|
|
Post by compeateropeator on Feb 23, 2024 15:09:09 GMT
Just wondering on different perspectives.
|
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Feb 23, 2024 15:18:16 GMT
I'm a non-Christian who spent 34 years in the Catholic church, raised in a very conservative Catholic family. I also "freelanced" in other denominations when taking church music jobs to support myself. Based on that experience, I don't see any meaningful difference in terms of the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and other denominations when it comes to the divinity of Jesus Christ, which seems to me to be the defining attribute of Christianity.
The difference is in how they express those beliefs, apply them to their daily lives, and expect (or not) others to apply them as well.
But I remember an evangelical friend from high school taking me aside one day to invite me to be "saved" at his church. He told me that Catholics are not Christian and I could expect to go to hell if I didn't leave the church. My mom, on the other hand, was of the opinion that all non-Catholics were likely headed for hell. So I know those kinds of people are out there.
|
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 23, 2024 15:26:04 GMT
Cradle Catholic here - I never even knew this was a thing until I read the question on the original 2peas. Never heard anyone suggest anything of the sort in real life. Now I also don't hang out with a lot of hardcore crazy evangelicals either in real life or on the internet, so that may skew my perspective.
|
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 23, 2024 15:26:52 GMT
I’m a former Catholic and I think it depends on the individual. There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that.
|
|
|
|
Post by compeateropeator on Feb 23, 2024 15:32:32 GMT
I'm a non-Christian who spent 34 years in the Catholic church, raised in a very conservative Catholic family. I also "freelanced" in other denominations when taking church music jobs to support myself. Based on that experience, I don't see any meaningful difference in terms of the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and other denominations when it comes to the divinity of Jesus Christ, which seems to me to be the defining attribute of Christianity. The difference is in how they express those beliefs, apply them to their daily lives, and expect (or not) others to apply them as well. But I remember an evangelical friend from high school taking me aside one day to invite me to be "saved" at his church. He told me that Catholics are not Christian and I could expect to go to hell if I didn't leave the church. My mom, on the other hand, was of the opinion that all non-Catholics were likely headed for hell. So I know those kinds of people are out there. I appreciate your perspective. I grew up Catholic, although I will not say overly conservative Catholic…French Canadian Catholic. I am not really religious but always considered Catholics Christians. I was told by someone, in a general conversation, that they were moving their kid to the catholic school even though they were Christian because it was a better fit than the public school. I am just curious if this is a common thought among religious denominations that identify as Christian. ETA- sorry if it is a duplicate question. I never searched to see if there was a previous thread. |
|
pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,241 
|
Post by pantsonfire on Feb 23, 2024 15:40:02 GMT
My parents left the Catholic Church before I was born. I was not baptized in the Catholic Church. But raised in the local church most community members went to unless they were Catholic.
Based solely on religion itself, yes Catholics are Christian.
I mean Roman Catholicism is the largest branch of Christianity.
So while Catholics are Christian, not all Christians are Catholics.
|
|
|
|
Post by compeateropeator on Feb 23, 2024 15:56:13 GMT
My other reason for asking is I forced myself to watch Trump’s speech at the National Religious Broadcasters convention (holy crap on a cracker, let’s not go there 😄) and he mentioned the persecution of Catholics specifically. There was not as much reaction in the room as there was with so many of his other buzz word phrases and opinions. He also asked how many Catholics were there and he said oh there are a few. So they were not overly represented there and I was wondering why.
My mother (and many other family members) is a pretty devout practicing anti Trump, DeSantis, Maga Catholic . I would say she probably has voted Republican more in her life than not. While not perfect, she is pretty accepting and open to those that believe differently than she does. However we do have some family members that love Trump.
From the responses so far that makes me feel better that it isn’t a common belief.
And as far as those identifying as a Christian but not actually living a Christian life…that is in any and all religions and denominations. The same with non religious people…there are many who identify as moral that really are not.
|
|
|
|
Post by Darcy Collins on Feb 23, 2024 15:59:18 GMT
I’m a former Catholic and I think it depends on the individual. There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that. I think that's a different discussion - if your behavior and thoughts reflect the teachings of Christ. This is the rather odd theological argument (IMO) that the Catholicism is not Christianity because you are not saved by belief alone. The whole need sacraments, ask for forgiveness and do good works to obtain salvation apparently offends some "Christians" who believe that just believing in Jesus Christ alone is salvation and you're all set. At least that's what some crazy person on the interwebs just told me. It actually makes me understand some of the mindset of how they reconcile their very unChristian like behavior and judgement with their belief that they're Christians. |
|
pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,236
Member is Online
|
Post by pilcas on Feb 23, 2024 16:03:02 GMT
The Catholic Church considers itself Christian. It is the original church of Christianity.
|
|
pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,236
Member is Online
|
Post by pilcas on Feb 23, 2024 16:13:32 GMT
My other reason for asking is I forced myself to watch Trump’s speech at the National Religious Broadcasters convention (holy crap on a cracker, let’s not go there 😄) and he mentioned the persecution of Catholics specifically. There was not as much reaction in the room as there was with so many of his other buzz word phrases and opinions. He also asked how many Catholics were there and he said oh there are a few. So they were not overly represented there and I was wondering why. My mother (and many other family members) is a pretty devout practicing anti Trump Catholic . I would say she probably has voted Republican more in her life than not. While not perfect, she is pretty accepting and open to those that believe differently than she does. However we do have some family members that love Trump. From the responses so far that makes me feel better that it isn’t a common belief. And as far as those identifying as a Christian but not actually living a Christian life…that is in any and all religions and denominations. The same with non religious people…there are many who identify as moral that really are not. Even though certain things have not officially changed, the Catholic Church is a lot more open to change than other Christian faiths. The newer generations are more focused on good deeds than in the rules. While abortion is not condoned birth control is not attacked and anyone who goes to church and sees the families there can attest that it is being used. I occasionally attend events organized by the nuns that worked at my HS, the Sisters of Saint Joseph. They are very much involved in social justice, the idea that love is all inclusive and serving others. I can’t imagine that any of them are Trump supporters. It must have been very tough to listen to #45, my admiration for your fortitude. |
|
pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,241
|
Post by pantsonfire on Feb 23, 2024 16:26:35 GMT
The Catholic Church considers itself Christian. It is the original church of Christianity. I thought the Eastern Orthodox Church was the original church? And that Catholic came after the Schism? |
|
|
|
Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Feb 23, 2024 16:37:19 GMT
To be fair, I'll preface my post by saying I am no longer religious at all. So, I opened this thread just out of curiosity. But I remember an evangelical friend from high school taking me aside one day to invite me to be "saved" at his church. He told me that Catholics are not Christian and I could expect to go to hell if I didn't leave the church. My mom, on the other hand, was of the opinion that all non-Catholics were likely headed for hell. So I know those kinds of people are out there. When my boys were little (and we were all still church-going and very active in the Episcopal church), a new family moved in across the street from us. My boys invited their son to play repeatedly but he declined their invitations for the longest time. Finally, he did come over one day. I welcomed him and he leaned against my kitchen counter and said, "My mom didn't want me to play over here because when the rapture happens, your family won't be going. But there isn't anybody else to play with so here I am." Needless to say, our families were never close. |
|
sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 8,570
Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
|
Post by sueg on Feb 23, 2024 16:44:39 GMT
I’m a former Catholic and I think it depends on the individual. There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that. That would also apply to many non-Catholic Christians, even many who would not consider Catholics to be Christian. I am practicing, go to church nearly every Sunday Catholic and I definitely consider myself Christian. I do my best to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ (I acknowledge that I am not perfect, but I do my best to live a good life). As to issues like 'good deeds' - I believe that doing good to others is how I show my faith. It is not a matter necessarily of 'having' to do good deeds to be saved, but of believing that that is how Jesus would want me to act. |
|
|
|
Post by compeateropeator on Feb 23, 2024 16:47:06 GMT
My other reason for asking is I forced myself to watch Trump’s speech at the National Religious Broadcasters convention (holy crap on a cracker, let’s not go there 😄) and he mentioned the persecution of Catholics specifically. There was not as much reaction in the room as there was with so many of his other buzz word phrases and opinions. He also asked how many Catholics were there and he said oh there are a few. So they were not overly represented there and I was wondering why. My mother (and many other family members) is a pretty devout practicing anti Trump Catholic . I would say she probably has voted Republican more in her life than not. While not perfect, she is pretty accepting and open to those that believe differently than she does. However we do have some family members that love Trump. From the responses so far that makes me feel better that it isn’t a common belief. And as far as those identifying as a Christian but not actually living a Christian life…that is in any and all religions and denominations. The same with non religious people…there are many who identify as moral that really are not. Even though certain things have not officially changed, the Catholic Church is a lot more open to change than other Christian faiths. The newer generations are more focused on good deeds than in the rules. While abortion is not condoned birth control is not attacked and anyone who goes to church and sees the families there can attest that it is being used. I occasionally attend events organized by the nuns that worked at my HS, the Sisters of Saint Joseph. They are very much involved in social justice, the idea that love is all inclusive and serving others. I can’t imagine that any of them are Trump supporters. It must have been very tough to listen to #45, my admiration for your fortitude. I absolutely agree with you. I was raised Catholic (Catechism until I was a senior In High school). There was less than 10 of us left that had to go as a senior…out of close to (or more than) 50 that made our confirmation just to put it in perspective. 😄 We are a large French Canadian family with reunions usually close to or exceeding 100. We seem to have a higher percentage of openly gay and also in loving same sex marriages with families than other large religious families that I have seen. My grandmother just passed at 101 and was very devout and truly walked the walk. Even she was pretty progressive for the how she was raised and the generation she grew up in. I was allowed to attend the sex education classes at school, while my best friend was not. We both attended the same church. Her parents’ were very pro life and I think even attended rallies. My mother did not participate in those type of events. She seemed to take more of a ‘I would never do that but won’t tell you what to believe’ stance. I also do believe the younger generations are much more inclusive. I will admit I had to break up Trump’s speech into three listens with a break and a little distressing (hahaha ETA that should be destressing) in between each session. But I did it. I feel I have earned my badge to discuss it with others now. 😆😆😆 |
|
3boysnme
Full Member
Posts: 405
Aug 1, 2023 13:28:26 GMT
|
Post by 3boysnme on Feb 23, 2024 16:53:25 GMT
I chose Oprah.
I was born and raised Catholic. I have always thought of Christians being "Of Christ". I don't think that there are any religions who follow Christ's teachings that are actually Christians. I no longer consider myself Catholic or any religion really. I do try to follow the teachings of Christ, but am not always successful. But I do know I am way more successful than those who proport to be Christian and actually are the very opposite. Such as most republican politicians.
As a child growing up as Catholic and going to "church school" on certain days of the week, I don't recall them (nuns and priests) every really mentioning being Christian. We were taught about Christ and His story. Basically it was like you have to do this, and you can't do that. In church on Sundays, we "ate the body of Christ" and stood and kneeled a lot. And of course confessed to the priest that I said a bad word to my brother.
Anyway, there were a lot of teachings that are parallels to the teachings of Christ, so yes. Back then I considered Catholics to be Christians. Now? No way, no how. But then again, I also consider the so-called "born again christians" not Christians either. At least not the ones I've come in contact with. And pretty much the whole of avid church goers. What they say and do in their collective churches are not how they are the other 98% of the time.
I mean, we are all human and not even close to being a deity. But at least walk the walk and not just talk the talk. I would love to find a religious sect to call home, but as of now, I have not. I have met people that are Christian-like, and the majority do not belong to any church or claim to be a religious person.
|
|
|
|
Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 23, 2024 16:59:50 GMT
My mom was Lutheran and my dad was Catholic. They agreed to raise me and my brothers Catholic when they got married. I always believed that Catholics are Christians and still do. However, my dad would say that it didn't "count" as going to church if we went to church with my mom, and I also grew up in an area of Iowa where there were a lot of Dutch people who attended "reformed" or "Christian reformed" churches. They did not believe that Catholics were Christians and often said that their parents would be very upset if they dated a Catholic.
|
|
|
|
Post by cakediva on Feb 23, 2024 17:03:56 GMT
I was raised Catholic, no longer practice any sort of religion at all. So I selected Not Christian - Catholics are.
I was taught that the Catholic church was the first and all other Christian sects branched off from them. So in my upbringing, Catholics are the original christians.
|
|
|
|
Post by shanniebananie on Feb 23, 2024 17:26:28 GMT
Catholics are by definition most certainly Christian. Now whether they all act like they are is an entirely separate discussion.
I am a faithful cradle Catholic who is attends Sunday Mass each week. Imagine my great surprise when we moved from Wisconsin to Arkansas and I met Christians who absolutely believed that Catholics are NOT Christians! I'm sorry, what? Where do you think Christianity came from? Catholic means "universal" - all Christian religions come from the one true church - Catholicism! So, I soon learned that me being a practicing Catholic meant that I need to be saved from my "crazy" ideas.
My good friend has a niece who attends a very small Bible college in Alabama and she is asking for money to go on a mission trip to Ireland to try and convert Catholics to Christianity. According to the email, only 4% of Ireland is Christian. Good luck with that sweet girl. Can you imagine how her efforts are going to be received?
|
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Feb 23, 2024 17:38:17 GMT
My other reason for asking is I forced myself to watch Trump’s speech at the National Religious Broadcasters convention (holy crap on a cracker, let’s not go there 😄) and he mentioned the persecution of Catholics specifically. There was not as much reaction in the room as there was with so many of his other buzz word phrases and opinions. He also asked how many Catholics were there and he said oh there are a few. So they were not overly represented there and I was wondering why. My mother (and many other family members) is a pretty devout practicing anti Trump Catholic . I would say she probably has voted Republican more in her life than not. While not perfect, she is pretty accepting and open to those that believe differently than she does. However we do have some family members that love Trump. From the responses so far that makes me feel better that it isn’t a common belief. And as far as those identifying as a Christian but not actually living a Christian life…that is in any and all religions and denominations. The same with non religious people…there are many who identify as moral that really are not. Even though certain things have not officially changed, the Catholic Church is a lot more open to change than other Christian faiths. The newer generations are more focused on good deeds than in the rules. While abortion is not condoned birth control is not attacked and anyone who goes to church and sees the families there can attest that it is being used. I occasionally attend events organized by the nuns that worked at my HS, the Sisters of Saint Joseph. They are very much involved in social justice, the idea that love is all inclusive and serving others. I can’t imagine that any of them are Trump supporters. It must have been very tough to listen to #45, my admiration for your fortitude. Um, that is true among the Catholic faithful but the church itself definitely still opposes birth control. My family growing up had a lot to say about “cafeteria Catholics” who pick and choose what they want to follow. The church teaches that all birth control is wrong, and that any form of birth control that prevents implantation is an abortifacient - which is why conservative Catholics are right there on the bandwagon with evangelicals wanting to ban birth control. |
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Feb 23, 2024 17:41:45 GMT
I'm a non-Christian who spent 34 years in the Catholic church, raised in a very conservative Catholic family. I also "freelanced" in other denominations when taking church music jobs to support myself. Based on that experience, I don't see any meaningful difference in terms of the fundamental beliefs of Catholics and other denominations when it comes to the divinity of Jesus Christ, which seems to me to be the defining attribute of Christianity. The difference is in how they express those beliefs, apply them to their daily lives, and expect (or not) others to apply them as well. But I remember an evangelical friend from high school taking me aside one day to invite me to be "saved" at his church. He told me that Catholics are not Christian and I could expect to go to hell if I didn't leave the church. My mom, on the other hand, was of the opinion that all non-Catholics were likely headed for hell. So I know those kinds of people are out there. I appreciate your perspective. I grew up Catholic, although I will not say overly conservative Catholic…French Canadian Catholic. I am not really religious but always considered Catholics Christians. I was told by someone, in a general conversation, that they were moving their kid to the catholic school even though they were Christian because it was a better fit than the public school. I am just curious if this is a common thought among religious denominations that identify as Christian. ETA- sorry if it is a duplicate question. I never searched to see if there was a previous thread. In my experience, people who say something like that mean that they’re non-denominational Christian as opposed to Lutheran or Methodist or Catholic or whatever. Not necessarily that they don’t believe Catholics are Christians. |
|
|
|
Post by compeateropeator on Feb 23, 2024 18:00:10 GMT
It could be, but she goes to and is very involved in a local Baptist (?) church which I knew/know. We are coworkers and have been for quite sometime. We have skirted religion and politics and kind of know where we stand (we would have to be using outdoor voices to talk across the distance on some things 😄) but mostly idle chit chat for 15 -30 mins each day. She is a very nice person, the comment just took me by surprise I guess. At least voiced out loud. 😆
|
|
|
|
Post by littlemama on Feb 23, 2024 18:05:46 GMT
Catholics follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, so by definition, they are Christians.
|
|
|
|
Post by littlemama on Feb 23, 2024 18:07:28 GMT
I’m a former Catholic and I think it depends on the individual. There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that. Oh, I dont think we are adressing behaviors with this question. My answer would be very different if we were! |
|
|
|
Post by hop2 on Feb 23, 2024 18:14:02 GMT
I remember an evangelical friend from high school taking me aside one day to invite me to be "saved" at his church. He told me that Catholics are not Christian and I could expect to go to hell if I didn't leave the church. Well, at least you left the church, 🤣 all of them, 🤣 So you’re good on that hell thing now. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 23, 2024 18:56:42 GMT
Catholics follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, so by definition, they are Christians. Oh, I dont think we are adressing behaviors with this question. My answer would be very different if we were! But do they though? They are *supposed to* follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, or at least try to. Some of the ones I know definitely don’t practice what they preach even though they attend church 1-2 times every week. They give stuff up for lent and send religious themed cards at Christmas. They might be “good Catholics” and they would tell you they are Christians but I’m sorry, if someone goes around spewing bigoted hatred and qualifying who should or shouldn’t be worthy of kindness or assistance, I’m not really believing it. And it’s definitely not just limited to Catholics either. My sister is a Bible thumping evangelical and she’s one of the worst when it comes to saying one thing and doing another. She can quote scripture like nobody’s business but some of the things she says, does and believes are very un-Christ like. It takes everything in me to not call her out on some of the things she says. She probably thinks I’m going to hell for not being affiliated with some church but I can guarantee she will be really surprised when she gets there first. |
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Feb 23, 2024 19:04:47 GMT
I’m a former Catholic and I think it depends on the individual. There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that. That would also apply to many non-Catholic Christians, even many who would not consider Catholics to be Christian. I am practicing, go to church nearly every Sunday Catholic and I definitely consider myself Christian. I do my best to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ (I acknowledge that I am not perfect, but I do my best to live a good life). As to issues like 'good deeds' - I believe that doing good to others is how I show my faith. It is not a matter necessarily of 'having' to do good deeds to be saved, but of believing that that is how Jesus would want me to act. See, and right there is the difference, IMO. The people I’m talking about really don’t even seem to try. |
|
valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 5,797
|
Post by valincal on Feb 23, 2024 19:14:07 GMT
I am an atheist but I presume that anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as their lord and saviour is a Christian. 🤷♀️
|
|
|
|
Post by Linda on Feb 23, 2024 19:33:26 GMT
Catholic (althoughy not currently mass-going) - yes - Catholics are included under the umbrella term Christian
Moving to Florida was eye-opening - I've run into more than a few non-demoninational Christians and Southern Baptists who don't consider Catholics (or Mormons) to be Christian and consider us in need to salvation. (to be fair - Catholic have historically tried to convert people also)
as to whether individuals who call themselves Christian actually are through their words and actions? I am reminded that Church is for sinners and we all are sinners but also of Matthew 7:21-23
|
|
pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,236
Member is Online
|
Post by pilcas on Feb 23, 2024 20:13:47 GMT
The Catholic Church considers itself Christian. It is the original church of Christianity. I thought the Eastern Orthodox Church was the original church? And that Catholic came after the Schism? From what I understand, there was one Church. They split and one became EOChurch the other Roman Catholic. |
|
|
|
Post by FuzzyMutt on Feb 23, 2024 20:15:59 GMT
I’m a former Catholic and I think it depends on the individual. There are people I know who are definitely Catholics who claim to be Christians but their behavior definitely doesn’t reflect that. I think that's a different discussion - if your behavior and thoughts reflect the teachings of Christ. This is the rather odd theological argument (IMO) that the Catholicism is not Christianity because you are not saved by belief alone. The whole need sacraments, ask for forgiveness and do good works to obtain salvation apparently offends some "Christians" who believe that just believing in Jesus Christ alone is salvation and you're all set. At least that's what some crazy person on the interwebs just told me. It actually makes me understand some of the mindset of how they reconcile their very unChristian like behavior and judgement with their belief that they're Christians. I was born and baptized Catholic, and the religion stuck around the house for a few years. My Dad was raised Catholic, and would still tell you he's Catholic, although he hasn't been in a Catholic (or other) Church but 3 times in my lifetime. Eventually, my parents drifted away from the Italian immigrant Catholic side of our family to the "we believe in Jesus as the Son of God and Savior, no need for all the other stuff" side. What felt like forever later (really not that long- I was in late elementary school), that "we believe" side became very involved with the local Presbyterian Church. I went with my grandparents, and that was quite possibly the most amazing group of "good works" people I've ever known in my life. I think it's silly to say non-Catholic Christians don't engage in good works. Maybe it's because they do it more out of fellowship/kindness/community than to curry favor with the man representing God? In my adulthood, I tried to find another church home, but nothing felt quite like that congregation and Pastor. I didn't bother with Catholicism because they are too invested in exclusion and I find that off putting. I don't know how divorced people can say they are Catholic with a straight face. Or a person on birth control, or whatever. I don't know the current versions of what is acceptable to the humans running the Catholic Church, and I don't have a desire to. I consider Catholics to be Christians. Religion is a manmade concept and has been cultivated over the ages to be a tool of rule and comfort to man. I believe I can ask for forgiveness of God, directly, no middleman is required. And the fact Jesus made wine out of water tells me I don't need a specific sacrament to be a Christian, or to be saved. As far as judging the degree to which others live up to my (or the church's) expectation of what behavior is befitting a Christian? I'm gonna leave that up to God, and just stick with "love my fellow man." |
|
