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Post by peasapie on Jan 8, 2024 11:58:38 GMT
I’ve been reading several articles connecting the Pioneer Woman Ree Drummond’s husband’s family to a portion (9%) of the Osage County land. That land is broken up among several of the Drummond family and is worth roughly $275 million. Ree Drummond lives on one of the larger ranches. I get that it’s not her “fault” her husband’s family benefitted from this years ago, and I know Pioneer Woman is pretty popular on this board. But I’m reflecting on how many white folks in this country continue to benefit from the abhorrent actions of their ancestors. She’s sitting on a $275 million parcel of land the Osage actively want to regain and has promoted herself as a simple rancher’s wife. I wonder if the truly simple ranch wives out there would have the capital to rise to fame as she has done. Seems to me it’s time to give that land back to the rightful owners. Here’s a link to one of many articles. You can find many more if you google. www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/10/the-strange-but-true-story-of-the-pioneer-womans-link-to-killers-of-the-flower-moon |
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iowgirl
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by iowgirl on Jan 8, 2024 15:31:26 GMT
Seems to me it’s time to give that land back to the rightful owners. But who? Lands have been conquered since the beginning of time. What happened with that Osage land is abhorrent, I am NOT saying that should be glossed over. But every stich of land on the entire world can come under scrutiny. Aztec's conquered their rivals, and they, in return were conquered by the Spanish. Britain was conquered by the Romans, who were then unseated by the Anglo-Saxons, then the Normans... and so on... It's not pretty, but history shows what changes the world goes under. Makes you wonder what and who will control us? Surely it will happen. Sooner or later. |
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Post by Merge on Jan 8, 2024 16:13:16 GMT
Every single one of us in the US, Australia, Canada, and the rest of North and South America is sitting on what used to be native land until Europeans decided to start building empires. Not just Ree Drummond.
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peppermintpatty
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea #1345
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Post by peppermintpatty on Jan 8, 2024 16:32:58 GMT
I am NOT a fan of hers. She made her brand stealing recipes from other people and calling them her own. She rubs me the wrong way whenever I see her on TV. As for the land her husband's family took, I understand both sides of the argument but I do think it would go a long way to try and make some sort of restitution to the Osage people. I am 100% sure that it will never happen though. The Drummond family really NEEDS all that money (insert sarcasm).
As for every person living on land in the US... we are not as wealthy as they are. What bothers me is when people take and take and take and get really rich off the backs of others and then cry and cry when they are called out on it. I'm not saying they are doing that but I would like to see them maybe donate part of that land back to them or set up some sort of scholarship fund to help out the children of the decendants.
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,169
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 8, 2024 16:59:25 GMT
I’ve been reading several articles connecting the Pioneer Woman Ree Drummond’s husband’s family to a portion (9%) of the Osage County land. That land is broken up among several of the Drummond family and is worth roughly $275 million. Ree Drummond lives on one of the larger ranches. I get that it’s not her “fault” her husband’s family benefitted from this years ago, and I know Pioneer Woman is pretty popular on this board. But I’m reflecting on how many white folks in this country continue to benefit from the abhorrent actions of their ancestors. She’s sitting on a $275 million parcel of land the Osage actively want to regain and has promoted herself as a simple rancher’s wife. I wonder if the truly simple ranch wives out there would have the capital to rise to fame as she has done. Seems to me it’s time to give that land back to the rightful owners. Here’s a link to one of many articles. You can find many more if you google. www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/10/the-strange-but-true-story-of-the-pioneer-womans-link-to-killers-of-the-flower-moonIt is actually more complicated to give the land back. And her family and others have given quite a bit if land back to the Osage Nation. But it isn't cut a dry because of how many agencies use the land. Also, I live on native land. Honestly we all do (unless you are part of a native tribe). Should we start laying tribal nations to use their land? |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 8, 2024 17:35:36 GMT
Seems to me it’s time to give that land back to the rightful owners. But who? Lands have been conquered since the beginning of time. What happened with that Osage land is abhorrent, I am NOT saying that should be glossed over. But every stich of land on the entire world can come under scrutiny. Aztec's conquered their rivals, and they, in return were conquered by the Spanish. Britain was conquered by the Romans, who were then unseated by the Anglo-Saxons, then the Normans... and so on... It's not pretty, but history shows what changes the world goes under. Makes you wonder what and who will control us? Surely it will happen. Sooner or later. This is my thinking as well. And it isn't just Europeans who have built empires or overtaken other lands. Maybe more recently than others, but certainly not the only, first or most likely the last. |
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Post by Merge on Jan 8, 2024 17:37:26 GMT
I am NOT a fan of hers. She made her brand stealing recipes from other people and calling them her own. She rubs me the wrong way whenever I see her on TV. As for the land her husband's family took, I understand both sides of the argument but I do think it would go a long way to try and make some sort of restitution to the Osage people. I am 100% sure that it will never happen though. The Drummond family really NEEDS all that money (insert sarcasm). As for every person living on land in the US... we are not as wealthy as they are. What bothers me is when people take and take and take and get really rich off the backs of others and then cry and cry when they are called out on it. I'm not saying they are doing that but I would like to see them maybe donate part of that land back to them or set up some sort of scholarship fund to help out the children of the decendants. So just out of curiosity ... how wealthy does someone have to be before they have to start ceding land back to native groups? Does this also need to happen in high-dollar areas of New York, San Francisco, etc.? Lots of very wealthy people occupying tiny parcels of native land there. I'm not a particular fan of PW's, either. I'm just not convinced that her family should be singled out vs. all the other wealthy families occupying native land. (Huge tracts of land in Texas, for example, are owned by wealthy ranchers and certainly were first inhabited by native tribes.) |
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Post by Merge on Jan 8, 2024 17:39:41 GMT
But who? Lands have been conquered since the beginning of time. What happened with that Osage land is abhorrent, I am NOT saying that should be glossed over. But every stich of land on the entire world can come under scrutiny. Aztec's conquered their rivals, and they, in return were conquered by the Spanish. Britain was conquered by the Romans, who were then unseated by the Anglo-Saxons, then the Normans... and so on... It's not pretty, but history shows what changes the world goes under. Makes you wonder what and who will control us? Surely it will happen. Sooner or later. This is my thinking as well. And it isn't just Europeans who have built empires or overtaken other lands. Maybe more recently than others, but certainly not the only, first or most likely the last. Not the only ones, but Europeans were certainly responsible for colonizing all of the Americas, Australia/NZ, and parts of Asia and Africa. The age of empires totally changed how our world looks. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jan 8, 2024 17:44:37 GMT
This is my thinking as well. And it isn't just Europeans who have built empires or overtaken other lands. Maybe more recently than others, but certainly not the only, first or most likely the last. Not the only ones, but Europeans were certainly responsible for colonizing all of the Americas, Australia/NZ, and parts of Asia and Africa. The age of empires totally changed how our world looks. And before that there were the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Mongol empire, Russian empire, and others. Individual countries have had a lot of change over the course of history as well. My point is that the world has changed many times over |
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jan 8, 2024 18:12:30 GMT
I recently saw this story on CNN: www.cnn.com/2024/01/05/world/peregrine-moon-mission-navajo-nation-objection-human-remains-scn/index.htmlThere was an objection by the Navajo nation to the US putting human remains on the moon. " But Navajo Nation President Buu Nygren said that allowing the remains to touch down there would be an affront to many indigenous cultures, which revere the moon." It made me think, if we decide to honor that objection, ok fine, but who is to stop another nation - China, India, etc - from honoring that policy? The article does say "The debate raises new questions at the dawn of a race to colonize the moon about who controls Earth’s only natural satellite. “No one, and no religion, owns the moon,” Celestis’ CEO told CNN. “If the beliefs of the world’s multitude of religions were considered, it’s quite likely that no missions would ever be approved. Simply put, we do not and never have let religious beliefs dictate humanity’s space efforts. There is not and should not be a religious test.” " |
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Post by workingclassdog on Jan 8, 2024 18:16:25 GMT
I am NOT a fan of hers. She made her brand stealing recipes from other people and calling them her own. I just want to say she has never called her recipes her own. She has commented on this before. I don't wanna hijack this thread by going down the recipe road though.. What is that family supposed to do now? Give it all back? Then that means ALL of us white people need to give back any land we are on. I don't live far from where a massacre took place in Colorado. If it happened to be where my house is at, am I supposed to give it away? We all come from the past white people who did this. There is no way to ever sort that out. Every single person that lives in this country comes from that... is it right? No. |
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Post by papersilly on Jan 8, 2024 18:28:12 GMT
I am NOT a fan of hers. She made her brand stealing recipes from other people and calling them her own. She rubs me the wrong way whenever I see her on TV. As for the land her husband's family took, I understand both sides of the argument but I do think it would go a long way to try and make some sort of restitution to the Osage people. I am 100% sure that it will never happen though. The Drummond family really NEEDS all that money (insert sarcasm). As for every person living on land in the US... we are not as wealthy as they are. What bothers me is when people take and take and take and get really rich off the backs of others and then cry and cry when they are called out on it. I'm not saying they are doing that but I would like to see them maybe donate part of that land back to them or set up some sort of scholarship fund to help out the children of the decendants.i would be shocked if they ever did this and i don't think they ever will. that gesture would imply that they are somehow guilty or feel responsible for the unethical acquisition of the land. their slew of lawyers are probably advising them against opening themselves up to liability or claims (no matter how many generations it goes back). i frankly i don't think they give a crap about the flack they are getting. their wealth and her "fame" are their gossamer blankets of insulation to all this. |
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oh yvonne
Prolific Pea
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Post by oh yvonne on Jan 8, 2024 18:28:46 GMT
I am NOT a fan of hers. She made her brand stealing recipes from other people and calling them her own. I just want to say she has never called her recipes her own. She has commented on this before. I don't wanna hijack this thread by going down the recipe road though.. What is that family supposed to do now? Give it all back? Then that means ALL of us white people need to give back any land we are on. I don't live far from where a massacre took place in Colorado. If it happened to be where my house is at, am I supposed to give it away? We all come from the past white people who did this. There is no way to ever sort that out. Every single person that lives in this country comes from that... is it right? No. Yes, this. She never claims any of the recipes are hers. Ever. Also, she's never ever portrayed herself as some simple country woman. on the contrary, she was a rich doctor's daughter city girl who went to school at USC and ate sushi and partied in Hollywood. The name "Pioneer Woman" is completely tongue in cheek because she married a rancher and had to learn rough and dirty ranching life and how to cook for a crew of hungry ranchers. I admire the hell out of what she's turned her hilariously witty blog into. Girl power and all that. She may have started with money but she's earned so much more and literally poured money into a dying old town's economy and turned it into quite a tourist destination bringing tons of jobs and tourism to an area no one would ever think of visiting. Myself included. They donate millions as well. I'm over people trying to cancel her for no good reason. |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,169
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 8, 2024 18:30:58 GMT
Also a lot of their land is funded by wild horses government agency. They are paid to use their land resources for wild herds.
It's not much (know someone who subsidized land for this) and was barely enough to cover vaccines, food, etc.
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Post by myshelly on Jan 8, 2024 18:48:08 GMT
I’ve been reading several articles connecting the Pioneer Woman Ree Drummond’s husband’s family to a portion (9%) of the Osage County land. That land is broken up among several of the Drummond family and is worth roughly $275 million. Ree Drummond lives on one of the larger ranches. I get that it’s not her “fault” her husband’s family benefitted from this years ago, and I know Pioneer Woman is pretty popular on this board. But I’m reflecting on how many white folks in this country continue to benefit from the abhorrent actions of their ancestors. She’s sitting on a $275 million parcel of land the Osage actively want to regain and has promoted herself as a simple rancher’s wife. I wonder if the truly simple ranch wives out there would have the capital to rise to fame as she has done. Seems to me it’s time to give that land back to the rightful owners. Here’s a link to one of many articles. You can find many more if you google. www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/10/the-strange-but-true-story-of-the-pioneer-womans-link-to-killers-of-the-flower-moonAre you going to cede the land you live on back to the native tribe that once lived there? If not, what’s the difference between you and her? Everyone’s land once belonged to someone else. That’s how the world works. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,978
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Post by pinklady on Jan 8, 2024 19:39:21 GMT
Are you going to cede the land you live on back to the native tribe that once lived there? If not, what’s the difference between you and her? Everyone’s land once belonged to someone else. That’s how the world works. "that's how the world works"  So, you are OK with someone coming to steal your land...lets say tomorrow or 30 years from now? No biggie because "that's how the world works". |
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Post by Merge on Jan 8, 2024 20:34:06 GMT
Are you going to cede the land you live on back to the native tribe that once lived there? If not, what’s the difference between you and her? Everyone’s land once belonged to someone else. That’s how the world works. "that's how the world works" So, you are OK with someone coming to steal your land...lets say tomorrow or 30 years from now? No biggie because "that's how the world works". Are you giving your land back to the tribe(s) that originally lived there? |
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Post by Merge on Jan 8, 2024 20:34:49 GMT
Not the only ones, but Europeans were certainly responsible for colonizing all of the Americas, Australia/NZ, and parts of Asia and Africa. The age of empires totally changed how our world looks. And before that there were the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Mongol empire, Russian empire, and others. Individual countries have had a lot of change over the course of history as well. My point is that the world has changed many times over The Romans and Russians are part of Europe. The Ottomans and Mongols never left their own continent to my knowledge. |
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Post by workingclassdog on Jan 8, 2024 20:55:55 GMT
The government can take away your land at any given time to use for public use deemed necessary. Should we do away with that as well?
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Post by katlady on Jan 8, 2024 21:05:55 GMT
And before that there were the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, the Mongol empire, Russian empire, and others. Individual countries have had a lot of change over the course of history as well. My point is that the world has changed many times over The Romans and Russians are part of Europe. The Ottomans and Mongols never left their own continent to my knowledge. The Ottoman and Mongol empires were huge. The Ottomans reached into Asia, Africa and Europe. The Mongols were in Eastern Europe for awhile, but mostly in Asia. But anyway, what happened to the Native Americans is terrible and sad. Lot of things were perpetrated with the aid of the US Government. But as others have said, we can't be back in time and return all the lands to them. We would have to give back most of the U.S. But I do think that more recognition needs to be given to their problems. Also, better education of everyone as to what is the Native American history in the US. I took a course on Native American history, and you learn so much more about the Native Americans in that course than you do in any high school or college US history course. It is actually depressing to think how awful humans can be. |
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Post by busy on Jan 8, 2024 21:14:20 GMT
Are you going to cede the land you live on back to the native tribe that once lived there? If not, what’s the difference between you and her? Everyone’s land once belonged to someone else. That’s how the world works. "that's how the world works" So, you are OK with someone coming to steal your land...lets say tomorrow or 30 years from now? No biggie because "that's how the world works". What is the practical solution, for the Drummonds, and every other non-native person/family in the US who lives on land stolen for native nations? (This is obviously not just a US problem, it's basically the whole world, but trying to limit the scope of the conversation.) |
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Post by peasapie on Jan 8, 2024 21:30:27 GMT
So interesting, these comments.
To those who say all lands once belonged to someone else , I would posit that you aren’t thinking hard enough about this. Lands throughout the world have been bought and sold over the years. That’s an easy excuse to rest upon while turning one’s head.
In this case though, there is a direct line between stolen lands, murder, abuse, and taking financial advantage of a disadvantaged people. It’s a very direct line of succession that points to Mr Drummond’s father, who boasts in writing about his misdeeds. A direct line to the greedy white settlers who murdered members of the Osage Nation for their mineral rights during the 1920s, the “Reign of Terror”. So turn your head if you must, but please remember doing so the next time you hoist yourself on your soapbox and pretend to have a conscience.
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Post by workingclassdog on Jan 8, 2024 21:41:19 GMT
So because of the misdeeds of previous generations the new generation must give up what they have worked for? Should we send Ladd Drummond to prison for what his ancestors did? Maybe you should go out and donate your property and get off your soapbox. What about the German people? Do you hold the new generation responsible for the genocide that happened in the past? Should they be punished for what their ancestors did? You can go on and on about your soapbox. That said, like katlady so eloquently said, we need to learn from these mistakes. Yes it is horrible what we humans have done, but we can learn from it as well. |
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Post by pinklady on Jan 8, 2024 22:07:21 GMT
"that's how the world works" So, you are OK with someone coming to steal your land...lets say tomorrow or 30 years from now? No biggie because "that's how the world works". Are you giving your land back to the tribe(s) that originally lived there? That's your response to my post??? You seriously have no issue with the "that's how the world works" comment. I'll ask you the same question. So, you are OK with someone coming to steal your land...lets say tomorrow or 30 years from now? No biggie right, because "that's how the world works". I'll actually answer your snarky comment. No, I'm not giving my miniscule piece of land back. And I sure as shit do not think stealing land is "how the world works". And just so we're clear, I never commented on the Drummonds and whether or not they should give up their land. So your inference that I think they should is dead wrong. |
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milocat
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,588
Location: 55 degrees north in Alberta, Canada
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Post by milocat on Jan 8, 2024 22:30:29 GMT
So interesting, these comments. To those who say all lands once belonged to someone else , I would posit that you aren’t thinking hard enough about this. Lands throughout the world have been bought and sold over the years. That’s an easy excuse to rest upon while turning one’s head. In this case though, there is a direct line between stolen lands, murder, abuse, and taking financial advantage of a disadvantaged people. It’s a very direct line of succession that points to Mr Drummond’s father, who boasts in writing about his misdeeds. A direct line to the greedy white settlers who murdered members of the Osage Nation for their mineral rights during the 1920s, the “Reign of Terror”. So turn your head if you must, but please remember doing so the next time you hoist yourself on your soapbox and pretend to have a conscience. What land in the US was not taken from Native Americans? Was there any bought? I'm not as familiar with the US as I am with Canada. |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,169
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 8, 2024 23:25:58 GMT
So interesting, these comments. To those who say all lands once belonged to someone else , I would posit that you aren’t thinking hard enough about this. Lands throughout the world have been bought and sold over the years. That’s an easy excuse to rest upon while turning one’s head. In this case though, there is a direct line between stolen lands, murder, abuse, and taking financial advantage of a disadvantaged people. It’s a very direct line of succession that points to Mr Drummond’s father, who boasts in writing about his misdeeds. A direct line to the greedy white settlers who murdered members of the Osage Nation for their mineral rights during the 1920s, the “Reign of Terror”. So turn your head if you must, but please remember doing so the next time you hoist yourself on your soapbox and pretend to have a conscience. What land in the US was not taken from Native Americans? Was there any bought? I'm not as familiar with the US as I am with Canada. Between 1776 and 1887, the United States seized over 1.5 billion acres from America's indigenous people by treaty and executive order. Then after that, more land. About 20 million acres. I believe about 97% of tribe lands were taken. |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,169
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 8, 2024 23:30:17 GMT
So interesting, these comments. To those who say all lands once belonged to someone else , I would posit that you aren’t thinking hard enough about this. Lands throughout the world have been bought and sold over the years. That’s an easy excuse to rest upon while turning one’s head. In this case though, there is a direct line between stolen lands, murder, abuse, and taking financial advantage of a disadvantaged people. It’s a very direct line of succession that points to Mr Drummond’s father, who boasts in writing about his misdeeds. A direct line to the greedy white settlers who murdered members of the Osage Nation for their mineral rights during the 1920s, the “Reign of Terror”. So turn your head if you must, but please remember doing so the next time you hoist yourself on your soapbox and pretend to have a conscience. What land in the US was not taken from Native Americans? Was there any bought? I'm not as familiar with the US as I am with Canada. Here is map of all tribes pre Columbus.  |
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milocat
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,588
Location: 55 degrees north in Alberta, Canada
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Post by milocat on Jan 9, 2024 1:38:19 GMT
What land in the US was not taken from Native Americans? Was there any bought? I'm not as familiar with the US as I am with Canada. Between 1776 and 1887, the United States seized over 1.5 billion acres from America's indigenous people by treaty and executive order. Then after that, more land. About 20 million acres. I believe about 97% of tribe lands were taken. Just what I figured, same as here. So no land was purchased. |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
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Post by pantsonfire on Jan 9, 2024 2:09:46 GMT
Between 1776 and 1887, the United States seized over 1.5 billion acres from America's indigenous people by treaty and executive order. Then after that, more land. About 20 million acres. I believe about 97% of tribe lands were taken. Just what I figured, same as here. So no land was purchased. Nope. Just taken. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jan 9, 2024 2:31:48 GMT
This is an interesting discussion as in my family history research, I found some interesting land history that intrigued me at the time. When New Mexico became part of the US many, many families who'd been there for hundreds of years lost their land. One contested ranchero in my family went all the way to the Supreme Court using their grants from the Spanish Viceroy to try and hold onto it - they lost. On one hand the systematic stealing of the land that was so "recent" really surprised me. But then as learning more about my Native American history - it's obvious that the Viceroy was granting land that belonged to other ancestors. So one branch of my family tree has been both the perpetrators and the victims.
I guess my story is mostly self indulgent, but I guess just reiterating most previous posters commentary that it's hard to unring the bell. And I guess it's fortunate that the controversy is educating some people on how much of this history isn't nearly as old as people think it is.
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