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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 13:14:02 GMT
I don’t want this to get lost in all of the back and forth, because this is really dangerous and alarming. In think there were signs in 2020 of the violent insurrection on January 6, but in the middle of covid and a presidential election, Trumps statements about not accepting election results didn’t get enough attention. Now we know what’s he capable of, we shouldn’t get distracted by his trials or anything else happening. We also know that the Republicans for the most part do not have the courage to stand up to Trump, even when he says or posts outrageous, completely unacceptable things like this. We should take him seriously when he uses violent rhetoric like this. I’m worried about what will happen in November when Trump inevitably loses. eta - gift article www.nytimes.com/2024/03/30/us/politics/trump-biden-image.html?unlocked_article_code=1.gk0.2rKv.hpy3Ed3EBXue&smid=url-shareTrump Shares Video Featuring Image of a Hog-Tied Biden
The social media post reflects the increasingly violent and personal attacks that Donald J. Trump has employed during the presidential campaign.
Former President Donald J. Trump posted a video on Friday to his social media website that features an image of President Biden with his hands and feet tied together.
Macabre imagery targeting Mr. Trump’s perceived enemies frequently circulates online among right-wing provocateurs and pro-Trump groups, and in some cases has been featured at conservative conferences. Photos of trucks featuring similar images of Mr. Biden tied up have been shared across social media, and online vendors sell vehicle stickers with the image.
Mr. Trump’s promotion of the video featuring the image reflects the increasingly caustic and personal attacks that he has directed against Mr. Biden — for example, in a speech this month he said that “everything Joe Biden touches turns to” filth, though he used an expletive — and it extends a record in which the former president features violent imagery on his social media accounts
Mr. Trump has previously posted doctored photos and videos depicting him physically attacking political opponents, focusing particularly on Mr. Biden in the last year. The former president has, for example, repeatedly shared videos depicting him hitting Mr. Biden with golf balls. Mr. Trump also posted a photo last year of him holding a baseball bat next to Alvin L. Bragg, the Manhattan district attorney, who is prosecuting Mr. Trump in connection to a hush money payment made to a porn star during the 2016 campaign.
Mr. Trump has also used increasingly authoritarian language on the campaign trail, repeatedly saying that migrants are “poisoning the blood of our country” and describing his political opponents in a Veterans Day speech last year as “vermin” who needed to be “rooted out.”
This month, Mr. Trump said that some migrants were “not people” and, amid a discussion of the auto industry, that the country would face a “blood bath” if he lost the election. A few days later, he attacked Jewish Democrats in a radio interview, saying that Jews who vote for Democrats hate their religion and Israel. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 13:19:31 GMT
I really hope President Biden wins by a landslide and the election doesn’t come down to something like this or worse, the Supreme Court. eta - gift link www.nytimes.com/2024/03/30/upshot/florida-2000-gore-ballot.html?unlocked_article_code=1.gk0.STkp.NSGGaAjTunw1&smid=url-shareRevisiting Florida 2000 and the Butterfly Effect
The evidence is strong that Al Gore would have won had it not been for an infamous ballot design in Palm Beach County.
We’ll never know what would have happened if the Supreme Court had allowed the recount to continue. But I don’t think it’s always appreciated that we probably do know that Mr. Gore would have won Florida, and therefore the presidency, if it weren’t for the infamous “butterfly ballot” in Palm Beach County.
If you don’t remember — it has been a while — the butterfly ballot was very unusual. Candidates were listed on both sides of the ballot, and voters cast a ballot by punching a corresponding hole in the middle. What made it so unusual was that the ordering of the candidates on the ballot didn’t have the same logic as the corresponding punch hole: George W. Bush and Mr. Gore were the first two candidates listed on the left-hand side, but they corresponded to the first and third hole on the punch. The second punch corresponded with the first candidate on the right-hand side of the ballot: the paleoconservative Pat Buchanan, running as a Reform Party candidate.
After the election, many voters from Palm Beach claimed they had inadvertently voted for Mr. Buchanan when they meant to vote for Mr. Gore. This is clear in the data. Mr. Buchanan fared far better in Palm Beach County than he did on the other side of the county line. Indeed, Mr. Buchanan fared far better in Palm Beach County than any politically or demographically comparable area in the country.
Mr. Buchanan also fared much better among Election Day voters — who used the butterfly ballot — than among absentee voters, who did not, a pattern not seen elsewhere in the state. Mr. Buchanan’s support was also concentrated in Democratic areas, even though he was a very conservative candidate.
As far as the data goes, the case is a slam dunk: At least 2,000 voters who meant to vote for Gore-Lieberman ended up voting for Mr. Buchanan. That would have easily been enough to decide the election. |
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Post by morecowbell on Mar 30, 2024 13:27:08 GMT
I noticed you evaded the question about which one of Hillary's lawyers was charged with a crime related to trying to overturn the results of the election, too. Not apples to apples of you can't name a single lawyer and Trump has 10 lawyers who have been investigated, indicted, charged, fined, disbarred and received disciplinary action for their efforts to help Trump try to overturn the results of the election. I will go back to what I said before. If you continue to make false equivalencies, deflect, evade and refuse to acknowledge basic facts about the insurrection and Trump's attempts to overturn the results of the election, it's not worth having a conversation with you. I can even repeat it and bold it, if you would like. I think you should bold and print up the last part of your post and put it somewhere you will see it while 'peaing'. It is absolutely insane to waste time in this back and forth with her. I appreciate all the information you post and share, but it is getting harder and harder to read and get information from these threads when there is so much insane back and forth with her. I know you are allowed to post how ever you want, but I wonder if the information you are sharing is getting lost in all the noise. I for one am starting to just glance over your posts on here because it is just the same things being hashed out with someone who clearly does not care what you are saying. She isn't going to ever acknowledge that Trump is flawed. She is never going to admit that it is Trump that is suffering mental decline and is corrupt and self serving. She is going to continually call you a liar and present her opinion as fact. She frankly isn't worth your time. Please accept the fact that there is simply nothing you can say to her that she will accept. I like to read all the posts you and others share here and really get some good information and follow the links to read more. But honestly, your informative posts are getting lost lately. You do whatever you want of course. I just wanted to offer perspective. I know I will get called hand slappy for this. So be it. When you hear only one side of anything it sounds convincing. The beauty of conversation is a back and forth that lets the truth/best ideas rise to the top. Not by sheer overwhelming aggression and piles ons, but a genuine back and forth, devoid of personal attacks. All of us are better off if we're around different perspectives. The only way we're going to get to the truth of an issue is by understanding ALL sides of an argument. And ALL of the facts. |
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Post by sideways on Mar 30, 2024 14:54:35 GMT
When you hear only one side of anything it sounds convincing. The beauty of conversation is a back and forth that lets the truth/best ideas rise to the top. Not by sheer overwhelming aggression and piles ons, but a genuine back and forth, devoid of personal attacks. All of us are better off if we're around different perspectives. The only way we're going to get to the truth of an issue is by understanding ALL sides of an argument. And ALL of the facts. There’s no “back and forth” with you. For you, it’s a pissing match. You’re not interested in a “genuine back and forth”. You twist things to fit your warped logic, you lie while accusing others of lying, you don’t consider other points, and you truly wouldn’t know a fact if it slapped you. You think truth has another “side”. It doesn’t. Truth is truth. The other “side” is lies. There may be different perspectives, but you can’t change facts no matter how much you stamp your foot and try. There should NEVER be a “genuine back and forth” with someone who supports fascists anyways. Their views should NEVER be given legitimacy. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 15:01:51 GMT
Sounds a lot like Trump’s recent comments that if he’s not elected, we’ll never have another election again. He’s projecting- some conservatives, partners on Project 2025, have discussed eliminating the 22nd amendment that limits a president to 2 terms. Trump is the one who said being president for life would be pretty great. Don’t think it could happen? Just look at the informal ways that Trump has abused the power of his office, amended and done an end run around the Constitution. Acting secretaries to avoid confirmation, declaring an emergency to override Congressional funding to build his border wall, pardons to serve personal and political goals, avoiding Congressional oversight, avoiding Congressional subpoenas and avoiding conviction of an impeachment through the support of your party. last time
You thought getting rid of him was hard the first time around?
Abolishing the 22nd amendment
Partner of Trump’s Project 2025 calls for abolishing the 22nd Amendment, allowing Trump to be in office foreverwww.npr.org/2022/09/06/1120383809/22nd-amendment-explainerwww.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/five-trump-amendments-constitution/618097/www.theamericanconservative.com/trump-2028/ |
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Post by gar on Mar 30, 2024 15:02:09 GMT
When you hear only one side of anything it sounds convincing. The beauty of conversation is a back and forth that lets the truth/best ideas rise to the top. Not by sheer overwhelming aggression and piles ons, but a genuine back and forth, devoid of personal attacks. All of us are better off if we're around different perspectives. The only way we're going to get to the truth of an issue is by understanding ALL sides of an argument. And ALL of the facts. There’s no “back and forth” with you. For you, it’s a pissing match. You’re not interested in a “genuine back and forth”. You twist things to fit your warped logic, you lie while accusing others of lying, you don’t consider other points, and you truly wouldn’t know a fact if it slapped you. You think truth has another “side”. It doesn’t. Truth is truth. The other “side” is lies. There may be different perspectives, but you can’t change facts no matter how much you stamp your foot and try. There should NEVER be a “genuine back and forth” with someone who supports fascists anyways. Their views should NEVER be given legitimacy. Agreed. There's no honest, meaningful, genuine discussion, just semantics, hair splitting and minute technicalities that have no bearing on the spirit and actual meaning of the points put forward. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 15:07:49 GMT
Genuine political discussion can be beneficial, but only if both sides agree on the same set of basic facts. For example, the fact that can be backed up with solid, verifiable evidence that Trump did not accept the results of the 2020 election. Or the well documented fact that the January 6 insurrection was armed. You don’t get to arbitrarily adjust the definition of armed from furnished with weapons to the majority carrying guns to fit your narrative. Any discussion is not in good faith or honest without an agreement on the same set of basic, well documented facts. False equivalencies, deflection, gas lighting, semantics, evasion, focus on minute details while ignoring the bigger picture etc. are not part of any honest discussion.
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Post by gar on Mar 30, 2024 15:14:55 GMT
Genuine political discussion can be beneficial, but only if both sides agree on the same set of basic facts. For example, the fact that can be backed up with solid, verifiable evidence that Trump did not accept the results of the 2020 election. Or the well documented fact that the January 6 insurrection was armed. You don’t get to adjust the definition of armed from furnished with weapons to the majority carrying guns to fit your narrative. Any discussion is not in good faith or honest without an agreement on the same set of basic, well documented facts. False equivalencies, deflection, gas lighting, semantics and evasion are not part of any honest discussion. Yes, arguing that he (T) did accept that he lost the election is a perfect case in point. |
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Post by morecowbell on Mar 30, 2024 15:44:35 GMT
When you hear only one side of anything it sounds convincing. The beauty of conversation is a back and forth that lets the truth/best ideas rise to the top. Not by sheer overwhelming aggression and piles ons, but a genuine back and forth, devoid of personal attacks. All of us are better off if we're around different perspectives. The only way we're going to get to the truth of an issue is by understanding ALL sides of an argument. And ALL of the facts. There’s no “back and forth” with you. For you, it’s a pissing match. You’re not interested in a “genuine back and forth”. This from someone that can't debate the topic and reverts to personal attacks every single time. The very definition of a pissing match. That precisely describes your M.O. Point out one single lie. Opinions are not lies, they're opinions. Now, point out one single lie. Quote it. The only people that I have accused of lying are verifiably lying. Meaning, it's right there in their post and a confirmed lie. Like this. That is a verifiable lie. I have many times considered other points and even changed or corrected. No, I think DISCUSSIONS have another side and that is what I have said. Many times. I agree. That's exactly where *I'M* coming from. That is bigotry. Label someone as something, so you have sufficiently demonized them and then in your mind (not reality) you can dismiss any opposing viewpoints. And YOU really, seriously think that’s how you win a debate.  No, that's how YOU become a bigot. People like you prefer to smear people rather than put forth an alternative idea or fact or debate them on the merits. Just keep arguing against stating truth and bulldoze over opposing viewpoints. You'll never hear a real discussion here. You're doing nothing but creating an echo chamber. There are so many discussions you'll never hear ( especially from people other than me) that might give you enlightenment to why other people come to a different conclusion than you because of the demonization the conclusions and people, invariably receive. Congratulations, that’s how you create an ech chamber. |
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Post by morecowbell on Mar 30, 2024 15:52:06 GMT
Genuine political discussion can be beneficial, but only if both sides agree on the same set of basic facts. For example, the fact that can be backed up with solid, verifiable evidence that Trump did not accept the results of the 2020 election. Or the well documented fact that the January 6 insurrection was armed. You don’t get to arbitrarily adjust the definition of armed from furnished with weapons to the majority carrying guns to fit your narrative. Any discussion is not in good faith or honest without an agreement on the same set of basic, well documented facts. False equivalencies, deflection, gas lighting, semantics, evasion, focus on minute details while ignoring the bigger picture etc. are not part of any honest discussion. When YOU make claims that YOU refuse to either back up or correct, then YOU are not having a genuine, honest discussion. And neither are those that go along with that. When YOU refuse to hold YOURSELF to standards that you demand of the other side, then YOU are not having a genuine, honest discussion. And neither are those that go along with that. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 16:04:48 GMT
I think you should bold and print up the last part of your post and put it somewhere you will see it while 'peaing'. It is absolutely insane to waste time in this back and forth with her. I appreciate all the information you post and share, but it is getting harder and harder to read and get information from these threads when there is so much insane back and forth with her. I know you are allowed to post how ever you want, but I wonder if the information you are sharing is getting lost in all the noise. I for one am starting to just glance over your posts on here because it is just the same things being hashed out with someone who clearly does not care what you are saying. She isn't going to ever acknowledge that Trump is flawed. She is never going to admit that it is Trump that is suffering mental decline and is corrupt and self serving. She is going to continually call you a liar and present her opinion as fact. She frankly isn't worth your time. Please accept the fact that there is simply nothing you can say to her that she will accept. I like to read all the posts you and others share here and really get some good information and follow the links to read more. But honestly, your informative posts are getting lost lately. You do whatever you want of course. I just wanted to offer perspective. I know I will get called hand slappy for this. So be it. Thank you for sharing your perspective. You’re absolutely right, it’s pointless to engage with her. Some days I just get tired of all of the lies, nonsense, false equivalencies, deflection, evasion, gas lighting and alternate reality that she and the far right are peddling. FWIW, I don’t think your post was hand slappy at all, I think you shared your opinion respectfully. And I will try really hard to remember that. Thank you! Reposting because regrettably, almost as soon as I responded, I got sucked into one of her circular arguments. And there’s really no point. She will just evade, deflect or insult and is unlikely to concede. I apologize for derailing the thread again with useless back and forth. Thank you again for sharing your perspective in a respectful, thoughtful way. Despite my earlier posts and lack of effort today, I promise to try harder to avoid her provocations and not get sucked into pointless discussions. |
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Post by lucyg on Mar 30, 2024 16:16:32 GMT
oh FFS, do you think the families of fallen officers differentiate between murders, accidents, duty-related illnesses, etc.? No, we don’t. HOWEVER, since apparently it matters to you: Oh, FFS. It's from the Associated Press talking about the police department’s chief of detectives, JosephKenny and Patrick Hendry, president of the Police Benevolent Association of New York, expressing anger over the murder of one of their own. From the ASSOCIATED PRESS: From the Associated Press:"The slaying was the first of an NYPD officer since 2022, when two officers, Wilbert Mora, 27, and Jason Rivera, 22, were ambushed in a Harlem apartment building after responding to a domestic disturbance call." "One of the people in the vehicle had been arrested on a gun charge in April 2023, The police department’s chief of detectives, JosephKenny said. Patrick Hendry, president of the Police Benevolent Association of New York, expressed anger over the shooting. “These attacks on New York City police officers have to end right now,” he said. “We have a family upstairs that’s devastated. We have police officers in this hallway who lost a brother. It has to end now." You are quoting opinions (colored by emotion) as fact. I gave you actual facts. You will continue to argue that I’m wrong, though. Carry on. ETA oh wait. I just reread. You aren’t even quoting the officers about this being the first murder since 2022. It’s the AP you’re quoting. I’m sorry they got it wrong. But your correct response should be, “I’m sorry I posted incorrect info,” not another screaming argument. Your information was incorrect, wherever it came from, and at least in the snippet you posted, it did not come from the mouths of the cops who were quoted. It probably came from the outdated information I found on the City of New York web site. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 16:22:12 GMT
The video that Trump posted of President Biden tied up in the back of a pick up truck is reason one million and one why Trump is unfit to ever hold any office. joycevance.substack.com/p/we-need-to-talk-about-thisToday’s widely discussed Trump post on Truth Social isn’t just another instance of bad behavior. It’s not just a shrug of the shoulders and a resigned sigh of, “What are you going to do?” Far too often, people resignedly accept Trump’s behavior because they believe there’s no alternative. The zeitgeist is: We can’t make him stop, can we?
Here’s Trump’s Truth Social post. It’s a video, and although I hate to send you to Truth Social, you can watch the whole thing here. Or read on for my description. What you need to know is that this is unprecedented and out of bounds. If you or I did this, the Secret Service would be on our doorstep within hours.
Donald Trump, by the way, is out on bond ahead of trial in four separate criminal cases. Today, he threatened the President of the United States. It’s time for the people with authority to do so to deal with him. Sure, he’s the Republican Party’s presidential candidate, but they won’t rein him in. And someone is going to get hurt if he isn’t.
What is this? It’s a video that Trump posted on his Truth Social account today, around 12:38 p.m. The subject of the clip is two trucks in full “Trump 2024” regalia, driving down the highway. The second one has a full-size, full-color image across the back gate of Joe Biden, unconscious, arms and legs bound as though he’s been kidnapped and left in the back of the pickup truck. As the truck drives off the camera zooms in on the image, just to make sure there’s no missing it.
Trump supporters have claimed on social media that this was part of Trump’s drive to the wake for a slain police officer on Long Island today and that he probably didn’t even notice the photo of Joe Biden. They’re out on social media saying it’s not a threat. I won’t dignify any of that with a response.
I know from experience as a prosecutor how seriously the Secret Service takes every single threat, or anything close to a threat, made against the President of the United States. They take it seriously even when it looks like the person making it lacks any capacity to carry it out. They always check. They always have the talk.
Donald Trump is different from the person who makes a bad joke or an evil suggestion they don’t have the power to follow through on. We know, and more importantly, he knows, how his followers react when he suggests violence. It’s unthinkable, unconscionable for a former president to even intimate that violence against the current president is acceptable. I cannot imagine George W. Bush even joking about something like this when Barack Obama was in the White House, or Obama suggesting Trump should be kidnapped and trussed up in the back of a truck.
Trump is totally, and uniquely among our former presidents, out of bounds. It's time to stop letting him break the rules. We’re entitled to more, not less, accountability from our presidents than from average citizens.
No one is saying Trump can’t campaign or that he can’t criticize Biden. What he can’t do is suggest he should be kidnapped, knocked out, and bound in the back of a pickup truck. I can’t believe that I have to write that out—there is no universe in which that’s acceptable.
Did you hear anyone in his own party calling him out for that?
Of course you didn’t. We’re long past that point.
So, where is the Secret Service? I hope they had a serious talk with the former president this afternoon. But his post is still up on Truth Social, which suggests that either they didn’t or that, if they did, he didn’t take it very seriously.
Either way, that means something more is required.
This is a five-alarm fire. We know what the reaction would be if Joe Biden tweeted a photo of a bound and gagged Donald Trump in the trunk of an electric car. Why does Donald Trump get more leeway, especially with his past history? He only continues to get it because our institutions—the courts, the Republican party—let him take it.
One of the problems with Trump is that he goes right up to the line and then hovers on top of it in a way that gives him plausible deniability he hasn’t quite crossed over. That’s what he’s doing when he targets the Judge’s daughter in Manhattan, just like he targeted Judge Engoron’s law clerk, and just like his buddy Roger Stone quite literally targeted the Judge in his criminal case, posting a picture of her on Instagram in what looked like crosshairs. That’s what Trump did today, posting an image of a kidnapped President Biden while letting his followers put on the story it didn’t mean anything.
Actions have consequences. Judges have the ability to compel good behavior from defendants on bond pending trial in their court. They can go so far as taking away their guns once they’re indicted or prevent them from contacting and threatening witnesses and victims. They should tell him he can’t threaten the President of the United States. It’s time for the courts to stop bending over backward to protect Trump. He’s entitled to all the constitutional protections any other criminal defendant receives, but he’s not entitled to more.
Imagine the impact all of this is having on potential witnesses and jurors in the criminal cases against Trump. If Trump can get away with threatening a Judge’s daughter, if he can do this to the President of the United States, then what’s going to happen to them if they take the witness stand against him or vote to convict? Judges are entitled, in fact they’re obligated, to protect the integrity of the proceedings in their courtrooms. As long as Trump can slash and burn his way through the system, there is an enormous risk that jurors and witnesses will feel intimidated, and may turn away from their duty out of fears about their own and their loved ones’ safety. Trump speaks with a powerful megaphone. When he targeted Judge Engoron’s law clerk, a court security official reported she was subject to constant threats and harassment. Regular folks don’t have a Judge to step in or long-term protection. Trump knows what he’s doing. The Judges in his cases can step in and prevent Trump from doing more of it.
This is a weekend talking point for us, too, because as voters, we have the final say on who gets to be president. Make sure your friends, especially those who are undecided or intend to vote for Trump, know about this. Would it be okay to do this with a picture of a child’s teacher? Of a kid at school they don’t like? Then it shouldn’t be acceptable for a political candidate to do it to the President. It’s not a question of politics, it’s a question of basic decency. This is a powerful story about why Donald Trump is unfit to be president.
Try out a little civil discourse of your own this weekend and make sure that people who would see Trump back in office understand what Trump did here and what it means. And please share your experiences in the comments so we can all learn how to get better at having these often difficult but incredibly important conversations.
We’re in this together,
Joyce |
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Post by Lurkingpea on Mar 30, 2024 16:27:22 GMT
When you hear only one side of anything it sounds convincing. The beauty of conversation is a back and forth that lets the truth/best ideas rise to the top. Not by sheer overwhelming aggression and piles ons, but a genuine back and forth, devoid of personal attacks. All of us are better off if we're around different perspectives. The only way we're going to get to the truth of an issue is by understanding ALL sides of an argument. And ALL of the facts. There’s no “back and forth” with you. For you, it’s a pissing match. You’re not interested in a “genuine back and forth”. You twist things to fit your warped logic, you lie while accusing others of lying, you don’t consider other points, and you truly wouldn’t know a fact if it slapped you. You think truth has another “side”. It doesn’t. Truth is truth. The other “side” is lies. There may be different perspectives, but you can’t change facts no matter how much you stamp your foot and try. There should NEVER be a “genuine back and forth” with someone who supports fascists anyways. Their views should NEVER be given legitimacy. Exactly. Thank you for explaining it better then I could. If Trump said the sky was green she would argue about what he really meant,or try to say the sky is really green or accuse people of lying about what he said. It is futile. She calls Biden a murderer and screams about people posting opinions not facts. She has never once said anything negative about Trump. The fact that she calls Biden a murderer because of Afghanistan but fails to call out her Orange Overlord for his lack of response to Covid and the deaths that caused should be enough. The time she said that Biden was not compassionate is another example. How she can type that and defend that belief without calling out Trump is pure insanity. She can believe that Biden is a murderer and uncompassionate all she wants, but the fact that she is silent on Trump's behaviors speaks volumes. And as you must importantly pointed out some views should not be given the legitimacy they get when you argue with them. |
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Post by morecowbell on Mar 30, 2024 17:54:41 GMT
Oh, FFS. It's from the Associated Press talking about the police department’s chief of detectives, JosephKenny and Patrick Hendry, president of the Police Benevolent Association of New York, expressing anger over the murder of one of their own. From the ASSOCIATED PRESS: From the Associated Press:"The slaying was the first of an NYPD officer since 2022, when two officers, Wilbert Mora, 27, and Jason Rivera, 22, were ambushed in a Harlem apartment building after responding to a domestic disturbance call." "One of the people in the vehicle had been arrested on a gun charge in April 2023, The police department’s chief of detectives, JosephKenny said. Patrick Hendry, president of the Police Benevolent Association of New York, expressed anger over the shooting. “These attacks on New York City police officers have to end right now,” he said. “We have a family upstairs that’s devastated. We have police officers in this hallway who lost a brother. It has to end now." You are quoting opinions (colored by emotion) as fact. I gave you actual facts. You will continue to argue that I’m wrong, though. Carry on. ETA oh wait. I just reread. You aren’t even quoting the officers about this being the first murder since 2022. It’s the AP you’re quoting. I’m sorry they got it wrong. But your correct response should be, “I’m sorry I posted incorrect info,” not another screaming argument. Your information was incorrect, wherever it came from, and at least in the snippet you posted, it did not come from the mouths of the cops who were quoted. It probably came from the outdated information I found on the City of New York web site. I was responding to aj2hall's claim that he was nothing special. No reason for biden to care about THIS one. Even when he was right there But as THIS conversation goes on, I find myself seeing your point. |
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Post by sideways on Mar 30, 2024 17:55:34 GMT
There’s no “back and forth” with you. For you, it’s a pissing match. You’re not interested in a “genuine back and forth”. This from someone that can't debate the topic and reverts to personal attacks every single time. The very definition of a pissing match. That precisely describes your M.O. Point out one single lie. Opinions are not lies, they're opinions. Now, point out one single lie. Quote it. The only people that I have accused of lying are verifiably lying. Meaning, it's right there in their post and a confirmed lie. Like this. That is a verifiable lie. I have many times considered other points and even changed or corrected. No, I think DISCUSSIONS have another side and that is what I have said. Many times. I agree. That's exactly where *I'M* coming from. That is bigotry. Label someone as something, so you have sufficiently demonized them and then in your mind (not reality) you can dismiss any opposing viewpoints. And YOU really, seriously think that’s how you win a debate. No, that's how YOU become a bigot. People like you prefer to smear people rather than put forth an alternative idea or fact or debate them on the merits. Just keep arguing against stating truth and bulldoze over opposing viewpoints. You'll never hear a real discussion here. You're doing nothing but creating an echo chamber. There are so many discussions you'll never hear ( especially from people other than me) that might give you enlightenment to why other people come to a different conclusion than you because of the demonization the conclusions and people, invariably receive. Congratulations, that’s how you create an ech chamber. Of course someone who supports fascism would think that not giving their views legitimacy is bigotry. I know your MO. There is no conversation to be had with someone like you. You’re not worth the effort. All you deserve is ridicule. |
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Post by morecowbell on Mar 30, 2024 17:57:21 GMT
This from someone that can't debate the topic and reverts to personal attacks every single time. The very definition of a pissing match. That precisely describes your M.O. Point out one single lie. Opinions are not lies, they're opinions. Now, point out one single lie. Quote it. The only people that I have accused of lying are verifiably lying. Meaning, it's right there in their post and a confirmed lie. Like this. That is a verifiable lie. I have many times considered other points and even changed or corrected. No, I think DISCUSSIONS have another side and that is what I have said. Many times. I agree. That's exactly where *I'M* coming from. That is bigotry. Label someone as something, so you have sufficiently demonized them and then in your mind (not reality) you can dismiss any opposing viewpoints. And YOU really, seriously think that’s how you win a debate. No, that's how YOU become a bigot. People like you prefer to smear people rather than put forth an alternative idea or fact or debate them on the merits. Just keep arguing against stating truth and bulldoze over opposing viewpoints. You'll never hear a real discussion here. You're doing nothing but creating an echo chamber. There are so many discussions you'll never hear ( especially from people other than me) that might give you enlightenment to why other people come to a different conclusion than you because of the demonization the conclusions and people, invariably receive. Congratulations, that’s how you create an ech chamber. Of course someone who supports fascism would think that not giving their views legitimacy is bigotry. I know your MO. There is no conversation to be had with someone like you. You’re not worth the effort. All you deserve is ridicule. That from someone that can't debate the topic and reverts to personal attacks every single time. You're obviously projecting your own behavior. |
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Post by sideways on Mar 30, 2024 17:58:24 GMT
Of course someone who supports fascism would think that not giving their views legitimacy is bigotry. I know your MO. There is no conversation to be had with someone like you. You’re not worth the effort. All you deserve is ridicule. You're obviously projecting your own behavior. Ok, fascist. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 18:04:33 GMT
I never said the fallen police officer was nothing special or that President Biden should not care about his death. Of course his death is tragic and devastating, especially for his young family, friends and fellow police officers. I simply pointed out that it is not practical for a sitting president to attend the funeral of every fallen police officer.
And maybe not appropriate, either.
It's clear that you're looking for any reason to criticize President Biden while supporting Trump. And you're trying to blame someone else for your own misunderstanding and misinformation.
This is what I said. Again, I never said the police officer was nothing special. Every one of those officers that died in the line of duty is special, especially to their family, friends and co-workers. For someone who can be very picky about details and the truth, your own statements do not live up to the same standards. You are sometimes very loose with your own statements or ones that you quote.
Just defending myself and then backing out of this conversation. Again.
Regrettably, whoever said that other conservatives are less likely to post when they see the back and forth is probably right. Knowing her history and style, I probably respond differently to her than I would someone who might genuinely be trying to have a conversation in good faith. And I don't want to discourage honest discussions.
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 18:44:43 GMT
The connections between abortion rights, representative democracy and equality for women. Reproductive rights are on the ballot in November. eta - gift link www.nytimes.com/2024/03/30/opinion/abortion-drug-supreme-court.html?unlocked_article_code=1.gk0.cas_.8dK2yDK90XZb&smid=url-shareIn short, there is no silver bullet for reproductive rights. The judiciary is no haven, not as long as the current Supreme Court majority holds; state and lower federal courts aren’t much better, going by the Alabama I.V.F. ruling and the decisions that pushed the mifepristone case to the Supreme Court. At the same time, voter support for reproductive rights won’t make a difference if they can’t use ballot measures to make that support known.That is why any successful strategy to protect or restore abortion rights must understand reproductive rights and representative democracy as inextricably linked.That means understanding the stakes of the elections in November. If Mr. Trump’s party wins solid control of the House and Senate, this could put Americans’ reproductive rights at further risk, especially if Republicans first decide to do away with the filibuster. That would lower the threshold for passing legislation such as a 15-week abortion ban, which Mr. Trump seems likely to support.Voters will be faced with a stark choice: the choice of whether to protect not just reproductive rights, but true equality for women.This is what could potentially happen if Republicans gain control of Congress and/ or the White House. Texas Republicans
Undercover video shows Texas Republican officials attending a presentation by Abolish Abortion Texas (AATX), a group that advocates for the death penalty for abortion and IVF, including for pregnant minors. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 18:48:16 GMT
An easy choice Americans vs ExtremismThis election is NOT about a Democrat vs a Republican. It's about ALL Americans vs Extremism.
Re-electing @joebiden means:
Community, not chaos
Votes, not violence
Laws, not lies
Books, not bans
Truth, not tantrums
replying to
On Truth Social, Trump posted a video that includes an image of President Biden kidnapped and bound with rope in the back of a truck. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 18:51:24 GMT
Trump always paints a bleak picture. In contrast, President Biden projects hope. I choose optimism over doomsday scenarios. Honesty. Decency. Fairness. Equality.There are those who want to pull America back into the past and those who want to move it into the future.
My lifetime has taught me to embrace the future.
Honesty. Decency. Fairness. Equality. That's the American dream. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 18:57:26 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 19:03:22 GMT
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 19:08:09 GMT
Silence from Republicans regarding Trump's attacks and intimidation of judges and their families. threats to Supreme Court JusticesRemember when the GOP was enraged when the Supreme [Court] Justices were receiving threats and nearly all spoke against those threats? Their candidate, the one who claims to support the rule of law, is making the threats and the silence from the GOP is deafening. |
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Post by onelasttime on Mar 30, 2024 19:09:27 GMT
I think you should bold and print up the last part of your post and put it somewhere you will see it while 'peaing'. It is absolutely insane to waste time in this back and forth with her. I appreciate all the information you post and share, but it is getting harder and harder to read and get information from these threads when there is so much insane back and forth with her. I know you are allowed to post how ever you want, but I wonder if the information you are sharing is getting lost in all the noise. I for one am starting to just glance over your posts on here because it is just the same things being hashed out with someone who clearly does not care what you are saying. She isn't going to ever acknowledge that Trump is flawed. She is never going to admit that it is Trump that is suffering mental decline and is corrupt and self serving. She is going to continually call you a liar and present her opinion as fact. She frankly isn't worth your time. Please accept the fact that there is simply nothing you can say to her that she will accept. I like to read all the posts you and others share here and really get some good information and follow the links to read more. But honestly, your informative posts are getting lost lately. You do whatever you want of course. I just wanted to offer perspective. I know I will get called hand slappy for this. So be it. When you hear only one side of anything it sounds convincing. The beauty of conversation is a back and forth that lets the truth/best ideas rise to the top. Not by sheer overwhelming aggression and piles ons, but a genuine back and forth, devoid of personal attacks. All of us are better off if we're around different perspectives. The only way we're going to get to the truth of an issue is by understanding ALL sides of an argument. And ALL of the facts. Ok, good point. So what are your thoughts on this? Lindy Li…. “Where is Garland as Trump delays all his trials? Where’s the Secret Service as Trump threatens Biden’s life? Where’s the FBI as he attacks judges? WHERE’S OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM as a thug threatens the very existence of America? This is our break glass in case of emergency moment” Good questions. Your thoughts? |
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Post by Lurkingpea on Mar 30, 2024 19:18:09 GMT
Not yet. My husband and I plan to watch even though the preview made me sick to my stomach. I remember watching what happened on January 6, and just being dumbfounded, that that could happen here. Made my skin crawl. Seeing someone being OK with what happened on January 6 on the board makes my skin crawl. I know she would like to say she doesn’t support it. But she defends and makes excuses for it which is just as bad. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 19:27:26 GMT
Regarding the fallen police officer in NY, President Biden's press secretary said this ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2024/03/28/trump-attends-wake-of-slain-nypd-officer"Our hearts go out, obviously, to the officer's family and the broader NYPD family, who have tragically lost one of their own. The president grieves for them and honors their sacrifice," White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said aboard Air Force One en route to New York City on Thursday. "The president has stood with law enforcement his entire career and continues to stand with them as they put their lives on the line for their communities. Under his leadership, we will continue to support police officers and ensure that they have resources they need to continue... to do the work."www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/press-briefings/2024/03/28/press-gaggle-by-press-secretary-karine-jean-pierre-en-route-queens-ny-2/So, first, President Biden spoke to Mayor Adams and gave his condolences about the tragic killing of Officer Jonathan Diller. The President offered Mayor Adams, the city of New York, and the New York Police Department his full support in the wake of the tragedy.
Our hearts go out, obviously, to the officer’s family and the broader NYPD family, who have tragically lost one of their own. The President grieves for them and honors their sacrifice.
Look, the President has stood with law enforcement his entire career and continues to stand with them as they put their lives on the line for their communities. Under his leadership, we will continue to support police officers and ensure that they have resources they need to continue — to continue to do the work — the all-important that — work that they have to do on behi- — on behalf of the community. |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 19:32:21 GMT
Project 2025's vision is really alarming and something we should all be worried about Project 2025Reid: Project 2025 will make sure a Trump administration will do whatever it takes to impose a minority right-wing vision on a majority of us all, like declaring abortion is not health care, condemning single mothers, and implementing a 'department of life' |
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Post by aj2hall on Mar 30, 2024 19:39:21 GMT
MAGA's outrage over Transgender Day of Visibility which happens to fall on Easter this year would be amusing if it wasn't intolerant and bigotry. transgenderIf you’re upset about a date on the calendar long-since designated as Transgender Day of Visibility, wait until I tell you about the traitorous, violence inciting, porn star mistress hushing, racist rapist who’s selling $60 Bibles during Holy Week to pay his legal bills.
trans people are valued
Like Biden, I’m a Christian who will be attending church on Easter. Trump will too, but he only goes on presidential election years. Unlike the MAGA fake christians, it doesn’t bother me that years ago March 31 was designated as a day to recognize that trans people are valued. |
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