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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:10:43 GMT
Didn’t want to hijack the anti ax thread…
So…here’s a dilemma/situation or question…
Everyone at work, except one person, is vaccinated.
Our boss asked our vaccination status this week, because we are in a now red alert county, 2 of our workers are immune compromised (but we’re vaccinated) and mask mandates are being discussed at city levels, and boss requires us to all wear masks unless in our own individual space, and Monday we are going back to masks, and requiring all clients to wear a mask upon entry.
So this one person, a 20 year old, stated that she won’t get the vaccine. She’s an awesome worker, and I know she’s said that if boss says she has to get it in order to work—she’s not getting it. Any the reasoning she’s given is it’s her choice,
A few employees are uncomfortable about working with/around her now. And it’s impossible for what we do/she goes to work remotely or segregated from everyone else all day, plus we deal with customers.
What are your thoughts on this?
What do you think our boss’s options are?
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Post by Delta Dawn on Aug 14, 2021 17:17:02 GMT
I was told by a very prominent employment lawyer that if a business wants to get rid of someone they will find a way. That is the boss’ only option. He/she may have to pay some severence pay but they can get rid of her for a reason.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 14, 2021 17:18:57 GMT
Is Ohio (that's where you are right?) A right to work state? If so, they have the right to fire you without any cause whatsoever.
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Post by MichyM on Aug 14, 2021 17:23:19 GMT
So this one person, a 20 year old, stated that she won’t get the vaccine. She’s an awesome worker, and I know she’s said that if boss says she has to get it in order to work—she’s not getting it. Any the reasoning she’s given is it’s her choice,
Employees are replaceable, no matter how awesome they are. If she can't help to keep her place of employment and fellow employees free from the virus, IMHO she can find a new job. Boss needs to either fire her or implement a vax requirement. Full stop.
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,686
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Aug 14, 2021 17:24:36 GMT
Is Ohio (that's where you are right?) A right to work state? If so, they have the right to fire you without any cause whatsoever. Having worked in Ohio, yes they are. Is there a vaccine requirement at your job? If not then the boss could (probably should) create one. Regardless he could fire her for any reason if he wanted to. Personally I think it’s too soon for vaccine requirements (pre full FDA approval, at least) but I don’t think it’d be unreasonable for the boss to require N95 masks for unvaxxed employees. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:27:46 GMT
I was told by a very prominent employment lawyer that if a business wants to get rid of someone they will find a way. That is the boss’ only option. He/she may have to pay some severence pay but they can get rid of her for a reason. We are in at “at will state” and do not need cause to let someone go. However, bosses are paying close attention to any legalities involved. They’re just trying to figure out a path to tread. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:28:37 GMT
Is Ohio (that's where you are right?) A right to work state? If so, they have the right to fire you without any cause whatsoever. EDITED: “at will” state with the meaning you supplied. And in this case, if bosses do require it, she’d quit. “Right to work” applied only to unionized work, which Ohio is not. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 14, 2021 17:32:43 GMT
Are you saying that it wouldn’t work to make her work remotely? Because that would be one solution. Firing her if she refuses to get vaccinated is also a good idea. Making her wear N95 masks plus weekly testing is another option.
I like all 3. Personally, I would give her an ultimatum and fire her if she refuses. BUT it might be hard to replace her right now, so the other two options could work better.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:32:43 GMT
Is Ohio (that's where you are right?) A right to work state? If so, they have the right to fire you without any cause whatsoever. Having worked in Ohio, yes they are. Is there a vaccine requirement at your job? If not then the boss could (probably should) create one. Regardless he could fire her for any reason if he wanted to. Personally I think it’s too soon for vaccine requirements (pre full FDA approval, at least) but I don’t think it’d be unreasonable for the boss to require N95 masks for unvaxxed employees. Correct on state. Bosses are looking into making it a requirement watching closely how that’s panning out in other companies—for example at least 2 of the major medical/hospitals here now require it or employees lose their job. We are a small, under 20 employee private business. I’ll mention to them having her wear a N95 until we sort this out. (She’s wearing a cloth mask now). |
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Post by PolarGreen12 on Aug 14, 2021 17:35:31 GMT
I’m so thankful my entire office got the vaccine. We didn’t have any holdouts.
I know my friend’s employer has two employees who will not get the vaccine. He is not choosing to fire them over it at this time. But he is requiring that they wear a mask at all times and get a weekly Covid test, on Sundays before being allowed to work the week, on their dime.
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:36:25 GMT
Are you saying that it wouldn’t work to make her work remotely? Because that would be one solution. Firing her if she refuses to get vaccinated is also a good idea. Making her wear N95 masks plus weekly testing is another option. I like all 3. Personally, I would give her an ultimatum and fire her if she refuses. BUT it might be hard to replace her right now, so the other two options could work better. Yes, the job she does requires her to be in house. The thing here is she’s telling bosses that if required to work she’s not getting the vaccine, so she is the one giving them an ultimatum! (Which pisses bosses off even more than refusing!) Bosses just texted me this all this morning, so I’m telling them to breathe, think, not make a snap decision… |
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Post by voltagain on Aug 14, 2021 17:36:42 GMT
Didn’t want to hijack the anti ax thread… So…here’s a dilemma/situation or question… Everyone at work, except one person, is vaccinated. Our boss asked our vaccination status this week, because we are in a now red alert county, 2 of our workers are immune compromised (but we’re vaccinated) and mask mandates are being discussed at city levels, and boss requires us to all wear masks unless in our own individual space, and Monday we are going back to masks, and requiring all clients to wear a mask upon entry. So this one person, a 20 year old, stated that she won’t get the vaccine. She’s an awesome worker, and I know she’s said that if boss says she has to get it in order to work—she’s not getting it. Any the reasoning she’s given is it’s her choice, A few employees are uncomfortable about working with/around her now. And it’s impossible for what we do/she goes to work remotely or segregated from everyone else all day, plus we deal with customers. What are your thoughts on this? What do you think our boss’s options are? My state is antigovernmental involvement in nearly everything covid related. But even our governor has said that businesses can require vaccination. The employee has a right to refuse but also will need to seek other employment if they refuse. They don't have job protection. Courts around the nation have already set precedence the employers can require vaccination of employees. |
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Aug 14, 2021 17:38:44 GMT
Ohio isn't right to work.
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 14, 2021 17:38:48 GMT
Are you saying that it wouldn’t work to make her work remotely? Because that would be one solution. Firing her if she refuses to get vaccinated is also a good idea. Making her wear N95 masks plus weekly testing is another option. I like all 3. Personally, I would give her an ultimatum and fire her if she refuses. BUT it might be hard to replace her right now, so the other two options could work better. Yes, the job she does requires her to be in house. The thing here is she’s telling bosses that if required to work she’s not getting the vaccine, so she is the one giving them an ultimatum! (Which pisses bosses off even more than refusing!) Bosses just texted me this all this morning, so I’m telling them to breathe, think, not make a snap decision… Maybe they should begin to look for a replacement. If they find one, demand that she get vaccinated. She’ll quit and they will have a replacement. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:41:46 GMT
I’m so thankful my entire office got the vaccine. We didn’t have any holdouts. I know my friend’s employer has two employees who will not get the vaccine. He is not choosing to fire them over it at this time. But he is requiring that they wear a mask at all times and get a weekly Covid test, on Sundays before being allowed to work the week, on their dime. Love the idea of requiring a negative Covid test. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 17:44:40 GMT
Ohio isn't right to work. I changed my response in regards to terminology..a feee we lists up I did state “at will” I went in and clarified my response to jeremysgirl. (Thanks for pointing this out!!) “Right to work” is only applied to unionized work, which we are not union employees We are an “at will state” which means employers need no reason or cause to fire someone. |
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Post by iteach3rdgrade on Aug 14, 2021 17:50:22 GMT
Ohio isn't right to work. I changed my response in regards to terminology.. “Right to work” is only applied to unionized work, which we are not union employees We are an “at will state” which means employers need no reason or cause to fire someone. I was just on confused.  I feel like I'm losing my mind with every piece of information I read on the internet. There's too much fake news everywhere. lol  I look back at past conversations I've had with others and I don't think the labels define it clearly enough. |
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,409 
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Post by cycworker on Aug 14, 2021 17:50:51 GMT
Ohio isn't right to work. I changed my response in regards to terminology..a feee we lists up I did state “at will” I went in and clarified my response to jeremysgirl. (Thanks for pointing this out!!) “Right to work” is only applied to unionized work, which we are not union employees We are an “at will state” which means employers need no reason or cause to fire someone. Honestly? Just fire her. Though I think we also need to make it so these fools who get fired for refusing the vaccine can't receive benefits. Let 'em try to live on whatever savings they have. I'm serious... I've about had enough of this. If they end up homeless, too bad. Choices have consequences. |
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johnnysmom
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,686
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:33 GMT
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Post by johnnysmom on Aug 14, 2021 17:59:45 GMT
Are you saying that it wouldn’t work to make her work remotely? Because that would be one solution. Firing her if she refuses to get vaccinated is also a good idea. Making her wear N95 masks plus weekly testing is another option. I like all 3. Personally, I would give her an ultimatum and fire her if she refuses. BUT it might be hard to replace her right now, so the other two options could work better. Yes, the job she does requires her to be in house. The thing here is she’s telling bosses that if required to work she’s not getting the vaccine, so she is the one giving them an ultimatum! (Which pisses bosses off even more than refusing!) Bosses just texted me this all this morning, so I’m telling them to breathe, think, not make a snap decision… Does she want to get fired? I assume she could collect unemployment if she’s worked long enough and her attitude suggests she’s not all that loyal. (Not getting vaccinated is one thing but she should be helping to come up with alternatives in that situation not just basically daring them to fire her) |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 18:01:30 GMT
I changed my response in regards to terminology..a feee we lists up I did state “at will” I went in and clarified my response to jeremysgirl. (Thanks for pointing this out!!) “Right to work” is only applied to unionized work, which we are not union employees We are an “at will state” which means employers need no reason or cause to fire someone. Honestly? Just fire her. Though I think we also need to make it so these fools who get fired for refusing the vaccine can't receive benefits. Let 'em try to live on whatever savings they have. I'm serious... I've about had enough of this. If they end up homeless, too bad. Choices have consequences. Boss and I had this same convo… Trust me we too often feel this way. I have a sweet dear friend who is a respiratory nurse (she has spent the last 1-1/2 years intubating Covid people and she’s so angry at those who refuse a safe vaccine. I hurt for her and all she (medical professionals go through having to deal with those ignorant dumb ass anti vaxxers. Their refusal outs such s burden of medical professionals. I do think that unless it is a provable medical reason for not getting one, those who refuse to get the vaccine should have to be opted out of their medical insurance ….because all of our rates are going to go up because of this. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 18:02:15 GMT
I changed my response in regards to terminology.. “Right to work” is only applied to unionized work, which we are not union employees We are an “at will state” which means employers need no reason or cause to fire someone. I was just on confused. I feel like I'm losing my mind with every piece of information I read on the internet. There's too much fake news everywhere. lol I look back at past conversations I've had with others and I don't think the labels define it clearly enough. I’m glad you caught that! I do strive to be accurate! Lol |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Aug 14, 2021 18:05:34 GMT
Yes, the job she does requires her to be in house. The thing here is she’s telling bosses that if required to work she’s not getting the vaccine, so she is the one giving them an ultimatum! (Which pisses bosses off even more than refusing!) Bosses just texted me this all this morning, so I’m telling them to breathe, think, not make a snap decision… Does she want to get fired? I assume she could collect unemployment if she’s worked long enough and her attitude suggests she’s not all that loyal. (Not getting vaccinated is one thing but she should be helping to come up with alternatives in that situation not just basically daring them to fire her) From what their text convo was (she messaged boss to say she wasn’t vaccinated) Bosses response was well you’ll need to start that process. She said start what process. Boss said the vaccine process. Her response was if you’re saying I have to be vaccinated in order to work here—I won’t be getting vaccinated. Bosses response after a (30 minute pause) was “may I ask why you are not getting vaccinated” To which her response was “my choice” |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Aug 14, 2021 18:16:03 GMT
Thank you both. I do know the difference between right to work and at will. The words just didn't come to me right. I'm sorry if I led someone down the wrong path. With that said I agree with the poster who said it seems like she's daring them to fire her. |
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Jili
Pearl Clutcher
SLPea
Posts: 4,366
Jun 26, 2014 1:26:48 GMT
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Post by Jili on Aug 14, 2021 18:16:31 GMT
I’m so thankful my entire office got the vaccine. We didn’t have any holdouts. I know my friend’s employer has two employees who will not get the vaccine. He is not choosing to fire them over it at this time. But he is requiring that they wear a mask at all times and get a weekly Covid test, on Sundays before being allowed to work the week, on their dime. Love the idea of requiring a negative Covid test. I like the part about it being on the employees' own dime. |
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Post by candleangie on Aug 14, 2021 18:18:02 GMT
What a charming shut down…I can see why your boss is pissed off.
I work retail….and we have five hold outs at last count. It’s crazy to me. We process 400 transactions daily. That’s 400 people we are exposed to every day, and that’s just the people who buy something. The actual customer count is higher.
Baffling.
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Post by Eddie-n-Harley on Aug 14, 2021 18:19:39 GMT
Are you saying that it wouldn’t work to make her work remotely? Because that would be one solution. Firing her if she refuses to get vaccinated is also a good idea. Making her wear N95 masks plus weekly testing is another option. I like all 3. Personally, I would give her an ultimatum and fire her if she refuses. BUT it might be hard to replace her right now, so the other two options could work better. Yes, the job she does requires her to be in house. The thing here is she’s telling bosses that if required to work she’s not getting the vaccine, so she is the one giving them an ultimatum! (Which pisses bosses off even more than refusing!) Bosses just texted me this all this morning, so I’m telling them to breathe, think, not make a snap decision… Well there ya go. Fire her for that. Insubordination gets lots of people fired. Relatedly, I don't think you qualify for unemployment if you're fired for cause, and failure to comply with your employer's requirements is cause. |
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anaterra
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,134
Location: Texas
Jun 29, 2014 3:04:02 GMT
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Post by anaterra on Aug 14, 2021 18:27:22 GMT
If they implement a "must be vaccinated"... and she makes the choice not to and quits... then boss n company is not responsible... she quit.. thats all on her...
Im not a boss or leader of any sort in my job but im not great with ultimatums.... i think play with fire.... get burned.. better her now, than she carries it is and 1 of you carries it home to a child or grandchild or a vulnerable older person....
Shes making the choice...
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Post by voltagain on Aug 14, 2021 18:29:38 GMT
Does she want to get fired? I assume she could collect unemployment if she’s worked long enough and her attitude suggests she’s not all that loyal. (Not getting vaccinated is one thing but she should be helping to come up with alternatives in that situation not just basically daring them to fire her) From what their text convo was (she messaged boss to say she wasn’t vaccinated) Bosses response was well you’ll need to start that process. She said start what process. Boss said the vaccine process. Her response was if you’re saying I have to be vaccinated in order to work here—I won’t be getting vaccinated. Bosses response after a (30 minute pause) was “may I ask why you are not getting vaccinated” To which her response was “my choice” It is good boss asked in writing so she can't claim religious or disability discrimination later. |
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Post by bluesafyre on Aug 14, 2021 18:34:02 GMT
Yes, the job she does requires her to be in house. The thing here is she’s telling bosses that if required to work she’s not getting the vaccine, so she is the one giving them an ultimatum! (Which pisses bosses off even more than refusing!) Bosses just texted me this all this morning, so I’m telling them to breathe, think, not make a snap decision… Does she want to get fired? I assume she could collect unemployment if she’s worked long enough and her attitude suggests she’s not all that loyal. (Not getting vaccinated is one thing but she should be helping to come up with alternatives in that situation not just basically daring them to fire her) I don't think you can collect unemployment if you have been fired. Maybe this doesn't apply to all states but in Michigan it used to be if you were fired it was your decision so no unemployment. |
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Post by Merge on Aug 14, 2021 18:45:45 GMT
Does she want to get fired? I assume she could collect unemployment if she’s worked long enough and her attitude suggests she’s not all that loyal. (Not getting vaccinated is one thing but she should be helping to come up with alternatives in that situation not just basically daring them to fire her) I don't think you can collect unemployment if you have been fired. Maybe this doesn't apply to all states but in Michigan it used to be if you were fired it was your decision so no unemployment. At least on Texas, you don’t collect unemployment if you were “fired for cause.” Pretty sure failing to follow company policy would be cause for firing. |
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I feel like I'm losing my mind with every piece of information I read on the internet. There's too much fake news everywhere. lol 
I look back at past conversations I've had with others and I don't think the labels define it clearly enough. 
