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Post by jeremysgirl on Feb 28, 2022 17:42:47 GMT
I have had this conversation with family. I think slowly but surely, more and more people will become aware that this is always a possibility in their own lives and their own little bubbles. The hard part for those currently living it is waiting for this to become standard knowledge for everyone. So many people can't see past their current experience and current situation in their own lives. I hope that makes sense.🤔 I think you're right. It's very sad to me though. I hate that I have to wait until it's their child for them to understand how they're impacting mine. Being gay or transgender isn't anymore political than me having green eyes. It's a personal characteristic. (General) you don't have to like my child, but to treat her like she deserves less than a decent job, a rental apartment, etc is just so far beyond what I would call kind. And that isn't even to mention how it fills me with worry every time my child steps out of this house into the public. Knowing that someone ignorant might compromise her safety is frightening. |
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Post by pixiechick on Feb 28, 2022 17:50:16 GMT
I have had this conversation with family. I think slowly but surely, more and more people will become aware that this is always a possibility in their own lives and their own little bubbles. The hard part for those currently living it is waiting for this to become standard knowledge for everyone. So many people can't see past their current experience and current situation in their own lives. I hope that makes sense.🤔 I think you're right. It's very sad to me though. I hate that I have to wait until it's their child for them to understand how they're impacting mine. Being gay or transgender isn't anymore political than me having green eyes. It's a personal characteristic. (General) you don't have to like my child, but to treat her like she deserves less than a decent job, a rental apartment, etc is just so far beyond what I would call kind. And that isn't even to mention how it fills me with worry every time my child steps out of this house into the public. Knowing that someone ignorant might compromise her safety is frightening. I'm sorry that's what you have to deal with. If it's even the tiniest bit of hope, I don't think everyone or even most will have to experience it personally in order to realize it. I think we'll get there. |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Feb 28, 2022 17:53:36 GMT
I think you're right. It's very sad to me though. I hate that I have to wait until it's their child for them to understand how they're impacting mine. Being gay or transgender isn't anymore political than me having green eyes. It's a personal characteristic. (General) you don't have to like my child, but to treat her like she deserves less than a decent job, a rental apartment, etc is just so far beyond what I would call kind. And that isn't even to mention how it fills me with worry every time my child steps out of this house into the public. Knowing that someone ignorant might compromise her safety is frightening. I remember the first time my daughter went to a busy, public place with her girlfriend. They went to a Cardinals game, and I was terrified all night about what they might encounter out in the world. And yes, knowing there are politicians and judges out there who think that my children can be denied a job, healthcare, etc because of their sexuality is sickening to me. Knowing that people who say they love me and my family vote for people like that and sing their praises is even more sickening. It has made me think so much differently about people in my family because it is hard to wrap my brain around. I hate that people can't get outside of their own little bubble enough to think/care about other people until it is THEIR reality. |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Feb 28, 2022 18:07:04 GMT
But really, will we?? When we have not only politicians but US Supreme Court judges, who are fairly young and will be around for decades, who are anti gay rights? Will we, when there are people who continue to vote for these politicians? I honestly feel pretty unsure about ever getting there. |
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Post by voltagain on Feb 28, 2022 18:24:20 GMT
There are often trade-offs and it's a rare person who can make all the right choices all the time. While I agree with you, I get what Zima is saying, too. When it is something as important as your child's life and their rights not being what everyone else's are, it is hard to see past those who support politicians and businesses who want your child/ren to not have those rights. I'm going on very little sleep and probably not thinking clearly. An example from my own family: I have two children, a son and a daughter, who are gay. My son is married to a guy who dresses femininely, carries purses, and wears makeup and jewelry. He says he is not transgendered, he just likes women's things, but to look at him, you would think he is transgendered. My daughter is gay and had a long term girlfriend who she has broken up with in recent months. With that background in mind, I have quite a few family members who are very right wing Christian. They will never ever vote for a Democrat for any reason because they think being a Democrat is synonymous with being a Commie. They all are huge Trump supporters. My whole family knows about my gay son because he is very open about it, but my daughter is more private and my parents don't even know she is gay. Some family members do, however. So it is real hard for me to think about my own family, aunts and cousins who in the past I was very close to, supporting people like Trump and Pence or any politician or Supreme Court Justice who want to take rights away from MY CHILDREN, who they profess to love. One of my cousin's daughters is married to a man who works for Chik Fil A. He is working his way up to own a franchise. My cousin once posted about this fantastic company and how her daughter is so lucky that her husband works for a company with such Christian values. Of course, that didn't go over well with my son, and he ended up in a huge argument with my cousin and her daughter over it. He wouldn't back down, and neither would they. My cousin's daughter finally said "You are family and we love you, but...you need to stop." Or something like that. He said in reply, how can you say you love me when you think a company that is openly anti gay rights is a fantastic company. He's not wrong. I have another cousin who has posted anti gay, anti transgendered stuff on FB. He has 4 little girls, and I always want to say to him that if one of his children is gay, I sure hope he doesn't have to witness people in his own family spewing such hatred. Sorry for all that rambling! I too hate that gay rights is a political issue. To me, it is a human rights/civil rights issue. I can't decide if it is unfortunately or fortunately that human/civil rights are political. It is Fortunate when politics come down on the side of supporting human/civil rights. Unfortunate when they move too slow or move backward. While I like to think the ancient past had no politics I also know that any human group dynamics runs of politics (watching some office politics right now and there is less than 15 of us!) |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 28, 2022 18:27:18 GMT
I don't have a loved one who is LGBTQ, so I have a different perspective. At times, the fight for LGBTQ rights feels like one step forward, 2 steps back. In some ways, just in my lifetime, I think we've come a long way. I think about early on in the AIDS epidemic when it seemed like gay men were vilified. I was fairly young at the time, so that may not be an accurate reflection. Or, in the 1990's when there wasn't enough support in the military and Clinton had to settle for Don't Ask, Don't Tell. On the other hand, there are the fights to remove books from libraries and efforts like the Florida Don't Say Gay bill that feel very much like a regression. Or, the assault in Texas on trans rights and gender affirming care. (Don't get me started on the hypocrisy of Texas politicians and their interference in medical decisions but my body, my choice) The recent decision by the Supreme Court to hear another case about the Colorado law feels ominous given the conservatives on the current court. So, there's obviously a long way to go and legitimate reasons for pessimism given the current Republican Party, their manufactured culture wars and assaults on LGBTQ rights.
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Nov 23, 2024 19:03:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2022 18:35:59 GMT
I don't have a loved one who is LGBTQ I am proud to say that even when I didn't (or didn't know I did  ) I cared about these rights on a political AND financial level. When my kids look back on my time as a young mom or pre-mom, I'm glad to be able to talk about how these issues (and others) moved me - even when they didn't affect me PERSONALLY. Call it "boycotts" call it "sanctions" - nothing gets people to make changes more than squeezing their funds. Look at the changes big business has made in supporting women, minorities, immigrants and LGBTQ rights. Because their shareholders, employees AND CUSTOMERS care - and the young care the most, imo. The more we evaluate our spending/traveling/donations, etc. in light of the bigger picture, the sooner we will get to a more just world. |
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Post by aj2hall on Feb 28, 2022 18:52:25 GMT
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that I don't care about these issues, because I do. Even if they don't affect my family personally today, LGBTQ rights matter. And one day, it might become personal. Respect for others and empathy is something I sincerely hope that my boys have learned. I was only trying to say that my perspective is different from other peas who have LGBTQ family members. For example, I rarely go to the mall but I was at a Bath & Body Works store recently. One of the employees had a name badge printed with my preferred pronouns. The fact that a big retail corporation took that step seemed somewhat significant, I hope other companies follow the lead. And here's where I think my perspective is relevant - I may not have noticed if other companies have already started doing this. Someone with an LGBTQ family member might be more attuned to that. Or just someone who shops in store more frequently than I do.  |
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Post by epeanymous on Feb 28, 2022 19:01:42 GMT
I have had this conversation with family. I think slowly but surely, more and more people will become aware that this is always a possibility in their own lives and their own little bubbles. The hard part for those currently living it is waiting for this to become standard knowledge for everyone. So many people can't see past their current experience and current situation in their own lives. I hope that makes sense.🤔 I think it is true, although it is really crappy for the canary in the coal mine in your family. My oldest came out as a lesbian in middle school, and then as nonbinary late in high school. They got a lot of "it's a phase"I don't get it" and "they are just being annoying" and "why should I learn new pronouns/names" from some family. Now, my neice has come out as nonbinary and a lesbian, in middle school, and is, thankfully, experiencing more acceptance. My oldest is still upset about it, though, and probably won't ever fully trust those family members. |
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Post by pixiechick on Feb 28, 2022 19:08:08 GMT
I have had this conversation with family. I think slowly but surely, more and more people will become aware that this is always a possibility in their own lives and their own little bubbles. The hard part for those currently living it is waiting for this to become standard knowledge for everyone. So many people can't see past their current experience and current situation in their own lives. I hope that makes sense.🤔 it is really crappy for the canary in the coal mine in your family. Yes. |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Feb 28, 2022 19:08:31 GMT
My oldest is still upset about it, though, and probably won't ever fully trust those family members. They definitely do not forget how they were/are treated. My daughter, who has been very private, did tell a few family members. One of them is my cousin whose sil works for Chik fil A. We even all went on a vacation with her and her younger daughter, along with my daughter's girlfriend. Everyone had a great time, and a couple of months later, my cousin's young daughter made some derogatory statements about gay people on Snapchat. Of course, my daughter saw it and was so hurt as this was someone she had felt comfortable being herself with. I know my daughter will never want to be around this person again as it was so hurtful for her to know this girl's true feelings about gay people. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2022 19:10:58 GMT
Sorry, I wasn't trying to imply that I don't care about these issues, because I do. Oh, I didn't take it that way at all. I know you too well to ever believe you wouldn't care just because you're not personally affected. I was just pointing out that our loved ones will feel even more supported if we care about "those issues" even when we don't know that someone in our family/friend group is going through them. They hear us. They see us. What we do matters so much - and that support can mean life or death to them. |
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Post by pixiechick on Feb 28, 2022 19:39:36 GMT
But really, will we?? When we have not only politicians but US Supreme Court judges, who are fairly young and will be around for decades, who are anti gay rights? Will we, when there are people who continue to vote for these politicians? I honestly feel pretty unsure about ever getting there. Yes, I truly believe we will. Look how far we've come with so many other issues. It does take time to move forward as a society, but we do. We have setbacks but we DO move forward. |
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Post by pixiechick on Feb 28, 2022 19:41:14 GMT
I was just pointing out that our loved ones will feel even more supported if we care about "those issues" even when we don't know that someone in our family/friend group is going through them. They hear us. They see us. What we do matters so much - and that support can mean life or death to them. Yes! |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Feb 28, 2022 20:05:40 GMT
Shaming being called out for being negative is quite irrelevant and at best a cultural stance, not a universal one. Many societies around the world have public shaming as part of their system and to dismiss its importance, relevance and impact (positive, too, yes) would be naive at best. There are plenty of psychologists and therapists who discuss both the bad and good sides of shame and what it actually means. The idea of eliminating shame would be quite a scary perspective for human nature. Shame, guilt and remorse are a trio that walk hand in hand when it comes to making mistakes and learning. Shame, especially, is a good teacher. The question is whether we expect other people to experience shame for the sake of our own agendas. That's where the game can turn perverse.
As a socially progressive citizen, I don't really care whether a measure endorsed by a private company touches me directly or not. It doesn't matter that I'm not LGBTQ or, hypothetically, wouldn't known someone belonging to the community. My aim is to support outside of the realm of "because I get it now". I understand other people need to be led through immediate or directly adjacent personal experience to a cause but that's not me (and that, in a way, makes things way easier, especially as a childfree person who otherwise could absolve themselves completely of whatever happens environmentally).
Realising spending is actually part of your political (in)action is probably the biggest hurdle. For a significant margin of people, this privilege isn't available to them (I'm pissed off when middle class and better off people dare to propose nonsensical measures such as home exchange for vacations for poor people, poor people just needing to save money before they buy a piece of clothing instead of getting a cheap fast fashion item, poor people should be buying bulk, etc.) but for the others, it's part of shifting your lifestyle significantly sometimes and that's neither comfortable nor easy. You also suddenly become aware how strong and deep the ties between corporations and political agendas, both nationally and internationally, run. It's very sobering and a great reminder of how little we know as individuals about the world. Overall, beyond the shame (and the growth that can accompany it), it's a humbling act with a positive moral balance.
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Post by hop2 on Feb 28, 2022 20:24:17 GMT
I think we'll get there. But really, will we?? When we have not only politicians but US Supreme Court judges, who are fairly young and will be around for decades, who are anti gay rights? Will we, when there are people who continue to vote for these politicians? I honestly feel pretty unsure about ever getting there. I honestly feel the same way as you. And we have taken so many giant steps backwards with womens rights & autonomy as well. I can’t see a way forward right now since we have backtracked so far. Same with race issues, we’ve turned backwards. And to me it seemed to have happened much faster than any of the strides forwards that we had previously made. I expect my daughters right to vote to be under attack next now that ‘they’ have her womb all back in the 1950’s How can we get there from where we are right now? How? The midterm elections are in 8 months and that is as unsure a turnout as ever. |
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Just T
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Post by Just T on Feb 28, 2022 21:23:37 GMT
But really, will we?? When we have not only politicians but US Supreme Court judges, who are fairly young and will be around for decades, who are anti gay rights? Will we, when there are people who continue to vote for these politicians? I honestly feel pretty unsure about ever getting there. Yes, I truly believe we will. Look how far we've come with so many other issues. It does take time to move forward as a society, but we do. We have setbacks but we DO move forward. Yes we have come a long way. In some ways. But as long as people support the likes of Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Marjorie Taylor Greene, et al...things will never really change. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2022 21:46:16 GMT
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) I cared about these rights on a political AND financial level.
