Vladimir Putin has officially declared war on Ukraine

No one is saying Putin isn’t responsible. He clearly is. But there is also a long history of geopolitical machinations by the US, by Russia, by China. By all the “developed” countries. The history of colonization and manipulations is important. That doesn’t negate Putin’s responsibility.

sideways sadly I agree with you and the author of the essay. Praying with a heavy heart.

I don't have the background knowledge (or the desire!) to argue with anyone on this thread. Instead, I am enjoying learning and I can appreciate that people in other countries might look at this issue very differently than those of us in the US. And, please don't assume that all Americans would be similarly offended by the viewpoint from another country.

I, too, agree with the essay sideways posted. This is simply the entire thing in a nutshell. We can push sanctions all we want. Not going to change what is happening here. There are two choices.
1. We simply step back and let Putin have Ukraine. Life in the U.S. will continue pretty much as it has. We'll have inflation, high gas costs, etc. etc. But we'll be safe and secure in our part of the world. In the grand scheme of things (sad though it makes us) it is better for them to be destroyed than for the whole world to go to war. But the fact is, no matter how much we try to convince ourselves otherwise, Putin will not be satisfied with Ukraine no matter how much we try to convince ourselves that that will just be the end of it.
2. We go to war. No one knows how that will end. Might be more horrific than any of us can imagine. Of course, it COULD end with Putin losing and Ukraine and Poland and Finland and (on and on and on) surviving the monster that is Putin.

Those are the ONLY choices. No matter how we pretend otherwise. I guess each of us will have to decide which option we can live with best.

And now something else: I enjoy sleeping booty's perspectives as much as anyone. But it is HER perspective. It is NOT the perspective of all of France. Anymore than some of the commentary on this thread reflect the perspective of all Americans. For instance: I personally am pretty proud of my country and how we have generally acted throughout history. Especially in WW II. There are over 400,000 graves of Americans littered all over the world who died for freedom and I will never be anything but proud of them and their sacrifice. I think it was shameful to jump on ImKristin for her statements. She has as much right to her perspective as anyone on here. We all come from different places in our thinking. We all have our own perspectives. So, yes, sleeping booty, please continue to give us insight as to the thoughts and feelings of some of your countrymen but please don't just throw up your hands and say "well I'm leaving" if someone disagrees with you. Lots of people will disagree with you, including many of your own countrymen. Lots of people will agree with you.

And isn't that what you often do yourself?

I know the company my husband works for paid their Ukrainian employees a good chunk of advance pay in hopes that the extra liquid funds can help them, and has offered to sponsor (or whatever the correct term would be) any of those employees and families if they can get here. I think they tried to see if they could physically help get people out and that was physically and financially unfeasible. But it is my hope that perhaps other companies will do the same. It's not miraculous, but it has to help at least some people.

No ma’am.
She absolutely was not adversarial.
You were.
And now you’ve chased her off with your ignorant American ridiculousness.
YOU are the only one who treated her like that on this thread.
YOU are being an absolute bitch to her and you are the problem.

I appreciate a viewpoint from other countries. I was offended by her saying that this was the fault of the US. I do agree that there is a complex history of the world but do not believe that the US is to blame for all of that as her post implied. We can all postulate on what could have been different (for better AND for worse) if xyz hadn’t happened but we are here right now and trying to find the right move for this situation.

As I said in my previous post, it is frustrating to hear various messages, such as this is the fault of the US, to the US should be doing more, to the US is not doing enough. That is what really triggered me in this thread. As well as some of the comments in the European thread that relate to this thread.

NO, it is not what I do. I leave when it gets personal and personally ugly. I simply won't respond in kind, I am glad to discuss even when I am badly outnumbered. But I am not interested in personal insults. 

and I imagine that for those living in Europe (and the Middle East and in...) it's frustrating to hear Americans focusing on themselves and how the outcomes of past American intervention are going to negatively impact Americans from a (mostly) economic  and.or even just an American-first perspective while people are literally dying. America is NOT solely at fault but the actions taken by the US Government over the past 100+ years have significantly contributed to the current situation. Is Putin/Russia responsible for the invasion  -YES. But the US has been a major player in the events leading up to the invasion over many decades. 

I think there is a tendency in the US to see US intervention as a positive, as protecting others, as protecting freedom/democracy without seeing the bigger picture of what that's really played as on the world stage. US education, US media, US politicians...all encourage that perspective of America as the protector of freedom, the policeman of the world...And I think it can be really hard when that's all you (general) have ever been told/taught ...to realise that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily appreciate or agree with those actions or with the US taking on those roles. But I think it's important to hear different perspectives and to try to listen and learn, not just get defensive. 

Agreed.

Her question was the conflicting statements. We do too much, we should do more, it's all our fault.

www.motherjones.com/environment/2022/02/russia-just-seized-chernobyl-heres-why-it-matters/


I also think Putin wants to threaten Europe that he can blow the dome covering reactor 4 

That would hurt Russia too. They may use that threat as leverage, but actually doing so would make the land they want (and some of their own) entirely useless to them.

Those republicans "must" disagree with Biden regardless of history, outcome or obligation. Nothing matters to them except not cooperating in any way, shape or form with Biden or democrats, in order to placate their trumpian, right-wing, horrific base. They are morally bankrupt. 

On a very different note, Yana Smakula (very popular cardmaker) is in the Ukraine and another Pea posted Yana's instagram post over in Stamping/Cardmaking.