craftymom101
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,798 
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Post by craftymom101 on Aug 25, 2023 13:45:26 GMT
sleepingbooty it is bizarre to me that her parents chose to buy her a house in West Richland, WA. It's on the east side of the state, over the mountains, and not in a particularly nice part of Washington. I hope I don't offend anyone who lives in that area, but I always thought the tri-cities (Richland, Kennewick, and Pasco) were places to avoid if moving to Washington. It is weird to me that her parents found a million-dollar home to buy there. I believe Washington does not have a death penalty. Could the state refuse to extradite her to Florida, a death penalty state?
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Post by sleepingbooty on Aug 25, 2023 15:02:04 GMT
That's odd, indeed, craftymom101. Would they have chosen a home that's worth so much money in this rather meh part of the state because of the amount of land? Something very private and hidden to keep their daughter from the prying eyes of the press and true crime sleuthers? It'll be interesting to see how all of this unfolds. I'm sorry the twins will likely grow up without their half-siblings. It looks like the Gardner clan is intent on ignoring Jared's family and his widow's wishes. SU's sales numbers were a surprise to me (I had no clue the company was this big). To make such poor public statements is unacceptable. They have the means to afford a good crisis team and owe it to their employees and many demonstrators. |
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Post by scrapaddict702 on Aug 25, 2023 16:46:50 GMT
sleepingbooty it is bizarre to me that her parents chose to buy her a house in West Richland, WA. It's on the east side of the state, over the mountains, and not in a particularly nice part of Washington. I hope I don't offend anyone who lives in that area, but I always thought the tri-cities (Richland, Kennewick, and Pasco) were places to avoid if moving to Washington. It is weird to me that her parents found a million-dollar home to buy there. I believe Washington does not have a death penalty. Could the state refuse to extradite her to Florida, a death penalty state? My Mom lives near tri-cities...it has bad parts like everywhere else, but I don't understand why you'd assume it doesn't have nice areas. Either way, it is nowhere near a major airport (2hr+ drive to SeaTac and only a small airport there because my mom has to fly from there to SeaTac then to us, especially in the winter when it isn't safe to take the pass). I wonder if it could be as simple as being harder to transport or get to her away from a major metro. It could also be political, but idk. Seattle/western WA is where the liberals are, most of the rest of the state is Republican or Republican leaning. Eta...it could also be cost of living. My childhood home (in Bothell) last sold for over a million in western WA and it was by no means a mcmansion...it is comparable to my current home in size at around 2200sf. These kinds of people likely believe that their home is a status symbol and a million dollars still goes farther in smaller communities than huge cities. |
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Post by refugeepea on Aug 25, 2023 17:51:32 GMT
It could also be political, but idk. Seattle/western WA is where the liberals are, most of the rest of the state is Republican or Republican leaning. From what I've read, Shanna is definitely inactive in the LDS church. Apparently she had an affair with a personal trainer and it ended the marriage. She says no, the personal trainer says yes. Her ex-husband remained active. Her parents likely remain active in the LDS church. I would not be surprised at all if they bought that land in Washington through church connections. The law firm that released the statement on behalf of the Gardner family is Kirton McKonkie. The same law firm that covered up child and infant rape in Arizona for seven years. They handle all of the sex abuse cases for the church. The LDS church has numerous land holdings. They are either number one or number two in the state of Florida for owning the most land. I don't think it's any great Mormon conspiracy, but the Gardners know rich, prominent LDS members who helped them out. |
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Post by marg on Aug 25, 2023 20:32:38 GMT
From what I understand they bought the Washington house through a corporation or trust (not SU). Apparently Florida has recently passed a grandparents rights law whereby the parents of the murdering spouse can't get custody of the grandchildren - but I think the grandparents have to be implicated in the crime. It's based on the Dan Markel case, which I still have to read up on. It would make sense that that is the motivation for moving to Washington - the Gardners wanted to get those kids away from Florida, just in case. The other posters were right, the male twin (Liam) does have a heart condition which means he has to be at sea level. So it looks like Shelli will be living in Washington for quite a while. I don't think Liam's life expectancy is very long, which makes it even sadder that the Bridegans can't see the twins.
I think a major issue will be that Shanna, as the sole surviving parent of the twins, was legally allowed to give custody to her parents. It's really her decision at the end of the day. Jared's parents will be in for a hell of a legal battle. Here is a comment from reddit regarding the custody situation:
"Ok, let me clear up some confusion because I know the Bridegan Family……Jared’s parents currently live in Germany a good majority of the time. Jared’s mom is a marriage and family counselor as a contractor for the military. Jared’s parents are very private and do not want any attention on themselves, they want all the attention on Jared and their son Adam is the family spokesperson. Jared’s parents are heartbroken and have stayed involved on updates with the case all along.
After Jared’s murder, Jared’s dad got cancer and has been battling that. Kirsten took charge putting up flyers and doing all press.
Kirsten is loved by all family members.
As far as custody of the children, as of right now Shelli Gardner has custody of the kids. They will know more once a judge looks at this."
It looks like Shanna is fighting extradition and her next hearing is in September. I don't know what the outcome usually is with death penalty cases in terms of the residing state blocking the transfer. It will be interesting to follow this to its conclusion. From what I'm reading this looks like a slam dunk for the prosecution.
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Post by marg on Aug 25, 2023 20:43:31 GMT
So marg , I was reading some of the comments in that arrest video and some were speculating that the reason the parents moved her to WA is because there is no death penalty there, and that WA might not extradite her. I'm sure the parents got some sort of legal counsel for that. Also in the article itself it says that the parents applied for conservatorship of the kids in May knowing the arrest was imminent. I guess that last part is speculative. But on the other hand maybe the parents did know the truth back then. And why was Shelli in WA? Doesn't she live in UT? Coincidence? Shelli was in Washington because she's been living with Shanna since they bought the house for her last year. I think the parents must have suspected but wanted to live in denial. I'm sure they never asked Shanna directly and she never admitted it. Just "lalala", ears plugged. I also think that the Gardners immediately retained lawyers and got the best legal advice money could buy, all of it coached in terms like "if Florida does decide to indict Shanna", without ever admitting Shanna did it - just that the state may choose to go after her. So, of course the Gardners would get every duck in a row that they possibly could, they have more than enough financial resources to do whatever they need to do to set this up the way they wanted. In Shanna's indictment it says that she was planning this since 2015. I'm not a psychologist (although my SIL is head of a major psychological organization, so I'll pretend her knowledge has rubbed off on me, lol), but I really suspect Machiavellian, narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies in Shanna - the so-called Dark Triad. These all equal a callous-manipulative personality style. I've love to know if her parents even realize how manipulative she is. It's hard to see your child as being truly malevolent like this. I think they have to realize she did it, though, because the facts just point to it. What cognitive dissonance they must be suffering from otherwise. |
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,240
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Aug 26, 2023 11:18:28 GMT
I personally just hate the reminder of how entwined the paper-crafting industry is with LDS. Or, I hate that the paper crafting industry is entwined thusly and then when I am reminded of it, I have to start wondering how much of this I'm OK with supporting.
How can I (mostly) boycott HL but not SU? How much money spent is reasonably justified by the fact that my crafting life would be less rich and meaningful without the get-togethers at the local demo's house? What about C&9th -- no scandals there, but another LDS-run, Utah-based paper crafting company....
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Post by refugeepea on Aug 26, 2023 21:51:56 GMT
I personally just hate the reminder of how entwined the paper-crafting industry is with LDS. Or, I hate that the paper crafting industry is entwined thusly and then when I am reminded of it, I have to start wondering how much of this I'm OK with supporting. How can I (mostly) boycott HL but not SU? How much money spent is reasonably justified by the fact that my crafting life would be less rich and meaningful without the get-togethers at the local demo's house? What about C&9th -- no scandals there, but another LDS-run, Utah-based paper crafting company.... Echo Park, Simple Stories, American Crafts, Stampin' Up; I think they all have some kind of LDS connection. I have very conflicted feelings about the whole thing because I'm a former member.
My issue is with the top leadership. Indoctrination; it's a thing. I have zero issues with a vast majority of the members. I know many VERY good, ethical people. I am the only sibling in my family who is out (quietly, I didn't make an announcement). Hell, I have a cousin who was released from prison and he came to our family reunion. He wasn't shunned. My grandparents went to another church the last 30 years of their lives. I don't know. It's nuanced. Assholes and amazing people.
My life is boring. Scrapbooking or playing with paper is my distraction. I cannot emphasize how little my life is right now. Maybe it's justification, but it's the one area in my life where I don't want to think hard about hard things. Who owns the company, where its manufactured, who should I support? I realize that sounds selfish, but that's where I am. I know I should be better.
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,240
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Aug 26, 2023 22:13:46 GMT
Creative Memories, too. Yes, it's the indoctrination and the corruption among the leadership. If all Catholics tithed and I knew supporting a Catholic-owned business was supporting the leadership who played shell games with diddling priests, I had have an issue with that, too.
But your point is very much like my feeling about my local SU demo.
On a more frivolous note, as a former member, can you confirm that the rumors that the LDS wants everyone scrapbooking is so that they can buy the books at thrift store and posthumously baptize us all are false?
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Post by QueSeraSera on Aug 26, 2023 23:32:05 GMT
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Post by dewryce on Aug 27, 2023 0:12:16 GMT
refugeepea I think it’s great you know where you’re at and what you can mentally take on right now, it’s an important part of self care and there should be zero guilt involved in that. I was the same way with politics for a long time; felt I had to do all.the.research on all.the.things in order to basically earn the right to vote (in my mind) and I was not in a place where I could do that so I didn’t. Now I’m upset with myself for allowing my perfectionist tendencies to get in the way of my voting, but not for doing what I needed to protect my mental health. You don’t need to justify that to anyone. I’ve been where you are and I’m glad you have something to bring you joy! I’m with you in that I think it is nuanced, there are lots of really good people involved. I didn’t realize there was a connection between those companies and the religion. What I will look up for my own knowledge is if the actual church is involved, or just regular members. To me, most members were born into this, and while I may disagree strongly with the church and its leadership, I don’t know how it will impact my purchasing decisions yet. I guess it depends on the connections. I’m an atheist but that doesn’t stop me from purchasing items from people of any other religion simply because part of their income with go to a church/temple. For me, my decision about SU would be based on Shelli’s personal knowledge and involvement. But you’ve given me something to think about.
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,240
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Aug 27, 2023 0:38:46 GMT
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Post by marg on Aug 27, 2023 1:04:38 GMT
For me, it doesn't matter what faith the owners of a company are. Every organization, religion, company has good people and assholes. I'll continue to buy what speaks to me, and at the end of the day I just don't have the mental capacity to worry about it. The only issue that bothers me is buying stolen designs and artwork - I won't support that. But I'm not prepared to research the leadership and top execs of every business and corporation I shop at. I don't know any Mormons and don't know much about the religion (other than what I've seen on Big Love lol) but I doubt that Shanna Gardner is representative of the Mormon community - and whatever Shelli Gardner does, while I might not agree with it, I also haven't been in her shoes. I can't imagine ever believing that my son would have someone murdered. I think I'd have to sit in court and listen to every single piece of evidence and even then I would have a hard time believing it. I know Shanna lied her ass off to her parents because in one news article I read there was a quote from Shelli saying that Jared cheated on Shanna and that's why the marriage ended, but that Jared was telling everyone that Shanna cheated. So clearly Shanna lied about that to her family (Mario confirmed that Shanna is the one that cheated on Jared), and Shelli just believed it all. I am just so conflicted about it all because I also think I couldn't have done a lot of what Shelli did after the fact, like the blog posts with the happy families photos taken right after the murder - that was in such poor taste and just such a bad decision all around. At the same time, knowing that Florida is a death penalty state - well, maybe I'd help my son flee the country if I thought he was going to be accused of murder, I just don't know.
Everyone has to do what they're comfortable with, of course, this is just some of what's going through my mind these days (back and forth, back and forth, lol).
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,240
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Aug 27, 2023 1:26:24 GMT
(back and forth, back and forth, lol) Indeed. Me, too. |
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Post by dewryce on Aug 27, 2023 3:03:55 GMT
For me, it doesn't matter what faith the owners of a company are. Every organization, religion, company has good people and assholes. Everyone has to do what they're comfortable with, of course, this is just some of what's going through my mind these days (back and forth, back and forth, lol). Exactly this. For me, it’s their actions that matter. Especially since you can follow a religion but not hold to every belief. |
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Post by refugeepea on Aug 27, 2023 4:21:17 GMT
Creative Memories, too. Yes, it's the indoctrination and the corruption among the leadership. If all Catholics tithed and I knew supporting a Catholic-owned business was supporting the leadership who played shell games with diddling priests, I had have an issue with that, too. But your point is very much like my feeling about my local SU demo. On a more frivolous note, as a former member, can you confirm that the rumors that the LDS wants everyone scrapbooking is so that they can buy the books at thrift store and posthumously baptize us all are false? Oh, that's a fun one! The answer is no. Before scrapbooking was a thing, family history was highly stressed in the LDS church. I think it was Creative Memories that made scrapbooking mainstream (not Mormons) Then members of the LDS church saw an opportunity and knew they had a market. Not the actual LDS church. |
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Post by refugeepea on Aug 27, 2023 4:30:55 GMT
refugeepea I think it’s great you know where you’re at and what you can mentally take on right now, it’s an important part of self care and there should be zero guilt involved in that. I was the same way with politics for a long time; felt I had to do all.the.research on all.the.things in order to basically earn the right to vote (in my mind) and I was not in a place where I could do that so I didn’t. Now I’m upset with myself for allowing my perfectionist tendencies to get in the way of my voting, but not for doing what I needed to protect my mental health. You don’t need to justify that to anyone. I’ve been where you are and I’m glad you have something to bring you joy! I’m with you in that I think it is nuanced, there are lots of really good people involved. I didn’t realize there was a connection between those companies and the religion. What I will look up for my own knowledge is if the actual church is involved, or just regular members. To me, most members were born into this, and while I may disagree strongly with the church and its leadership, I don’t know how it will impact my purchasing decisions yet. I guess it depends on the connections. I’m an atheist but that doesn’t stop me from purchasing items from people of any other religion simply because part of their income with go to a church/temple. For me, my decision about SU would be based on Shelli’s personal knowledge and involvement. But you’ve given me something to think about. Besides, being members, I doubt there's a financial connection directly to the church. There's a good possibility they are related to some top senior authorities. Even then, it still might not matter. The Mormons moved mostly to Utah in the 1800's and were isolated for generations. Hell, I'm related to Mitt Romney through some polygamous ancestor and a former long dead prophet. I have zero clout.😆 |
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Shakti
Pearl Clutcher
Troubled, complicated, and constant
Posts: 3,240
Oct 30, 2022 23:42:30 GMT
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Post by Shakti on Aug 27, 2023 12:35:01 GMT
I think it was Creative Memories that made scrapbooking mainstream (not Mormons) Thank you for this correction; I don't know why I thought they were another Utah-based/LDS-owned company, but I see now that they are not. And thank you for your ex-member perspective. Actually, this whole recent conversation in this thread has been really helpful and thought-provoking. Thanks, all. |
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Post by sleepingbooty on Aug 27, 2023 14:18:02 GMT
I watched Shanna's arrest video to see the infamous $1 million home. It's not some secluded place with a lot of land. At all. It's a regular upscale neighbourhood with houses pretty close together in a cul-de-sac. The houses on the Gardner's side of the the street have some amazing views from the little I could see (start of the video, upon arrival of the police). I didn't see anything resembling the entrance/exit of a gated community when the police left with Shanna in custody either. The setup is your typical US suburban home without walls/fences all around the property. So, this wasn't a purchase made to keep her away from press/sleuthing eyes as far as I can tell. ETA: They're in proper mountainy land. I don't see how this is compatible with Liam's heart condition in the long run (although I understand he is living on borrowed time). |
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Post by marg on Aug 29, 2023 2:06:40 GMT
ETA: They're in proper mountainy land. I don't see how this is compatible with Liam's heart condition in the long run (although I understand he is living on borrowed time). I read that Florida (and the East Coast in general) is the best place for this heart condition, and then Washington State is the second best. On one of the YouTube videos, I think (or it might have been Websleuths) they said the elevation where Shanna lived was about 400 feet which was acceptable. |
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Post by sarahsprettypapers on Sept 14, 2023 18:01:17 GMT
Shanna had her court appearance in Washington today to fight extradition. Governor DeSantis issued a governor's warrant for her to return to Florida. Washington must comply with this order and send her back, from what I understand. Her next court appearance is in early October. Update |
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Post by marg on Sept 14, 2023 21:57:12 GMT
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Post by don on Sept 14, 2023 23:35:12 GMT
I'm going to wait for the movie.
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Post by cheezitgirl on Sept 14, 2023 23:54:26 GMT
I'm going to wait for the movie. You might not have to wait long. There is already a movie coming out about recently convicted Alex Murdaugh staring Bill Pullman. The Lifetime channel can crank them out quickly. Lol |
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Post by jill8909 on Sept 15, 2023 11:32:24 GMT
sleepingbooty it is bizarre to me that her parents chose to buy her a house in West Richland, WA. It's on the east side of the state, over the mountains, and not in a particularly nice part of Washington. I hope I don't offend anyone who lives in that area, but I always thought the tri-cities (Richland, Kennewick, and Pasco) were places to avoid if moving to Washington. It is weird to me that her parents found a million-dollar home to buy there. I believe Washington does not have a death penalty. Could the state refuse to extradite her to Florida, a death penalty state? No, Washington State cannot refuse to extradite for that reason. Both Florida and Washington state adopted the same uniform extradition laws. Washington can only refuse under pretty rare circumstances - the request from Florida has some flaw, Shanna claims she isn't the person named in the indictment, etc. |
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FurryP
Drama Llama
To pea or not to pea...
Posts: 7,276
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Jun 26, 2014 19:58:26 GMT
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Post by FurryP on Sept 16, 2023 2:26:25 GMT
I'm going to wait for the movie. I'm good with watching the trial on tv (while I work). |
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Post by don on Sept 16, 2023 3:28:49 GMT
I'm going to wait for the movie. I'm good with watching the trial on tv (while I work). Too many annoying commercials. |
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Post by cme37 on Nov 3, 2023 12:56:33 GMT
This is local to me, so here is the latest update. She was extradited to Florida. And she hired the attorney who defended Casey Anthony.
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Post by Margie on Nov 5, 2023 6:28:35 GMT
Interesting perspective on the Gardners from Forensic Psychologist Dr. John Matthias.
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Post by marg on Nov 5, 2023 13:57:09 GMT
This is local to me, so here is the latest update. She was extradited to Florida. And she hired the attorney who defended Casey Anthony. I watched her arraignment the other day. The prosecutor said they have 7 terabytes of discovery and 100 witnesses. Jose Baez looked a little grim at that news. |
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