My Republican DH. can you guys help me?

I've got no suggestions.  My DH and I are former Republicans.  We see eye to eye on things (maybe because we are both engineers).  You probably aren't going to change his mind on the need to reduce our (US) dependence on oil.  You could point out that the demand for alternative energy sources (solar, wind, hydro) is increasing worldwide.  The US can either buy these technologies from some other country or we can be a leader in this field.  It's not just an economic choice.  Selling these things gives the US influence over the buyers.  

We drove past one of the 'protest' sites on our way to Bemidji today.  Not a lot going on.  It does seem that the pipeline is kind of close to the river but, have they had any spills?  I see that they have rerouted the line around the Leech Lake reservation.  I get that people are worried about the environment but, I bet most of them use products that come from crude oil.  We lived not that far from Deer Park/Pasadena in Texas.  The oil business is filthy.

Do you really want to wind yourself up arguing with your husband about this?  There are plenty of people to persuade. While it might be satisfying and it might seem logical to start your campaign at home, it may not be the best thing for your marriage.  I have a non-Trump Republican DH who doesn't believe in climate change also.  There are other policies we can debate where we aren't so far apart and I know a lot more about my issue so I stick to those.  

It's a case of 'pick your battles.'  If this is the battle you have picked, good luck.  I truly hope you are successful. All I can say is that he is right in that a lot of stuff is made from petroleum products.  Did you know that carpeting is?  

Brainwashing rhetoric and gaslighting all rolled up in one.

Agree - she was not wanting to show her DH he was stupid. She needs non-biased factual data to show him. I am often in the same boat. DH and I disagree on some things but I have to cite non-biased sources, because if they are in ANY way liberal, he immediately dismisses it.

I'm surprised at some of the responses in this thread but kudos to you for continuing to engage, cindyupnorth. It's worth trying and being more vocal in an educative manner, especially if this is the person you choose to live with. 

I think the discussion around the finite amount of oil is probably the best angle considering he's currently a climate change denier (and I wouldn't tackle both battles at once because while they are in essence scientific matters, they've been turned into ideological rhetorics). Oil cannot be grown the way trees can. It is literally a minimum of 50 million years of "work". We cannot rely on time segments of at least 50 million years for future generations considering our lifespan as humans. Now, if we were a species of beings that lived 100-200 million years, it would be a different matter and the only question would be to analyse exactly how to make the magic oil potion (which, again, I'm not in favour of because obvious climate change but that's a subject you don't need to worry about right now with your husband). 

Lol definitely *not* one of non-biased sources that were asked for. 😏

I think that pipeline hack last month was a real eye opener. If we are truly close to “running out” we’re fvcked as a society. We were in the middle of a trip to Florida and finding gas was scary. To suddenly have no fuel, we will collapse.

My husband was raised by a farmer. He drives a tool truck and sells tools to automotive technicians. He has a hard time believing the oil crisis is real too. We’ve argued about it but I’m not knowledgeable enough to have any meaningful impact other than “it’s coming eventually”. I do drive home the fact that we need to buy a new pick up truck sooner rather than later. Even if farms amd semi drivers keep using fuel, everyday consumers won’t. We’ll be the first to go on the priority of fuel useage.

From the US Energy Information Agency….  link

“In 2020, U.S. petroleum consumption averaged about 18.12 million barrels per day (b/d), which included nearly 1 million b/d of biofuels.1 U.S. total petroleum consumption was about 13% lower in 2020 than the levels in 2018 and 2019 largely because of responses to the COVID-19 pandemic. Consumption of most petroleum products in 2020 was lower than in 2019.

% breakdown of how the oil is used

66% Transportation (gas & diesel)
28% Industrial
  3% Residential   
  2% Commercial
<1% Electric Power.

&

“What is the outlook for U.S. petroleum consumption?”

The U.S. Energy Information Administration projects in the Annual Energy Outlook 2021 Reference case, that total U.S. liquid fuels (petroleum and other liquids) use will return to the levels of consumption in 2018 and 2019 by 2036 and increase gradually during the remainder of the projection period to nearly 22 million b/d in 2050. Liquid fuels will account for about 36% to 38% of total annual U.S. energy consumption through 2050.

Also in the Reference case, liquid fuels continue as the main energy source for the transportation sector, but the percentage share falls slightly from 96% in 2020 to 92% in 2050. The volume of total transportation sector liquid fuels consumption is projected to be about the same in 2050 as in 2022.”


Last year California announced as of 2035 one could no longer purchase gas/diesel powered cars in the state.  Right after that announcement Ford and a couple other car manufacturers jumped on the band wagon and committed to producing EV of all their models.   Ford just released the EV F-150 pickup with apparently the Mustang next in line for an EV version.  And other car manufacturers have also been releasing EV of their makes of cars.

A couple of days ago Jay Leno broke a quarter mile speed record driving a production model Tesla that goes from 0-60 in under 2 seconds and has a top speed of 200 miles.

IMO as soon as California announced it would ban the sale of gas/diesel vehicles in the state the hand writing was on the wall and the country will transition to EVs.  California is the largest car market in the United States and the auto manufacturers are aware of that.

Ford chose the best selling pick up in the US to make their next EV model.  That will appeal to folks who drive pick ups.  Then you have Tesla releasing a production model Tesla that will go 0-60 in under 2 seconds with a top speed of 200 miles that will appeal to the car guys.  My guess is the manufacturers will continue to release models of EV that will appeal to other groups of buyers.

And I don’t believe this is factored into “The outlook for US Petroleum consumption” in the article above.  I think the reason is they don’t have numbers to say otherwise.  At this point.

Yes currently there are not enough charging stations and the batteries could be better.  But the switch over is not happening overnight and more charging stations will pop up and technology will make the batteries better and better.

My guess is technology will reduce the % of oil use in the non transportation category as well.

I don’t think the question is “will oil run out” but with the advances of technology will we still need it 10, 15, or 25 years down the road? I’m thinking we won’t. And based on the damage an oil spill can do I’m thinking that’s not a bad thing.

I don’t think climate change should be viewed as a political issue.  The reason is because it affects all us regardless of out political affiliation.

I also think more than a few they see climate change as an abstract concept they can’t grasp because they are not witnessing it first hand or aware that they are witnessing it first hand.

Let’s be honest that unless you are a scientist all that mumble jumble is going right over our heads.  So seeing is believing.  And that is a problem and how do you address it.

Two things made me a believer.

When I use to commute for work from where I live in the North Bay to San Francisco I crossed the Golden Gate Bridge.  Some nights on the way home crossing the bridge if you looked toward the city you would see this whiskey color layer sitting on top of the water.  You knew what it was, it was all the emissions from cars.  And that is what people had been breathing.  Because you know that layer of stuff was not just sitting on the water but it’s also among the buildings were the people are.  

Then there are the wildfires that have been raging through California and other western states these last couple of years.

There have always been wildfires.  But the number and intensity has been increasing.

Sonoma County has its share these last couple of years so I asked google how many in recent years.  In 2019 the Santa Rosa Press Democrat listed the fires from 1923 to 2019.  Not included were the fires from 2020.  Sonoma County had two separate fires burning at the same time in 2020 which are not included in the list.

Notice up until 2017, that while there multiple fires in a specific year,  there were years where there were no fires in Sonoma County.  Or even in the North Bay for that matter.  

Since 2017 there have been fires every year and they are not little fires.   This is not normal.  And it’s not just in The North Bay this is happening but in other areas and states as well.

And I suspect folks who have been hit by the intensive storms that have been hitting not just the United States but other countries as well can also say this is not normal.

So IMO we need to talk about climate change and keep talking about it.  Talk about it until it becomes an abstract concept that the non-believers can grasp and understand while it might not affect them directly today, it could tomorrow or next year and by then it could be too late to reverse the affects.


From the Press Democrat.

2019 - Kincade Fire - largest fire in Sonoma County history, burnt approximately 77,758 acres in Sonoma County, destroyed 374 structures

2018 - Mendocino Complex - burned approximately 459,123 acres in Mendocino, Lake, Colusa & Glen counties; destroyed 280 structures and killed one person

2017 - Tubbs Fire - burned approximately 36,807 acres in Sonoma and Napa counties, destroyed 5,636 structures and killed 22 people

2017 - Nuns Fire - burned approximately 54,000 acres (34,398 in Sonoma County and 20,025 in Napa County), destroyed 1,355 structures and killed 3 people

2017 - Atlas Fire - burned approximately 51,624 acres in Napa and Solano Counties, destroyed 120 structures and killed 6 people

2017 - Redwood Valley Fire - burned approximately 36,523 acres in Mendocino County, destroyed 546 structures and killed 9 people

2017 - Pocket Fire - burned approximately 14,225 acres in Sonoma County, destroyed 6 structures

2017 - Sulphur Fire - burned approximately 2,207 acres in Lake County, destroyed 162 structures

(TOTAL 2017 North Bay fires - 195,768 acres)

2015 - Valley Fire - burned approximately 76,067 acres in Lake, Napa and Sonoma counties, destroyed 1,955 structures and killed 4 people

2012 - North Pass Fire - burned approximately 41,983 acres in Mendocino County

2004 - Rumsey Fire - burned approximately 39,138 acres in Napa and Yolo counties

2004 - Geysers Fire - started around Geyserville and burned approximately 12,525 acres and destroyed 33 structures in Lake County

1996 - Fork Fire - burned approximately 83,057 acres in Lake County. Much of the devastation was focused in the Mendocino National Forest

1996 - Porter Creek Fire - burned approximately 300 acres in Sonoma County

1981 - Atlas Peak Fire - burned approximately 23 thousand acres in Napa County

1981 - Cow Mountain Fire - burned approximately 25,534 acres in Lake and Mendocino counties.

1978 - Creighton Ridge Fire - burned over 11,000 acres in Sonoma County

1966 - Cavedale Fire - A second fire near Cavedale Road in Sonoma struck the valley in 1966

1964 - Hanly Fire - burned approximately 52,700 acres in Sonoma and Napa counties. 84 homes, 24 summer cabins and countless farm buildings destroyed including the historic Tubbs Mansion

1964 - Nunns Canyon Fire - burned approximately 7,000 acres in Sonoma County

1961 - Guerneville Fire - burned approximately 5,800 acres, destroying several structures including 18 homes and $500,000 worth of timber

1925 - Cavedale Fire - burned several acres in Sonoma Valley

1923 - Sonoma Valley* - A fast-moving September blaze leveled the town of Boyes Hot Springs and destroyed several structures in the Sonoma Valley towns of Sonoma Vista and Caliente Springs

1923 - Gurneville Fire* - The September blaze began above Armstrong Grove, threatened Guerneville and burned all the way to Jenner

I know right? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

So here’s the thing—the doomsday O&G people (and lots and lots of republicans) are once again stirring up fear factor emotions, and a lot not based on reality. They’re holding on to generations of past, especially we have much cleaner resources for power.

And the thing is—that they’re acting like there will be laws/decisions made that eradicate every ounce and trace of O&G—in its entirety from the US, which isn’t the plan at all.

Just more desperate fear mongering from a bunch of republican politicians WHO ARE PAID BY OIL AND GAS COMPANIES to wage the fear factor in the US.

What’s hypocritical is the O&G are not in financial jeopardy, THEY ( not the government) gouge the fuck out of people they are greedy fuckers who only care about the millions are billions of $$$ that get paid to their shareholders and executives.