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Post by onelasttime on Mar 10, 2023 17:36:24 GMT
Third Way is a moderate Democratic Association. For sometime they have been talking about a group running a third party candidate for president. Third Way believes by doing this it will all but guarantee trump would win.
After pondering it a bit, they may have a point. Of the two political parties the Democrats are more likely to break ranks while, as we have seen, the Republicans will vote Republican no matter what.
No Label has been busy doing what needs to be done to get on the ballot in the states. So far they have been successful in AZ and CO. Third Way has pointed out the only states No Label has targeted are states President Biden has won.
Low and behold No Label is on twitter and this popped up providing an overview of who they are.
IMO a third party is nothing but a “spoiler” for one of the two existing political parties by taking votes away from one of the two candidates from the existing party and it’s going to be a cold day in hell before a candidate from a third party wins. Especially in this very divisive country.
I know there has been those wishing for a third party with wish list of qualifications. Isn’t it fiscally conservative social progressive or something like that? The only person I can think of that meets that criteria is Jerry Brown.
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 10, 2023 17:38:32 GMT
Here’s Third Way’s thinking about No Labels..
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 10, 2023 17:50:45 GMT
Here is Paul Waldman’s take about trump’s speech at CPAC. We are already seeing the Republicans in the House getting “retribution” now that they have the majority. Imagine 4 years of a vengeful president trump.
“Opinion The GOP primaries are all about ‘retribution’ against MAGA’s enemies”
By Paul Waldman Columnist
March 8, 2023 at 6:00 a.m. EST
Gift Article
“As Donald Trump rambled his way for over 100 minutes through a stream-of-consciousness speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference last weekend, there was at least one moment of clarity. “In 2016, I declared I am your voice,” the former president said. “Today, I add: I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, I am your retribution.”
“Retribution wasn’t an explicit catchword in Trump’s previous two campaigns, though the idea was implicit in much of the argument he made to voters. Now it might as well be the campaign’s explicit slogan: If you want revenge, vote for Trump.
The vow of “retribution,” which is now everywhere in right-wing politics, is another sign the Republican Party has put victimhood at the center of its identity, perhaps to a greater extent than ever before. To be on the right today is to believe yourself oppressed by impossibly powerful forces, including the government, the news media, the education system and a changing society that increasingly rejects your beliefs.
Every part of who you are — your race, gender, religion, ideas about the world — supposedly makes you a victim. Every “Happy Holidays” sign is an attack, every openly gay person an affront and every election you don’t win a theft of what is rightfully yours.
Enter the vow of “retribution.” This does not mean wrongs will be righted, that conditions will be improved or that if you’re hoping for concrete, material benefits from the next presidency, you’ll be satisfied. It’s not about you at all. Retribution is about the enemies who oppressed you. It’s about making them suffer, at least as much as you think you have suffered, if not more. It takes a strong person to be victimized (even if only in their own mind) and not want to make the ones they blame suffer. But is it enough to build a presidential campaign on?
Trump has always been a curator of people’s darkest impulses, their resentments, bigotries and rage. But focusing on retribution might be an admission that after a chaotic term in office and the emergence of smarter rivals with serious potential to win over the GOP base, he doesn’t have much else to offer.
That’s not to say it couldn’t be effective. While Trump always got the most attention for his most repugnant beliefs and utterances about immigrants, members of minority groups and women, he made an argument that powerfully resonated with large swaths of the country: You have been wronged by an economic and political establishment that didn’t care about you. Vote for me and we can do something about it.
Retribution was the mostly unspoken part of that argument. First, Trump would bring boundless prosperity to neglected small towns and rural areas. Next, he would “drain the swamp” of entrenched elites so the interests of ordinary people would prevail. And if the “establishment” that never did anything for you was appalled by him, that was proof he was your best choice.
Even if he didn’t bring boundless prosperity and even if draining the swamp turned out to mean installing grifters and cronies in the federal government, you might count his presidency a success, at least on a symbolic level, if revenge was what you were after. Trump was a giant middle finger thrust in the face of everyone you hate, and he continues to drive them to distraction. Isn’t that a kind of success?
Most of his voters thought so. Though he lost his bid for reelection, in many of the Trumpiest places he performed better in 2020 than he had in 2016. You could see it in rural counties such as Cimarron County, Okla., where he went from 89 percent of the vote in 2016 to 92 percent in 2020, or Garfield County, Mont., where he went from 91 percent to 94 percent. Some people were clearly happy to reaffirm the brand of retribution he offered.
But today other candidates have a clearer idea of the future they want to create — one where retribution takes concrete form. Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis won’t just mock snooty intellectuals on Twitter, he’ll also engineer the ideological takeover of one state university and impose a right-wing agenda on the others. If you’re mad about an LGBTQ-friendly company, he’ll take away its cherished tax status. Take that, libs.
Other candidates can say they hate the same people the base hates. But the trick might be convincing them that, if given the opportunity, they’ll make them pay.
That’s one thing Trump can plausibly claim. This time he might not be able to credibly promise So Much Winning You’ll Get Tired of Winning again. But a promise to make his and your enemies suffer is one he just might be able to keep.”
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,913
Aug 14, 2015 21:47:17 GMT
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Post by pilcas on Mar 10, 2023 18:02:15 GMT
In other countries where there are multiple parties, after elections are held, similar minded parties group together to form a coalition and the one with the biggest coalition pick the Prime minister/ president. Here it is the parties with the most votes and there is no provision to form coalitions so a third or fourth party just divides the vote with no good results.
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 17, 2023 14:31:06 GMT
This…
Could lead to this…
Would you be k with this?
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 17, 2023 14:32:36 GMT
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 17, 2023 14:35:08 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 17, 2023 16:56:06 GMT
Not good.. not good at all!!
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Post by peatlejuice on Mar 18, 2023 15:50:55 GMT
Aside from geography (I'm in a red state), I'm exactly the kind of voter No Labels is targeting (been a proponent of a viable third party for years, registered Independent).
There is a huge difference between "candidates Americans don't want" and "candidates Americans can't live with." I can think of one, maybe two, Democrats that I couldn't live with. The complete opposite is true for Republicans - there's maybe two that I could live with.
As much as I want a viable third party, and have voted third party in the past, at this point, it is far more important to have a candidate I can live with than a candidate I want. That means voting for the Democrat right now. It would require a remarkably narrow scenario or a magical fairy to break Republicans from their fascist dreams for me to vote for a No Labels candidate in a presidential election.
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Post by Merge on Mar 18, 2023 22:02:58 GMT
In other countries where there are multiple parties, after elections are held, similar minded parties group together to form a coalition and the one with the biggest coalition pick the Prime minister/ president. Here it is the parties with the most votes and there is no provision to form coalitions so a third or fourth party just divides the vote with no good results. I've come to think of our two parties as they used to be as pre-formed coalitions. The various wings of the Democratic party are still representative of this: moderates, progressives, and independents who caucus with Democrats all under the same tent. Unfortunately, the Republican party has decided to take a purity stance and will run off any members who don't align with the far-right Trump wing of the party, so it's no longer really a coalition.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 1, 2023 17:01:59 GMT
I know people don’t think this is a big deal but it kind of is. In this country a third party candidate is nothing but a spoiler for the candidate of one of the two political parties. Especially with the very antiquated electoral college.
I don’t know if this suit will be successful but let’s hope it is.
Because the political party candidate that will pay the price of a third party candidate in the general election for President will be the Democrats. And no a third party candidate in the general election for president will not win.
Why do I say that? From my lofty perch in Sonoma County I have noticed a big difference between those who identify as Republicans and those who identify as Democrats.
The Republicans toe the party line and 99.9% will vote for the Republican regardless who the candidate is as long as he/she has an “R” by their name. The Republican voter would vote for my long departed cat Fred if he an “R” next to his name. They proved that in the 2020 Presidential election when 74M people voted for trump, even after 4 years of chaos.
The Democrats on the other hand are all over the place when it comes to voting. It’s well known that the Bernie Bros were miffed their guy didn’t win so they either didn’t vote in the general election or voted for trump. Then you have the progressives vs the moderates when it should be Democrat period, not progressive Democrat or moderate Democrat, just Democrat.
And that is why this No Label gang will hand the presidential election to either trump or DeSantis. IMO.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Apr 1, 2023 18:56:17 GMT
As tempting as it is to vote for third party I have had to hold my nose and vote for lesser of two evils many times. I won’t risk the worst one in my opinion to win by voting third party.
I do know many though that will vote for whoever has an R next to their name as they could never vote for anyone with a D next to their name.
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Post by sideways on Apr 1, 2023 19:29:51 GMT
Maybe at a different time, but no time soon. Not when it’s a binary choice between batshit crazy fascism and normal. Too many votes would be siphoned off from normal and we’d be stuck with fascism.
I’m suspicious that this may be the goal any new “party”, regardless of what they claim.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 1, 2023 20:03:48 GMT
From the Declaration of Independence…
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the “
I have never understood that notion of “voting for the lesser of two evils “. You hear that a lot when folks talk about making choices. While your guy/gal may not have made it through the primaries, the one that did for the most part should share your ideology so how does that make them the lesser of two evils?
Anyway that is in the past. Today when we vote for people on the local, state or federal level we are either voting for America or against America. That is where we are at.
I posted the part from the Declaration of Independence that says all men are created equal. IMO the current Republican Party takes that to mean only white men are created equal, well not white men who happen to be gay or a transgender. They don’t believe women or people of color are created equal either. They no longer believe in the rule of law or states right. Or that every American that is eligible to vote should be allowed to vote.
So I think we have reached the part in our history where we decide to vote for America which means keeping the experiment alive started all those years ago and evolve to where all people are created and treated as equals. Or vote against America where the country will dissolve into chaos that eventually will destroy this country.
Those are our choices. IMO
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 1, 2023 20:04:38 GMT
They might not actually get They would not get TFG elected outright, but they would drive the decision to the republican(in today's world) House of Representatives, which would be one vote per state determined but the majority party of the state delegation.
Third party is a NO GO!!
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 1, 2023 20:13:35 GMT
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator...
Unfortunately, when it was written, all men was only those who owned property, including their slaves!
Interesting they wrote 'Creator'. Not their god!!
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 1, 2023 20:38:45 GMT
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peabay
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,598
Jun 25, 2014 19:50:41 GMT
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Post by peabay on Apr 1, 2023 22:16:42 GMT
On what planet is Joe Biden not a moderate Democrat?
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 3, 2023 17:17:28 GMT
Look at who is involved with No Labels..... Biden may not be everybody’s cup of tea, but he has worked productively with Republicans to sign a surprisingly broad array of bipartisan legislation," notes Chait. "His main partisan domestic initiative was essentially written by Joe Manchin, who is also involved with No Labels. It seems bizarre to create a group dedicated to promoting moderate, bipartisan legislation as a protest against a president who has actually accomplished those very goals."Chait concludes by warning that No Labels is creating a "political doomsday device" that could inflict incalculable damage on the United States. www.rawstory.com/trump-2024-2659721634/
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Post by femalebusiness on Apr 3, 2023 18:28:07 GMT
If they do this it will be the final nail in the coffin of democracy.
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 3, 2023 19:33:55 GMT
Aside from geography (I'm in a red state), I'm exactly the kind of voter No Labels is targeting (been a proponent of a viable third party for years, registered Independent). There is a huge difference between "candidates Americans don't want" and "candidates Americans can't live with." I can think of one, maybe two, Democrats that I couldn't live with. The complete opposite is true for Republicans - there's maybe two that I could live with. As much as I want a viable third party, and have voted third party in the past, at this point, it is far more important to have a candidate I can live with than a candidate I want. That means voting for the Democrat right now. It would require a remarkably narrow scenario or a magical fairy to break Republicans from their fascist dreams for me to vote for a No Labels candidate in a presidential election. Well said. No Labels will help Trump. No way. Not this election.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 7, 2023 10:44:28 GMT
So No Labels = no good !!! Rick Wilson gets the appeal of a third party in an age of hyper-partisanship. "If you hear ‘No Labels, Problem Solvers,’ it sounds great, doesn't it?” he said. But the former longtime Republican strategist, who in 2019 co-founded the Lincoln Project to fight the GOP’s growing autocratic impulses of the Donald Trump era, is issuing a dire warning about a group that’s promising to promote bipartisanship. Wilson in a fiery, expletive-laced video the Lincoln Project tweeted Thursday, alleged that No Labels is funded by Republicans who support Donald Trump, and that the party founded in 2010 is seeking to put Joe Manchin, the conservative Democratic senator from West Virginia, on the ballot in swing states to draw away votes from Joe Biden and return Trump to the presidency.,“They're not trying to accomplish centrism or independent voters or everybody singing (expletive) Kumbaya,” Wilson said. “They're a pro-Trump super PAC. They're raising $70-plus million from billionaire Republican hedge fund guys and billionaire Republican developers and billionaire Republicans Silicon Valley types so they can elect Donald Trump.” Wilson called out a common No Labels talking point that “we're only doing this as a contingency plan of fire. 'A break glass in case of fire' plan, if both candidates are morally unacceptable.” “What is that they're saying, you guys? Because they know Joe Biden is going to be the Democratic candidate. They're saying that Joe Biden is morally equivalent to a guy today who sat in a courtroom being indicted for 34 (expletive) felonies,” Wilson said. “They're saying that Joe Biden is equivalent to a guy who ordered his neo-Nazis and his stormtroopers and his terrorists and his fanatics, to storm the U.S. Capitol to overturn a free and fair democratic election. “That's what they're saying. Don't buy their (expletive). They need to be burned to the (expletive) ground politically. They are a threat to this republic. They are a pro-Trump super PAC.”www.rawstory.com/no-labels/
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 7, 2023 11:04:20 GMT
So No Labels = no good !!! Rick Wilson gets the appeal of a third party in an age of hyper-partisanship. "If you hear ‘No Labels, Problem Solvers,’ it sounds great, doesn't it?” he said. But the former longtime Republican strategist, who in 2019 co-founded the Lincoln Project to fight the GOP’s growing autocratic impulses of the Donald Trump era, is issuing a dire warning about a group that’s promising to promote bipartisanship. Wilson in a fiery, expletive-laced video the Lincoln Project tweeted Thursday, alleged that No Labels is funded by Republicans who support Donald Trump, and that the party founded in 2010 is seeking to put Joe Manchin, the conservative Democratic senator from West Virginia, on the ballot in swing states to draw away votes from Joe Biden and return Trump to the presidency.,“They're not trying to accomplish centrism or independent voters or everybody singing (expletive) Kumbaya,” Wilson said. “They're a pro-Trump super PAC. They're raising $70-plus million from billionaire Republican hedge fund guys and billionaire Republican developers and billionaire Republicans Silicon Valley types so they can elect Donald Trump.” Wilson called out a common No Labels talking point that “we're only doing this as a contingency plan of fire. 'A break glass in case of fire' plan, if both candidates are morally unacceptable.” “What is that they're saying, you guys? Because they know Joe Biden is going to be the Democratic candidate. They're saying that Joe Biden is morally equivalent to a guy today who sat in a courtroom being indicted for 34 (expletive) felonies,” Wilson said. “They're saying that Joe Biden is equivalent to a guy who ordered his neo-Nazis and his stormtroopers and his terrorists and his fanatics, to storm the U.S. Capitol to overturn a free and fair democratic election. “That's what they're saying. Don't buy their (expletive). They need to be burned to the (expletive) ground politically. They are a threat to this republic. They are a pro-Trump super PAC.”www.rawstory.com/no-labels/And Joe Lieberman is involved with it too.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 7, 2023 11:11:10 GMT
Whatever ‘they’ are saying their actions are not centerist. They are acting in a way to boost GOP candidates so label or no they are ACTING right wing:
*saying one thing while doing another* *targeting Democratic candidates *lack of a clear platform *saying a lot with no real meaning
Go back and investigate where the money is coming from if you want any semblance of the truth.
Sure, a third party would be great, but not with our current voting system, not with the electoral College. I’m partyless right now myself a party representing me would be awesome. But not if it brings us closer to facism. Not if we redo Trump or possibly worse Desatan in the White House. I’m wiser than I was when I was 19 and I’m not getting duped again with this bullshit. That’s not how our system works.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 7, 2023 11:26:16 GMT
But democrat establishment is mistaken if they think Joe Biden ought to be their candidate or is the best person for the job.
All those young people who keep lining up to vote are tired of mediocre old white men as much as they are tired of pompous lying old white men. It’s the sentiment I hear the most from my kids peers. Old white men have fucked up the world for long enough etc etc. That’s the fastest growing group of voters & it’s the most easily led astray by a pied piper. All they need is a shiny new younger candidate who speaks well, can handle social media and they’ll be a problem.
My response to any of them is to look where the money is coming from. If you don’t agree with the majority of the sources of the money then the candidate won’t be who you think they are. Not who you agree with.
Fascism edges closer & closer… The democrats are not playing to win if they run Biden again.
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Post by Merge on Apr 7, 2023 14:04:13 GMT
So No Labels = no good !!! Rick Wilson gets the appeal of a third party in an age of hyper-partisanship. "If you hear ‘No Labels, Problem Solvers,’ it sounds great, doesn't it?” he said. But the former longtime Republican strategist, who in 2019 co-founded the Lincoln Project to fight the GOP’s growing autocratic impulses of the Donald Trump era, is issuing a dire warning about a group that’s promising to promote bipartisanship. Wilson in a fiery, expletive-laced video the Lincoln Project tweeted Thursday, alleged that No Labels is funded by Republicans who support Donald Trump, and that the party founded in 2010 is seeking to put Joe Manchin, the conservative Democratic senator from West Virginia, on the ballot in swing states to draw away votes from Joe Biden and return Trump to the presidency.,“They're not trying to accomplish centrism or independent voters or everybody singing (expletive) Kumbaya,” Wilson said. “They're a pro-Trump super PAC. They're raising $70-plus million from billionaire Republican hedge fund guys and billionaire Republican developers and billionaire Republicans Silicon Valley types so they can elect Donald Trump.” Wilson called out a common No Labels talking point that “we're only doing this as a contingency plan of fire. 'A break glass in case of fire' plan, if both candidates are morally unacceptable.” “What is that they're saying, you guys? Because they know Joe Biden is going to be the Democratic candidate. They're saying that Joe Biden is morally equivalent to a guy today who sat in a courtroom being indicted for 34 (expletive) felonies,” Wilson said. “They're saying that Joe Biden is equivalent to a guy who ordered his neo-Nazis and his stormtroopers and his terrorists and his fanatics, to storm the U.S. Capitol to overturn a free and fair democratic election. “That's what they're saying. Don't buy their (expletive). They need to be burned to the (expletive) ground politically. They are a threat to this republic. They are a pro-Trump super PAC.”www.rawstory.com/no-labels/And Joe Lieberman is involved with it too. Joe Liebermann is still alive?!?
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 13, 2023 14:48:39 GMT
This Republican strategist is right.
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Post by onelasttime on Apr 14, 2023 15:27:36 GMT
Yesterday I saw a list of donors to this organization. They included trump mega donors and the guy Clarence Thomas is hanging out with.
I was looking for the names of these donors when I came across the name of the potential No Label’s “moderate” candidate.
I thought no…
But in this article
“Here’s Meyerson:
Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV), seeking to reclaim his hold on the nation’s attention now that he’s no longer the swing vote in the Senate, and facing probable defeat should he seek re-election to the Senate next year, is the likeliest recipient of No Labels’ You-Too-Can-Be-the-Presidential-Spoiler Prize. Other possible claimants (though if Manchin runs, they’d almost surely have to settle for the vice-presidential line) include Maryland’s former governor, Republican Larry Hogan, and the general flotsam that has floated around No Labels for years. (At one No Labels New Hampshire presidential primary forum I covered in 2019, speakers included Marianne Williamson and Tulsi Gabbard.)
Leading Democrats of the centrist persuasion, including Rep. Josh Gottheimer (D-NJ) and No Labels co-founder Bill Galston, are now scurrying away from the group as fast as they can, pointing out that characterizing a race likely pitting Joe Biden against Donald Trump as one in which no sober-minded centrist could make a choice—which is precisely No Labels’ line—is pernicious hooey. [...] For an organization that once included at least one serious political intellectual (Galston), No Labels has been willfully indifferent to the leading role that the Republican Party’s plunge into ethno-nationalism has played in the current political polarization. Galston’s Brookings colleague Tom Mann and his co-author, the American Enterprise Institute’s Norm Ornstein, documented the degree to which the Republicans’ move rightward has greatly eclipsed the Democrats’ move left, but that seems to have made no impression on the No Labels crowd. Neither has No Labels noticed that the elements of Bernie Sanders’s left-wing program that Biden has embraced—affordable child care, tax credits for families with children, free public-college tuition, higher taxes on the rich—are, by the evidence of every poll on the subject, among the most popular public policies with the American public.
Manchin told the Post: “If enough Americans believe there is an option and the option is a threat to the extreme left and extreme right, it will be the greatest contribution to democracy, I believe.” Asked if he would join a No Labels presidential ticket, he said, “I don’t rule myself in and I don’t rule myself out.” Typical Manchin murk.”
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 14, 2023 18:42:24 GMT
Somehow I missed that opinion piece. When Norm Ornstein speaks-or writes-I listen. ❤️ The man has been right about so many things. From the piece linked in your post: “ Fox News reports that No Labels is courting politicians like Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema, and Susan Collins as it seeks to build a so-called “unity ticket.” Soothing as the sound of “unity” may be to ears tired of the divisive screeching of our politics, third-party presidential bids have been, without exception, fools’ errands. This one may be worse.” Talk about a Trifecta of Terrible! 😖😖😖
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Post by hop2 on Apr 14, 2023 19:28:04 GMT
Whatever ‘they’ are saying their actions are not centerist. They are acting in a way to boost GOP candidates so label or no they are ACTING right wing: *saying one thing while doing another* *targeting Democratic candidates *lack of a clear platform *saying a lot with no real meaning Go back and investigate where the money is coming from if you want any semblance of the truth. Sure, a third party would be great, but not with our current voting system, not with the electoral College. I’m partyless right now myself a party representing me would be awesome. But not if it brings us closer to facism. Not if we redo Trump or possibly worse Desatan in the White House. I’m wiser than I was when I was 19 and I’m not getting duped again with this bullshit. That’s not how our system works. I’m going to quote myself here and reiterate even with someone running as a Democrat, follow the money. Take the example of Tricia Cottman in NC to heart ( which is a worse switch than Jeff Van Drew who ran as a Dem but a moderate and wasn’t as boldly lying) And I’ll caution my fellow NJ peas to watch out for state sen Sam Thompson who is running as a Dem after being a Republican state Senator for years 12th legislative district. Yeah boo boo his party abandoned him so to keep his seat he has to switch parties but can he be trusted to vote how you’d like to have him vote? He’s an 88 year old Trump delegate, but not sure a real democrat would get elected in the 12th legislative district anyway. 🤷♀️ who knows we just redistricted as well so all predictors are null. It’s a shit show out there for sure
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