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Post by arizonastamplover on Jul 29, 2021 22:37:27 GMT
As a follow-up to my last post about documentation needed for my niece visiting, I'm have a different question about her visit and I am very conflicted.
My husband and I do not have kids, so sometimes I agree that we don't see the impact of our decisions on kids. This is a COVID related question, and my husband and I feel the way that we do (although somewhat differently at the moment).
With the increase in cases, and my husband seeing more people coming to work with COVID or calling out from work because of COVID, we are concerned. We were ok earlier this summer when things were looking good, but Arizona is not looking good at the moment (where we live). We are both vaccinated, as is my niece. My husband wants to turn off the trip (in a week) where my niece was going to spend almost 3 weeks out here. He is worried about my health (high risk, although vaccinated), but also my parents health when my niece returns (my mother is very high risk, but also vaccinated).
For those with children, cancelling a trip like this - have you seen your children understand why? She is 14, and she is sooo excited for this trip. I hate the thought of letting her down. I'm more inclined to allow her to come out, if just for that reason.
Any thoughts? It's probably crazy to ask to hold any political discussion - for us this is not political but what we believe. I just want to understand from a parents perspective before I talk to my sister about it (we have had a rocky relationship, so I want to get my thoughts collected more before that discussion).
Thanks!
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Post by christine58 on Jul 29, 2021 22:41:04 GMT
I think if you’re careful while she is there, limit where you go,wear a mask etc she should still come. Maybe get her tested before she goes back?
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Post by myboysnme on Jul 29, 2021 22:45:08 GMT
If you are all vaccinated then I would have her visit unless this is just a good reason to call off a trip you aren't that enthusiastic about anyway. 3 weeks with someone else's child, even one you love, especially when you are not used to kids is a very long time. My own grandmother sent me home from a week long visit after 3 days, and that was in the early 1970s.
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Post by malibou on Jul 29, 2021 22:49:41 GMT
With all of you being vaccinnated, I would let her come and tell her to bring masks. I would take her for a test before sending her back home.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Jul 29, 2021 22:56:00 GMT
Let her come. Wear masks when you go out & follow social distancing guidelines just in case. No mosh pits My friend is double vaxxed & she is going to Kelowna, BC in a few weeks, because she committed to it, and she has done it before during Covid. Kelowna is one of British Columbia's hot spots.
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Post by mikklynn on Jul 30, 2021 12:22:24 GMT
You are all vaccinated, so let her come.
You can mask up where there are larger numbers of people.
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Post by kitkath on Jul 30, 2021 12:27:16 GMT
Let her come.
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Post by librarylady on Jul 30, 2021 12:30:36 GMT
She is old enough for a vaccine now, so why isn't she getting vaccinated before coming? She could get #1 at home and then #2 at your home and go home totally vaccinated.
The idea of being tested before going home is a good idea.
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Post by allison1954 on Jul 30, 2021 12:31:51 GMT
She is old enough for a vaccine now, so why isn't she getting vaccinated before coming? She could get #1 at home and then #2 at your home and go home totally vaccinated. The idea of being tested before going home is a good idea. Her niece is vaccinated, says the OP
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Post by librarylady on Jul 30, 2021 12:32:45 GMT
She is old enough for a vaccine now, so why isn't she getting vaccinated before coming? She could get #1 at home and then #2 at your home and go home totally vaccinated. The idea of being tested before going home is a good idea. Her niece is vaccinated, says the OP Thanks. I read too fast and missed that.
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Post by Zee on Jul 30, 2021 12:46:18 GMT
How long will your husband expect you to sequester yourself? When will he be comfortable with her visiting? You're all vaxxed, I'd let her come regardless but I'm not high risk AND run far more risk of being infected at work than I would from one vaccinated niece. So take that with a grain of salt.
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pridemom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,843
Jul 12, 2014 21:58:10 GMT
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Post by pridemom on Jul 30, 2021 13:05:13 GMT
I am high risk. The delta variant is contagious even to those who are vaccinated. My state is a bad hotspot and we are again wearing masks outside of our home when indoors. I don’t envy your decision.
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Post by dewryce on Jul 30, 2021 13:17:32 GMT
The CDC has a document now that suggests it’s as easy to spread as chick pox, and has an R0 of 8 or 9. And that the vaccinated carry just as much viral load and spread it just as easily. Most vaccinated people will have a mild case. Of those that don’t I saw in another article that about half of those (44% IIRC) that don’t are immunocompromised. Just some information to have at hand when you talk to her. Let me go find the article and link it for you.(eta: Here you go.) If she comes, I think having a test before she goes home is a good idea, as is having one before she comes. And y’all need to mask everywhere indoors unless you live in an area that’s not having big issues.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 30, 2021 14:10:06 GMT
The CDC has a document now that suggests it’s as easy to spread as chick pox, and has an R0 of 8 or 9. And that the vaccinated carry just as much viral load and spread it just as easily. Most vaccinated people will have a mild case. Of those that don’t I saw in another article that about half of those (44% IIRC) that don’t are immunocompromised. Just some information to have at hand when you talk to her. Let me go find the article and link it for you.(eta: Here you go.) If she comes, I think having a test before she goes home is a good idea, as is having one before she comes. And y’all need to mask everywhere indoors unless you live in an area that’s not having big issues. I read somewhere else that the discussion of viral load for vaccinated people was based on an Indian study using a vaccine not approved in the US, so I do think more information is needed on that aspect. Even in areas where Delta is predominate in the US, those in the hospital and dying are still overwhelmingly the unvaccinated.
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Post by Really Red on Jul 30, 2021 14:30:55 GMT
My DD is super high risk. She is vaccinated as is our whole family. I am often worried for her, but in the exact circumstances you state, I would let my niece come. If you end up saying no, I'd come up with something so spectacular as a replacement that she won't feel so sad.
This is hard for everyone. Sometimes you have to cancel and that is completely your decision - it is not right or wrong, it's what it is. But if you do, just make sure that she knows how hard a decision it was and how much fun she's going to have when you do the next great thing with her. If she does come, then set down some rules.
Finally, I know that you are aware that even if you do get the variant or the real, you are likely not going to even notice. I think it's worth it, but you know you.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 16:40:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2021 14:55:29 GMT
I would go with a better safe than sorry approach and postpone the trip. It is not a cancellation , just a delay.
I would also let your niece know how much you are looking forward to seeing her another time and how it is a shame that circumstances have forced a change of plan and may be buy her a present of some sort to make it up to her and show her you care.
I think it could still possibly risk hurt feelings and misunderstandings though ,it is not easy to let someone down because of health reasons even though it is not your fault.
It can be hard decision to make without feeling guilty , especially given her age and excitement about the trip but you are not responsible for the increased risk, and it is you that could pay a heavy price if something unfortunate were to happen.
May be keep in touch with ideas and plans of things to do and places to visit when she is able to visit in the future ( if you decide not to go ahead )
edited to add - just seen auntkellys post below , seeing a doctor for advice is a really good idea, then if advised that it could risky at the present time you could say it was on doctors orders , and that might not cause a possible rift.
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Post by auntkelly on Jul 30, 2021 15:09:17 GMT
You know your family best, but I don't think you can cancel this trip without hurting your niece's feelings.
To be perfectly frank, it sounds to me like your husband is looking for an excuse to cancel the trip. It does sound like a long visit. Was he completely on board when it was being planned?
Have you talked to your doctor about the risk of having your fully vaccinated niece visit you? I would start there.
Perhaps you could call your niece and explain that if she comes now, you'll pretty much be staying home due to covid, whereas if she waits until the numbers are down, you'll do a lot more sightseeing, shopping and eating out.
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Post by annie on Jul 30, 2021 15:14:29 GMT
Like most of the responses, I would let her come. With everyone being vaccinated, if you take normal precautions there really isn't a need to cancel.
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AmeliaBloomer
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,842
Location: USA
Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Jul 30, 2021 15:21:04 GMT
I like the mantra a friend of mine has: “When it comes to COVID precautions, go with the desires of the most cautious person in the group.”
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 30, 2021 15:27:10 GMT
I would feel comfortable in your situation, but I am not you.
I can tell you, however, that my kids would completely get it if you cancelled.
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Post by bc2ca on Jul 30, 2021 15:31:15 GMT
For those with children, cancelling a trip like this - have you seen your children understand why? She is 14, and she is sooo excited for this trip. I hate the thought of letting her down. I'm more inclined to allow her to come out, if just for that reason. To answer your question, yes, a 14 year old will understand why the trip is canceled. I know you don't want a political discussion, but the reality is her level of understanding will be influenced by where she is coming from and the attitude of her family and friends toward the pandemic. More than just that fact you all vaccinated comes into play when deciding whether to go ahead with the trip. What did you plan to do during the three weeks? How much would you be out and about in the community?
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Post by Basket1lady on Jul 30, 2021 15:31:21 GMT
I’d let her come. I agree that many of the stats are with other vaccines. Your risk of being seriously ill is very, very small. Have her tested when she arrives if it will give you some peace of mind. Plan activities for outdoor places and wear masks. I wouldn’t go to a movie theatre, but I would rent a movie that she wants to watch, make popcorn and a fancy non-alcoholic drink. I wouldn’t go to a concert, but I’d rock out to some music that she wants to share with you.
I feel your concern—I feel like every choice I make every day is riding a line between living my life and risking my life. Covid sucks.
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Post by CardBoxer on Jul 30, 2021 15:53:23 GMT
If your niece comes, it could be time to purchase N95 or government approved KN95s from Korea - there’s a list. Millions of counterfeit masks have been seized. It’s insane that type of mask and how to check for fit isn’t more part of the ongoing conversation by the CDC, local and federal governments, or even employers. Masking with a strip of cloth over one’s face does not stop the delta variant. There are too many leaks because our faces aren’t flat. It’s too transmissible. Wearing N95s or approved KN95s worn correctly do help. “A confidential CDC document said delta is more transmissible than the common cold, the 1918 Spanish flu, smallpox, Ebola, MERS and SARS.” I think some of the best articles about it are behind paywalls, but here are a couple: www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/07/delta-transmission-vaccines/619615/“And while Delta is still less likely to set up shop in someone who’s been immunized, it might be better equipped than other variants to cause severe symptoms when it does.” www.cnbc.com/2021/07/30/delta-cdc-warns-variant-is-as-contagious-as-chickenpox-may-make-people-sicker.htmlAbout masks - and if it’s behind a paywall, I’ll copy and post some parts: www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/n95-mask-delta-variant-kn95/2021/07/23/ee849e6c-eafe-11eb-97a0-a09d10181e36_story.html“In an interview with The Washington Post, Monica Gandhi, a professor of medicine and an infectious-disease expert at the University of California at San Francisco, expressed a similar sentiment: “We can’t say we’re going back to masks without discussing type of mask.””
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Post by dewryce on Jul 30, 2021 16:04:53 GMT
The CDC has a document now that suggests it’s as easy to spread as chick pox, and has an R0 of 8 or 9. And that the vaccinated carry just as much viral load and spread it just as easily. Most vaccinated people will have a mild case. Of those that don’t I saw in another article that about half of those (44% IIRC) that don’t are immunocompromised. Just some information to have at hand when you talk to her. Let me go find the article and link it for you.(eta: Here you go.) If she comes, I think having a test before she goes home is a good idea, as is having one before she comes. And y’all need to mask everywhere indoors unless you live in an area that’s not having big issues. I read somewhere else that the discussion of viral load for vaccinated people was based on an Indian study using a vaccine not approved in the US, so I do think more information is needed on that aspect. Even in areas where Delta is predominate in the US, those in the hospital and dying are still overwhelmingly the unvaccinated. Oh I completely agree, just putting out there what is being discussed now; that’s the best we can do I think. Will look into the source for the info, all I’ve read is that it was included in a CDC document, which the director confirmed. Thanks! And yes, it’s definitely more severe for the unvaccinated; but as with the original iteration, the high risk group is the group most often having the more severe breakthrough cases. I think that detail isn’t stressed enough. Would make more people feel better, and the group that truly needs the information would hopefully be more cautious.
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Post by dewryce on Jul 30, 2021 16:11:11 GMT
I like the mantra a friend of mine has: “When it comes to COVID precautions, go with the desires of the most cautious person in the group.” This is the stance DH and I have taken on any health or safety issue throughout our marriage and it has saved us so many disagreements. Most conservative viewpoint wins, we don’t even have to have a discussion. If the less conservative wants to do the research and make a case go for it, we listen with an open mind, but there is no pressure to change our mind. He tends to be more cautious with the physical stuff (driving, rides, jumping off buildings and airplanes) and I do about illnesses so it works out well for each of us.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 30, 2021 17:16:55 GMT
I read somewhere else that the discussion of viral load for vaccinated people was based on an Indian study using a vaccine not approved in the US, so I do think more information is needed on that aspect. Even in areas where Delta is predominate in the US, those in the hospital and dying are still overwhelmingly the unvaccinated. Oh I completely agree, just putting out there what is being discussed now; that’s the best we can do I think. Will look into the source for the info, all I’ve read is that it was included in a CDC document, which the director confirmed. Thanks! And yes, it’s definitely more severe for the unvaccinated; but as with the original iteration, the high risk group is the group most often having the more severe breakthrough cases. I think that detail isn’t stressed enough. Would make more people feel better, and the group that truly needs the information would hopefully be more cautious. This gives a summary of some of the early findings. It looks like the 2 dose vaccines are much more effective than the 1 dose vaccines. It references the study in India that the article I read last night must have referenced: asm.org/Articles/2021/July/How-Dangerous-is-the-Delta-Variant-B-1-617-2It's definitely early days, but hopefully the fact that most here have received a 2 dose vs a 1 dose vaccine will help keep this variant more in check - at least in areas where vaccination rates are high.
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Post by dewryce on Jul 30, 2021 17:51:42 GMT
Oh I completely agree, just putting out there what is being discussed now; that’s the best we can do I think. Will look into the source for the info, all I’ve read is that it was included in a CDC document, which the director confirmed. Thanks! And yes, it’s definitely more severe for the unvaccinated; but as with the original iteration, the high risk group is the group most often having the more severe breakthrough cases. I think that detail isn’t stressed enough. Would make more people feel better, and the group that truly needs the information would hopefully be more cautious. This gives a summary of some of the early findings. It looks like the 2 dose vaccines are much more effective than the 1 dose vaccines. It references the study in India that the article I read last night must have referenced: asm.org/Articles/2021/July/How-Dangerous-is-the-Delta-Variant-B-1-617-2It's definitely early days, but hopefully the fact that most here have received a 2 dose vs a 1 dose vaccine will help keep this variant more in check - at least in areas where vaccination rates are high. Thanks! I was just coming here to ask you if you remembered the article because I went through all of a news search from the 1st page of Google and I can’t find it. Will go read that, I have also seen a lot of news about the 2 dose treatments working better. Interestingly, I just read something that suggested J&J might work better after the first shot than any of the other vaccines (against Delta specifically), but that a second dose is probably needed for those numbers to hold true. And some places are mixing shots with good results in t-cells reactions (not necessarily antibody response). And Israel is starting booster shots/3rd doses on some higher risk people, and I think they’re the same ones who have allowed shots for severely immunocompromised children over 5. So I am looking forward to a lot of helpful data coming from these other countries hopefully sooner than later! I hope so, but Israel used mostly Pfizer-Biotech and their numbers are pretty abysmal for breakthrough infections. They specifically mention higher numbers for those vaccinated earliest, strongly suggesting a decent waning efficacy. Same as with the Indian data though, it’s early days; but something to keep an eye out for since they’ve been dealing with it longer than we have so their early days aren't as early as ours
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Post by voltagain on Jul 30, 2021 18:43:13 GMT
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jul 30, 2021 19:09:16 GMT
Do you have a summary? It's behind a paywall.
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Post by dewryce on Jul 30, 2021 19:23:50 GMT
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