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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 13:38:15 GMT
Let me add onto the post by onelasttime about the RNC scrubbing their page. Here is a tweet with a screen shot. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 13:38:31 GMT
iamkristinl16 revirdsuba99Again, I am simply pointing out the statement in the OP that “Trump started the withdrawal”. And again I will say I’m sure he screwed plenty up, but he most certainly did not start the withdrawal. That was my point.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 13:39:42 GMT
I agree with the withdrawal but you’re saying Trump started the withdrawal? Please explain how you’re laying this at Trump’s feet. June 22, 2011: Obama announces troop draw downs to begin in Afghanistan. May 27, 2014: Obama announces plan for full troop withdrawal from Afghanistan by end of 2016. Aug. 21, 2017: President Donald Trump cautions against "hasty" troop withdrawal from Afghanistan that "would create a vacuum." Trump said that he shares Americans' "frustration" with foreign wars, assures that "we are not nation-building again; we are killing terrorists." www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/15/timeline-afghanistans-history-and-us-involvement/8143131002/What I do hold Trump responsible for is that he allowed the release of many of the fighters that are responsible for the take over you see before you. |
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lindas on Aug 16, 2021 13:45:30 GMT
It’s now being reported that the US has suspended all evacuations flights due to the unsafe conditions at the airport. Should we assume that the U.S. got out all of the Afghan civilians (and their families) that were working with our government? It's not possible to evacuate every single person who does not want to live in Afghanistan, just like we can't possibly take every single immigrant who decides to cross our borders illegally. Absolutely not. There was no way they had enough time to evacuate everyone that needed to be evacuated. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 13:50:03 GMT
iamkristinl16 revirdsuba99Again, I am simply pointing out the statement in the OP that “Trump started the withdrawal”. And again I will say I’m sure he screwed plenty up, but he most certainly did not start the withdrawal. That was my point. Actually he did. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 13:55:15 GMT
It’s now being reported that the US has suspended all evacuations flights due to the unsafe conditions at the airport. Should we assume that the U.S. got out all of the Afghan civilians (and their families) that were working with our government? It's not possible to evacuate every single person who does not want to live in Afghanistan, just like we can't possibly take every single immigrant who decides to cross our borders illegally. No they are not all out. There might even be American citizens at the airport waiting with others. The issue right now is the blocked runways. The military is attempting to clear the airport/runways so the planes can land and take off. |
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Post by onelasttime on Aug 16, 2021 13:58:53 GMT
Again I really do feel for the people of Afghanistan.
But, they were given the opportunity to live life without the Taliban. They had 20 years to prepare for it. Their military was trained, given weapons, and it numbered over 300,000 compared to the 90,000 Taliban.
What did the people of Afghanistan think the US and coalition troops were going to do? Stay in Afghanistan forever to act as their protector instead of them taking the reins and protecting themselves?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 14:03:27 GMT
CNN: US Troops just shot and killed two ARMED men who fired at troops at Kabul Airport
The Taliban has been attempting to assist with the crowd headed toward the airport and at the airport.
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Post by aj2hall on Aug 16, 2021 14:04:48 GMT
iamkristinl16 You are missing most of Trump's term in your statement. You don't think he said or did anything regarding Afghanistan in that 3.5years? Or is it that Fox isn't covering that right now? For the record, the only Fox News I see is on the first floor of my building. There is a tv mounted on the wall across from the elevator. Idk who has the remote and chooses the channel, but it isn’t me. Way to assume though. Says more about you. I was simply addressing the statement in the OP “Trump started the withdrawal.” There was talk and promises of withdrawal and the withdrawal of troops loooooong before Trump was a blip on the political radar. I cannot tell you what he did in the last 3.5 years because I no longer watch the news. I’m sure he screwed plenty up, but he most certainly did not start the withdrawal. I’m simply trying to be factual. Not political. If you wanted to be factual, you should have also included the events that happened under former’s administration. |
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Post by onelasttime on Aug 16, 2021 14:08:19 GMT
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lindas on Aug 16, 2021 14:09:48 GMT
If you want to assign blame for what’s taking place then let’s start with Clinton. If he had taken out binLaden when he had a chance maybe 9/11 would never have happened and then we wouldn’t have ever been in Afghanistan. It doesn’t matter who started the withdrawal, the bottom line is Biden is President and as Truman said “the buck stops here”. Time for him to come out the the Camp David basement and admit that his intelligence agency dropped the ball on how fast the Taliban would move in and take over.
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Post by onelasttime on Aug 16, 2021 14:09:51 GMT
I never understood how trump and I guess members of the coalition could try and negotiate a deal with a terrorist group and leave the Afghanistan Government out of the negotiations.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 14:10:59 GMT
In hindsight this for sure could have done much better. After the Biden decision in April, the military/civilian flights could have started removing those who assisted us, maybe some every day.. of course I have no clue of the real logistics..
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 16:33:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 14:11:51 GMT
iamkristinl16 revirdsuba99Again, I am simply pointing out the statement in the OP that “Trump started the withdrawal”. And again I will say I’m sure he screwed plenty up, but he most certainly did not start the withdrawal. That was my point. Actually he did. Actually he didn’t start the withdrawal of the troops. Did he withdraw troops during his term? Yes. Did he START the withdrawal. He most certainly did not. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 14:16:24 GMT
Well then I guess we can say Biden didn't start it either.
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Post by onelasttime on Aug 16, 2021 14:16:54 GMT
Actually he didn’t start the withdrawal of the troops. Did he withdraw troops during his term? Yes. Did he START the withdrawal. He most certainly did not. Really? trump didn’t start the process? Well you had better tell trump that he didn’t start the process because he said he did…. |
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Just T
Drama Llama
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Post by Just T on Aug 16, 2021 14:17:49 GMT
It doesn’t matter who started the withdrawal, the bottom line is Biden is President and as Truman said “the buck stops here”. Time for him to come out the the Camp David basement and admit that his intelligence agency dropped the ball on how fast the Taliban would move in and take over. I happen to agree with you. Biden grossly underestimated that power the Taliban still has, even after 20 years. This will definitely be a huge stain on his record. However, I have to ask you, where were your "the buck stops here" after the shitshow of January 6? Or when Trump purposely misled the American people about the seriousness of Covid? Or any number of things that happened on Trump's watch? Again, I think the way Biden handled this is abysmal. It is so frustrating and heartbreaking that after twenty years, this is how it ends. But to hold Trump blameless is wrong, wrong wrong, no matter who the president is now. The person who is now leading the Taliban was in prison until Trump let him out in 2018. And what about the other thousands of prisoners he let out who are now most likely a part of what is happening now? Can you at the very least admit that is playing a part in this? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 14:18:19 GMT
Again I really do feel for the people of Afghanistan. But, they were given the opportunity to live life without the Taliban. They had 20 years to prepare for it. Their military was trained, given weapons, and it numbered over 300,000 compared to the 90,000 Taliban. What did the people of Afghanistan think the US and coalition troops were going to do? Stay in Afghanistan forever to act as their protector instead of them taking the reins and protecting themselves? Blaming the Afghani people is just like blaming the Palestinian people or the Iraqi people, or any other third world country that has fallen to some militant group. The majority of these people are just trying to get through the day...providing food and shelter for their families. Sooooo many of these people are poverty stricken in ways that is incomprehensible to Americans. It is the militant groups that prey on these people because they KNOW they are easily persuaded by money, medicine or basic needs. If my family were starving, I wouldn't give two shits about the political/religious persuasion of where the food was coming from...I would do what I have to do for survival. It is very easy for all of us, myself included, to armchair quarterback the situation. But until you really see how most of these people live, I feel sure you would not wag your finger at the people themselves. Almost all lack the education, the resources and even the will to fight back. I can't even begin to imagine the mental wounds that these people have. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 14:21:55 GMT
Better yet the former's speech, I started it, is on YouTube, just posting the link.. youtu.be/PAr3NpYVkpI |
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 16, 2021 14:36:23 GMT
Every administration including the Clinton administration deserves some blame for Afghanistan. Biden will be remembered for ending it, and for the botched evacuation of our Afghan allies. But he is far from alone. The truth is, we should never have started a full war there. Bin Laden was targeted and killed thru intelligence and special forces.
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Post by onelasttime on Aug 16, 2021 14:37:20 GMT
Again I really do feel for the people of Afghanistan. But, they were given the opportunity to live life without the Taliban. They had 20 years to prepare for it. Their military was trained, given weapons, and it numbered over 300,000 compared to the 90,000 Taliban. What did the people of Afghanistan think the US and coalition troops were going to do? Stay in Afghanistan forever to act as their protector instead of them taking the reins and protecting themselves? Blaming the Afghani people is just like blaming the Palestinian people or the Iraqi people, or any other third world country that has fallen to some militant group. The majority of these people are just trying to get through the day...providing food and shelter for their families. Sooooo many of these people are poverty stricken in ways that is incomprehensible to Americans. It is the militant groups that prey on these people because they KNOW they are easily persuaded by money, medicine or basic needs. If my family were starving, I wouldn't give two shits about the political/religious persuasion of where the food was coming from...I would do what I have to do for survival. It is very easy for all of us, myself included, to armchair quarterback the situation. But until you really see how most of these people live, I feel sure you would not wag your finger at the people themselves. Almost all lack the education, the resources and even the will to fight back. I can't even begin to imagine the mental wounds that these people have. I understand what you are saying. I really do. But the people had 20 years to prepare for the day they would have to defend themselves against the Taliban. If that wasn’t enough time how much longer do you think they would have needed? Seriously. How much longer should the US put our men and women in harms way and how much more money should we spend in Afghanistan when that money could be better spent here for things like getting the homeless off the streets for people who seem to lack the will to defend themselves? 20 years they had to prepare. 20 years. |
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Post by onelasttime on Aug 16, 2021 14:44:26 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 15:09:05 GMT
Biden is expected to speak from the East Room at the WH about 3:45 this afternoon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 15:10:58 GMT
onelasttimeThe Afghani people do not look at life through a political lense, it is merely day to day survival. You simply cannot compare the luxury of thought that people have in places like the UK or America. Because our countries are so advanced, we have the luxury, the education to discern our futures. Can you imagine if you were living in a lean-to of discarded metal, living in the same clothes day after day...would you be all about what political party was ruling the country. I don't think I would. I personally know Palestinians that have grown up in Gaza and listen to how demoralized the people are there of the constant fighting and bombing. I would imagine that the regular Afghani people have been demoralized in much the same way. The Taliban has been there for a very long time. They are well-organized, well-funded and everywhere. I would also question just how well the military was trained. Did they even show up? Did they take the money and leave? WE chose to invade Afghanistan. Absa-freaking-lutely the money could have been spent a THOUSAND ways better. But pouring money into a highly corrupt country was not the best choice on our part. If the Russians and the US Forces could not extinguish the Taliban, what hope do the regular people have that have ZERO access to any kind of resources to fight back? I think it was complete insanity to just leave the US bases loaded up for the Taliban to come in like it was Christmas and take it all.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 15:18:47 GMT
We can blame each administration for their part in this shit show, but it is so multi-faceted that not one person or administration is responsible. IMO, our involvement in the Iran-Iraq war started the ball rolling. Heck, maybe even before that. The desire for the US to have some "base" of influence for political/strategic gain was not entirely welcome. Was it for oil resources, to keep Iran in check? I don't know. What I do know, is that I look around to all of these places where we have meddled in the governments for our own interests (Central America and the Middle East just to name two) and I can't really tell that anything good has come from it.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Aug 16, 2021 15:26:05 GMT
This precipitated US departure and the chaos it's causing (including the need to do emergency evacuations for most other countries present in Afghanistan) really will be the images remembered of these 20 years. This could've been handled way better.
Who's not leaving? Russia. *dun dun dun* Didn't see that one coming. /s
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 15:31:07 GMT
Gen McKenzie and the Taliban in a meeting in Qatar.. the Taliban will not interfer with the evacuations at the airport. The General did say our military would fully defend the airport and people. Note: the airport is presently open. The U.S. military temporarily suspended operations at the Kabul airport due to Afghans rushing onto the airfield. Around 3,500 U.S. Embassy personnel are still waiting to be evacuated at the airport, CNN reports. "Tomorrow and over the coming days, we will be transferring out of the country thousands of American citizens who have been resident in Afghanistan, as well as locally employed staff of the U.S. mission in Kabul and their families and other particularly vulnerable Afghan nationals," the Department of Defense and the Department of State said in a joint statement. *** And we will accelerate the evacuation of thousands of Afghans eligible for U.S. Special Immigrant Visas, nearly 2,000 of whom have already arrived in the United States over the past two weeks." thehill.com/policy/international/middle-east-north-africa/568003-central-command-chief-taliban-leaders-reached |
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lindas on Aug 16, 2021 15:35:35 GMT
This precipitated US departure and the chaos it's causing (including the need to do emergency evacuations for most other countries present in Afghanistan) really will be the images remembered of these 20 years. This could've been handled way better. Who's not leaving? Russia. *dun dun dun* Didn't see that one coming. /s Let’s not leave out China since they already recognize the Taliban as the official government. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Aug 16, 2021 15:42:01 GMT
We can blame each administration for their part in this shit show, but it is so multi-faceted that not one person or administration is responsible. IMO, our involvement in the Iran-Iraq war started the ball rolling. Heck, maybe even before that. The desire for the US to have some "base" of influence for political/strategic gain was not entirely welcome. Was it for oil resources, to keep Iran in check? I don't know. What I do know, is that I look around to all of these places where we have meddled in the governments for our own interests (Central America and the Middle East just to name two) and I can't really tell that anything good has come from it. I can understand that their life is much different than ours. But I do also think that some responsibility lies on the afghani people to determine the course of their country. I was just listening to a podcast and a woman was documenting her attempts to leave the country. She said she thinks this is an embarrassment for the world to abandon them like that. I can see where she is coming from, especially in this time of desperation. But there was also no acknowledgment that their own military made deals with the Taliban and it sounds like sold them all out. And their president left the country, seemingly without doing anything to help others leave as well. In a quote up thread, Biden asked is someone would send their son there to fight if casualties started up again. Seeing what has happened in the last few days would leave me more emphatically saying no. However, I do wish there was a way to get everyone out that wanted to leave. And it makes me fearful of what will happen to those left behind, as well as for the safety of people if Afghanistan is a safe haven for terrorists again. |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Aug 16, 2021 15:49:07 GMT
This precipitated US departure and the chaos it's causing (including the need to do emergency evacuations for most other countries present in Afghanistan) really will be the images remembered of these 20 years. This could've been handled way better. Who's not leaving? Russia. *dun dun dun* Didn't see that one coming. /s Let’s not leave out China since they already recognize the Taliban as the official government. And it'll be Biden's government's burden to carry considering the exclusion of the European Union at the March summit on the Afghan situation. Blinken did not invite the EU to the March 18 summit in Moscow organised by the American administration. The invited countries were Russia, China, Pakistan, Iran and India first and foremost. Meanwhile, who was the first financial contributor to civil causes in Afghanistan over the past 20 years? The EU. It was a massive blow to the most invested countries like Germany and Norway. Came out of nowhere. Clearly, the US wanted to get rid of this sensitive file ASAP. The talk around Brussels was that the US negotiated a deal with Russia first and foremost on taking over the Afghan situation. So anyway, this departure and the 7-day road back to power of the Talibans is a mess and it will be the US legacy to carry. This was never going to be an easy situation but this was far from the best scenario available. Heck, it might well be one of the worst. |
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