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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 17:49:59 GMT
"The family of an unvaccinated man who died with COVID-19 said his death had "ripped the family apart" as they urged people to take up the jab. Leslie Lawrenson, better known to his family as Les, was an educated and successful man. The 58-year-old was a solicitor who had a talent for music and magic tricks. He also passionately loved his family. Cambridge educated Leslie Lawrenson was adamant that his body's defences would fight covid Image: Cambridge educated Leslie Lawrenson was adamant that his body's defences would fight covid It was this fierce protectiveness that led Les to urge his family not to take up the offer of a COVID vaccine. His primary concern surrounded the vaccine's long-term effects and he was adamant he could beat the virus using natural immunity. The Cambridge-trained lawyer made video diaries to try to eradicate fears about the virus. His family said he genuinely believed he was doing the right thing. In a video diary entry on his personal social media page, he said: "The idea that we have to be afraid of this bogeyman. This COVID-19, this somehow is a monster. We've got to get over this." I know it sounds strange and some people may get upset by me saying this but I hope I've got it, I hope it is COVID, because I'd rather have the antibodies in my blood, then take the jabs."" news.sky.com/story/covid-19-devastated-familys-plea-after-death-of-lawyer-who-refused-to-get-coronavirus-vaccine-12377315He play Russian Roulette w/Covid and lost. Because he BELIEVED he knew better than the scientists, doctors, epidemiologists, and public health workers. REALITY doesn't give a sh(#*$#( about your beliefs. Viruses gonna virus. Even if you're 58 and "healthy" and "BELIEVE" it's not going to kill you.
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 15, 2021 18:22:51 GMT
How sad that an educated man just developed a belief-based on nothing-and paid for it with his life. At least his family will get the jab now.
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Post by gar on Aug 15, 2021 19:24:07 GMT
Why?? Why (apart from the political aspect) have sane, educated people taken this stand with this virus? It's mind boggling...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 19:55:33 GMT
Why?? Why (apart from the political aspect) have sane, educated people taken this stand with this virus? It's mind boggling... My theory? They have taken up a belief. They have been duped. If they don't hold fast and firm to their belief, it shows they have been duped. They don't want to appear to be stupid. They wonder in what other beliefs they may have been taken in. ![](https://www.scouttrout.com/uploads/3/8/0/0/38007765/t0aaiyg_orig.jpg)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 19:57:16 GMT
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amom23
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Post by amom23 on Aug 15, 2021 20:01:33 GMT
I don't feel bad this man died. He made a choice and his choice lead to his death.
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Post by gar on Aug 15, 2021 20:04:32 GMT
Why?? Why (apart from the political aspect) have sane, educated people taken this stand with this virus? It's mind boggling... My theory? They have taken up a belief. They have been duped. If they don't hold fast and firm to their belief, it shows they have been duped. They don't want to appear to be stupid. They wonder in what other beliefs they may have been taken in. ![](https://www.scouttrout.com/uploads/3/8/0/0/38007765/t0aaiyg_orig.jpg) That's certainly very plausible...but you have to why did they take up the stance that Covid was all a lot of fuss about nothing in the first place? In the States it's possibly/probably different because of Trump's influence but that's not true everywhere. I guess there's always some who want to go against the grain of majority thinking 'just because' but when it comes to such a worldwide threat to health...I don't know!
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Post by epeanymous on Aug 15, 2021 20:09:07 GMT
I don't feel bad this man died. He made a choice and his choice lead to his death. The thing is that I can basically agree with you (even though I generally have a lot of empathy for people who make bad decisions and suffer consequences), but I am listening to some of the women on this board post about their loved ones making similar bad decisions, and think about how much they would hurt in this situation.
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Post by freecharlie on Aug 15, 2021 21:39:20 GMT
Why?? Why (apart from the political aspect) have sane, educated people taken this stand with this virus? It's mind boggling... is it political in England and other areas of Europe?
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Post by gar on Aug 15, 2021 21:49:22 GMT
Why?? Why (apart from the political aspect) have sane, educated people taken this stand with this virus? It's mind boggling... is it political in England and other areas of Europe? Not in the UK no.
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Post by claudia123 on Aug 15, 2021 22:02:49 GMT
I don't feel bad this man died. He made a choice and his choice lead to his death. Do you feel the same way about obese people who die prematurely of heart attacks or other complications from being overweight?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2021 22:06:20 GMT
I don't feel bad this man died. He made a choice and his choice lead to his death. Do you feel the same way about obese people who die prematurely of heart attacks or other complications from being overweight? Their obesity does not put others and healthcare workers at risk. So, not quite the analogy you might think it is. ETA: I do feel bad about his death. I feel bad about all people duped into stupid/dangerous beliefs.
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Post by claudia123 on Aug 15, 2021 22:11:48 GMT
Do you feel the same way about obese people who die prematurely of heart attacks or other complications from being overweight? Their obesity does not put others and healthcare workers at risk. So, not quite the analogy you might think it is. ETA: I do feel bad about his death. I feel bad about all people duped into stupid/dangerous beliefs. The previous poster didn't state anything about the risks to others, just that he made his choice so she isn't sad he died. I was wondering if she believed that about other choices, I know many do feel the same way about people who smoke for example.
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amom23
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Post by amom23 on Aug 15, 2021 23:35:17 GMT
Their obesity does not put others and healthcare workers at risk. So, not quite the analogy you might think it is. ETA: I do feel bad about his death. I feel bad about all people duped into stupid/dangerous beliefs. The previous poster didn't state anything about the risks to others, just that he made his choice so she isn't sad he died. I was wondering if she believed that about other choices, I know many do feel the same way about people who smoke for example. Lots of people die everyday of illnesses they had some control over. We aren't talking about someone's addiction problem here. The COVID vaccine is easy and free. People are dying because they won't get a simple and free vaccine. So no I don't feel bad for those people who choose not to believe science and it really angers me that vaccinated people and young children are now getting sick with COVID because we have so many who won't do the right thing and get vaccinated.
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pilcas
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Post by pilcas on Aug 16, 2021 11:40:34 GMT
How sad that an educated man just developed a belief-based on nothing-and paid for it with his life. At least his family will get the jab now. Even worse, he spread his beliefs through video. Harmed not only himself but potentially others.
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sueg
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Post by sueg on Aug 16, 2021 12:25:00 GMT
Why?? Why (apart from the political aspect) have sane, educated people taken this stand with this virus? It's mind boggling... is it political in England and other areas of Europe? Not political in Germany. I mean, we do have Covid deniers, lockdown objectors and anti- vaxxers, but it is not split along political lines.
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Post by scraplette on Aug 16, 2021 13:55:03 GMT
Why?? Why (apart from the political aspect) have sane, educated people taken this stand with this virus? It's mind boggling... Mind boggling and arrogant! How many people around the world would love to have easy access to a free vaccine these yahoos pass up?
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Post by trixiecat on Aug 16, 2021 14:45:10 GMT
We have neighbors who have this mindset. They don't want the government controlling them, they are afraid there could be affects from the vaccine years down the road, the husband says he has never gotten the flu shot and never got the flu and this virus is just like the flu. They will only wear a mask when forced to and complain about how the government is controlling them. My husband has a friend who father and mother both got Covid and were in their early 80's. The father died after being on a ventilator for a week. Their response is, "did you really know this person and how well do you know your friend". Insinuating that my husband's good friend is making up what his dad died from. WTF. Their response is he was old, probably had underlying conditions and that is what he died from. My husband's response is if the man would not have contracted covid, he would still be living and he didn't deserve to die. This couple will start heated conversations out of the blue about Covid and other things. You can not alter people's opinions or attitudes when they have this mindset. Luckily we only see this couple on the weekends during the summer and are definately chosing to not spend as much time with them. It's a shame because we have been good friends with them for over 5 years.
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Post by sideways on Aug 16, 2021 16:15:36 GMT
I don't feel bad this man died. He made a choice and his choice lead to his death. Do you feel the same way about obese people who die prematurely of heart attacks or other complications from being overweight? Obesity isn’t always about choice. There can be medical reasons that lead to obesity. Genetic factors. With covid at this point, it boils down to choice 99% of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2021 16:16:16 GMT
They don't want the government controlling them I guess they'd rather have a virulent virus controlling them. Can't fix stupid.
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Post by sleepingbooty on Aug 16, 2021 16:27:48 GMT
is it political in England and other areas of Europe? Not political in Germany. I mean, we do have Covid deniers, lockdown objectors and anti- vaxxers, but it is not split along political lines. Same in France. The small fringe of protestors are a bizarre mix you wouldn't otherwise see together like extreme left, extreme right, ecologists, apolitical folks. The US really stand apart in the world (for now) with the mainstream left/right fracture. I do feel *some* empathy for these people because they genuinely believe it. I don't experience the dislike I do for those who instrumentalise the anti-vaxx stance for their individual cause (usually monetary and/or political) and often secretly got vaccinated. These people who are clinging to refusing vaccines and experience genuine fear, lack of sleep, spiraling away from reality are going through a mental crisis. They get my limited sympathy. But I'm also pissed at them for likely causing other's people's deaths, long Covid and emotional suffering.
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maryannscraps
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Post by maryannscraps on Aug 16, 2021 19:33:55 GMT
Honestly, he sounds like one of those smart people that thinks because he is smart, he knows more than anyone else. Even the experts. I know a number of people with PhDs who are like that. They know more about a certain area of physics than anybody, and therefore it makes them an expert in the law and finance. I can think of 3 or 4 people who would totally do that.
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FurryP
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Post by FurryP on Aug 16, 2021 21:32:04 GMT
I don't feel bad this man died. He made a choice and his choice lead to his death. The thing is that I can basically agree with you (even though I generally have a lot of empathy for people who make bad decisions and suffer consequences), but I am listening to some of the women on this board post about their loved ones making similar bad decisions, and think about how much they would hurt in this situation. Exactly. It is easy to say I don't feel bad. I've done it. But when you love someone with stupidity in their head and they are affected by Covid in any way, it would be devastating.
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Post by shessoaverage on Aug 16, 2021 21:51:05 GMT
I feel a little worse every time I read one of these stories. I’ve always thought that suicide by jumping off a building would give a person a cruelly long time to think about what a bad idea it had been. I feel the same way about these people who have spouted off about their belief that COVID isn’t dangerous, etc. It must be a bitter pill to swallow while you are lying in an ICU, struggling to breathe and being told they’re going to put you on a ventilator. Very sad.
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Post by hop2 on Aug 16, 2021 22:20:42 GMT
I don't feel bad this man died. He made a choice and his choice lead to his death. Do you feel the same way about obese people who die prematurely of heart attacks or other complications from being overweight? Not everyone who is over weight is over weight by choice or by their own actions. Hormones & metabolism are tricky things. And a person can not always ‘change’ their hormone issue or their metabolism. There are medical conditions & medications that can impede activity or increase weight. It’s not always as simple as eat less move more. It just isn’t. Piss poor analogy IMO and also IMO it is usually spouted by someone with a bias towards overweight people. Oh they are lazy oh it’s all their own fault. No, no it’s isn’t always So keep your biases to yourself.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Aug 16, 2021 22:42:30 GMT
But my being overweight will not make you sick nor will it kill you!!
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Post by gar on Aug 17, 2021 8:04:38 GMT
is it political in England and other areas of Europe? Not political in Germany. I mean, we do have Covid deniers, lockdown objectors and anti- vaxxers, but it is not split along political lines. Same here.
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Post by mollycoddle on Aug 17, 2021 11:41:53 GMT
And so it begins.
Maybe the lord will find them an ICU bed when they get sick.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2021 12:11:58 GMT
Sadly some people genuinely think they are invincible and they eventually pay the price, as he did. I never understand the mentality of someone, even with a reasonable level of intelligence leaving aside his obvious higher level that think, during a world pandemic, that it is never going to happen to them. Having said that many highly intelligent people do lack some general common sense. There is more about his belief in the BBC report about his death He also believed that the vaccine was too experimental.
Thankfully, with the high level of uptake the vaccine has in the UK there are not that many like him. That's not to say that we don't have our share of anti vax and lockdown protesters but they come from all walks of life and not particularly from any one political party.
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joelise
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Post by joelise on Aug 17, 2021 14:33:17 GMT
His wife and step daughter were on day time TV. The wife said that she was much more ill than him and couldn’t get off the sofa. He was in bed. Their son called an ambulance for her as she couldn’t breath. The paramedic said that she needed to go to hospital. The son went to wake the dad up to tell him he needed to watch the kids now. The son found him dead.
She was on TV telling everyone to get the vaccine. He had persuaded her not to have it. She said as soon as she was well enough she would now.
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