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Post by onelasttime on Jan 27, 2022 23:36:32 GMT
We have a political party busily making it harder to vote and easier to overturn the election results they don’t like. A political party that no longer has any interest in governing but wants to make sure the other political party can’t govern either. Let’s not forget whether wholesale censorship the Republicans are currently engaged in.
Justice Breyer in his remarks today at the White House talked about how this country was an experiment and its currently in a kind of civil war and only the people can decide if the experiment should continue. He has hopes that it can.
But I have my doubts if people continue to ignore what is going on with the Republican Party and get all hysterical about this.
And what gets me is the stupid excuses they come up to justify their rebellion against a mandate. A mandate that wouldn’t be needed if people would do the right thing and get vaccinated. It’s not just for themselves but other people as well. Especially for the estimated 7M in this country that for various reasons can’t get vaccinated.
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 27, 2022 23:37:33 GMT
Stupidity.
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Post by AussieMeg on Jan 27, 2022 23:45:44 GMT
Justice Breyer in his remarks today at the White House talked about how this country was an experiment and its currently in a kind of civil war and only the people can decide if the experiment should continue. He has hopes that it can. Am I misreading this? Justice Breyer says the US was an experiment The US is currently in a kind of civil war Only the people can decide if the experiment should continue (not sure what kind of experiment??) Justice Breyer hopes it can continue. (Hopes the experiment can continue? The kind of civil war?) I don't understand. |
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Post by ntsf on Jan 27, 2022 23:51:15 GMT
the experient is a democratic republic form of government. when the us constitution was written, there were not other countries using this form.
so even lincoln, who was laser focused on preserving the union of states, was saying the experiment was continuing.. could he succeed in keeping the union together once again.
people here have to take their disputes to courts, rather than bombing or killing each other to settle disputes.
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Post by scrapbookwriter on Jan 28, 2022 0:13:13 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible.
However.
We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for.
The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not.
Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020 (CORRECTION: January 2021). He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance.
He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated.
I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do.
But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering.
Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal.
And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead.
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Post by myshelly on Jan 28, 2022 0:32:26 GMT
Justice Breyer in his remarks today at the White House talked about how this country was an experiment and its currently in a kind of civil war and only the people can decide if the experiment should continue. He has hopes that it can. Am I misreading this? Justice Breyer says the US was an experiment The US is currently in a kind of civil war Only the people can decide if the experiment should continue (not sure what kind of experiment??) Justice Breyer hopes it can continue. (Hopes the experiment can continue? The kind of civil war?) I don't understand. The American Experiment is a common way to refer to our unique form of government. They even say the phrase several times in Hamilton 😉 |
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Post by Skellinton on Jan 28, 2022 0:38:22 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020. He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. How did he determine his risk for hospitalization was .1%? |
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Post by myshelly on Jan 28, 2022 0:38:24 GMT
The government shouldn’t be in the business of making medical decisions.
One entire party has, for years, echoed the motto “My body, my choice.” Now they have abandoned it and given ownership of their bodies and minds to leaders who can’t be questioned.
I never thought I would see the day that I would call myself either a Republican or a conservative, but here we are.
The Dems are going to lose, they’re going to lose big, and they don’t understand why. This is why.
I am heartbroken at how the party I have always identified with and voted for has lost its damn mind and gone too far off the left hand deep end. So, yes, I think this country has become really messed up. I hope it’s not too late.
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Post by sideways on Jan 28, 2022 0:42:21 GMT
The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. No steps were skipped. These vaccines have been under development for several years. All that was needed was the specific info for covid. They went through all the same trials that other vaccines go through, but the trials were run concurrently instead of consecutively. We were (still are) in an emergency. We couldn’t wait years for the covid vaccines. |
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Post by sideways on Jan 28, 2022 0:46:50 GMT
The government shouldn’t be in the business of making medical decisions. One entire party has, for years, echoed the motto “My body, my choice.” Now they have abandoned it and given ownership of their bodies and minds to leaders who can’t be questioned. I never thought I would see the day that I would call myself either a Republican or a conservative, but here we are. The Dems are going to lose, they’re going to lose big, and they don’t understand why. This is why. I am heartbroken at how the party I have always identified with and voted for has lost its damn mind and gone too far off the left hand deep end. So, yes, I think this country has become really messed up. I hope it’s not too late. Oh, FFS. Abortion isn’t contagious. Covid is. It’s not just YOUR body when you can spread your disease to others. That’s why we have many vaccines that are required for several things. You’re no Democrat. Especially if your values are so malleable. If you think Democrats are the ones who have lost their minds and now you’re a republican, well, you’re as nuts as the rest of the republican party. But everyone here who has a modicum of sense already knows that. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 28, 2022 0:49:20 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020. He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. I don't know if this is your information or from your friend. Regardless, there's a lot of misinformation here. The Pfizer trials involved 43,000 plus people. And yes, the vaccine was approved in record time, but steps were not skipped they were just completed concurrently instead of consecutively And no, there is no law preventing doctors from not recommending the vaccine. Regrettably, there are doctors in the US spreading misinformation. Doctors are at risk of losing their license if they spread misinformation or disinformation. But very few have faced consequences. www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccinewww.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines/corrected-fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-are-not-experimental-and-they-have-not-skipped-trial-stages-idUSL1N2M70MWwww.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/09/doctors-tell-patients-not-vaccinated-covid-19/620024/www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/14/1035915598/doctors-covid-misinformation-medical-licensewww.cnn.com/2021/10/19/us/doctors-covid-vaccine-misinformation-invs/index.htmlIn late July, the board of directors at the Federation of State Medical Boards released a statement notifying physicians that promoting dangerous falsehoods about the Covid-19 vaccines could put their medical licenses at risk. But while several state medical boards told CNN that complaints about misinformation are piling up, only a handful of low-profile doctors have been formally punished to date. And the high-profile doctors spreading misinformation to millions of followers have faced no such regulatory scrutiny.www.fsmb.org/advocacy/news-releases/fsmb-spreading-covid-19-vaccine-misinformation-may-put-medical-license-at-risk/ |
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Just T
Drama Llama
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Post by Just T on Jan 28, 2022 0:55:47 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020. He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. I don't know if this is your information or from your friend. Regardless, there's a lot of misinformation here. The Pfizer trials involved 43,000 plus people. And yes, the vaccine was approved in record time, but steps were not skipped they were just completed concurrently instead of consecutively And no, there is no law preventing doctors from not recommending the vaccine. Regrettably, there are doctors in the US spreading misinformation. www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccinewww.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-vaccines/corrected-fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-are-not-experimental-and-they-have-not-skipped-trial-stages-idUSL1N2M70MWwww.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/09/doctors-tell-patients-not-vaccinated-covid-19/620024/www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/14/1035915598/doctors-covid-misinformation-medical-licensewww.cnn.com/2021/10/19/us/doctors-covid-vaccine-misinformation-invs/index.htmlHow did he receive his vaccine in January 2020? We barely even knew about COVID yet and there was not a vaccine. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 28, 2022 0:57:08 GMT
The government shouldn’t be in the business of making medical decisions. One entire party has, for years, echoed the motto “My body, my choice.” Now they have abandoned it and given ownership of their bodies and minds to leaders who can’t be questioned. I never thought I would see the day that I would call myself either a Republican or a conservative, but here we are. The Dems are going to lose, they’re going to lose big, and they don’t understand why. This is why. I am heartbroken at how the party I have always identified with and voted for has lost its damn mind and gone too far off the left hand deep end. So, yes, I think this country has become really messed up. I hope it’s not too late. You're opposed to mask mandates. You're opposed to vaccine mandates. You're against vaccine passports. In spring 2020, you opposed lockdowns. You wanted the freedom to travel anywhere. You didn't care about the health risks to workers, you just wanted Disney, NASCAR, movie theaters, museums etc to be open. You bragged about not wearing masks during the biggest spikes of covid. You also callously bragged about going to a theater with 4,000 of your closest friends. Sorry, but the pure selfishness of your beliefs aligns perfectly with today's Republican Party. You are not a Democrat, and it's not likely that you ever truly were a Democrat. You're entitled to your opinions, at least have the courage to own them and don't pretend you’re heartbroken about the Democratic Party. We can agree that the country is really messed up, but it’s not because of the Democrats. We are doomed because people like you think your personal freedoms and beliefs are more important than the greater good. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 28, 2022 1:02:25 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead.Just wanted to make another point about this part of your post. There is no law preventing doctors from recommending against the covid vaccine. They are at risk of losing their license if they spread misinformation or disinformation. However, in NH and other states, Republican state legislatures are making medical decisions, ones that should be left to doctors and patients. In NH, the state legislature requires women to have a medically unnecessary, sometimes invasive internal ultrasound if they want an abortion. Other states have waiting periods that interfere with a very personal decision and sometimes place undue burdens on women who have to travel great distances. |
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Post by sabrinae on Jan 28, 2022 1:08:19 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020. He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. I’ll just leave it at there is a whole lot of misinformation in this post. Including that it’s illegal for a dr to make a recommendation to not vaccinate |
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Post by onelasttime on Jan 28, 2022 1:17:36 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020. He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. The last 14 years I worked before I retired part of my job involved placing insurance for our biotech clients clinical trials. There are at least three phases and in each phase involves I believe a new group of people. Sometime the FDA may require a 4th phase. The insurance companies need to know how many subjects per phase. Both those getting the drug and those getting a placebo. None of the trails insurance I worked on came close to tens of thousands of subjects used during the three phases or even if there was a fourth phase of a trial. So I thought maybe I’m not remembering correctly so I asked my friend google and found this description of clinical trials which is the way I remember it. ”Clinical trials of drugs are usually described based on their phase. The FDA typically requires Phase I, II, and III trials to be conducted to determine if the drug can be approved for use. A Phase I trial tests an experimental treatment on a small group of often healthy people (20 to 80) to judge its safety and side effects and to find the correct drug dosage. A Phase II trial uses more people (100 to 300). While the emphasis in Phase I is on safety, the emphasis in Phase II is on effectiveness. This phase aims to obtain preliminary data on whether the drug works in people who have a certain disease or condition. These trials also continue to study safety, including short-term side effects. This phase can last several years. A Phase III trial gathers more information about safety and effectiveness, studying different populations and different dosages, using the drug in combination with other drugs. The number of subjects usually ranges from several hundred to about 3,000 people. If the FDA agrees that the trial results are positive, it will approve the experimental drug or device. A Phase IV trial for drugs or devices takes place after the FDA approves their use. A device or drug's effectiveness and safety are monitored in large, diverse populations. Sometimes, the side effects of a drug may not become clear until more people have taken it over a longer period of time.” And from what I understand since COVID is a Sars virus the drug companies already had a foundation to work from and that was one of the reason it didn’t take longer then it did to come up with vaccines. In other words they drug companies didn’t have to start from scratch. Yes sometimes after a vaccine/drug has been approved new side affects make themselves known. In most cases the side affects only affect a small % that doctors can work around. Sometimes the side affects are serious enough the drug is removed. But the reality is there is risk in everything we do. Every time you get in a car, every time you walk down a flight of stairs there is risk involved but we do it anyway. The only way we can get this virus under control so we can go back to a normal life or the new normal is if people get vaccinated, But more importantly for the unvaccinated they are personally taking a greater risk by not being vaccinated then if they did get vaccinated. I mean seriously who wants to be potentially hooked up to a ventilator for weeks. And who wants to potentially be a long hauler? And then those who have died. Over 800,000 Americans have died and many didn’t have to if they had just done the right thing instead of stamping their little feet and claiming “ you can’t tell me what to do”. The fact that there has to mandates involving COVID-19 just shows how messed up some people are. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 28, 2022 1:19:27 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020. He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. I can understand that there are differing viewpoints, and I personally have mixed feelings about vaccine mandates. However, I really dislike when misinformation is spread, particularly by people who are in a position where their title would make it easier for someone to take what they are saying as truth, like your friend. First, I have known several people who say that their doctors told them not to get vaccinated, or were looking at the risk vs benefit due to their health history. I do understand that some of these people may not be telling the truth, but there are some that I believe are. I have also heard that the risk of myocarditis after the vaccine is lower than the risk of getting it after having Covid. I can understand why your friend may be playing the "what if" game, but I think it is also important to point out that he may have also been at a greater risk to get myocarditis if he got Covid while not being vaccinated. I also think that we generally have to look at the big picture, not just very small parts. The percentage of vaccinated vs unvaccinated that are hospitalized and dying is enough for me to believe in the vaccine at this time. |
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samantha25
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by samantha25 on Jan 28, 2022 1:25:45 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020 (CORRECTION: January 2021). He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. I don't believe this at all. |
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Post by mollycoddle on Jan 28, 2022 1:30:26 GMT
Covid is just the icing on the cake. The divisions have been deep for a long time. Republicans will very likely take over after the midterms, and we will be screwed. The party of Trump, Cruz, Ron Johnson, Marge Green, Boebert, Gaetz, Gohmert and Cawthorne will be in charge.
Buckle up. Not much health care, but there will be guns. Guns in parks, guns around schools, guns everywhere. Lots of forbidden books too. And probably rallies. SO much to look forward to.
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Post by pixiechick on Jan 28, 2022 1:46:19 GMT
The Pfizer trials involved 43,000 plus people. None of the trails insurance I worked on came close to tens of thousands of subjects used during the three phases or even if there was a fourth phase of a trial.  |
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Post by peano on Jan 28, 2022 1:52:40 GMT
The government shouldn’t be in the business of making medical decisions. One entire party has, for years, echoed the motto “My body, my choice.” Now they have abandoned it and given ownership of their bodies and minds to leaders who can’t be questioned. I never thought I would see the day that I would call myself either a Republican or a conservative, but here we are. The Dems are going to lose, they’re going to lose big, and they don’t understand why. This is why. I am heartbroken at how the party I have always identified with and voted for has lost its damn mind and gone too far off the left hand deep end. So, yes, I think this country has become really messed up. I hope it’s not too late. I agree with you that the Democratic Party is in trouble and they're going to lose big. But from your post history, you seem to align politically with that asshat Libertarian Rand Paul, not Democrats. Democrats give a shit about other people. You don't. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jan 28, 2022 2:12:13 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020. He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. The last 14 years I worked before I retired part of my job involved placing insurance for our biotech clients clinical trials. There are at least three phases and in each phase involves I believe a new group of people. Sometime the FDA may require a 4th phase. The insurance companies need to know how many subjects per phase. Both those getting the drug and those getting a placebo. None of the trails insurance I worked on came close to tens of thousands of subjects used during the three phases or even if there was a fourth phase of a trial. So I thought maybe I’m not remembering correctly so I asked my friend google and found this description of clinical trials which is the way I remember it. ”Clinical trials of drugs are usually described based on their phase. The FDA typically requires Phase I, II, and III trials to be conducted to determine if the drug can be approved for use. A Phase I trial tests an experimental treatment on a small group of often healthy people (20 to 80) to judge its safety and side effects and to find the correct drug dosage. A Phase II trial uses more people (100 to 300). While the emphasis in Phase I is on safety, the emphasis in Phase II is on effectiveness. This phase aims to obtain preliminary data on whether the drug works in people who have a certain disease or condition. These trials also continue to study safety, including short-term side effects. This phase can last several years. A Phase III trial gathers more information about safety and effectiveness, studying different populations and different dosages, using the drug in combination with other drugs. The number of subjects usually ranges from several hundred to about 3,000 people. If the FDA agrees that the trial results are positive, it will approve the experimental drug or device. A Phase IV trial for drugs or devices takes place after the FDA approves their use. A device or drug's effectiveness and safety are monitored in large, diverse populations. Sometimes, the side effects of a drug may not become clear until more people have taken it over a longer period of time.” And from what I understand since COVID is a Sars virus the drug companies already had a foundation to work from and that was one of the reason it didn’t take longer then it did to come up with vaccines. In other words they drug companies didn’t have to start from scratch. Yes sometimes after a vaccine/drug has been approved new side affects make themselves known. In most cases the side affects only affect a small % that doctors can work around. Sometimes the side affects are serious enough the drug is removed. But the reality is there is risk in everything we do. Every time you get in a car, every time you walk down a flight of stairs there is risk involved but we do it anyway. The only way we can get this virus under control so we can go back to a normal life or the new normal is if people get vaccinated, But more importantly for the unvaccinated they are personally taking a greater risk by not being vaccinated then if they did get vaccinated. I mean seriously who wants to be potentially hooked up to a ventilator for weeks. And who wants to potentially be a long hauler? And then those who have died. Over 800,000 Americans have died and many didn’t have to if they had just done the right thing instead of stamping their little feet and claiming “ you can’t tell me what to do”. The fact that there has to mandates involving COVID-19 just shows how messed up some people are. Honestly sometimes you post stuff that is so bizarre I wonder if you're just trolling us. Surely if you were actually a professional insuring companies you'd realize that depending on the drug/trial the potential group varies tremendously. If you expected a Phase II or III trial for a condition that effects 1000 people a year to be comparable to a vaccine for 300 million - you're bonkers. Yes thousands, literally thousands of treatments are approved with small sample sizes every year as the number of people with the condition is tiny - that is so beyond irrelevant to the discussion of the vaccine roll out I am dumbfounded that you brought it up. I'm a HUGE proponent of the vaccine - me, my husband and two teens were vaccinated the second they were eligible - this isn't about doubting the vaccine, it's a continued frustrating that people just say the most random shit and think it's helpful. |
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Post by Merge on Jan 28, 2022 2:33:30 GMT
Covid is just the icing on the cake. The divisions have been deep for a long time. Republicans will very likely take over after the midterms, and we will be screwed. The party of Trump, Cruz, Ron Johnson, Marge Green, Boebert, Gaetz, Gohmert and Cawthorne will be in charge. Buckle up. Not much health care, but there will be guns. Guns in parks, guns around schools, guns everywhere. Lots of forbidden books too. And probably rallies. SO much to look forward to. I see Texas! Texas everywhere! 😂🙄☹️ |
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Post by Merge on Jan 28, 2022 2:43:21 GMT
A big part of the problem here is people conflating job mandates with a universal mandate.
You do not have a right to any particular job.
Let me say that again: you do not have a right to any particular job.
If you don’t like the requirements for a particular job, you are free to seek employment elsewhere. If a vaccine is mandated for safety reasons at a particular job, and you don’t like it, you are free to take your plague-ridden ass down to the quickie mart and work there. (No disrespect to quickie mart employees.)
I love how conservatives have long been proponents of letting employers set their own requirements for employment and hire/fire who and when they please, but when it bites them in the butt, they’re like, “Oh but muh freedoms.”
Say it with me again. You do not have the right to any particular job. Not even a government job. Being an anti-vax idiot is not a protected class. Republicans have made it so and now they get to reap what they’ve sown. You can join people with tattoos, marijuana users, and non-Christians in the line of people who can’t work at certain places. Too damn bad.
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
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Post by zella on Jan 28, 2022 2:51:25 GMT
AussieMeg, as Lin-Manuel Miranda put it so succinctly in 'Hamilton': "Are we a nation of states? What's the state of our nation?" I would go further than others on this board and say that the experiment is either the US is a federation (state laws exist but federal law, in general, overarches that) or a confederation (state law is supreme)? I feel we are leaning more and more towards confederacy, and I don't understand it. The states already had a civil war about that issue. It is, IMO, incorrect to say the US had the first democracy. History tells us that democracy goes all the way back to several hundred years BC in Athens. And so many people were left out of the "democracy" (women, slaves, the poor). That was part of the experiment too, though it shouldn't have been, and we shouldn't still be fighting in 2022 to assure everyone has the vote. This country is ruled largely by rich, white men. It hasn't changed enough for my liking. And now we have, I believe, more division than ever. People are less involved with each other. Rudeness is tolerated. NIMBY has become the mantra. I too think this country could see another civil war. It is so diverse, so large... can it last? Should it last?
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Post by elaine on Jan 28, 2022 2:52:43 GMT
A big part of the problem here is people conflating job mandates with a universal mandate. You do not have a right to any particular job. Let me say that again: you do not have a right to any particular job. If you don’t like the requirements for a particular job, you are free to seek employment elsewhere. If a vaccine is mandated for safety reasons at a particular job, and you don’t like it, you are free to take your plague-ridden ass down to the quickie mart and work there. (No disrespect to quickie mart employees.) I love how conservatives have long been proponents of letting employers set their own requirements for employment and hire/fire who and when they please, but when it bites them in the butt, they’re like, “Oh but muh freedoms.” Say it with me again. You do not have the right to any particular job. Not even a government job. Being an anti-vax idiot is not a protected class. Republicans have made it so and now they get to reap what they’ve sown. You can join people with tattoos, marijuana users, and non-Christians in the line of people who can’t work at certain places. Too damn bad. And you do not have the right to enter any business establishment wearing (or not wearing) whatever you please. No one blinks an eye over “no shirt, no shoes, no service.” All of a sudden, being asked to wear a mask is something to harass and threaten workers over when the place they work at requires them. If you don’t want to wear shoes, you can’t eat in indoor dining establishments; you don’t want to wear a mask, you can’t go in establishments that require them. Your choice. |
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Post by aj2hall on Jan 28, 2022 2:57:55 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020 (CORRECTION: January 2021). He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. I’m glad you made a correction. However, you neglected to correct the more troublesome vaccine misinformation. If it’s illegal to not recommend the vaccine, how do you explain DeSantis’s nominee for Florida Surgeon general who has promoted vaccine misinformation? Or other doctors who have regrettably spread misinformation very publicly? www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/10/21/ron-desantiss-controversial-surgeon-general-questions-safety-vaccines/www.factcheck.org/2021/03/scicheck-texas-doctor-spreads-false-claims-about-covid-19-vaccines/Also, I would be interested to see this medically supported view, by someone other than your friend or someone like the doctor in Florida. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 28, 2022 3:27:56 GMT
The government shouldn’t be in the business of making medical decisions. One entire party has, for years, echoed the motto “My body, my choice.” Now they have abandoned it and given ownership of their bodies and minds to leaders who can’t be questioned. I never thought I would see the day that I would call myself either a Republican or a conservative, but here we are. The Dems are going to lose, they’re going to lose big, and they don’t understand why. This is why. I am heartbroken at how the party I have always identified with and voted for has lost its damn mind and gone too far off the left hand deep end. So, yes, I think this country has become really messed up. I hope it’s not too late. Bullshit. My body, my choice means that I GET to follow MY DOCTORS advice on how to approach MY medical issues. NOT GOVERNMENT. Not any politicians. Not one democrats that I know of has “abandoned” our fight for bodily autonomy. You’re disingenuous with words here. It absolutely does not mean that Democrats blindly follow the advice of leaders (politicians) UNLIKE republicans and conservatives who have quite literally turned most, if not all their medical “decisions” over to believing and following what politicians, right wing talking heads, far right media are telling them to do. Democrats question authority all the damn time—you have it backwards—conservatives and republicans are the ones laying down, allowing corrupt politicians tell them what to do, what to believe all based on lies. Republicans don’t want you yo think or question shit. They want you do what they say and not as they do. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Jan 28, 2022 3:29:26 GMT
The government shouldn’t be in the business of making medical decisions. One entire party has, for years, echoed the motto “My body, my choice.” Now they have abandoned it and given ownership of their bodies and minds to leaders who can’t be questioned. I never thought I would see the day that I would call myself either a Republican or a conservative, but here we are. The Dems are going to lose, they’re going to lose big, and they don’t understand why. This is why. I am heartbroken at how the party I have always identified with and voted for has lost its damn mind and gone too far off the left hand deep end. So, yes, I think this country has become really messed up. I hope it’s not too late. You're opposed to mask mandates. You're opposed to vaccine mandates. You're against vaccine passports. In spring 2020, you opposed lockdowns. You wanted the freedom to travel anywhere. You didn't care about the health risks to workers, you just wanted Disney, NASCAR, movie theaters, museums etc to be open. You bragged about not wearing masks during the biggest spikes of covid. You also callously bragged about going to a theater with 4,000 of your closest friends. Sorry, but the pure selfishness of your beliefs aligns perfectly with today's Republican Party. You are not a Democrat, and it's not likely that you ever truly were a Democrat. You're entitled to your opinions, at least have the courage to own them and don't pretend you’re heartbroken about the Democratic Party. We we can agree that the country is really messed up, but it’s not because of the Democrats. We are doomed because people like you think your personal freedoms and beliefs are more important than the greater good. All her shit is all selfish. Me me me me. Typical of those conservative/republican types. They whine lie cheat to get what they want, everyone else who doesn’t think like them be damned. |
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Post by nightnurse on Jan 28, 2022 3:46:23 GMT
I am fully vaccinated and boostered and grateful for the science that made it possible. However. We have a doctor friend with a degree in public health. He earned his medical degree from Harvard with a specialty in Epidemiology. This pandemic is exactly what he trained for. The development of this vaccine goes against everything he learned about the way vaccines should be developed. Instead of the four or more years that vaccines should take, we had it in one. Clinical trials normally involve tens of thousands of people. This vaccine testing did not. Our friend is a very healthy man in his 40s. He received his vaccine in January of 2020 (CORRECTION: January 2021). He developed myocarditis from the vaccine and was hospitalized. He says this is a known side effect for 2% of young adult men who receive the vaccine. His risk of hospitalization for covid was .1%. He questions whether it was worth the 2% risk to avoid the .1% chance. He recommends the vaccine for anyone over 60 or with underlying conditions. By law he is prohibited from suggesting anyone should *not* get the vaccine. It's illegal for him as a doctor to make a recommendation that any one of his patients *not* be vaccinated. I get it. We're not just vaccinated to protect ourselves but to protect others. Hospitals are overwhelmed. I get it, I do. But there is another actual, logical, medically supported point of view worth considering. Our government will not allow us to consider it. To do so is both unpatriotic and illegal. And that does bother me. Truly. Even though I chose to be vaccinated and was first in line for a booster shot. Even though I have lost friends to this disease. I think doctors should be allowed to make the recommendations they deem appropriate for their patients. I don't like the government making those decisions instead. 0.1% chance of what? Death? Because the chance of myocarditis, blood clots, lung damage, etc from actually contacting COVID are much higher than the very tiny chance of a complication from the vaccine. Also he’s absolutely wrong that vaccines take four years and we for this one in one. Like I can’t even imagine where he’s getting those numbers. I hate these anecdotal stories and I wonder why they carry such weight with people. This is one guy, and the info you attribute to him is wrong, so how does this one guy negate the dozens upon dozens of other professionals around the world? |
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