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Post by katlady on Mar 25, 2023 23:48:12 GMT
I found this article today about age and driving accidents. It caught my attention because of the recent Dick Van Dyke accident. In California, all drivers 70+ have to retake the written test when renewing their license. The information below about accident stats based on age was in the article. Based on this, I think those under 30 should also be retaking the written test each time they renew their license. What do you think? Also, I don't think it is just age. Younger people are more agressive drivers, especially those that cut in and out while speeding. The California Highway Patrol reports that in 2019, drivers 70 and older made up 10.4% of all licensed California drivers. But they were involved in only 7.2% of fatal crashes and 5.5% of injury crashes.Two age groups stood out for being overrepresented in crashes.Drivers 20-24 made up 8.1% of licensed drivers in California but were involved in 11.9% of fatal crashes and 12.5% of injury crashes. And folks 25-29 made up 10% of all drivers but were involved in 13.4% of fatal crashes and 12.8% of injury crashes.
Dangerous Drivers
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Post by pjaye on Mar 26, 2023 0:21:36 GMT
drivers 70 and older made up 10.4% of all licensed California drivers. But they were involved in only 7.2% of fatal crashes and 5.5% of injury crashes. I think those statistics are probably misleading without a much deeper analysis...how often are they driving? how far do they drive? What time of day? Even if the over 70s make up 10% of the driving population...most of them probably aren't going to work everyday, or may not drive every day, or not drive very far. There's probably also a difference between the amount of driving they do at night as opposed to during the day. Many older people stick to their own neighborhoods/shops/friends houses where they know the roads well. My mother has a friend who is 95 and still drives (and even though she is mentally sound and still in good health, if I was one of her children...I would have stopped her by now) but, she never drives at night, or she drives to her daughter's house about 10mins away via the back streets and avoids main roads. She doesn't drive to the shops any longer, her children take her or they order her groceries to be delivered. So even though she'd be in the stats as a driver over 90...her actual driving is minimal and she only drives under fairly safe conditions, so the chances of her being in an accident are reasonably low. Compare that to a 38yo woman who works and maybe has a child and the amount of time she spends driving around on main streets, or at night etc, then she's much more likely to be involved in an accident because there's more opportunity for one to happen. I also think there's a huge difference between 70 and 90. I likely wouldn't think twice about getting in a car with a 70yo driver (unless they looked obviously unwell/unfit to drive), but definitely would a 90yo.
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Post by lisae on Mar 26, 2023 0:42:46 GMT
I don't see what good repeating the written test really does. One concern I have in our state is that they have gone to online renewals. It was every other time but that could still be up to 16 years before you had to see someone in person at the DMV to get your license renewed and have your vision checked. Now I think anyone can renew them online. So who verifies that you can actually see to drive?
I had a relative who let her license expire because of an extended hospital stay. At that time, she had to go to the DMV and they made her repeat the road test. She could not pass anymore. She hated it but had to give up driving. Her husband continued to drive for many years - a lot longer than he should have. I think he stopped at age 92. There is just no screening for poor driving but perhaps we should at least make people who have been at fault in an accident take a driving test before they get their next renewal.
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Post by epeanymous on Mar 26, 2023 0:45:05 GMT
The physical driving test is what would be helpful to retake. My MIL had her license years after anyone giving her a test would have yanked it (and got in several accidents).
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Post by compeateropeator on Mar 26, 2023 14:37:08 GMT
I basically agree with pjaye, on the meaning of the statistics and the actuality of how much and when older people are driving. But agree that over a certain age people need to either stop driving or take the test again and some how have reaction times checked. I also think that the actual driving portion of the test is more important than having them just retake the written.
My parents are 79 turning 80, and so far I have no qualms about their driving and would not even think about asking them not to, but in another 5 or 6 years (or if I see signs before) I would not be opposed to having to have them retake it or have reaction times tested. So my age of retesting would probably be 85. But as with everything there are exceptions and hopefully family members can determine if an older (but under 85) person needs to be evaluated and if they should be driving. Definitely not a black and white issue and not an easy issue to determine regulations for.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Mar 26, 2023 16:27:24 GMT
I think the road test is a much better gauge than the written test of a person’s abilities. Of course knowing the rules is important, but I think a person’s reaction time and the ability to see and hear what’s happening around them is much more important.
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Post by Darcy Collins on Mar 26, 2023 17:05:49 GMT
I think the road test is a much better gauge than the written test of a person’s abilities. Of course knowing the rules is important, but I think a person’s reaction time and the ability to see and hear what’s happening around them is much more important. I think retesting on the written portion is a waste of time. I doubt any of the accidents were due to people not knowing the rules - at whichever age assuming they've already passed the test. I don't think an elderly person suddenly thinks going 50 in a residential zone is ok. It's their reaction time and overall comfort behind the wheel. The only thing they have going for them is they're not also texting and driving which I'm sure is a hugely large portion of the accidents of younger drivers.
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RosieKat
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Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Mar 26, 2023 17:16:45 GMT
Texas requires you to go in person for a new photo and vision check at age 18 and then every 10 years. (I am fairly certain that's the number.) I have long thought you should have to do the written test then, too. Judging from how people drive around here, I don't think most people remember more than about 25% of the rules. I know that most of the time, those 25% cover what is needed, but for example, people flat out fail to yield to emergency vehicles and will almost rear end you when you pull over to do so. I really think that in an ideal world, you'd have to do at least a "lite" road test, too, but there's no way there will ever be enough people and time to do that.
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Post by lisacharlotte on Mar 26, 2023 18:12:40 GMT
We can only renew online once before having to go in and get an eye test and new picture. So once CV every 10 years. Once you hit 65, you cannot renew online.
I agree the written test means nothing. It’s the road test that is needed. I know why they don’t change it, because it would be a huge increase in budget to employ people to give the road test.
I have had to take the road test twice in Texas due to my license expiring. The first time after I left the military and forgot to renew before my old one expired. The second time after we lived overseas and I couldn’t renew before it expired.
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Post by Zee on Mar 26, 2023 19:15:34 GMT
Old people have shower reaction times and generally poorer vision (particularly at night) but also tend to drive slower and stick closer to home, so that lessens the risk somewhat.
Young people have better reactions and night vision but tend to drive faster and more often and are far more prone to driving under the influence.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Mar 26, 2023 22:45:30 GMT
Old people have shower reaction times and generally poorer vision (particularly at night) but also tend to drive slower and stick closer to home, so that lessens the risk somewhat. Young people have better reactions and night vision but tend to drive faster and more often and are far more prone to driving under the influence.That, plus they’re more likely to be messing around with their phones or other distractions. My DH drives a big work truck around all day so he’s up higher than most passenger vehicles and can see down into the vehicles next to him especially at traffic lights. He *constantly* sees people holding their phones talking or texting (even though only hands free phone use is allowed in my state), messing with the radio, looking in the back seat, eating, putting on makeup and once even saw someone with an open book across the steering wheel. That’s not even mentioning all the people who drive way too fast, cut him off or cut across multiple lanes of traffic without signaling, etc. People are nuts.
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Post by Zee on Mar 26, 2023 23:02:05 GMT
Old people have shower reaction times and generally poorer vision (particularly at night) but also tend to drive slower and stick closer to home, so that lessens the risk somewhat. Young people have better reactions and night vision but tend to drive faster and more often and are far more prone to driving under the influence.That, plus they’re more likely to be messing around with their phones or other distractions. My DH drives a big work truck around all day so he’s up higher than most passenger vehicles and can see down into the vehicles next to him especially at traffic lights. He *constantly* sees people holding their phones talking or texting (even though only hands free phone use is allowed in my state), messing with the radio, looking in the back seat, eating, putting on makeup and once even saw someone with an open book across the steering wheel. That’s not even mentioning all the people who drive way too fast, cut him off or cut across multiple lanes of traffic without signaling, etc. People are nuts. True! Though I see all ages of people on their phones while driving, lots of 30 and 40 something looking people. Men in business suits are the worst and come on, I know your Audi has Bluetooth.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Mar 26, 2023 23:09:06 GMT
That, plus they’re more likely to be messing around with their phones or other distractions. My DH drives a big work truck around all day so he’s up higher than most passenger vehicles and can see down into the vehicles next to him especially at traffic lights. He *constantly* sees people holding their phones talking or texting (even though only hands free phone use is allowed in my state), messing with the radio, looking in the back seat, eating, putting on makeup and once even saw someone with an open book across the steering wheel. That’s not even mentioning all the people who drive way too fast, cut him off or cut across multiple lanes of traffic without signaling, etc. People are nuts. True! Though I see all ages of people on their phones while driving, lots of 30 and 40 something looking people. Men in business suits are the worst and come on, I know your Audi has Bluetooth. That’s what I was talking about, “young” people as in under 50, LOL, since the OP was initially talking about seniors. And too funny about the Bluetooth. My car has it but something stopped working so now anything plugged into USB port gives an error message (even just a cord with nothing plugged in). Now I have to turn the Bluetooth *off* on my phone in order for the GPS navigation audio to play on my phone speakers until I can get my car in to have it looked at. It’s so annoying!
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Post by katlady on Mar 26, 2023 23:22:05 GMT
I agree that retaking the written test does not help much. Although it may make people remember things like pulling over for an emergency vehicle, stopping for a school bus, etc. Maybe everyone, regardless of age, should take the written test each time they renew their license. But, I don't know how to stop the more reckless driving you see from younger people.
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cynthia1218
Shy Member
Posts: 49
Feb 19, 2016 2:00:59 GMT
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Post by cynthia1218 on Mar 28, 2023 21:44:00 GMT
16 YEARS OLD ARE THE MOST DANGEROUS. Sorry I really dont know but am currently teaching my 16 year old daughter to drive. Worst thing ever. I never thought i was going to die so many times. And we are still not anywhere near driving test ready.
I am sure they both have their down falls in driving
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used2scrap
Drama Llama
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Jan 29, 2016 3:02:55 GMT
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Post by used2scrap on Mar 29, 2023 4:01:51 GMT
My 70+ mom and my late teen daughter both suck for different reasons. My daughter only drives with me once a month if that. My mother refuses to give a shit about her vision or reaction times and I don’t know how to get her off the road because she’s bad but not bad enough for legal intervention which seems insane.
Written tests certainly aren’t enough but how egregious does one have to be to not pass?
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hannahruth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,608
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Aug 29, 2014 18:57:20 GMT
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Post by hannahruth on Mar 29, 2023 9:06:30 GMT
My thoughts are that every age group has its problems.
the learner group / new licencees are very tentative but over cautious
the newbie licenced take on the world and think they are indestructible, speeding
people driving with distractions happening in the vehicle children in the backseat, telephone use, people eating/finishing makeup, everything other than concentrating on their driving fully.
then there are those who ‘just’ drive without incident
then there are any ages who are driving under the influence of drink and/or drugs, unlicensed, in unregistered vehicles which means no insurance, more people in vehicles than there are seats
older people who tend to drive slower than the speed limit causing frustrations to other road users.
no age is better or worse than another as each generation has their issues and a lot of people need to remember that a licence is a privilege and not their right.
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SweetieBsMom
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Jun 25, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Mar 29, 2023 12:45:03 GMT
The physical driving test is what would be helpful to retake. My MIL had her license years after anyone giving her a test would have yanked it (and got in several accidents). This. I fought with my Dad to get him to stop driving and it was exhausting. I had to take his car away, you can imagine, how that went over. I know he didn't want to give up his independence, I 100% get that, but nowadays there are so many other options to get around: Uber/Lyft, shuttle bus at his assisted living, the dial-a-ride in our town. Even when his eye doctor said he was legally blind, he had macular degeneration so not totally blind, (I was sitting right next to him) he said he was fine to drive.
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scrappinmama
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Mar 29, 2023 14:29:17 GMT
I think people should repeat the behind the wheel portion of their test once they reach a certain age. It's really hard on families when they have to step in and get the keys away from their parent. We had a major struggle with my mom over her driving. Her license expired because she had to do the written test and she failed at the first attempt. We kept telling her she needed to stop driving and she refused. I even went as far as to tell her she could get arrested for driving on an expired license. We were formulating a plan to hide her keys, but her battery died in the car and that was the end of that. Then the pandemic hit. She's almost 93, legally deaf and refuses to wear hearing aids and not all there mentally anymore, but she still talks about getting her car fixed.
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Post by hennybutton on Mar 29, 2023 14:42:58 GMT
Texas requires you to go in person for a new photo and vision check at age 18 and then every 10 years. (I am fairly certain that's the number.) I have long thought you should have to do the written test then, too. Judging from how people drive around here, I don't think most people remember more than about 25% of the rules. I know that most of the time, those 25% cover what is needed, but for example, people flat out fail to yield to emergency vehicles and will almost rear end you when you pull over to do so. I really think that in an ideal world, you'd have to do at least a "lite" road test, too, but there's no way there will ever be enough people and time to do that. I agree that the written test should be taken every decade or so. The laws change all the time. I've never had to re-take the written test and here are a a few things that have changed since I was 16: - You have to have your lights on if it's rainy enough to have your wipers on
- You have to give a bicyclist 3 feet of space when passing them
- When making a turn, you can turn into any lane that is safe
I don't even know how many laws have passed/changed in the 45+ years since I started driving.
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Post by Restless Spirit on Mar 29, 2023 15:29:06 GMT
In my state, at 75 you have to renew in person for your license and pass an eye test, then again every 3 yrs until 85 when in person renewal is every 2 yrs. I won’t pass the eye test at 75, so I’ll stop driving then.
Interestingly enough, here are the “at fault” drivers in the major accidents some of my family has been in:
1) I was totally stopped at a construction site when I was rear ended by a minivan and shoved into the car in front of me. My car was totaled. At fault Driver: Male in his 40’s 2) I was broadsided. Totaled my car. At fault Driver: Woman in her 40‘s 3) DH was backing out of parking space using backup camera. (My new car that replaced the totaled car). Car suddenly backed out of a space behind him. At Fault driver: Female in her 40’s 4) My sister was just driving along through an intersection when a car ran the light. At fault driver: A woman in her 30’s
So it seems like, in my experience, age doesn’t guarantee that someone will be a “good” driver!
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huskergal
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Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Mar 29, 2023 15:38:07 GMT
I am 100% for retaking a driving test periodically. It would be useful to do the written test as well because I truly believe some people have no idea what the laws are. For instance, if you are turning left or right and there are 2 turn lanes, you stay in your lane. You don't get to swing wide into the other lane. One of my biggest driving pet peeves.
I think younger drivers are more dangerous because they drive faster. The worst car wrecks around here tend to be drivers that are teens to early 20s. Often speeding. Often under the influence.
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RosieKat
Drama Llama
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Jun 25, 2014 19:28:04 GMT
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Post by RosieKat on Mar 29, 2023 16:32:50 GMT
For instance, if you are turning left or right and there are 2 turn lanes, you stay in your lane. You don't get to swing wide into the other lane. One of my biggest driving pet peeves. EDIT - I misread huskergal's original post. I am actually just referring to a single lane turn here, which is not what she was talking about. But I'm not removing my post because I still think it's bonkers that the laws are so inconsistent! ORIGINAL RESPONSE - That's only the law in some states. In many states, you are legally allowed to turn into any open lane. That's another part of driving that is wonky - what is legal in one state isn't in another. I get nervous when I have to drive in a different state because of this! (Also, as hennybutton pointed out, the laws have changed over time. When I learned to drive years ago, what you stated was correct. But it has since changed here, at least.)
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huskergal
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Jun 25, 2014 20:22:13 GMT
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Post by huskergal on Mar 29, 2023 17:04:00 GMT
For instance, if you are turning left or right and there are 2 turn lanes, you stay in your lane. You don't get to swing wide into the other lane. One of my biggest driving pet peeves. That's only the law in some states. In many states, you are legally allowed to turn into any open lane. That's another part of driving that is wonky - what is legal in one state isn't in another. I get nervous when I have to drive in a different state because of this! (Also, as hennybutton pointed out, the laws have changed over time. When I learned to drive years ago, what you stated was correct. But it has since changed here, at least.) How can it not be a law in every state? If you are side x side with cars turning the same direction, they can swing into your lane? I would think that would cause lots of accidents.
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Post by katlady on Mar 29, 2023 17:11:27 GMT
For instance, if you are turning left or right and there are 2 turn lanes, you stay in your lane. You don't get to swing wide into the other lane. One of my biggest driving pet peeves. That's only the law in some states. In many states, you are legally allowed to turn into any open lane. That's another part of driving that is wonky - what is legal in one state isn't in another. I get nervous when I have to drive in a different state because of this! (Also, as hennybutton pointed out, the laws have changed over time. When I learned to drive years ago, what you stated was correct. But it has since changed here, at least.) In California you have to turn into the lane closest to you, you can’t swing wide. But of course, that is rarely done or enforced. I have wondered why driving laws are not the same across all 50 states. I mentioned before that I didn’t know in Hawaii, the outside lane of two lanes turning right, cannot turn right on red, while in California you can.
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RosieKat
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Post by RosieKat on Mar 29, 2023 17:22:37 GMT
Driver's Ed site RE turnshuskergal , here's a basic though incomplete summary. This is just addressing single lanes turning, not multiple lanes, I would assume you are legally correct if multiple lanes are turning. You are definitely logically correct. I missed that in your original post you were referring to multiple lanes turning, so you and I were looking at it differently. I was misreading the "swing wide into the other lane" part. I do think the key thing is "if it is safe to do so." You can turn right on red (at least here in TX) IF IT IS SAFE TO DO SO and not contraindicated by any signage. So I can turn left into the far right lane, but only if it is safe to do so. In other words, I read it as if it isn't your given driving right, it is something you are allowed to do under certain conditions. (I mean, I guess everything is "if it is safe to do so," but if I have a green light and go through the intersection and get t-boned and it's as straighforward as that, the law would be on my side. If I turn left into the far lane and hit someone turning right into that lane, I'm guessing I would be on the hook.)
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Post by hennybutton on Mar 30, 2023 4:06:20 GMT
In California you have to turn into the lane closest to you, you can’t swing wide. Actually that's no longer true, unless they've changed the law back. I picked up a copy of the driver's manual when my son was learning to drive 10 years ago and learned that you can turn into any lane that's clear. I was shocked, shocked I tell you. When I was learning to drive, I learned that you had to turn into the closest lane. See, this is why we should re-take the written test every 10 years. At the very least, they should send us a new driver's manual when we renew our licenses.
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