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Post by mollycoddle on Mar 24, 2023 23:27:16 GMT
This is the America Republicans envision for us. Afraid of great works of art and anything that makes us think. Yeah, but a schlock painting of Trump as a warrior looking like he is wearing a diaper is good. ☺️☺️ file:///var/mobile/Library/SMS/Attachments/78/08/97B174FB-691B-4ED2-935D-850862EF3630/IMG_0757.jpg Which is art? You decide. 😁
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Post by Darcy Collins on Mar 24, 2023 23:33:20 GMT
I've also had the opportunity to see David, and no I don't find it pornographic. I will say though I was pretty horrified when I realized that all those statues at the Vatican had fig leaves not because of artist choice, but the campaign to eradicate nudity from art. Even David sported a fig leaf until 1912.
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
Posts: 4,306
Jun 26, 2014 19:30:06 GMT
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Post by scrappinghappy on Mar 25, 2023 0:39:14 GMT
I recently went to an art teacher continuing education day at several museums in Dallas (put on my SMU and Region 10). Several school districts in Texas have adopted a no nudes in art policy. Students cannot see or study any artwork with nudity. If students take a field trip to a museum, the teacher must provide a written plan to navigate the museum without viewing any nude artwork. The Nasher Sculpture Center was offering to turn Picasso sculptures around to face the wall on field trip days. The teachers were talking about how they can no longer teach David or the Venus de Milo or lots of other pieces that used to be in their curriculum. I find this shocking. I tried to corroborate it but couldn’t find anything online. myshelly can you help
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artbabe
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,026
Jun 26, 2014 1:59:10 GMT
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Post by artbabe on Mar 25, 2023 0:41:19 GMT
I don't feature nudes in my art history lessons but it isn't because my district tells me not to. It is just easier to not put a target on me. I do take the kids to the National Gallery of Art in DC and we definitely walk amongst the nudes. The "no nudes at art museums" thing is preposterous. I just think those districts are focusing way too much on genitalia and breasts. Imagine that taking up so much space in your head. Or the time you are making teachers use up, not in designing engaging lessons or showing the best art, but by making them come up with pathways around a penis. Gah! I teach 7th and 8th graders. I can't even have them make two balls of clay without the kids losing their minds. I also have to wipe at least 3 penises off of tables, chairs, cabinets, etc. every day. Almost always it is a boy that drew them and almost always they are drawn so badly it is like the kid never saw a penis before. I really want to assign grades to them. That being said, there are certainly books in my room that contain nudes. I don't have any problem with them being in the room, I'm just not going to put it up on the projector. I have a book on Michelangelo that has the complete ceiling and The Last Judgment on the wall in it. One time a kid was leafing through the book and he came up to my desk and asked what was wrong with their penises. I was confused for a second but then I realized what the problem was. He had never seen uncircumcised penises before. So I just told him that they were uncircumcised, he said "oh" and that was the end of the discussion. I can't imagine how much that would make some people in Florida and Texas gasp. I thought it was kind of funny- when I went to art education classes in college I never imagined I'd have to answer that question. David is quite beautiful but his penis isn't impressive. I read some article about why that is so, but I'm not sure how much I believe it. I want to assign Michelangelo a grade for that, too. Michelangelo's men are really beautiful but his women are atrocious (except for Mary). He basically took men and plopped some breasts on them, not understanding at all how breasts hang. He was such a great artist that I'm sure he knew what women's bodies looked like but just didn't care. It is pretty easy to see his sexual orientation in his art. And that is Ms. Artbabe's input about art and nudity. Very seldom do I see a thread title that deals with my profession. Or a thread where I had to write "penis" that many times.
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Post by myshelly on Mar 25, 2023 0:58:39 GMT
I recently went to an art teacher continuing education day at several museums in Dallas (put on my SMU and Region 10). Several school districts in Texas have adopted a no nudes in art policy. Students cannot see or study any artwork with nudity. If students take a field trip to a museum, the teacher must provide a written plan to navigate the museum without viewing any nude artwork. The Nasher Sculpture Center was offering to turn Picasso sculptures around to face the wall on field trip days. The teachers were talking about how they can no longer teach David or the Venus de Milo or lots of other pieces that used to be in their curriculum. I find this shocking. I tried to corroborate it but couldn’t find anything online. myshelly can you help I’m not really sure where inter district memos to teachers of one particular subject would be online 🤷🏻♀️ sorry.
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Post by Merge on Mar 25, 2023 1:34:19 GMT
I don't feature nudes in my art history lessons but it isn't because my district tells me not to. It is just easier to not put a target on me. I do take the kids to the National Gallery of Art in DC and we definitely walk amongst the nudes. The "no nudes at art museums" thing is preposterous. I just think those districts are focusing way too much on genitalia and breasts. Imagine that taking up so much space in your head. Or the time you are making teachers use up, not in designing engaging lessons or showing the best art, but by making them come up with pathways around a penis. Gah! I teach 7th and 8th graders. I can't even have them make two balls of clay without the kids losing their minds. I also have to wipe at least 3 penises off of tables, chairs, cabinets, etc. every day. Almost always it is a boy that drew them and almost always they are drawn so badly it is like the kid never saw a penis before. I really want to assign grades to them. That being said, there are certainly books in my room that contain nudes. I don't have any problem with them being in the room, I'm just not going to put it up on the projector. I have a book on Michelangelo that has the complete ceiling and The Last Judgment on the wall in it. One time a kid was leafing through the book and he came up to my desk and asked what was wrong with their penises. I was confused for a second but then I realized what the problem was. He had never seen uncircumcised penises before. So I just told him that they were uncircumcised, he said "oh" and that was the end of the discussion. I can't imagine how much that would make some people in Florida and Texas gasp. I thought it was kind of funny- when I went to art education classes in college I never imagined I'd have to answer that question. David is quite beautiful but his penis isn't impressive. I read some article about why that is so, but I'm not sure how much I believe it. I want to assign Michelangelo a grade for that, too. Michelangelo's men are really beautiful but his women are atrocious (except for Mary). He basically took men and plopped some breasts on them, not understanding at all how breasts hang. He was such a great artist that I'm sure he knew what women's bodies looked like but just didn't care. It is pretty easy to see his sexual orientation in his art. And that is Ms. Artbabe's input about art and nudity. Very seldom do I see a thread title that deals with my profession. Or a thread where I had to write "penis" that many times. I feel sure our art teacher wouldn’t show a nude in class, but our 4th graders had a field trip to the MFAH this week and I can’t imagine they avoided all the nudes on the trip through the museum. 😂 In middle school? I can’t say. We have a few middle schools with very highly regarded art programs, but middle schoolers are what they are and are going to draw penises on stuff.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
PeaJect #12
Posts: 5,374
Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Mar 25, 2023 2:18:39 GMT
Definitely not pornographic and not worth firing. Having spend lots of time around middle schoolers over the last 5 years, I don't know that I would be showing it to a class of 6th graders as a teacher, though. Too many whackadoos that would take issue with it, as evidenced by what happened. I'd have no problem with my own kids seeing it.
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Post by MissBianca on Mar 25, 2023 2:45:11 GMT
Oh they would have a meltdown with the Native American museum here, there’s topless women everywhere. And we even have senior prom there.
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scrappinwithoutpeas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,892
Location: Northern Virginia
Aug 7, 2014 22:09:44 GMT
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Post by scrappinwithoutpeas on Mar 25, 2023 3:10:54 GMT
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 25, 2023 4:18:07 GMT
It's not like the kids haven't seen naked humans.
Kids on farms, with animals, have seen far more in action, even on city streets. The 'Bible belt' has a higher teen birth rate at younger ages.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,931
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Mar 25, 2023 4:26:52 GMT
SMH! The things people get their panties in a wad about. I agree with other posters, most juveniles have seen human anatamy. I also believe here in our school districts, they have their sex education class in the 5th grade. Ponography is display of sexual parts in an disrespectrul way such as the one I saw posted on Facebook a couple of days ago. A huge penis about to enter a vagina. And Facebook monitors posts? !!!!
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carhoch
Pearl Clutcher
Be yourself everybody else is already taken
Posts: 2,990
Location: We’re RV’s so It change all the time .
Jun 28, 2014 21:46:39 GMT
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Post by carhoch on Mar 25, 2023 6:52:43 GMT
This is just ridiculous,nudity is not porn and in this case it’s art and if we elect this men to be our next president we are doomed !
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Post by gar on Mar 25, 2023 8:18:05 GMT
I mean...it's not a case of whether you 'find it' pornographic, it just isn't. It doesn't fit the definition. You, general you, might be uncomfortable looking at the naked form but that doesn't mean it's pornographic.
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Post by mollycoddle on Mar 25, 2023 8:25:26 GMT
Better? ☺️☺️
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 25, 2024 16:30:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2023 11:45:53 GMT
Who are the prudish idiots that think David is pornography?!
pornography noun por·nog·ra·phy pȯr-ˈnä-grə-fē 1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement 2 : material (such as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
What is it about David that is intended to cause sexual excitement? C'mon, you prudes. Defend your belief that a classical statue from 1507 is pornographic.
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Post by hop2 on Mar 25, 2023 13:37:17 GMT
1- I saw a full size replica of the David at the Met when I was in 7th or 8th grade, you could not have missed it, at the time it was right at the top of the main staircase from the lobby and it is 17 ft tall. It is huge. It was most certainly the talk of the long bus ride back to school after the museum. It overshadowed literally everything else seen that day because we were immature 11-12 year olds. I am not scarred by it nor have negative affects but it did in a way detract from the rest of the experience. It is not pornographic, it is biblical, which would be my objection to it if I had one. In the statue David is preparing for battle, it is not erotic. Are they saying/admitting that the Bible is pornographic? I mean there is a whole lot of sex & rape & violence in the Bible so I’m pretty sure I’d agree with them if that is their assertion. I am ok with children in grades before high school not seeing nude art works. I wasn’t about to get all angry & complain about it though, it just isn’t that important to me one way or another. IMO it DOES belong in an art history class in high school but, so does a ton of other non western art that we don’t often include. If I were teaching art history & had to remove things like that I’d just replace those parts in the curriculum with indigenous, eastern or African art. I think we need to see & include way more of that anyway. It is funny to me how the people who would like to shove their “Bible”( quotes because they have a different interpretation if the Bible and cherry pick out certain parts ) down my throat have the loudest objections to the David a depiction of a biblical story. An art museum is NOT a part of public school, it is an OPTIONAL field trip. Don’t want your kid to see it dont send them on the field trip. Easy peasy. There were field trips I did not send my child on. My choice is my choice, your choice is your choice. But you don’t get to tell me what my choice is. Fuck off.
2-I am familiar with this kind of battle with ‘those’ kinds of people. They won’t back down because they ‘feel’ they are righteous to try to impose their views on others. Those kind people had issues & felt it was thier prerogative to tell us their opinion. because *we* sent *our* 17 yo child to a summer art program that had a drawing class that did indeed feature live nude models among other models. Frankly, nudes or no nudes, it was some of the best money we ever spent since that program lead directly to several scholarships saving us tens of thousand of dollars - which that child can now spend on grad school. Other people can & should STFU about what EDUCATION we PAY to send our children to in addition to or outside of public school. You don’t see me clutching my pearls and condemning those Bible camps they send their kids to. “They” want to prevent me from educating my children OUTSIDE of public school as I see fit. Nope, fuck off. BECAUSE, if you get that right, then I get to tell you what you can’t educate your kids about outside of public school and I’m sure they dont want that.
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Post by sideways on Mar 25, 2023 13:42:29 GMT
I want to know who the two pearl-clutchers are that think penises are inherently pornographic.
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Post by freecharlie on Mar 25, 2023 14:03:30 GMT
Who the hell votes yes on this?
I cannot count the number of penises that have been drawn at my hs.
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Post by femalebusiness on Mar 25, 2023 14:31:32 GMT
I see there are now two pea perverts.
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Post by compeateropeator on Mar 25, 2023 15:57:48 GMT
I voted not pornographic. But I also do get that 5 and 6 graders may get all funny about seeing nudes and make a lot of comments…mostly because adults seem to make it an issue here in the US instead of just treating the body as what it is…a body where we all have basically the same parts.
But it is also not really a new thing here in the US, IMO. As a kid I remember all the National Geographic magazines with stories that feature bare breasts (or whatever body part) making the rounds.
I also remember there being a bunch of brouhaha over a Sears or Montgomery Wards catalog that came out where one of the pictures of the men modeling the boxers supposedly had tip of his penis hanging out the bottom of the boxers. Does anyone remember that? I would guess that was mid 70s maybe 75ish. 😆
Nudity (and actually sex) amongst my family was not an issue/off limits so I never really thought about it too much. Maybe it came from only having 1 bathroom for everyone. I saw the movie Porkey’s with my parents when I was in highschool. 😆. But I did know families that absolutely did not have the same thoughts on body parts.
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Post by Merge on Mar 25, 2023 18:14:50 GMT
I have to believe that people who think that statue is pornographic only have sex in the dark with their eyes closed, preferably through a hole in the sheet.
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joelise
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,649
Jul 1, 2014 6:33:14 GMT
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Post by joelise on Mar 25, 2023 18:19:04 GMT
A naked human is not the same as pornographic to me. A naked human is just a human with no clothes on! I don’t understand how anyone can say that is pornographic.
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Post by Gem Girl on Mar 25, 2023 20:27:22 GMT
I have to believe that people who think that statue is pornographic only have sex in the dark with their eyes closed, preferably through a hole in the sheet. And they refer to it as, "doing their marital duty."
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Mar 25, 2023 21:20:47 GMT
I have to believe that people who think that statue is pornographic only have sex in the dark with their eyes closed, preferably through a hole in the sheet. And they refer to it as, "doing their marital duty." The wife is forced to do her marital duty while the husband pleasures himself with up to or including force.
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Post by birukitty on Mar 25, 2023 21:58:02 GMT
Who are the prudish idiots that think David is pornography?! pornography noun por·nog·ra·phy pȯr-ˈnä-grə-fē 1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement 2 : material (such as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement What is it about David that is intended to cause sexual excitement? C'mon, you prudes. Defend your belief that a classical statue from 1507 is pornographic. This 100%. Art does not entice one to sexual excitement. Pornography does. That is its purpose. Of course the statue of David isn't pornographic-that's utter nonsense. I think the people who think it does probably haven't stepped foot in an art museum and certainly haven't seen it in person. We moved to the DC area when I was 8 years old. I am the oldest of 4 children. On the weekends my father would take us on trips to the Smithsonian Museums (we lived in MD. and later Va.) including the art museums. My parents never hid anything from us children-including any of the nude paintings. To us it was art-it IS art. We grew up with a healthy love of art and I thank my parents for what they did to encourage that. Maybe having a European mother helped with that, I don't know. I couldn't read the original article that was posted with this thread so I searched for another one. The one I read said that another person at this school thought it would be fine to show the David statue to kindergartners if they only showed the head!
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Post by AussieMeg on Mar 25, 2023 22:23:39 GMT
No, of course it's not pornographic. @knittingagain has already shared the definition of pornography which clearly refers to "erotic behaviour". Nowhere in the dictionary does it say "naked body."
I be very curious to hear the reason why the two people voted yes in this poll think a statue of a naked man is pornography.
As to my thoughts on this particular situation: I think that 6th graders are probably too young and immature to study David. Thinking back to my 6th grade class, and that of my kids..... it would have been chaos! All the giggling and carry on from a bunch of 11 and 12 year old kids seeing a penis!
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Post by Gem Girl on Mar 25, 2023 22:31:13 GMT
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Post by Gem Girl on Mar 25, 2023 22:36:45 GMT
These ludicrous prudes should probably never go to any Scandinavian countries.
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Post by birukitty on Mar 25, 2023 22:45:29 GMT
Oh my God, I had no idea this was the case in Maryland. I went to sign the petition and unfortunately you have to print it out and sign it and of course my printer is broken. I'll figure out a way to get it printed-maybe the next time I go to the library. This law must be changed and quickly.
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Post by myshelly on Mar 26, 2023 1:04:18 GMT
Hold on, this isn’t a completely accurate statement. It’s very much more specific and nuanced than your statement. Spousal rape is a crime in all 50 states.
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