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Post by SAHM wannabe on Apr 30, 2022 9:00:27 GMT
I need help with the correct placement of the apostrophe in the following tagline. It will be used in a program highlighting a group of senior girls. They chose the line to show they’ll always be there for each other. TIA!
A. Real queens fix each other’s crowns.
B. Real queens fix each others’ crowns.
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Post by lesserknownpea on Apr 30, 2022 9:07:20 GMT
B.
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Post by joteves on Apr 30, 2022 9:52:02 GMT
A 'each other' does not exist in plural so the possessive s goes after the apostrophe
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maryannscraps
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,791
Aug 28, 2017 12:51:28 GMT
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Post by maryannscraps on Apr 30, 2022 10:54:39 GMT
A. 'Each other' is singular - the 'each' makes it a singular queen fixing a crown, happening multiple multiple times.
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Post by gramasue on Apr 30, 2022 11:27:41 GMT
A.
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Post by littlemama on Apr 30, 2022 11:27:52 GMT
A. Each means singlular, therefore other's for the posessive.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 7:28:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 11:36:07 GMT
A.
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Post by monklady123 on Apr 30, 2022 12:07:38 GMT
It's A. Often it can help to take this type of sentence apart or reword it... Like the whole "me" vs. "I" questions -- "He gave it to Jim and me/I" -- You know it's "me" if you say "he gave it to Jim" and "he gave it to me"... Anyway, substitute another word for "other" -- like " they gave each player a new helmet". You wouldn't say "they gave each players a new helmet" so that's how you know "player" is singular. Same with "other". You might say "they gave each other a crown", and you wouldn't say "they gave each others a crown". So that's how you know "other" is singular. You could say "they gave the others a crown" and in that case "others" is plural. Sorry...former English teacher, I can't help myself.
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peabay
Prolific Pea
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Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Apr 30, 2022 12:09:51 GMT
I love these threads. I would've picked B - for no good reason - and I was really happy to be educated on this. Thank you!
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Post by Crack-a-lackin on Apr 30, 2022 12:22:30 GMT
Should it be crown or crowns?
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 7:28:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 13:05:02 GMT
Should it be crown or crowns? No, there is more than one Queen so there is more than one crown. The " each other" in the sentence makes the Queens individual people so fixing their crowns becomes a possessive apostrophe to each individually queen.
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Post by SAHM wannabe on Apr 30, 2022 15:59:51 GMT
Thank you so much!!
A it is!!
I’m in charge of having the program printed and would have been mortified had I used the incorrect version!
Thank you for being such a reliable resource. I was planning on asking my teacher friends (I’m a teacher too), but I knew I could find an accurate, expert answer here!
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Post by Jockscrap on Apr 30, 2022 21:29:03 GMT
Thank you so much!! A it is!! I’m in charge of having the program printed and would have been mortified had I used the incorrect version! Thank you for being such a reliable resource. I was planning on asking my teacher friends (I’m a teacher too), but I knew I could find an accurate, expert answer here! As someone who has recently used the grammar power of the peas, I second this!
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Post by AussieMeg on May 1, 2022 0:16:02 GMT
I love these threads. I would've picked B - for no good reason - and I was really happy to be educated on this. Thank you! Same here! I might even bookmark this thread as a reminder.
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Post by lucyg on May 1, 2022 2:55:49 GMT
I’m late to the party, but A.
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PaperAngel
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Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on May 1, 2022 6:02:23 GMT
Should it be crown or crowns? No, there is more than one Queen so there is more than one crown. The " each other" in the sentence makes the Queens individual people so fixing their crowns becomes a possessive apostrophe to each individually queen. IMHO crown (singular) is more logical since an individual has only one head on which to wear a crown; even if an individual owns multiple crowns, only one can be worn at a time. To demonstrate, substitute the word person for other to read "Real queens fix each person's crown" vs "Real queens fix each person's crowns." The latter implies each person is wearing multiple crowns at once; unless referring to dental work, it doesn't make sense. I prefer REAL QUEENS FIX EACH OTHER'S CROWN.
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RedSquirrelUK
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Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on May 1, 2022 8:45:59 GMT
No, there is more than one Queen so there is more than one crown. The " each other" in the sentence makes the Queens individual people so fixing their crowns becomes a possessive apostrophe to each individually queen. IMHO crown (singular) is more logical since an individual has only one head on which to wear a crown; even if an individual owns multiple crowns, only one can be worn at a time. To demonstrate, substitute the word person for other to read "Real queens fix each person's crown" vs "Real queens fix each person's crowns." The latter implies each person is wearing multiple crowns at once; unless referring to dental work, it doesn't make sense. I prefer REAL QUEENS FIX EACH OTHER'S CROWN. "Each other" is a contraction of "each (or every) other person". As each one of those can have a crown, "crowns" should be plural. Contractions are confusing from a grammar point of view. If you expand the contraction, you get a better sense of whether it is singular or plural.
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PaperAngel
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Post by PaperAngel on May 2, 2022 3:46:23 GMT
IMHO crown (singular) is more logical since an individual has only one head on which to wear a crown; even if an individual owns multiple crowns, only one can be worn at a time. To demonstrate, substitute the word person for other to read "Real queens fix each person's crown" vs "Real queens fix each person's crowns." The latter implies each person is wearing multiple crowns at once; unless referring to dental work, it doesn't make sense. I prefer REAL QUEENS FIX EACH OTHER'S CROWN. "Each other" is a contraction of "each (or every) other person". As each one of those can have a crown, "crowns" should be plural. Contractions are confusing from a grammar point of view. If you expand the contraction, you get a better sense of whether it is singular or plural. Please link a source for "each other" as a contraction. While "Real queens fix each other's crowns" is the common phrase (seen on tee-shirts, mugs, etc.), IMHO "Real queens fix each other's crown" is more logical (& Real queens fix one another's crown" is the more formal & technically correct phrase, since "each other" generally refers to two people & "one another" more than two people).
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Post by lucyg on May 2, 2022 5:40:09 GMT
"Each other" is a contraction of "each (or every) other person". As each one of those can have a crown, "crowns" should be plural. Contractions are confusing from a grammar point of view. If you expand the contraction, you get a better sense of whether it is singular or plural. Please link a source for "each other" as a contraction. While "Real queens fix each other's crowns" is the common phrase (seen on tee-shirts, mugs, etc.), IMHO "Real queens fix each other's crown" is more logical (& Real queens fix one another's crown" is the more formal & technically correct phrase, since "each other" generally refers to two people & "one another" more than two people). I disagree with your assessment, and I actually get paid to edit/proofread the written word. There is no implication in “real queens fix each other’s crowns” that there are only two queens fixing each other’s crown one at a time, and even if there were, it still doesn’t sound right. Even if you can make a legitimate argument that grammar rules call for a singular crown, there is such a thing as idiomatic English. That’s why “it’s me” is just as acceptable in American English as the more formally proper (but awkward-sounding to our ears) “it is I.” I vote for “real queens fix each other’s crowns.” gottapeanow, do you have an opinion on this?
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Ryann
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Post by Ryann on May 2, 2022 6:08:01 GMT
I totally would have picked the wrong one! I’m great at spelling but shit at grammar. I moved around a lot growing up. The last “official” grammar lesson I had was in third grade. ☺️
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gottapeanow
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Jun 25, 2014 20:56:09 GMT
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Post by gottapeanow on May 2, 2022 6:10:51 GMT
Please link a source for "each other" as a contraction. While "Real queens fix each other's crowns" is the common phrase (seen on tee-shirts, mugs, etc.), IMHO "Real queens fix each other's crown" is more logical (& Real queens fix one another's crown" is the more formal & technically correct phrase, since "each other" generally refers to two people & "one another" more than two people). I disagree with your assessment, and I actually get paid to edit/proofread the written word. There is no implication in “real queens fix each other’s crowns” that there are only two queens fixing each other’s crown one at a time, and even if there were, it still doesn’t sound right. Even if you can make a legitimate argument that grammar rules call for a singular crown, there is such a thing as idiomatic English. That’s why “it’s me” is just as acceptable in American English as the more formally proper (but awkward-sounding to our ears) “it is I.” I vote for “real queens fix each other’s crowns.” gottapeanow , do you have an opinion on this? Imagine that, I was just reading your comment, Lucy, and then I realized you tagged me! (For those who don't know, I'm a professional editor and proofreader in my day job.) And yes, I do have an opinion on this. <shock of all shocks!> According to Merriam-Webster Dictionary, "each other" can refer to more than two of an object. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/each%20otherI concur with Lucy and the other peas who said A. It should be "real queens fix each other's crowns." There are queens (plural), so there are crowns (plural). However, "each other" is not considered a contraction as there are no missing letters or sounds. See here for the definition of contraction: a shortening of a word, syllable, or word group by omission of a sound or letter; also : a form produced by such shortening www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/contractionLisa
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PaperAngel
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Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on May 2, 2022 6:14:28 GMT
Please link a source for "each other" as a contraction. While "Real queens fix each other's crowns" is the common phrase (seen on tee-shirts, mugs, etc.), IMHO "Real queens fix each other's crown" is more logical (& Real queens fix one another's crown" is the more formal & technically correct phrase, since "each other" generally refers to two people & "one another" more than two people). I disagree with your assessment, and I actually get paid to edit/proofread the written word. There is no implication in “real queens fix each other’s crowns” that there are only two queens fixing each other’s crown one at a time, and even if there were, it still doesn’t sound right. Even if you can make a legitimate argument that grammar rules call for a singular crown, there is such a thing as idiomatic English. That’s why “it’s me” is just as acceptable in American English as the more formally proper (but awkward-sounding to our ears) “it is I.” I vote for “real queens fix each other’s crowns.” gottapeanow , do you have an opinion on this? Obviously, "real queens fix each other's crowns" is the idiomatic English given it's found on tee-shirts, mugs, etc. I find it fascinating while "real queens fix each other's crown" seems more logical & "real queens fix one another's crown" may be technically correct, neither "sound right" nor are the common phrase used. As an expert, please address "each other" as a contraction (per RedSquirrelUK ). [Answered by gottapeanow in above post]
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Post by lucyg on May 2, 2022 7:07:33 GMT
I disagree with your assessment, and I actually get paid to edit/proofread the written word. There is no implication in “real queens fix each other’s crowns” that there are only two queens fixing each other’s crown one at a time, and even if there were, it still doesn’t sound right. Even if you can make a legitimate argument that grammar rules call for a singular crown, there is such a thing as idiomatic English. That’s why “it’s me” is just as acceptable in American English as the more formally proper (but awkward-sounding to our ears) “it is I.” I vote for “real queens fix each other’s crowns.” gottapeanow , do you have an opinion on this? Obviously, "real queens fix each other's crowns" is the idiomatic English given it's found on tee-shirts, mugs, etc. I find it fascinating while "real queens fix each other's crown" seems more logical & "real queens fix one another's crown" may be technically correct, neither "sound right" nor are the common phrase used. As an expert, please address "each other" as a contraction (per RedSquirrelUK ). [Answered by gottapeanow in above post] I know you withdrew the question, but I couldn’t have answered it anyway. My feeling would have been “that’s not what I’d call a contraction,” but lots of grammar standards are different in British English, and I am not an expert in their rules. I’m not even an expert in OUR rules. I’m just experienced and somewhat knowledgeable. gottapeanow is the real expert.
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Deleted
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Oct 7, 2024 7:28:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 7:29:57 GMT
I disagree with your assessment, and I actually get paid to edit/proofread the written word. There is no implication in “real queens fix each other’s crowns” that there are only two queens fixing each other’s crown one at a time, and even if there were, it still doesn’t sound right. Even if you can make a legitimate argument that grammar rules call for a singular crown, there is such a thing as idiomatic English. That’s why “it’s me” is just as acceptable in American English as the more formally proper (but awkward-sounding to our ears) “it is I.” I vote for “real queens fix each other’s crowns.” gottapeanow , do you have an opinion on this? Obviously, "real queens fix each other's crowns" is the idiomatic English given it's found on tee-shirts, mugs, etc. I find it fascinating while "real queens fix each other's crown" seems more logical & "real queens fix one another's crown" may be technically correct, neither "sound right" nor are the common phrase used. As an expert, please address "each other" as a contraction (per RedSquirrelUK ). [Answered by gottapeanow in above post] Just because something is written on a tee-shires or mugs doesn't always make it correct but in this case it does. It is grammatically correct to use the plural of crowns.
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gottapeanow
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Jun 25, 2014 20:56:09 GMT
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Post by gottapeanow on May 2, 2022 23:24:42 GMT
Thanks, lucyg. I follow Chicago Manual of Style or The Associated Press Stylebook as applicable. They sometimes contradict each as to how to handle punctuation. The key has been lots of practice, lots of reading of those style books, and engagement with great peeps in editing groups. I don't know style guides for other English-speaking countries very well, although I have done some editing for people in England, Australia, Canada, etc. Most of the rules are not set in stone, and there is some flexibility on certain things. For example, per CMoS, all of the following are correct. So . . . let’s write one. So! Let’s write one. So—let’s write one. (Note: That punctuation mark is called an em dash.) So, let’s write one. So let’s write one. etc. See this link, for those who want to geek out. (I know Lucy will love it!) Scroll down to the third question about starting a sentence with "so." www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Commas.html?page=2Lisa
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AmeliaBloomer
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on May 2, 2022 23:53:50 GMT
A lively grammar thread. Tra-to-the-la.
My thinking is that “crown” should technically be singular so that it agrees with “each” and “other,” both of which are singular. Then again, technically we’re supposed to produce agree-able (heh) utterances like “None of us is perfect,” and who does that? (Well, all the nuns who taught me, but that’s another story…)
So, it just sounds right to make “crowns” plural.*
*Please note I put a comma after “so.” I mean, duh.
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Post by lucyg on May 3, 2022 3:01:31 GMT
gottapeanow said: “So—let’s write one. (Note: That punctuation mark is called an em dash.)” And I’d find it a lot easier to read certain pea posts if the peas would learn the difference between a hyphen and an em dash. (For those interested in doing it right, two hyphens together is [not are, unless GPN says differently] equivalent to an em dash. One hyphen between words just looks like a compound word. I always have to stop and figure out what you’re really trying to say.) There was something else I wanted to say, but now I’m all sidetracked and can’t remember.
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gottapeanow
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Post by gottapeanow on May 3, 2022 4:47:52 GMT
gottapeanow said: “So—let’s write one. (Note: That punctuation mark is called an em dash.)” And I’d find it a lot easier to read certain pea posts if the peas would learn the difference between a hyphen and an em dash. (For those interested in doing it right, two hyphens together is [not are, unless GPN says differently] equivalent to an em dash. One hyphen between words just looks like a compound word. I always have to stop and figure out what you’re really trying to say.) There was something else I wanted to say, but now I’m all sidetracked and can’t remember. This is helpful as well: hyphen: - en dash: – (on your desktop/laptop [not Mac], hold down alt and enter 0150) em dash: — (on your desktop/laptop [not Mac], hold down alt and enter 0151) Pro tip: The above codes work for en dashes and em dashes on social media too. And gently, "two hyphens together are." Because "they are." Please post if you remember what else you wanted to say, Lucy. Lisa
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Post by lucyg on May 3, 2022 6:21:46 GMT
gottapeanow said: “So—let’s write one. (Note: That punctuation mark is called an em dash.)” And I’d find it a lot easier to read certain pea posts if the peas would learn the difference between a hyphen and an em dash. (For those interested in doing it right, two hyphens together is [not are, unless GPN says differently] equivalent to an em dash. One hyphen between words just looks like a compound word. I always have to stop and figure out what you’re really trying to say.) There was something else I wanted to say, but now I’m all sidetracked and can’t remember. This is helpful as well: hyphen: - en dash: – (on your desktop/laptop [not Mac], hold down alt and enter 0150) em dash: — (on your desktop/laptop [not Mac], hold down alt and enter 0151) Pro tip: The above codes work for en dashes and em dashes on social media too. And gently, "two hyphens together are." Because "they are." Please post if you remember what else you wanted to say, Lucy. Lisa I consider “two hyphens together” to be a singular group, but I am willing to accept your greater knowledge (and only do it behind your back). HA HA HA And I remembered after I posted, but now it’s gone again.
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gottapeanow
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Post by gottapeanow on May 3, 2022 6:41:21 GMT
I'm pretty certain it's "are." But I can't find a good source to back that up atm.
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