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Post by thundergal on Mar 29, 2022 22:34:15 GMT
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: "When Will Smith stormed onto the Oscar stage to strike Chris Rock for making a joke about his wife's short hair, he did a lot more damage than just to Rock's face. With a single petulant blow, he advocated violence, diminished women, insulted the entertainment industry, and perpetuated stereotypes about the Black community. That's a lot to unpack. Let's start with the facts: Rock made a reference to Smith's wife, Jada Pinkett Smith, as looking like Demi Moore in 'G.I. Jane,' in which Moore had shaved her head. Jada Pinkett Smith suffers from alopecia, which causes hair loss. Ok, I can see where the Smiths might not have found that joke funny. But Hollywood awards shows are traditionally a venue where much worse things have been said about celebrities as a means of downplaying the fact that it's basically a gathering of multimillionaires giving each other awards to boost business so they can make even more money. The Smiths could have reacted by politely laughing along with the joke or by glowering angrily at Rock. Instead, Smith felt the need to get up in front of his industry peers and millions of people around the world, hit another man, then return to his seat to bellow: 'Keep my wife's name out of your fucking mouth.' Twice. Some have romanticized Smith's actions as that of a loving husband defending his wife. Comedian Tiffany Haddish, who starred in the movie 'Girls Trip' with Pinkett Smith, praised Smith's actions: '[F]or me, it was the most beautiful thing I've ever seen because it made me believe that there are still men out there that love and care about their women, their wives.' Actually, it was the opposite. Smith's slap was also a slap to women. If Rock had physically attacked Pinkett Smith, Smith's intervention would have been welcome. Or if he'd remained in his seat and yelled his post-slap threat, that would have been unnecessary, but understandable. But by hitting Rock, he announced that his wife was incapable of defending herself—against words. From everything I'd seen of Pinkett Smith over the years, she's a very capable, tough, smart woman who can single-handedly take on a lame joke at the Academy Awards show. This patronizing, paternal attitude infantilizes women and reduces them to helpless damsels needing a Big Strong Man to defend their honor least they swoon from the vapors. If he was really doing it for his wife, and not his own need to prove himself, he might have thought about the negative attention this brought on them, much harsher than the benign joke. That would have been truly defending and respecting her. This 'women need men to defend them' is the same justification currently being proclaimed by conservatives passing laws to restrict abortion and the LGBTQ+ community. Worse than the slap was Smith's tearful, self-serving acceptance speech in which he rambled on about all the women in the movie 'King Richard' that he's protected. Those who protect don't brag about it in front of 15 million people. They just do it and shut up. You don't do it as a movie promotion claiming how you're like the character you just won an award portraying. But, of course, the speech was about justifying his violence. Apparently, so many people need Smith's protection that occasionally it gets too much and someone needs to be smacked. What is the legacy of Smith's violence? He's brought back the Toxic Bro ideal of embracing Kobra Kai teachings of 'might makes right' and 'talk is for losers.' Let's not forget that this macho John Wayne philosophy was expressed in two movies in which Wayne spanked grown women to teach them a lesson. Young boys—especially Black boys—watching their movie idol not just hit another man over a joke, but then justify it as him being a superhero-like protector, are now much more prone to follow in his childish footsteps. Perhaps the saddest confirmation of this is the tweet from Smith's child Jaden: 'And That’s How We Do It.' The Black community also takes a direct hit from Smith. One of the main talking points from those supporting the systemic racism in America is characterizing Blacks as more prone to violence and less able to control their emotions. Smith just gave comfort to the enemy by providing them with the perfect optics they were dreaming of. Many will be reinvigorated to continue their campaign to marginalize African Americans and others through voter suppression campaign. As for the damage to show business, Smith's violence is an implied threat to all comedians who now have to worry that an edgy or insulting joke might be met with violence. Good thing Don Rickles, Bill Burr, or Ricky Gervais weren't there. As comedian Kathy Griffin tweeted: 'Now we all have to worry about who wants to be the next Will Smith in comedy clubs and theaters.' The one bright note is that Chris Rock, clearly stunned, managed to handle the moment with grace and maturity. If only Smith's acceptance speech had shown similar grace and maturity—and included, instead of self-aggrandizing excuses, a heartfelt apology to Rock." This is wonderful. I agree with every point he makes.
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Post by cindyupnorth on Mar 29, 2022 22:55:05 GMT
Jada just released a statement.
"this is a season for healing and I'm here for it"
WTH??? lame
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Post by Laurie on Mar 29, 2022 23:14:42 GMT
Last night I couldn’t fall asleep so I spent a bit of time on Tik Tok and saw a lot of videos from black men that basically expressed what Abdul-Jabbar is saying. A lot of the men also voiced their displeasure with Jada stating that here is your husband cementing his legacy and you didn’t try to be a voice of reason and hold him back. While he is being idolized as her protector in that stereotypical male role then why isn’t she being held to the stereotypical female role of being the mental protector where she steps in and says it’s not worth it. Other comments were that she made a fool out of him on her show basically saying she slept with her sons friend because he was inadequate and then she let him make a fool out of himself by his reaction. That is why people are saying she is toxic for him.
FTR, none of those viewpoints are mine. I still maintain he was wrong but it’s time to move past it. I do understand why black men are unhappy with his reaction because he just fueled that stereotype of black men are more violent. Unfortunately that is how some people will see it and not that he was just a fucking idiot that reacted very poorly.
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Post by pjaye on Mar 30, 2022 1:14:04 GMT
I still maintain he was wrong but it’s time to move past it It's definitely not time to "move past it" this has many repercussions and important discussions that need to be had and it's not something you just sweep under the carpet and forget about. I don't think Smith needs to be cancelled or anything like that, BUT he's going to be talking about this (and rightfully so) for a long time. I'd hope after some reflection and advice from others, he'll come to see why it was problematic on multiple levels, and he needs to have that God complex psychoanalyzed out of him by a professional. I think on the whole he probably is a nice guy, but even nice guys can have issues that they need to deal with...and we all just saw his play out very publicly. I really liked the Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's statement. He said several things I agree with and didn't feel comfortable posting because it's not my place to comment on how the black community feels about anything. I think he made several really important points that look at the bigger picture of this. I think he's especially right on his analysis of the idea of "men need to protect women" is the same thought process as "men need to make rules for women" and that's very problematic. Jada's comment is 'interesting'...what what can she say at this point? Whatever she says now, or whoever she defends it's going to piss someone off....her husband and his defenders, comedians or women all over the world. She's in a no win situation, and if Will hadn't stolen her voice and if she handled it herself the conversations about her & Chris Rock would be very different right now.
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Post by Zee on Mar 30, 2022 3:01:06 GMT
I think Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is spot on.
I know my husband "has my back" without needing him to address other men for me. As for the argument that other men don't receive push back from women well, that's on them. I don't care how it looks when I defend myself (verbally). It's never ever been something I've hesitated to do when necessary.
And female comedians go after men all the time, a GI Jane reference is pretty darn tame.
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Post by dewryce on Mar 30, 2022 3:17:26 GMT
I agree with y’all that I don’t need my husband to stand up for me; I’m fortunate the way my mom raised me enabled me to do so. However, my best friend since we were 7 has only just found her confidence, and you can bet that I have spoken in her defense.
And I think it’s important to recognize that the people who purposefully insult/bully/mortify other people will often not ‘hear’ what their victim or victim class is saying, but might when say, a peer says something. For example, mens’ “it was just a joke” when demeaning women. I think many of these men are more likely to respond better to another man than they are the woman they are “joking” with. And they’re even less likely to do it when they get constant pushback from many people because they’re not getting the response they want.
A personal example of my husband standing up for me? My MIL can really pick at me. If I say something in response, no matter how I handle it, she just keeps going. This is a 29 year relationship and I’ve tried everything, including working with my therapist on my responses. If my DH is there and he says something she automatically shuts it.
So I believe there can be a lot of value in speaking up for someone. However, assaulting someone isn’t standing up for anyone.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 30, 2022 3:40:33 GMT
SOoooooooo...... Chris Rock is not Will Smith’s first awards show slapBy Emily Smith March 29, 2022 | 12:17am Video from 2012 shows Smith backhanding Ukrainian jokester Vitalii Sediuk, who was posing as a reporter, in the face while doing interviews for his movie in Moscow. Seduik — whose wild altercations with celebrities have seen him arrested or served with restraining orders — overstepped the mark when he bizarrely reached out to kiss Smith on both cheeks, claiming that was a traditional Ukrainian greeting. nypost.com/2022/03/29/chris-rock-is-not-will-smiths-first-awards-show-slap/
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Post by lesserknownpea on Mar 30, 2022 6:49:08 GMT
I very much appreciated Carrey’s points. Especially that this act took away and cheated so many Oscar winners and nominees from their special night. As an actor, he can speak to the fact that actors and all the others involved in the movie making business work very hard, and to get to the point of your work being noticed, ( for some, a once in a lifetime proposition), only to have the air sucked out of the room by one childish act that is the only thing anybody remembers, or talks about is a real shame. I also liked how much Carrey hated that Smith got that ovation.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 13:42:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 14:12:23 GMT
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Mar 30, 2022 14:35:32 GMT
His punishment is that he won’t be the presenter next year—for the same award he just received as traditionally done.
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Post by christine58 on Mar 30, 2022 22:43:01 GMT
ABC news is reporting the Academy asked him to leave after it happened and Smith refused to leave.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 13:42:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 23:20:14 GMT
ABC news is reporting the Academy asked him to leave after it happened and Smith refused to leave. Was just coming to share that. Here is an article from ABC 7 Los Angeles. LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- The Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences said Wednesday that Will Smith was asked to leave Sunday's Oscars after hitting Chris Rock but refused. Many have questioned why Smith was allowed to remain seated front row at the Academy Awards after the incident. On Wednesday, the academy suggested that it attempted to remove the actor from the audience. "Things unfolded in a way we could not have anticipated," the academy said. "While we would like to clarify that Mr. Smith was asked to leave the ceremony and refused, we also recognize we could have handled the situation differently." The academy's board of governors met Wednesday to initiate disciplinary proceedings against Smith for violations against the group's standards of conduct. The academy said Smith has the opportunity to defend himself in a written response before the board meets again on April 18. The academy said disciplinary action for Smith could include suspension, expulsion or other sanctions.The film academy earlier condemned Smith's onstage assault of Rock. But it used stronger language Wednesday. "Mr. Smith's actions at the 94th Oscars were a deeply shocking, traumatic event to witness in-person and on television," the academy said. "Mr. Rock, we apologize to you for what you experienced on our stage and thank you for your resilience in that moment. We also apologize to our nominees, guests and viewers for what transpired during what should have been a celebratory event." On Monday, Smith issued an apology to Rock, the academy and to viewers, saying "I was out of line and I was wrong." Whoopi Goldberg is on the academy's board. She said she does not believe Smith's Oscar should be taken away from him. But on "The View" Wednesday, Goldberg suggested Smith does need to be punished. "There are consequences, there are big consequences," she said.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 13:42:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 23:29:19 GMT
Hollywood needs to take a long hard, deep inner look at itself and make some big changes quickly. For the audience to clap and give a standing O after Will won is not okay. To go and praise someone who just struck another person is not okay. To steal the light from others who worked just as hard to win is not okay. They don't support each other. They don't support us. They just care about their money and their lifestyles.
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Post by MichyM on Mar 30, 2022 23:31:48 GMT
Not my circus, not my monkeys, but expulsion sounds about right to me. At the very least.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 13:42:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 23:33:17 GMT
Not my circus, not my monkeys, but expulsion sounds about right to me. At the very least. I wonder how that affects an actor/actress other than not being able to win. Like do movie studios/directors not hire based on that knowing their top paid actor/actress won't be able to win them titles?
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Post by MichyM on Mar 30, 2022 23:36:26 GMT
Not my circus, not my monkeys, but expulsion sounds about right to me. At the very least. I wonder how that affects an actor/actress other than not being able to win. Like do movie studios/directors not hire based on that knowing their top paid actor/actress won't be able to win them titles? Good question. I’m going to text someone in my life who might have some knowledge to get his take…
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Post by mom on Mar 30, 2022 23:36:42 GMT
ABC news is reporting the Academy asked him to leave after it happened and Smith refused to leave. Like, how does that work? You hit someone in public and the establishment asks you to leave. You say no and that's it? You can claim you asked and they refused, so nothing else needed to happen? What a mess and I think it just highlights how the rules aren't for everyone.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 13:42:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2022 23:39:35 GMT
ABC news is reporting the Academy asked him to leave after it happened and Smith refused to leave. Like, how does that work? You hit someone in public and the establishment asks you to leave. You say no and that's it? You can claim you asked and they refused, so nothing else needed to happen? What a mess and I think it just highlights how the rules aren't for everyone. Makes me wonder if they didn't want to create a scene with PD rolling down there to forceable remove Will ?
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Post by MichyM on Mar 30, 2022 23:41:01 GMT
Like, how does that work? You hit someone in public and the establishment asks you to leave. You say no and that's it? You can claim you asked and they refused, so nothing else needed to happen? What a mess and I think it just highlights how the rules aren't for everyone. Makes me wonder if they didn't want to create a scene with PD rolling down there to forceable remove Will ? My thoughts. That could have been quite a shitshow. They had only about a 90 second commercial break a few minutes after the incident…
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,940
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Mar 30, 2022 23:46:12 GMT
My guess? Their "asking him to leave" was more like "are you okay? Do you need to leave?" and he said no and they carried on.
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Post by MichyM on Mar 30, 2022 23:58:29 GMT
Not my circus, not my monkeys, but expulsion sounds about right to me. At the very least. I wonder how that affects an actor/actress other than not being able to win. Like do movie studios/directors not hire based on that knowing their top paid actor/actress won't be able to win them titles? In a nutshell, his response was yes. If that happens, he says the industry will likely brand him untouchable.
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Post by refugeepea on Mar 30, 2022 23:58:31 GMT
I'm late to commenting, but my opinion is that Chris Rock is a POS for making that comment. Pretty damn low making fun of someone's medical condition. Based on past history, I have a feeling he's aware of Jada's condition. I was not, so who knows? Maybe he didn't either. Also, hair is a HUGE thing in the black community for women. HUGE! It doesn't matter that she can buy whatever wig she wants. So, *if* he did know, he knew exactly what he was doing. After all, he did a documentary about this very topic.
Will punching Chris Rock was NOT the way to handle the situation. Will should have left. Yes, it bothers me people stood up and applauded when he won the Oscar. I do wonder if a lot of people were still in shock or there were others further away who didn't hear what was going on? Then again, Roman Polanski, convicted child sex offender who evaded arrest in the United States won an Oscar and it was a standing ovation. A man wanted for *years*.
So what happens to Will when in the past it literally did not matter. So yeah, in this context depending on the punishment it appears there may be a double standard in play here. A punch in the face vs raping a 13 year old.
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Post by belgravia on Mar 31, 2022 0:23:21 GMT
I'm late to commenting, but my opinion is that Chris Rock is a POS for making that comment. Pretty damn low making fun of someone's medical condition. Based on past history, I have a feeling he's aware of Jada's condition. I was not, so who knows? Maybe he didn't either. Also, hair is a HUGE thing in the black community for women. HUGE! It doesn't matter that she can buy whatever wig she wants. So, *if* he did know, he knew exactly what he was doing. After all, he did a documentary about this very topic. Will punching Chris Rock was NOT the way to handle the situation. Will should have left. Yes, it bothers me people stood up and applauded when he won the Oscar. I do wonder if a lot of people were still in shock or there were others further away who didn't hear what was going on? Then again, Roman Polanski, convicted child sex offender who evaded arrest in the United States won an Oscar and it was a standing ovation. A man wanted for *years*. So what happens to Will when in the past it literally did not matter. So yeah, in this context depending on the punishment it appears there may be a double standard in play here. A punch in the face vs raping a 13 year old. Don’t forget about Harvey Weinstein. All the Oscars he and the Weinstein Company won…Hollywood has a big problem that goes a lot deeper than Will Smith bitch slapping Chris Rock. I guess that’s why I’m having a hard time mustering up much in the way of outrage over this.
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Post by refugeepea on Mar 31, 2022 0:41:26 GMT
Don’t forget about Harvey Weinstein. All the Oscars he and the Weinstein Company won…Hollywood has a big problem that goes a lot deeper than Will Smith bitch slapping Chris Rock. I guess that’s why I’m having a hard time mustering up much in the way of outrage over this. Very true. A long history of all kinds of shit. So yeah, what he did was terrible, but if he gets punished? Ugh.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 31, 2022 2:14:25 GMT
ABC news is reporting the Academy asked him to leave after it happened and Smith refused to leave. Like, how does that work? You hit someone in public and the establishment asks you to leave. You say no and that's it? You can claim you asked and they refused, so nothing else needed to happen? What a mess and I think it just highlights how the rules aren't for everyone. Exactly. Like who is he to refuse? This makes him look even worse. I wonder if they knew he was going to win and wanted him there to collect his award? 😑
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Post by Bridget in MD on Mar 31, 2022 2:16:12 GMT
Don’t forget about Harvey Weinstein. All the Oscars he and the Weinstein Company won…Hollywood has a big problem that goes a lot deeper than Will Smith bitch slapping Chris Rock. I guess that’s why I’m having a hard time mustering up much in the way of outrage over this. Very true. A long history of all kinds of shit. So yeah, what he did was terrible, but if he gets punished? Ugh. And woody Allen. 🤮
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Post by pjaye on Mar 31, 2022 3:07:28 GMT
Will punching Chris Rock was NOT the way to handle the situation. Will should have left. Yes, it bothers me people stood up and applauded when he won the Oscar. I do wonder if a lot of people were still in shock or there were others further away who didn't hear what was going on? Then again, Roman Polanski, convicted child sex offender who evaded arrest in the United States won an Oscar and it was a standing ovation. A man wanted for *years*. And let's add Woody Allen to the list. Those are murky waters for sure...and I'm not claiming to know the answer. In general I'm one who doesn't separate the art & the artist...if a person does something I find morally objectionable I will no longer watch anything they were involved with. But it gets harder when one person was the criminal but there were a lot of other good people involved. No way should Polanski have ever been allowed to be nominated let alone win, in my opinion, but it was 20 years ago now, so I'd like to think that he wouldn't get a standing ovation now...but who knows. Same with Woody Allen, yet when the subject comes up here, there's still plenty of women who say they love his movies, which I will never understand. Then there's the people who still choose to work with them, Kate Winslet has worked with both Polanski & Allen, and it does affect my opinion of her, does it put her on the same level as them? Do I never watch anything else she is in? it's a grey area for me. I don't really see the point with Weinstein though, he's been punished by a far higher authority and in a much worse way than anything The Academy could dish out. And he still won the Oscars at the time, and we can't go back and change history, so taking them away seems kind of pointless because it doesn't change anything. Plus he's never going to be in a situation where he'll be eligible for another one. They could take them away as a token gesture, but he's well and truly disgraced now without that happening anyway.
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Post by Laurie on Mar 31, 2022 3:11:04 GMT
Don’t forget about Harvey Weinstein. All the Oscars he and the Weinstein Company won…Hollywood has a big problem that goes a lot deeper than Will Smith bitch slapping Chris Rock. I guess that’s why I’m having a hard time mustering up much in the way of outrage over this. Very true. A long history of all kinds of shit. So yeah, what he did was terrible, but if he gets punished? Ugh. Right now I am of the opinion that it doesn’t need to be taken away from Will. However, I don’t believe the decision needs to be based off on how it compares to Weinstein. So now only people that have raped more woman than Weinstein will be punished? Eh so and so only raped 73 woman so we can’t punish him.KWIM?
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Post by belgravia on Mar 31, 2022 3:16:50 GMT
Very true. A long history of all kinds of shit. So yeah, what he did was terrible, but if he gets punished? Ugh. Right now I am of the opinion that it doesn’t need to be taken away from Will. However, I don’t believe the decision needs to be based off on how it compares to Weinstein. So now only people that have raped more woman than Weinstein will be punished? Eh so and so only raped 73 woman so we can’t punish him.KWIM? [br People want Will Smith stripped of his Oscar. My point was, if the Academy is going to start stripping people of awards, Will Smith is not the person to start with.
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Post by mom on Mar 31, 2022 3:20:06 GMT
I dont think Smith should lose his award. I don't think he should have been in attendance to accept the award. The moment Smith acted out of control, he should have been escorted out. There should have never been the option of him sticking around.
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