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Post by belgravia on May 8, 2022 4:20:01 GMT
What a fucking horror show. “Domestic supply of infants” is one of the most chilling phrases I’ve ever heard.
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Post by dewryce on May 8, 2022 5:22:01 GMT
If this is the way they are thinking, shouldn’t we want less “adoptable” babies so that people who can’t bear their own children are forced to adopt from the foster system? I mean, if they’re going to get all up in my decisions about my uterus, why not take it all the way?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 8, 2022 10:29:02 GMT
If this is the way they are thinking, shouldn’t we want less “adoptable” babies so that people who can’t bear their own children are forced to adopt from the foster system? I mean, if they’re going to get all up in my decisions about my uterus, why not take it all the way? They choose not to adopt the babies available now. They want their perfect blonde hair, blue eyed ......
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Post by hop2 on May 8, 2022 11:04:48 GMT
Question for those radical right infertile couples: ( which I would never ask a decent person trying to adopt. ) But, since some wackos are using their religion to take others right away for those wackos I have a question.
If everything is ‘gods will’ and god hadn’t given you a baby then why should anyone else give you their baby to raise? I mean it’s gods will right?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 8, 2022 13:07:59 GMT
Question for those radical right infertile couples: ( which I would never ask a decent person trying to adopt. ) But, since some wackos are using their religion to take others right away for those wackos I have a question. If everything is ‘gods will’ and god hadn’t given you a baby then why should anyone else give you their baby to raise? I mean it’s gods will right? So well said!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 8, 2022 13:28:22 GMT
Somebody is finally addressing this on print.. COMMENTARY Adoption means abortion just isn't necessary, SCOTUS claims: That's even worse than it sounds Adoption has a supply-and-demand problem. Amy Coney Barrett and her pals on the Supreme Court have the solutionBy KATHRYN JOYCE PUBLISHED MAY 3, 2022 3:00PM (EDT) Less abortion, more adoption. Why is that controversial?" That was the response of Rep. Dan Crenshaw, R-Texas, to Politico's bombshell revelation Monday night: a leaked Supreme Court majority opinion suggesting that we face the imminent reversal of Roe v. Wade. About halfway through the 98-page opinion, which was authored by conservative Justice Samuel Alito — and which Chief Justice John Roberts acknowledged on Tuesday as genuine — came a familiar argument: that "modern developments," including the availability of "safe-haven" laws, which allow parents to anonymously relinquish babies without legal repercussions, have rendered abortion unnecessary. The opinion noted that "a woman who puts her newborn up for adoption today has little reason to fear that the baby will not find a suitable home." Tucked into a footnote for that statement was a telling citation from a 2008 CDC report that found "nearly 1 million women were seeking to adopt children in 2002 (i.e., they were in demand for a child), whereas the domestic supply of infants relinquished at birth or within the first month of life and available to be adopted had become virtually nonexistent."As Politico noted, that passage strongly resembled the argument Justice Amy Coney Barrett made last December, when the case in question, Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, concerning Mississippi's 15-week abortion ban, came before the court. During oral arguments, Barrett, who is herself an adoptive mother, suggested that the existence of safe-haven laws and adoption in general rendered moot the pro-choice argument that abortion access protects women from "forced motherhood." Rather, she continued, "the choice, more focused, would be between, say, the ability to get an abortion at 23 weeks, or the state requiring the woman to go 15, 16 weeks more and then terminate parental rights at the conclusion." [/b] Critics quickly pointed out that safe-haven laws are so rarely used that in many states the number of infants relinquished through them each year can be counted in single digits. But the larger problem is more basic: the suggestion that adoption entails nothing more than several months of inconvenience before women can wash their hands of the entire ordeal profoundly fails to understand how relinquishment affects parents. After reporting on adoption issues for more than a decade, it's clear to me that anyone who argues that adoption is a tidy solution to the abortion debate has never spoken with — or actually listened to — the people most affected by that decision. ........... www.salon.com/2022/05/03/adoption-makes-abortion-unnecessary-claims-the-right-thats-even-worse-than-it-sounds/
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anniebeth24
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,778
Jun 26, 2014 14:12:17 GMT
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Post by anniebeth24 on May 8, 2022 14:00:27 GMT
Twenty six years ago, I became the adoptive mother of a blonde, blue-eyed, healthy, 5-week old girl. I am appalled to think that someone considers that a supply chain transaction.
Especially on Mother's Day when my heart absolutely aches for her birth mom (and dad).
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on May 8, 2022 16:22:01 GMT
Children are not a commodity and women are not a supply chain.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Nov 23, 2024 21:57:00 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2022 16:43:56 GMT
What’s next a register of rape/ incest/ minors to keep the supply chain going? It’s a disgusting way of describing a shortage of babies for adoption whether one agrees with abortion or not. He’s not dealing with a supply and manufacture of domestic gas for goodness sake!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 8, 2022 16:57:18 GMT
Unfortunately it seems that quoted comment about supply is on the CDC statements somewhere.. *** Tucked into a footnote for that statement was a telling citation from a 2008 CDC report that found "nearly 1 million women were seeking to adopt children in 2002 (i.e., they were in demand for a child), whereas the domestic supply of infants relinquished at birth or within the first month of life and available to be adopted had become virtually nonexistent."www.salon.com/2022/05/03/adoption-makes-abortion-unnecessary-claims-the-right-thats-even-worse-than-it-sounds/Sorry I didn't realize the piece was just a few posts up. It is hard, but worth reading the whole commentary..
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Post by Merge on May 8, 2022 20:03:13 GMT
Unfortunately it seems that quoted comment about supply is on the CDC statements somewhere.. *** Tucked into a footnote for that statement was a telling citation from a 2008 CDC report that found "nearly 1 million women were seeking to adopt children in 2002 (i.e., they were in demand for a child), whereas the domestic supply of infants relinquished at birth or within the first month of life and available to be adopted had become virtually nonexistent."www.salon.com/2022/05/03/adoption-makes-abortion-unnecessary-claims-the-right-thats-even-worse-than-it-sounds/Sorry I didn't realize the piece was just a few posts up. It is hard, but worth reading the whole commentary.. Because I’m sure someone will come along and say, don’t blame the SC, the CDC made the statement - the CDC noting an objective numerical fact is a far cry from a justice using that fact to justify stripping American women of the right to control their own bodies and destinies as men can do. The fact that there are 400K adoptable kids in foster care right now makes this all the more disgusting. There is no “supply” problem. It’s truly about certain parents feeling entitled to healthy white infants. It has nothing to do with saving kids or helping kids.
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Post by onelasttime on May 8, 2022 20:34:05 GMT
Unfortunately it seems that quoted comment about supply is on the CDC statements somewhere.. *** Tucked into a footnote for that statement was a telling citation from a 2008 CDC report that found "nearly 1 million women were seeking to adopt children in 2002 (i.e., they were in demand for a child), whereas the domestic supply of infants relinquished at birth or within the first month of life and available to be adopted had become virtually nonexistent."www.salon.com/2022/05/03/adoption-makes-abortion-unnecessary-claims-the-right-thats-even-worse-than-it-sounds/Sorry I didn't realize the piece was just a few posts up. It is hard, but worth reading the whole commentary.. From my original post… “This term popped up on twitter this morning. On page 34 of the draft decision for overturning Roe v Wade in the addendum there is reference to a report from the early 2000’s that there were not enough babies to adopt.So it would seem the shortage of “adoptable” babies in this country is being included as part of the justification to overturn Roe v Wade.”There is nothing wrong with the CDC report from the early 2000s except it should not be taken into consideration when the Alito & his gang look for ways to justify overturning Roe v Wade, especially when they are only considering half the story. If I’m not mistaken the draft also talks about how all this help is available for new mothers. What they are doing is ignoring the fact there are 400,000 children currently in foster care. And this.. And this.. So they are cherry-picking to make their case. IMO. And IMO the term is offensive to women when used or taken into consideration to determine if Roe v Wade should be overturned. Or look at it another way, Alito & his gang are taking a simplistic approach to a complex issue.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 8, 2022 20:34:29 GMT
As I reread and reread, I realized I needed to put the CDC in there, because...you know... someone would come along and say I deliberately left it out. Merge
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Post by mellyw on May 9, 2022 1:20:08 GMT
They don’t care. An increase in the babies they want to adopt, and all those others are jus collateral damage. I hate everyone right now.I’m here right now. Even more than on January 7. That the Supreme Court is full of a bunch of fucking liars who blatantly lied so that they could criminalize having a uterus makes me want to subject those justices who lied re: their stance on Roe to a coat hanger up their private parts without antibiotics and we’ll just pray for the best when they are in infected and in pain. I described it to my DH last night as I feel like I’m sitting on a molten lava level of hate right now, that I’m desperately trying to keep under control. When the Politico alert hit my phone, all I could do was cry, just sit in disbelief, and cry. Then the rage came, and I don’t know what to do with it. Like Elaine, I thought Jan. 6th was the sucker punch from hell. Then this. Domestic supply of infants, makes my skin crawl.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 9, 2022 1:23:50 GMT
I have noticed all those pious christians haven't bothered to show up and spout their excuses... They live and believe liars with no remorse.
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Post by crazy4scraps on May 9, 2022 5:16:43 GMT
The available adoptable kids right now are often older, some of them have special needs and some of them likely have social/emotional issues relating to previous abuse and/or neglect. I’m sure what the potential adopters all want is a perfect little newborn baby without issues. How many adoptable kids end up in that situation in the first place because the social service networks and programs that are supposed to be advocating for them don’t or can’t, mostly because they are underfunded and overwhelmed? (And which political party is the one that doesn’t want to fund any of THOSE kinds of programs for THOSE people?) How many kids get bounced back and forth for years between birth parents, extended family members and foster families when the parents can’t seem to get their shit together, until the kids are of an age when no one wants to take them? The system is broken and is horrifically failing these kids who are already here, and a huge part of the fault lies with the GQP party that doesn’t want to fund any type of social programs that just might actually help someone.
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Post by tentoes on May 9, 2022 15:29:09 GMT
There are thousands of babies to adopt! They just don't want the ones available. They only want 'perfect' blonde haired, blue eyed babies. The rest will languish in foster care. The disabled will be 'put away'... So sad!! Of the three kids my son and ddil have adopted in the past 16 years, none of them have blonde hair or blue eyes.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 9, 2022 15:33:23 GMT
There are thousands of babies to adopt! They just don't want the ones available. They only want 'perfect' blonde haired, blue eyed babies. The rest will languish in foster care. The disabled will be 'put away'... So sad!! Of the three kids my son and ddil have adopted in the past 16 years, none of them have blonde hair or blue eyes. I agree.. should not have been so general... I was equating white v those of color and those who are disabled ..
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Post by Merge on May 9, 2022 16:43:52 GMT
The available adoptable kids right now are often older, some of them have special needs and some of them likely have social/emotional issues relating to previous abuse and/or neglect. I’m sure what the potential adopters all want is a perfect little newborn baby without issues. How many adoptable kids end up in that situation in the first place because the social service networks and programs that are supposed to be advocating for them don’t or can’t, mostly because they are underfunded and overwhelmed? (And which political party is the one that doesn’t want to fund any of THOSE kinds of programs for THOSE people?) How many kids get bounced back and forth for years between birth parents, extended family members and foster families when the parents can’t seem to get their shit together, until the kids are of an age when no one wants to take them? The system is broken and is horrifically failing these kids who are already here, and a huge part of the fault lies with the GQP party that doesn’t want to fund any type of social programs that just might actually help someone. Yes, but also - we need to stop pandering to the "save the babies" crowd when they're insisting that American women aren't producing enough adoptable infants for them. Maybe temporarily halt overseas adoptions, another link in the infant supply chain (gag). We clearly have a surplus of adoptable children here, so call their bluff. No infant adoptions for you until you have adopted at least one available from U.S. foster care. America first, right?
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Post by papersilly on May 9, 2022 16:48:34 GMT
i admit i have heard a lot of things in life but the "domestic supply of infants" is a shocking thought and excuse. i don't even have words.
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Post by epeanymous on May 9, 2022 20:05:11 GMT
The available adoptable kids right now are often older, some of them have special needs and some of them likely have social/emotional issues relating to previous abuse and/or neglect. I’m sure what the potential adopters all want is a perfect little newborn baby without issues. How many adoptable kids end up in that situation in the first place because the social service networks and programs that are supposed to be advocating for them don’t or can’t, mostly because they are underfunded and overwhelmed? (And which political party is the one that doesn’t want to fund any of THOSE kinds of programs for THOSE people?) How many kids get bounced back and forth for years between birth parents, extended family members and foster families when the parents can’t seem to get their shit together, until the kids are of an age when no one wants to take them? The system is broken and is horrifically failing these kids who are already here, and a huge part of the fault lies with the GQP party that doesn’t want to fund any type of social programs that just might actually help someone. Yes, but also - we need to stop pandering to the "save the babies" crowd when they're insisting that American women aren't producing enough adoptable infants for them. Maybe temporarily halt overseas adoptions, another link in the infant supply chain (gag). We clearly have a surplus of adoptable children here, so call their bluff. No infant adoptions for you until you have adopted at least one available from U.S. foster care. America first, right? A lot of the overseas channels for adoption have closed, which I imagine is part of what is fueling the issue; everyone wants a baby, and some people were willing to take babies from abroad (although there were a lot of issues in international adoptions ranging from complete lack of cultural literacy to placing babies who were not actually free for adoption), but even that is very difficult now. And of course, everyone who wants one is owed a baby, so women are just going to have to step up production, right? I have never been so glad to be past the age anyone wants me to be reproducing (although I seem still to be fertile, so I'm not beyond worrying about it).
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Post by elaine on May 9, 2022 22:25:18 GMT
Yes, but also - we need to stop pandering to the "save the babies" crowd when they're insisting that American women aren't producing enough adoptable infants for them. Maybe temporarily halt overseas adoptions, another link in the infant supply chain (gag). We clearly have a surplus of adoptable children here, so call their bluff. No infant adoptions for you until you have adopted at least one available from U.S. foster care. America first, right? A lot of the overseas channels for adoption have closed, which I imagine is part of what is fueling the issue; everyone wants a baby, and some people were willing to take babies from abroad (although there were a lot of issues in international adoptions ranging from complete lack of cultural literacy to placing babies who were not actually free for adoption), but even that is very difficult now. And of course, everyone who wants one is owed a baby, so women are just going to have to step up production, right? I have never been so glad to be past the age anyone wants me to be reproducing (although I seem still to be fertile, so I'm not beyond worrying about it). I know that you probably didn’t really mean this, but I want to highlight the very real, crucial, and VITAL fact that NOT EVERYONE WANTS A BABY. And that for many many girls and women, an unwanted pregnancy and baby could change the rest of their lives for the worse, and also damn the other children they might already have, and be responsible for, to lives of stress and maybe poverty. Forcing girls and women to carry unwanted babies to term, even if they put them up for adoption, will disrupt their ability to complete school, to maintain jobs, and to parent the children that they already have. I grow more enraged about this leaked ruling every day.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 9, 2022 22:53:42 GMT
elaine I do think she means everyone adopting wants a baby.
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Post by Merge on May 9, 2022 22:58:18 GMT
A lot of the overseas channels for adoption have closed, which I imagine is part of what is fueling the issue; everyone wants a baby, and some people were willing to take babies from abroad (although there were a lot of issues in international adoptions ranging from complete lack of cultural literacy to placing babies who were not actually free for adoption), but even that is very difficult now. And of course, everyone who wants one is owed a baby, so women are just going to have to step up production, right? I have never been so glad to be past the age anyone wants me to be reproducing (although I seem still to be fertile, so I'm not beyond worrying about it). I know that you probably didn’t really mean this, but I want to highlight the very real, crucial, and VITAL fact that NOT EVERYONE WANTS A BABY. And that for many many girls and women, an unwanted pregnancy and baby could change the rest of their lives for the worse, and also damn the other children they might already have, and be responsible for, to lives of stress and maybe poverty. Forcing girls and women to carry unwanted babies to term, even if they put them up for adoption, will disrupt their ability to complete school, to maintain jobs, and to parent the children that they already have. I grow more enraged about this leaked ruling every day. I think, in the context of the conversation, she was saying that virtually everyone who wants to adopt prefers to adopt an infant rather than an older child.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on May 9, 2022 23:02:14 GMT
Joy Reid is talking domestic supply right now!
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Post by epeanymous on May 9, 2022 23:32:35 GMT
A lot of the overseas channels for adoption have closed, which I imagine is part of what is fueling the issue; everyone wants a baby, and some people were willing to take babies from abroad (although there were a lot of issues in international adoptions ranging from complete lack of cultural literacy to placing babies who were not actually free for adoption), but even that is very difficult now. And of course, everyone who wants one is owed a baby, so women are just going to have to step up production, right? I have never been so glad to be past the age anyone wants me to be reproducing (although I seem still to be fertile, so I'm not beyond worrying about it). I know that you probably didn’t really mean this, but I want to highlight the very real, crucial, and VITAL fact that NOT EVERYONE WANTS A BABY. And that for many many girls and women, an unwanted pregnancy and baby could change the rest of their lives for the worse, and also damn the other children they might already have, and be responsible for, to lives of stress and maybe poverty. Forcing girls and women to carry unwanted babies to term, even if they put them up for adoption, will disrupt their ability to complete school, to maintain jobs, and to parent the children that they already have. I grow more enraged about this leaked ruling every day. I did not mean that everyone wants to have a baby, but that the people who build families through adoption generally want babies. I don’t think anyone who has read one post of mine on this thread or any other thread about this case is under the impression that I am anything but apoplectic about Dobbs.
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Post by hmp on May 9, 2022 23:32:52 GMT
As a former member of that “domestic supply of infants,” now happily adopted, I’m so angry I don’t even know how to describe the level of rage I feel. I’m not a commodity and I know my parents didn’t consider me a commodity. I was their daughter. They were my parents. They didn’t even try to give me back when I was a teenager. Definitely not a commodity.
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Post by onelasttime on May 10, 2022 0:33:03 GMT
A Supreme Court Justice who thinks a judge, who believed in witches and that women were the property of their husbands, is a great and an eminent legal authority makes a strong case for term limits on the Supreme Court.
From The Washington Post…
“Opinion On Roe, Alito cites a judge who treated women as witches and property”
By Jill Elaine Hasday Today at 5:00 p.m. EDT
Jill Elaine Hasday is a distinguished McKnight university professor and the centennial professor of law at the University of Minnesota Law School. She is the author of “Intimate Lies and the Law.”
“In his recently leaked draft majority opinion overturning Roe v. Wade, Supreme Court Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr. presents what he sees as his most convincing arguments for permitting legislatures to ban abortion. So what is the best Alito can do? One of his prominent strategies is to repeatedly quote and discuss someone he describes as a “great” and “eminent” legal authority, Sir Matthew Hale.
Most Americans have probably never heard of Hale, an English judge and lawyer who lived from 1609 to 1676. Hale was on the bench so long ago that his judgeship included presiding over a witchcraft trial where he sentenced two “witches” to death.
Nonetheless, we are still living in the world that Hale helped create. And as that witchcraft trial suggests, Hale’s influence has not been a “great” development if you believe women have equal humanity with men.
Hale is best known for his “History of the Pleas of the Crown,” a treatise published posthumously in 1736 that became wildly popular with judges and lawyers in England and America. In my years studying women’s legal history, I have read hundreds of American judicial opinions quoting Hale’s treatise. Hale was not writing for women, who were excluded from the legal profession and judiciary. But he had much to say about women. For example, his pronouncements on rape were bedrocks of American law for generations, and their influence persists.
Hale believed that authorities should distrust women who reported having been raped. In his mind, rape was “an accusation easily to be made and hard to be proved, and harder to be defended by the party accused, tho never so innocent.” Judges and lawyers endlessly quoted Hale’s canard well into the second half of the 20th century. Echoes of Hale’s suspicion of women still reverberate in American law and culture, helping rapists avoid punishment.
Hale also wrote what became the most frequently cited defense of the marital rape exemption, the doctrine that shielded a husband from prosecution if he raped his wife. Hale explained that a woman’s agreement to marry meant that she had placed her body under her husband’s permanent dominion. In Hale’s words: “The husband cannot be guilty of a rape committed by himself upon his lawful wife, for by their mutual matrimonial consent and contract the wife hath given up herself in this kind unto her husband, which she cannot retract.”
Courts and legislatures found Hale’s explanation compelling and repeated it for centuries. Until the 1970s, no state would prosecute a husband for raping his wife — no matter the brutality, no matter the evidence.
Why did powerful men find Hale’s rationale for protecting a husband’s sexual prerogatives so convincing? One reason is that Hale’s words fit smoothly into a legal system that gave husbands control over their wives in virtually every context. That regime remained entrenched for most of American history, and important aspects persisted even after sex-based disenfranchisement became unconstitutional in 1920.
It might be tempting to suppose that modern America has wholly repudiated marital rape exemptions. But at least 21 states still treat marital rape more leniently than rape outside of marriage by criminalizing a narrower range of conduct, establishing lesser penalties or creating special obstacles to prosecution.
With this in mind, let’s return to Alito. He discusses Hale so often because he is desperate to establish that the early American legal system was opposed to abortion. He thinks this characterization of the past gives overturning Roe a veneer of legitimacy.
There are at least two problems with Alito’s reliance on history. First, Alito has misrepresented the actual historical record. As abundant historical research establishes, the common law that governed America in its first decades and beyond did not regulate abortion before “quickening” — the moment when a pregnant woman first detects fetal movement, which can happen as late as 25 weeks into pregnancy.
Alito reports that Hale “described abortion of a quick child who died in the womb as a ‘great crime’ ” while glossing over the key part of that passage. Hale wrote that abortion was a crime “if a woman be quick or great with child.” Note the “if.”
Second, Alito relies on sources such as Hale without acknowledging their entanglement with legalized male supremacy. The men who cited Hale as they constructed the early American legal order refused to give women the right to vote or to otherwise enjoy full citizenship. Relying on that history of injustice as a reason to deny modern women control over their own lives is a terrible argument but apparently the best Alito can do.
Hale was a man who believed women could be witches, assumed women were liars and thought husbands owned their wives’ bodies. It is long past time to leave that misogyny behind.”
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Post by onelasttime on May 18, 2022 18:39:34 GMT
Apparently Alito & Company didn’t do enough research….
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