughter earned the Gold, and I don't expect any money/scholarships because of it (maybe we are looking in the wrong places!). And it seems there are a very few select Eagle Scout specific scholarships that my son wouldn't be applicable for either (ie, we are not Jewish, he didn't cure cancer through his Eagle project, etc) BUT there may be schools or other institutions that give scholarships because the boy earned Eagle. The BSA has actually going through a huge lawsuit due to sexual misconduct, we've had huge increases in dues because of it. Thanks I thought she was trying to say the award money given to Eagle Scouts is the reason girls weren’t allowed to become ES until recently. So the reason would be a money issue not that they were necessarily trying to keep girls out of the ranks. I read it as the award money comes from BSA. |
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Post by LiLi on Mar 8, 2021 23:20:29 GMT
And this is why I hesitated before I posted. I thought you were wanting to discuss why girls joined the boys. My bad. I'm not sure how Olan's comment doesn't flow with the conversation, what on earth? Am I missing something?  |
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Post by ilovesmores on Mar 8, 2021 23:28:47 GMT
I earned the Gold Award over 25 years ago, and while I didn’t earn any scholarships, it helped when I did apply. If I had chosen the military, it would give me a higher rank upon entry than non recipients. One of my male cousins earned his Eagle about 5 years after me and my project was much more complex and the time commitment was much greater. He hates when I bring it up.
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Post by ntsf on Mar 8, 2021 23:28:57 GMT
the Gold Award as part of GSUSA is not equivalent to the Eagle, it is a different kind of award.. sort of comparing a Nobel prize to a pulitzer.. they are just not in the same ballpark.. though both are the highest awards of a youth organization.these two organizations are very very different in many ways.
in the early years of GS, the highest award was Golden Eaglet.. and there were ranks very much like boy scouts. they left that behind and made the program more flexible.. so the troops develop their own interests or at least are able to...so backpacking may be the focus or robotics, or mariner. or service or fun or whatever.
Boy scouts are focused on rank.. though you don't have to earn ranks to be part of a troop.
The Gold award has been around since the 1980's.. I got the highest award in the 1970's--First Class.
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Post by mom on Mar 8, 2021 23:29:26 GMT
And this is why I hesitated before I posted. I thought you were wanting to discuss why girls joined the boys. My bad. I'm not sure how Olan's comment doesn't flow with the conversation, what on earth? Am I missing something? Her link is about BSA selling art to pay for their sex abuse claims. My post, that she quoted, was about why girls wanted to be eagles because of the money they get from scholarships. BSA isn't the ones giving out all the money. Its colleges. Her OP was about why girls wanted to be Eagles. So I replied the answer that had been given to me. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 8, 2021 23:34:27 GMT
And this is why I hesitated before I posted. I thought you were wanting to discuss why girls joined the boys. My bad. I'm not sure how Olan's comment doesn't flow with the conversation, what on earth? Am I missing something? People take great offense to my posting informational links. That’s all I got. Again if you are hesitant or think you know how I’ll respond...stand down. The perspective she provided would not have been missed. And I don’t say that rudely but from an informational stand point. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 8, 2021 23:36:34 GMT
I'm not sure how Olan's comment doesn't flow with the conversation, what on earth? Am I missing something? Her link is about BSA selling art to pay for their sex abuse claims. My post, that she quoted, was about why girls wanted to be eagles because of the money they get from scholarships. BSA isn't the ones giving out all the money. Its colleges. Her OP was about why girls wanted to be Eagles. So I replied the answer that had been given to me. That wasn’t at all what I gathered from your response which is why I went in search of the full picture myself. |
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Post by JustCallMeMommy on Mar 8, 2021 23:38:24 GMT
I've had the opportunity to look at lots of Gold Award and Eagle Scout information lately. Around here, colleges typically offer the same scholarship for both, and it is usually an automatic scholarship that is stackable on top of other academic scholarships the school offers.
IMO, the PATH to the Eagle Scout is harder (in terms of badges, rank, or years), but the attainment of the Gold Award is harder (number of hours and the sustainability factor - you can't just build something or do a one-time service project).
I'm not sure if there were so many girls ASKING to be part of the Boy Scouts or if the Boy Scouts were trying to figure out how to expand membership during a time when kids are just over programmed. I have to imagine that membership is on the decline, so increasing possible membership by 100% was the actual motivation. As I understand it, girls and boys are still separated in the smaller unit of Boy Scouts, but they can be in the same larger unit (and I don't know the names of those - in Girl Scouts it would be troop and Service Unit, but the two aren't equivalent in Boy Scouts).
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Mar 8, 2021 23:58:15 GMT
the Gold Award as part of GSUSA is not equivalent to the Eagle, it is a different kind of award.. sort of comparing a Nobel prize to a pulitzer.. they are just not in the same ballpark.. though both are the highest awards of a youth organization.these two organizations are very very different in many ways. in the early years of GS, the highest award was Golden Eaglet.. and there were ranks very much like boy scouts. they left that behind and made the program more flexible.. so the troops develop their own interests or at least are able to...so backpacking may be the focus or robotics, or mariner. or service or fun or whatever. Boy scouts are focused on rank.. though you don't have to earn ranks to be part of a troop. The Gold award has been around since the 1980's.. I got the highest award in the 1970's--First Class. Thank you for weighing in. |
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Post by ntsf on Mar 9, 2021 0:10:12 GMT
Also BSA is in big financial and numbers problems because the mormon church ended its relationship with BSA.. the church used it as a mandatory program for young men. so all that money went away and most the mormon kids went to a different program.
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Post by hop2 on Mar 9, 2021 0:19:46 GMT
It is much harder to be eligible to do an Eagle project than to be eligible to do a gold award project.
The path to eagle eligibility is much harder and more involved than the path to eligibility of the gold award. More requirements etc.
The actual project for the gold award project is harder, more involved to do than the actual eagle project.
My son could have done 2 eagle projects easier than qualifying to do the eagle. The years of level of badges, plus politics from some of the few badge instructors who should not be badge instructors, adding to the kids stress unnecessarily. For the project, there is a count of total person hours for everyone helping and that all adds up, with no large minimum specified for the single scout going for the award. ( Sure the hours add up but it’s a different measure to measure total person hours as opposed to that scouts hours only ) The approval process is thru semi random people your assigned to get approval from, some can be jerks, and when one get arrested and leaves you high & dry it’s not easy for the boy to find/locate/determine that persons replacement ( yeah btdt )
The Gold project has fewer prior requirements. Many of which can be accomplished as a troop ( if your leaders are wise ) The project itself has a minimum number of hours for that specific Girl Scout to do it was expected to do 80-100 hours for that specific scout not total person hours ( including planning & prep & thank you’s after ) the actual project itself is more time consuming to do than the eagle. The approval process was much less political and held close by council here for Girl Scouts.
However, if you take the whole process into account both the project and the path of eligibility then the actual result of achieving the awards evens out in my opinion. Both awards in total are equivalent. Definitely not the same.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 9, 2021 0:27:01 GMT
I have 2 sons that are both Eagle Scouts and a 3rd that is on track to becoming one. My dh is one as well and the scoutmaster. I know there’s a lot of bad history with the organization and some adults have done terrible things. I am truly sorry for that. Some may disagree with our decision to be involved, but my boys have had positive experiences and grown so much. All have been actively involved with a summer Cub Scout camp. The adults that I know involved with the program are honorable and excellent role models.
Our local troop, even before my dh was scoutmaster, has always been open and inclusive. Several boys have autism and other disabilities. The former scoutmaster was welcoming, open and accepting to my oldest in particular, who has Aspergers and to my youngest who has ADD. The troop also had another member who was openly gay. The troop and scoutmaster were always open and accepting to all of the boys. The former scoutmaster always encouraged the boys but let them choose their own path. Some boys are interested in the Eagle route, other boys just enjoy the outdoor activities. I think at the local level, there’s a lot of variation in troops in terms of inclusiveness, leadership styles, activities etc. The boys are actively involved in planning, so the activities really depend on their interests.
As far as religion, it also really depends on the troop. Yes, duty to God is included in the oath. In our troop, that really is the only time that God is mentioned or talked about. They do meet in a Congregational church in town, but again we are a small town with limited options. The church offers their space but that is the extent of their involvement. My middle son is perhaps atheist or agnostic, I'm not sure how he would define himself. But, he always felt comfortable participating in the Boy Scouts, he never felt that he had to give up his personal beliefs to be a part of the troop.
I have mixed feelings about including girls in the program. It does feel like a money grab, the Boy Scouts declared bankruptcy and are definitely struggling financially. The Girl Scouts may have an equivalent award or one that also requires a significant amount of work and dedication. Unfortunately, it’s not as well known or recognized.
Our troop does not have a girls unit yet, we live in a small town and there just has not been enough interest. From my understanding, if there is a girls unit formed, the girls will have their own leader but can share some of the adult leadership and committee members.
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