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Post by refugeepea on Apr 14, 2023 1:05:19 GMT
Arizona Supreme Court Finds the Mormon Church Can Conceal Crimes Against Children Because of Clergy Privilege
I cried a lot today. Cried that I stayed in so long. Cried for all the victims. Cried for a friend that is now leaving the church. Not because it's a bad thing, but they are losing an amazing person. An amazing person that is going to get treated like complete and utter shit because they left. An amazing person who was raised by parents who held her to a higher standard than church leadership places on themselves. It's a bigger sin to "know" the truth and leave. Straight to outer darkness. Not EVERYONE will be assholes, but I know of a few that will be terrible.
The former state legislator/lawyer employed by the Mormon church who covered up child and infant rape for seven years remains a member in good standing. He'll go straight to the highest level in the Celestial Kingdom.
Tell me again it's the fucking drag queens who get away with being predators.
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Gennifer
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 14, 2023 1:12:44 GMT
Sickening.
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Post by Merge on Apr 14, 2023 1:13:47 GMT
I will never understand the impulse in our society to turn a blind eye to the evil that churches have done and continue to do. I’m sorry this is all dredging hard stuff up for you right now.
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Gennifer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,991
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 14, 2023 1:22:37 GMT
For those who may not know, the LDS church has a lay ministry, meaning that all of the low-level leadership is completely volunteer-based and unpaid. These authority figures are men who work their day jobs in whatever field and then donate another 20-25 hours per week leading the local congregations, usually in 5-year blocks. They have no specialized training, and the general belief is that they are given spiritual discernment from God to be able to fulfill these duties.
They also receive a handbook that lists out church policies and procedures to help guide them. In this handbook, it says that if someone confesses to sexual abuse or sexual assault, they are to call a “help hotline”… which goes to Kirton & McConkie, a church-owned law firm in SLC.
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Just T
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,544
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Post by Just T on Apr 14, 2023 1:27:34 GMT
Great googly moogly. What the every loving hell are we doing in this country? This is so sickening.
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Post by Lexica on Apr 14, 2023 1:30:15 GMT
I have a friend that is still in the church who was sexually abused by both her father and brother. The father held a high position in the church before he passed away. The brother currently holds a high position. She moved out of Utah to get away from them. She has tried multiple times to contact the head of the church where her brother is to let them know of his history of sexual abuse, but they don’t seem to care. After listening to all she has been through, I am amazed she is still with a church that would protect these people.
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Post by twinks on Apr 14, 2023 1:32:07 GMT
This ruling angered me as well. I mean the Church came out strongly against abuse about 6 months ago. October General Conference even had President Nelson speaking against abuse. Now this. I am really angered.
Many of you know my story. I remember going to my Bishop and reporting that I was being abused by my then husband and I was told to go home and “love my neighbor” with neighbor being defined as those “close to you.” Somehow it was made out to be my problem and not my XH who had a problem. My XH pretended to be so wonderful and an outstanding member of the Church. Another time, when he went to get married in the temple again and I had to give my permission, his then Bishop called me and told me he didn’t believe me. I remember him saying, “If I were to line up 10 men M would be the one that I least suspect.” Well that Bishop got an earful from my cousin who was his best man at the Bishop’s wedding some 20 years previous.
I read about the family murdered and how outstanding the father was and how no one believed it could happen and I just get angry.
When is the Church going to stop burying its head in the sand and come to grips with the fact that there is abuse, both physical and sexual among their membership and quit turning a blind eye. I get so so angry.
ETA Gennifer is right about this. I know the law firm well as it used to be Kirkton, McConkie & Poelman until Poelman got arrested for a sex crime. He was a high Church official at the time. I knew both he and Oscar McConkie.
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Post by ntsf on Apr 14, 2023 1:59:26 GMT
any church person should have no special privilege.. they are citizens like everyone and have. a duty to follow the law.
no respect for any organization that does not have a set, written down plan to deal with abuse of any kind.. and does not include calling the cops. immediately.
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Gennifer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,991
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 14, 2023 2:52:50 GMT
I think that they should be mandated reporters, but, at the very least, they should be encouraged (or even allowed) to report it. Directing them to the church’s legal team is all about covering their own (corporate) asses, not preventing further abuse or protecting children.
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Post by Merge on Apr 14, 2023 3:09:48 GMT
I think that they should be mandated reporters, but, at the very least, they should be encouraged (or even allowed) to report it. Directing them to the church’s legal team is all about covering their own (corporate) asses, not preventing further abuse or protecting children. This. And how will this ruling potentially fan out to cover things like church-run schools? People want tax vouchers to pay for religious schools but the people who work there aren’t mandated reporters? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. |
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Post by Scrapper100 on Apr 14, 2023 3:51:08 GMT
Beyond sickening.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,941
Location: Colorado
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Post by snyder on Apr 14, 2023 4:10:53 GMT
So fricking sad. This world is going backwards. Hope some how that can be overturned!!!!
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Post by AussieMeg on Apr 14, 2023 4:35:01 GMT
Another time, when he went to get married in the temple again and I had to give my permission, his then Bishop called me and told me he didn’t believe me. Ugh, that's awful! How tempted were you to NOT give your permission, just out of spite to your XDH and the Bishop? |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Apr 14, 2023 4:38:15 GMT
Kids and young people are not safe in places they should be. Like church, school, youth organizations, family and friends, places where there are supposed to be trusted people. In fact, anywhere at al!!
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Gennifer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,991
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Post by Gennifer on Apr 14, 2023 4:43:38 GMT
Another time, when he went to get married in the temple again and I had to give my permission, his then Bishop called me and told me he didn’t believe me. Ugh, that's awful! How tempted were you to NOT give your permission, just out of spite to your XDH and the Bishop? It wouldn’t have mattered, tbh. |
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Post by AussieMeg on Apr 14, 2023 4:46:10 GMT
Ugh, that's awful! How tempted were you to NOT give your permission, just out of spite to your XDH and the Bishop? It wouldn’t have mattered, tbh. Yeah, that's what I suspected.  |
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,626
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Post by valincal on Apr 14, 2023 4:58:08 GMT
So sorry refugeepea. I can’t wait for the day that these harmful institutions are taken down completely. |
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nursema
Full Member
Posts: 352
Mar 1, 2022 10:14:32 GMT
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Post by nursema on Apr 14, 2023 7:57:35 GMT
I’m so sorry for any of you who have been victimized by any such organization and the sick members within it. It’s infuriating to me that it is so common and we are pretty much helpless against sadistic, perverted criminals and their enablers.
How twisted it is that they have their own hired cleanup crew. That makes my blood boil.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Apr 14, 2023 11:09:31 GMT
I question why anyone stays in any church… but that’s a discussion for another day.
In essence, this is a betrayal by people that one loved and trusted. That’s always a bitter pill to swallow no matter the setting.
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Post by twinks on Apr 14, 2023 13:52:25 GMT
By the time his Bishop called me, it was a done deal. My permission didn’t matter. I have such a tainted view on all of this stuff and “authority” people in the Church. I guess this is what bothers me so much about the ruling. You have an everyday person making a decision to not report abuse of a child. Church or no Church, in what universe is that acceptable?
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,514
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Post by pinklady on Apr 14, 2023 13:53:13 GMT
Religion is the root of all that is evil in this world!
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Post by lucyg on Apr 14, 2023 16:14:55 GMT
Religion is the root of all that is evil in this world! No, people are the root of all that is evil in this world. Without religion, the bad ones would just find some other excuse for being evil. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,514
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Post by pinklady on Apr 14, 2023 17:09:15 GMT
Religion is the root of all that is evil in this world! No, people are the root of all that is evil in this world. Without religion, the bad ones would just find some other excuse for being evil. No, it's religion. Just like it's the guns. |
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 14, 2023 17:10:16 GMT
I question why anyone stays in any church… but that’s a discussion for another day. In essence, this is a betrayal by people that one loved and trusted. That’s always a bitter pill to swallow no matter the setting. Indoctrination. From the time children are three they are singing follow the prophet. Told they belong to the only true church on the face of the Earth. Families are forever. If you leave the church, you deny the truth, and you will go to hell (outer darkness). And of never read anything anti. Only church approved resources. Thankfully, the internet happened and many have left. |
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anniebygaslight
Drama Llama
I'd love a cup of tea. #1966
Posts: 7,394
Location: Third Rock from the sun.
Jun 28, 2014 14:08:19 GMT
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Post by anniebygaslight on Apr 14, 2023 17:45:59 GMT
God save us all from religion.
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 14, 2023 17:50:31 GMT
This ruling angered me as well. I mean the Church came out strongly against abuse about 6 months ago. October General Conference even had President Nelson speaking against abuse. Now this. I am really angered. Many of you know my story. I remember going to my Bishop and reporting that I was being abused by my then husband and I was told to go home and “love my neighbor” with neighbor being defined as those “close to you.” Somehow it was made out to be my problem and not my XH who had a problem. My XH pretended to be so wonderful and an outstanding member of the Church. Another time, when he went to get married in the temple again and I had to give my permission, his then Bishop called me and told me he didn’t believe me. I remember him saying, “If I were to line up 10 men M would be the one that I least suspect.” Well that Bishop got an earful from my cousin who was his best man at the Bishop’s wedding some 20 years previous. I read about the family murdered and how outstanding the father was and how no one believed it could happen and I just get angry. When is the Church going to stop burying its head in the sand and come to grips with the fact that there is abuse, both physical and sexual among their membership and quit turning a blind eye. I get so so angry. ETA Gennifer is right about this. I know the law firm well as it used to be Kirkton, McConkie & Poelman until Poelman got arrested for a sex crime. He was a high Church official at the time. I knew both he and Oscar McConkie. I am so sorry for what you went through. I feel like I shouldn't complain sometimes because my issues pale in comparison to others. I have family that lives in Enoch where the murder/suicide took place. Without giving too much detail, they know the family well. One is in law enforcement. |
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Post by hop2 on Apr 14, 2023 18:55:08 GMT
I can never understand why parents of abused children first report the issue to the institution. It happens time & time again a child is abused and the parents first call the school, church or other organization. NO it’s a crime FIRST report it as a crime to law enforcement ( police - DA office - whatever ) so the organization doesn’t have a chance to loose, misplace or outright destroy evidence. Oh, and if reporting a crime by a law enforcement person report it to a different agency/Directly to the DA don’t go reporting crimes by the police chief to the officers they are in charge of. Sigh.
Sorry off my soap box now.
That is a horrible injustice - but I’m sure the Catholic Church is cheering.
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Post by hop2 on Apr 14, 2023 19:08:29 GMT
No, people are the root of all that is evil in this world. Without religion, the bad ones would just find some other excuse for being evil. No, it's religion. Just like it's the guns. There’s plenty of pedophiles outside of religious organizations, they are just drawn to religious organizations because of the indoctrination makes it easier to get/find/control victims and the organization offers a cover or protection from repercussions. |
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Post by Merge on Apr 14, 2023 21:40:53 GMT
No, it's religion. Just like it's the guns. There’s plenty of pedophiles outside of religious organizations, they are just drawn to religious organizations because of the indoctrination makes it easier to get/find/control victims and the organization offers a cover or protection from repercussions. And since abuse usually occurs where there is an imbalance of power, theology that teaches male headship creates communities who believe their male leadership is not to be questioned because god says so. Sick people use that imbalance of power for their own purposes. |
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zella
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,884
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Post by zella on Apr 14, 2023 22:31:35 GMT
Indoctrination starts so very young and runs so deep. Three and four year olds giving their "testimony," repeating words they don't understand as mom or dad whispers them in their ear. The congregation thinking "Oh, how cute." No, not cute, not at all. Teaching them what to think, and not to think for themselves. I too have an LDS/Mormon pedophile sex abuse story. I tried to warn his bishop and was completely ignored. After our divorce he was married in the temple (barf) and I heard he was "called" to teach kids in primary. (Sunday school)
s
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