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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 11, 2023 11:31:14 GMT
We all know that it’s been happening. As costs come down, prices often have not, because people are still buying. I thought that this was an interesting read.I have been using a list and not buying items that I consider too expensive. Of course, sometimes we don’t have a choice. But companies are raking in $$, so shop wisely. www.nytimes.com/2023/12/11/business/economy/profit-margins-inflation.html?unlocked_article_code=1.FE0.7qEQ.KBBdJRODnfEA&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare“Firms are trying to figure out how to protect the profits they have built since the pandemic. For big companies in the S&P 500 index, the average profit margin — the percentage of profit relative to revenue — soared in late 2020 and into 2021, as government stimulus and the Federal Reserve’s emergency interventions stoked consumer demand. At the same time, companies raised their prices so much that they more than covered higher costs for energy, transportation, labor and other inputs, which have recently started to come down. Corporations as varied as Apple and Williams-Sonoma recently reported their highest-ever margins for the third quarter, while Delta Air Lines said its international routes generated record profitability over the summer. Margins eased somewhat last year, but have recently recovered to levels that would have set records before the pandemic. Average margins in nearly every sector in the S&P 500 are running near or above 10-year highs, according to Goldman Sachs.”
“ Companies are maintaining or even expanding margins because they are not passing these cost cuts onto consumers,” said Albert Edwards, a strategist at Société Générale, who called recent moves in margins “obscene.”
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hannahruth
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,714
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Aug 29, 2014 18:57:20 GMT
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Post by hannahruth on Dec 11, 2023 11:53:09 GMT
The Australian government has decided to look into gouging by the two largest supermarket chains here, Woolworths and Coles, they are making profits in the billions and it just seems a little immoral in my way of thinking.
while there is justification for a small price increase in some instances it is $’s not just a few cents here and there. while we can absorb increases my thoughts are with those on a limited and fixed income. It is not just food but also petrol, power and gas for cooking and heating - well everything has risen here.
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 11, 2023 11:59:53 GMT
The Australian government has decided to look into gouging by the two largest supermarket chains here, Woolworths and Coles, they are making profits in the billions and it just seems a little immoral in my way of thinking. while there is justification for a small price increase in some instances it is $’s not just a few cents here and there. while we can absorb increases my thoughts are with those on a limited and fixed income. It is not just food but also petrol, power and gas for cooking and heating - well everything has risen here. If I am reading the article right, it sounds to me that the profit margins are quite large. I am all for companies making a profit, but… Of course, people are still buying these items, so there’s that.
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Post by Merge on Dec 11, 2023 13:30:36 GMT
What? Joe Biden isn't personally responsible for the high price of everything right now? Color me shocked!!
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,878
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Dec 11, 2023 13:59:21 GMT
What? Joe Biden isn't personally responsible for the high price of everything right now? Color me shocked!! You would think it’s 100% his fault if you read half of my Facebook feed. 🤦🏼♀️
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,061
Nov 14, 2016 23:47:03 GMT
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Post by pinklady on Dec 11, 2023 14:56:39 GMT
Smart people have seen this and actually understand it but the majority of American voters are too stupid to connect the dots. I say a majority of American voters because there are many many democrats who say they aren't going to vote for Biden because of "the economy".
Unfortunately, you can't fix stupid.
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Post by FuzzyMutt on Dec 11, 2023 15:36:56 GMT
It’s not just the big firms.
Lapidary is one of my hobbies, and there is a certain cutter of a certain type of stone whose work I am always amazed by. He mines Maine tourmaline and is a wizard cutting it.
Yesterday, I drove nearly two hours to immerse myself in “Christmas” in Kennebec, Maine and meet a friend for dinner. It was the last day of their annual Prelude. Kennebec has a lot of small, local, beautiful shops, and it’s a place I always love to “shop small.” Especially at Christmas time. It was rainy and toward the end of the day, and it was the last day of Prelude, whose main event for the day had been canceled. So there were few people around.
Anyway, I went into a jewelry store, and saw a beautiful ring, made with a perfect (to me) stone, that I really really would have loved to have had. I tried it on, and it was perfect. I could see the tag on it, and it was in budget. I asked how much it was (because jewelry is always on sale.) I was working with the owner of the store. She took the ring back and read the price on the tag. I wasn’t in the mood to play around, so I asked her if the setting could be changed to yellow gold. She said yes, but it would cost more, because the price of gold had gone up since the ring was made. Reasonable, so I asked her what she thought it would be. $700 more! At that point, the ring wasn’t looking so special any more, so I said thank you, I’d have to think about it, and made to leave. Thinking she’d come up with a better price. Nope.
I went across the street to meet my friend (a local who is active in town setting up Prelude) for dinner, and she said for Prelude there should have been a 20% discount, she knows the owner and we could go back across the street. By then, I had no interest in the ring. The lady at the jewelry store probably didn’t want to mark such an expensive ring down that far, but she also lost out on an over $10,000 sale by dithering about $700.
I’ll just have the cutter sell me a stone and have it set elsewhere. Shop really small I suppose lol
To the more direct point of the article, I’m amazed at the price of bottled drinks still. A case of Spindrift went from 3.99 to 5.99 or 6.99 and has stayed there. Even random drinks in convenience stores are silly expensive. Gone are the 2/2 or 2/3 on sodas and waters.
Never let a good crisis go to waste.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 11, 2023 15:43:00 GMT
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twinsmomfla99
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,117
Jun 26, 2014 13:42:47 GMT
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Dec 11, 2023 15:59:42 GMT
To the more direct point of the article, I’m amazed at the price of bottled drinks still. A case of Spindrift went from 3.99 to 5.99 or 6.99 and has stayed there. Even random drinks in convenience stores are silly expensive. Gone are the 2/2 or 2/3 on sodas and waters. I rarely order anything but water when I eat out, but I really wanted an iced tea with dinner the other night and ordered one without looking at the price on the menu. I was a little taken aback when I got my bill--$4.49!!!! That is ridiculous for a glass of tea. Of course I paid it without complaint because the price was clearly marked on the menu (I checked the stack at the entrance when we were leaving). How many of us really look at drink prices before ordering? I mean, they seat you, hand over the menus and immediately ask for your drink order. I am used to seeing $2.50 or even 2.99, but $4.49? I could have ordered the daily cocktail special for only $6 LOL. From now on, I will not be placing a drink order until I look at the prices.
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Post by mollycoddle on Dec 11, 2023 16:21:01 GMT
I began to finally stick to my list when I shop. And now that I have read this, and it confirmed what I suspected (that companies are making big profits and even though costs have gone down, have no intention of lowering prices if they can help it), I intend to keep limiting what I buy.
Companies have a right to make profits, but this seems over the top.
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SweetieBsMom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,785
Jun 25, 2014 19:55:12 GMT
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Post by SweetieBsMom on Dec 11, 2023 16:36:54 GMT
I began to finally stick to my list when I shop. And now that I have read this, and it confirmed what I suspected (that companies are making big profits and even though costs have gone down, have no intention of lowering prices if they can help it), I intend to keep limiting what I buy. Companies have a right to make profits, but this seems over the top. I am also sticking to my lists. Companies are going to charge as much as they can as long as people will pay the price.
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Post by katiekaty on Dec 11, 2023 17:17:46 GMT
Ain’t got nothing to do with politics. It’s all about the profit line. Doesn’t matter how big the company or how small the company. The more they can profit the better. It is called GREED. Pure and simple.
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Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,852
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
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Post by Rhondito on Dec 11, 2023 17:49:51 GMT
I notice it mostly at the grocery store with items I consistently buy. If the price hasn't gone up, then the amount of product has decreased in the package.
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Post by papersilly on Dec 11, 2023 18:11:52 GMT
it's a free market. companies will charge as high as the market will pay. if their research indicates people can and will pay more, they will raise the prices. there is nothing that obligates to pass any supply or manufacturing savings to their customers. they will just increase with profit margins with those savings. if there is market competition and consumers have other options, then consumers should definitely shop around. competition keeps or brings prices down. however, if the companies don't have much competition, the sky is almost the limit for what they can charge.
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Post by papersilly on Dec 11, 2023 18:16:00 GMT
I notice it mostly at the grocery store with items I consistently buy. If the price hasn't gone up, then the amount of product has decreased in the package. companies bank on the consumer will not noticing the incremental decrease in product size or weight while staying at the same price. same box but 1 oz less product. same dress but cheaper fabric. same printer but more plastic parts that are sturdy. i saw a video of someone who swears the McDonald's Filet o Fish is much smaller now that it used to be. i believe it. restaurants are decreasing portions slowly so change is not immediately detectable but over time, it is obvious.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Dec 11, 2023 18:19:31 GMT
100% this. People get used to paying whatever things cost, so even if the manufacturing costs go down prices generally won’t follow, which means more money back to the shareholders. And since only about 58% of Americans own any stocks at all, that means the richest among us keep getting richer while everyone else continues to pay the price. The wealthiest 10% of Americans own 89% of all US stocks.
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Post by Merge on Dec 11, 2023 19:14:45 GMT
Let’s remember too that people can’t avoid buying food and necessities no matter how much they’d like to stick it to the producers. Those living below the poverty line are feeling the worst effects of corporate greed because they typically only buy necessities. A big increase in their grocery bill then means they can’t pay rent or utilities.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,340
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Dec 11, 2023 19:26:43 GMT
A price gouging that I get irritated at are restaruants that serve pastas like The Olive Garden, The Old Spaghetti Factory, Carrabba's. $19.99-$21.99 for a plate of pasta with red or white sauce and extra if you add meat! For goodness sakes, its pasta, a cheap staple.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Dec 11, 2023 19:37:33 GMT
It’s not just the big firms. Lapidary is one of my hobbies, and there is a certain cutter of a certain type of stone whose work I am always amazed by. He mines Maine tourmaline and is a wizard cutting it. Yesterday, I drove nearly two hours to immerse myself in “Christmas” in Kennebec, Maine and meet a friend for dinner. It was the last day of their annual Prelude. Kennebec has a lot of small, local, beautiful shops, and it’s a place I always love to “shop small.” Especially at Christmas time. It was rainy and toward the end of the day, and it was the last day of Prelude, whose main event for the day had been canceled. So there were few people around. Anyway, I went into a jewelry store, and saw a beautiful ring, made with a perfect (to me) stone, that I really really would have loved to have had. I tried it on, and it was perfect. I could see the tag on it, and it was in budget. I asked how much it was (because jewelry is always on sale.) I was working with the owner of the store. She took the ring back and read the price on the tag. I wasn’t in the mood to play around, so I asked her if the setting could be changed to yellow gold. She said yes, but it would cost more, because the price of gold had gone up since the ring was made. Reasonable, so I asked her what she thought it would be. $700 more! At that point, the ring wasn’t looking so special any more, so I said thank you, I’d have to think about it, and made to leave. Thinking she’d come up with a better price. Nope. I went across the street to meet my friend (a local who is active in town setting up Prelude) for dinner, and she said for Prelude there should have been a 20% discount, she knows the owner and we could go back across the street. By then, I had no interest in the ring. The lady at the jewelry store probably didn’t want to mark such an expensive ring down that far, but she also lost out on an over $10,000 sale by dithering about $700. I’ll just have the cutter sell me a stone and have it set elsewhere. Shop really small I suppose lol To the more direct point of the article, I’m amazed at the price of bottled drinks still. A case of Spindrift went from 3.99 to 5.99 or 6.99 and has stayed there. Even random drinks in convenience stores are silly expensive. Gone are the 2/2 or 2/3 on sodas and waters. Never let a good crisis go to waste. Yes on the drinks. I don’t buy many but wanted a peppermint mocha frap. I used to be able to buy a four pack of them and considered it a splurge this time of year. They used to be 4.99 I found single bottles that were a big bigger but they were almost $4 each. Nope. We don’t buy soda but drink seltzer and it’s almost doubled in price. Chips and ice cream have doubled in price. Granted these are not necessities but still.
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Post by Scrapper100 on Dec 11, 2023 19:50:02 GMT
A price gouging that I get irritated at are restaruants that serve pastas like The Olive Garden, The Old Spaghetti Factory, Carrabba's. $19.99-$21.99 for a plate of pasta with red or white sauce and extra if you add meat! For goodness sakes, its pasta, a cheap staple. This one bugs me too. I don’t mind when it’s a specialty item like Thai pasta as that’s something I won’t make at home but when it’s a simple spaghetti and red sauce I just can’t. I cringed at $20 for lasagna at the local pizza place but I could only eat soft food so I got it for take out as I couldn’t eat the pizza. That said it was really good but if it were cheaper I would order it more often. This is our favorite and splurge pizza place and their prices have gone up as well. Ordered a birthday cake at Albertsons and it’s gone up quite a bit since we started ordering them a few years ago. I wish I could say I feel like I’m being nickled and dimed to death but it’s much more lately. So many things are up 30-50% in the last couple of years. I have seen some things come back down but it’s rare, eggs snd butter and Costco meatballs although I discovered Sam’s meatballs snd won’t go back.
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Post by papersilly on Dec 11, 2023 21:24:40 GMT
and let's not forget, as wages inch up, that additional cost for labor will mean an increase in the price of good and services. the prices of today may stabilize or slow down in growth but they will never go back down to what they were 3-10-15 years ago. those days are gone. and if people think that a new administration will miraculously roll back the cost of goods and services, they had better think again. prices go up regardless of who is in office. it's just a matter of who will suffer or benefit from tax reform, corporate incentives, and social benefits. believe it or not, 5-10 years from now, you will long for the prices of 2023 just as i wish it was 2013 prices again.
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Post by nightnurse on Dec 12, 2023 0:33:34 GMT
it's a free market. companies will charge as high as the market will pay. if their research indicates people can and will pay more, they will raise the prices. there is nothing that obligates to pass any supply or manufacturing savings to their customers. they will just increase with profit margins with those savings. if there is market competition and consumers have other options, then consumers should definitely shop around. competition keeps or brings prices down. however, if the companies don't have much competition, the sky is almost the limit for what they can charge. Doesn’t make it ethical or right or a good long term business strategy. Eventually this obsession with squeezing every last dime of profit will price us all out of the market and the economy will collapse. Or history will repeat itself and there will be a violent overthrow.
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Post by nightnurse on Dec 12, 2023 0:36:23 GMT
and let's not forget, as wages inch up, that additional cost for that labor will also mean an increase in the cost good and services. the prices of today may stabilize or slow down in growth but they will never go back down to what they were 3-10-15 years ago. those days are gone. and if people think that a new administration will miraculously roll back the cost of goods and services, they had better think again. prices go up regardless of who is in office. it's just a matter of who will suffer or benefit from tax reform, corporate incentives, and social benefits. believe it or not, 5-10 years from now, you will long for the prices of 2023 just as i wish it was 2013 prices again. I hate this. Hate it. Wages are inching up, in tiny increments but they are not cutting into profit margins. Profits are what you have left after you subtract expenses and salaries are an expense. You know what does cut into profit margins? The bonuses paid out to ceos and upper management when there is a profit. But no one ever complains about that. Most of these corporations can easily absorb the cost of inching up salaries and we know they can because they managed to absorb the cost of exorbitant ceo pay all these years.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,340
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Dec 12, 2023 1:14:42 GMT
and let's not forget, as wages inch up, that additional cost for that labor will also mean an increase in the cost good and services. the prices of today may stabilize or slow down in growth but they will never go back down to what they were 3-10-15 years ago. those days are gone. and if people think that a new administration will miraculously roll back the cost of goods and services, they had better think again. prices go up regardless of who is in office. it's just a matter of who will suffer or benefit from tax reform, corporate incentives, and social benefits. believe it or not, 5-10 years from now, you will long for the prices of 2023 just as i wish it was 2013 prices again. I hate this. Hate it. Wages are inching up, in tiny increments but they are not cutting into profit margins. Profits are what you have left after you subtract expenses and salaries are an expense. You know what does cut into profit margins? The bonuses paid out to ceos and upper management when there is a profit. But no one ever complains about that. Most of these corporations can easily absorb the cost of inching up salaries and we know they can because they managed to absorb the cost of exorbitant ceo pay all these years. Where I worked there were approximately 1,800 employes. The sum of the top 300 highest salaries basically was the same amount as the lowest 1,500 employee salaries.
The CEO made close to $500,000 and was awarded $450,000 in bonues for work the previous CEO had accomplished. The outpour of public bashing over that was in the newspaper for quite some time. The previus CEO only made $300,000, so something was definitely wrong, but HR said when they went to replace/hire the new CEO they did a market analysis which indicated that job nationwide paid $500,000 plus. I know the CEO of our local hospital makes over $750,000 plus bonuses. Uncalled for.
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Post by papersilly on Dec 12, 2023 3:27:26 GMT
Doesn’t make it ethical or right or a good long term business strategy. Eventually this obsession with squeezing every last dime of profit will price us all out of the market and the economy will collapse. Or history will repeat itself and there will be a violent overthrow. Sad to say, most corporations are not in the business of ethics, right, or good. Money is their motivating factor. Money for stockholders, money for management, money for the owners. They want you to believe good and right is their mission but it's really about the money. companies will never go beyond what the market will bear. That would leave them with no consumers. Doesn't make business sense to price everyone out. They know exactly how high or low they can go to still be profitable or competitive.
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seaexplore
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,878
Apr 25, 2015 23:57:30 GMT
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Post by seaexplore on Dec 12, 2023 3:40:14 GMT
A price gouging that I get irritated at are restaruants that serve pastas like The Olive Garden, The Old Spaghetti Factory, Carrabba's. $19.99-$21.99 for a plate of pasta with red or white sauce and extra if you add meat! For goodness sakes, it's pasta, a cheap staple. Yes! My DH made pasta with meat sauce for 4 and it was less than $5 for the WHOLE MEAL!
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Post by papersilly on Dec 12, 2023 4:08:56 GMT
A price gouging that I get irritated at are restaruants that serve pastas like The Olive Garden, The Old Spaghetti Factory, Carrabba's. $19.99-$21.99 for a plate of pasta with red or white sauce and extra if you add meat! For goodness sakes, its pasta, a cheap staple. But you're not really paying for the pasta and sauce. Like you said, it's a cheap staple. That plate of food is probably pennies for the actual food ingredients. Most of the price is for rent, utilities, employee wages, health care, food and supplies, etc. Just like sodas shouldn't cost $4.00 for ingredients that costs barely pennies per glass. Nope. It's all the other stuff.
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snyder
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,340
Location: Colorado
Apr 26, 2017 6:14:47 GMT
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Post by snyder on Dec 12, 2023 4:23:26 GMT
A price gouging that I get irritated at are restaruants that serve pastas like The Olive Garden, The Old Spaghetti Factory, Carrabba's. $19.99-$21.99 for a plate of pasta with red or white sauce and extra if you add meat! For goodness sakes, its pasta, a cheap staple. But you're not really paying for the pasta and sauce. Like you said, it's a cheap staple. That plate of food is probably pennies for the actual food ingredients. Most of the price is for rent, utilities, employee wages, health care, food and supplies, etc. Just like sodas shouldn't cost $4.00 for ingredients that costs barely pennies per glass. Nope. It's all the other stuff. So very true. I did not mention overhead, but ...
"Olive Garden is an American casual dining restaurant chain specializing in Italian–American cuisine. It is a subsidiary of Darden Restaurants, Inc., which is headquartered in Orange County, Florida. As of 2022, Olive Garden restaurants accounted for $4.5 billion of the $9.63 billion revenue of its parent, Darden."
I believe their overhead is well covered by the $4.5 billion with plenty left over for the owner(s) to live high on the hog.
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Post by nightnurse on Dec 12, 2023 13:18:07 GMT
Doesn’t make it ethical or right or a good long term business strategy. Eventually this obsession with squeezing every last dime of profit will price us all out of the market and the economy will collapse. Or history will repeat itself and there will be a violent overthrow. Sad to say, most corporations are not in the business of ethics, right, or good. Money is their motivating factor. Money for stockholders, money for management, money for the owners. They want you to believe good and right is their mission but it's really about the money. companies will never go beyond what the market will bear. That would leave them with no consumers. Doesn't make business sense to price everyone out. They know exactly how high or low they can go to still be profitable or competitive. You do seem to defend the corporations. I disagree. I’m aware they aren’t ethical and I believe that’s wrong and should be changed. I also believe the greed is out of control and that companies are out of touch. They don’t know exactly how high they can go. They are already pricing people out of the market. Once they make it so the general public has spent all it has, they will take their money and declare bankruptcy and close their businessses. Something bad is happening and it will get worse before it gets better. The only way we save it is legislatively and collectively. But as long as people excuse it with “businesses are in business to make money,” it continues.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Dec 12, 2023 15:09:44 GMT
Sad to say, most corporations are not in the business of ethics, right, or good. Money is their motivating factor. Money for stockholders, money for management, money for the owners. They want you to believe good and right is their mission but it's really about the money. companies will never go beyond what the market will bear. That would leave them with no consumers. Doesn't make business sense to price everyone out. They know exactly how high or low they can go to still be profitable or competitive. You do seem to defend the corporations. I disagree. I’m aware they aren’t ethical and I believe that’s wrong and should be changed. I also believe the greed is out of control and that companies are out of touch. They don’t know exactly how high they can go. They are already pricing people out of the market. Once they make it so the general public has spent all it has, they will take their money and declare bankruptcy and close their businessses. Something bad is happening and it will get worse before it gets better. The only way we save it is legislatively and collectively. But as long as people excuse it with “businesses are in business to make money,” it continues. Until consumers understand that the high prices are not because of Biden, the companies will continue to raise prices. Right now they aren't really being held accountable and are gaining profit, so why change?
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