scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,122
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Sept 20, 2024 13:57:36 GMT
Not that I don't care about the environment, but I feel like an even bigger issue in this country is the amount of complete crap in our food. Things that are flat out banned in other countries, are considered perfectly fine here. There is a reason why we are an obese nation. Just look up what high fructose corn syrup does to the body.
Jeremygirl, congrats on the change in diet! It's amazing how much better one feels just by making some adjustments. Way to go on prioritizing your health!
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 20, 2024 14:00:08 GMT
Not to pick on you, but in my experience, trying to substitute like for like to make a vegan version of a dinner that would normally be made with animal products is more expensive. Like using vegan cheese vs. dairy cheese, for example. Or hamburger vs. Impossible burgers. But I think if people can develop the skills to cook plant based and get out of the mindset of animal products as the thing with which recipes are focused around, then they will see costs be comparable, if not less. My store brand can of coconut cream is actually cheaper than a pint of my store brand heavy cream but by only 6 cents. So it would be a wash for me. Yes, substituting vegan alternatives can be pricy, but it's also not always necessary. As you said, these meals don't always have to revolve around meat. My kids didn't have any idea that most people put meat in tacos for years. They thought everyone ate tacos with rice & beans. And the rice & beans are cheaper than both the plant based meat crumbles and the actual meat.  Our lasagna was made with spinach, and never with meat. DH once tried to throw in plant based meat and my kids were like "What the heck did you do to the lasagna??"  And he never tried that again. This is cute. It's so true that we are products of our environment. I think that's the main reason why people have the pushback on this issue they do. It's not the food for most people, many on my Facebook are like, that looks delicious. My neighbor is wanting to borrow all my new cookbooks and she has never prepared vegan meals (she's a darn good cook too). I just think the way we celebrate is with food, the way we show love is with food, we have secret family recipes, food is comfort for a lot of people. There is an emotional connection. And then suggesting they do something other than what they know and are connected to? That's hard. I get it. I'm one of those people who love to cook and bake. My cookies I've been perfecting for years and my husband is quite a cookie monster. When they say a way to a man's heart is through his stomach, they are describing my husband. And I have provided. This was a big change for him too. He is quite a bit pickier than I am and I never give him a hassle about what he chooses to eat, but surprisingly? He has eaten with me 3 or 4 nights a week since I've made this change. I did not expect that. But again, I've tried very hard to make good quality food, just with different ingredients. |
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compeateropeator
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,383 
Member is Online
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Post by compeateropeator on Sept 20, 2024 14:08:40 GMT
I am not one that I can see going vegan or vegetarian, but I certainly try and eat more local and with more veggies. Again while not saying it isn’t doable or that I couldn’t, but part of my issue is I do not like beans…none of them really. I will eat fresh string beans but pretty much any other bean is out. So that really limits your protein options.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 20, 2024 14:09:55 GMT
Jeremygirl, congrats on the change in diet! It's amazing how much better one feels just by making some adjustments. Way to go on prioritizing your health! Thank you, I feel quite a bit better. I have had quite a few changes. Around weeks 4-6 my skin broke out like I haven't seen in 30 years. I had to completely change my moisturizer because it was too heavy for my skin anymore. Around week 7, the gas was so bad that I honestly thought I had IBS that this diet uncovered. I called my doctor and she is plant based too (she was aware of what I was doing) and she said, stick with it and that about two months in the gut microbiome is completely changing. I did and by week 9, that symptom had passed. My eczema has been in remission for almost 2 years. But I have two patches of psoriasis on my elbows that have plagued me for years and years. One arm is now clear and the other is very close to completely cleared up. And maybe my bipolar meds are just working really well right now, but I'm not taking for granted that my mood has been very stable. I haven't been this stable in over 8 years. My cholesterol came down. I'm working on other things, like sugar, alcohol intake and exercise to help lower A1C and I hope to have that under better control by my next round of blood work in January. I've also lost just over 12 pounds. So all in all, it's been pretty good. |
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angel97701
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,571
Jun 26, 2014 2:04:25 GMT
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Post by angel97701 on Sept 20, 2024 14:15:51 GMT
Having been in the position for about 15 years of raising my own beef for our family and other's consumption I know what it cost me . . . . Granted I did not include the price of what we paid for our property and home. We had a hobby farm of sorts, where if it were green it was watered. I included the price of water, fertilizer, some upkeep on the irrigation, cost of the 2 cattle on the hoof, butchering and cut/wrap fees. In 2022 my clients paid $5.25 per pound, making my portion of about $1000 per half a head--"free" to me. I considered the labor and care it takes to procure, care for, maintain, make phone calls etc as my payment towards the cost of the beef. I bought from a local rancher who raised organic beef with the minimum of but required vaccinations. The steer were 15-18 months old we they were delivered and we feed them on our grass field from May-Oct. They would also get greens/corn stalks/apples from our garden and property. We would grain them out the last 6 weeks. The year we had an abundance of apples on the ground the beef was very sweet. I am no longer able to do this, and most organic beef I buy nowis not as good and ground had more fat.
Having said that I also must point out that in some states and provinces eat a great deal of wild caught protein--deer, moose, elk, fish, sea food etc. Alaska where I was raised is one such place. Even now my niece's husband catches ALMOST all of the protein they eat on Prince of Wales Island in AK. As I write, he & his parents are on a 10-day moose hunt as they got tags. Alaskan's have salmon, halibut, bass, etc. and all kinds of game in the freezer.
When on the hobby farm I raised and preserved as much as I could. But far not enough to feed my family, but it was always high quality and organic. Beans, corn, spaghetti squash, cucumbers, lettuce, herbs, onions--anything that would survive my difficult gardening zone of the High Dessert of Central Oregon. Oh and we had chickens too. Can't beat fresh farm eggs.
I know that eating this way is not possible for most of the population in the US. But just to point out that one size does not fit all.
I am another that has a food sensitivities and digestive issues. DF, GF, and produce must be mostly cooked. It would be impossible for me to plan meals for both my family (no issues) and myself that would exclude meat.
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Post by melanell on Sept 20, 2024 14:46:34 GMT
I am not one that I can see going vegan or vegetarian, but I certainly try and eat more local and with more veggies. Again while not saying it isn’t doable or that I couldn’t, but part of my issue is I do not like beans…none of them really. I will eat fresh string beans but pretty much any other bean is out. So that really limits your protein options. It's so hard when you dislike a main component of a type of eating. I struggle with not liking anything even remotely spicy and not being able to eat cilantro at all. I also don't really like lentils or quinoa very much, but at least with the last two, I can sometimes hide them in with other ingredients. But I find that those other 2 limitations really kill the variety available to me, because it cancels out entire types of food. Many cultures cook with heavy and/or hot spices, and many love their cilantro. But I agree that not liking beans would make things very difficult. Also, anyone with food allergies I think would struggle, especially nut or soy. |
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Post by chaosisapony on Sept 20, 2024 14:47:29 GMT
I will say that I cringe when I grocery shop to suit their vegan diet though, it's very expensive to buy the vegan alternatives they use. Like coconut cream instead of heavy cream, etc. Not to pick on you, but in my experience, trying to substitute like for like to make a vegan version of a dinner that would normally be made with animal products is more expensive. Like using vegan cheese vs. dairy cheese, for example. Or hamburger vs. Impossible burgers. But I think if people can develop the skills to cook plant based and get out of the mindset of animal products as the thing with which recipes are focused around, then they will see costs be comparable, if not less. My store brand can of coconut cream is actually cheaper than a pint of my store brand heavy cream but by only 6 cents. So it would be a wash for me. I think anything we can do to reduce consumption of animal products is better for the Earth and the individual. I don't disagree with your point, I just think asking people to completely relearn cooking and give up their favorite recipes is unrealistic. We'd all be better served by having plentiful vegan alternatives at reasonable prices in every grocery store. My store brand can of coconut cream is $5.26. The similar size store brand heavy cream is $2.39. Last fall my work had a demonstrator from our local Blue Zones project come in and make a plant based meal in our breakroom. She talked all about the Blue Zones lifestyles found worldwide. It was really fascinating. I won a cook book full of plant based recipes. I'll admit I haven't tried any of them because most of them just don't sound good. That's my own picky eater hang up though. You might be interested in the cookbook. www.amazon.com/Blue-Zones-Kitchen-Recipes-Live/dp/1426220138 |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 20, 2024 14:51:01 GMT
Thank you for the cookbook recommendation chaosisapony! I'm not much of a TV watcher but I did watch that documentary on the Blue Zones. I found it so very interesting. If you thought her presentation was good, you might enjoy watching it. It's called something like How to Live to 100. |
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,861
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Post by scrapngranny on Sept 20, 2024 15:25:05 GMT
I think the bigger problem is all the processed foods. Eating Whole Foods, whether plant or animal is better for our bodies than anything that comes in a package. Fast food is killing us and the planet.
I live in an ag area and can see where plants and animals take their toll on the environment. I kind of agree that we are trying to sustain more people than the earth is meant to handle. We want cheaper food prices and that can only happen through big business and big business means manipulating the product from beginning to end. Chemicals are involved in the entire process.
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Post by hop2 on Sept 20, 2024 15:32:23 GMT
Not to pick on you, but in my experience, trying to substitute like for like to make a vegan version of a dinner that would normally be made with animal products is more expensive. Like using vegan cheese vs. dairy cheese, for example. Or hamburger vs. Impossible burgers. But I think if people can develop the skills to cook plant based and get out of the mindset of animal products as the thing with which recipes are focused around, then they will see costs be comparable, if not less. My store brand can of coconut cream is actually cheaper than a pint of my store brand heavy cream but by only 6 cents. So it would be a wash for me. I think anything we can do to reduce consumption of animal products is better for the Earth and the individual. I don't disagree with your point, I just think asking people to completely relearn cooking and give up their favorite recipes is unrealistic. We'd all be better served by having plentiful vegan alternatives at reasonable prices in every grocery store. My store brand can of coconut cream is $5.26. The similar size store brand heavy cream is $2.39. Last fall my work had a demonstrator from our local Blue Zones project come in and make a plant based meal in our breakroom. She talked all about the Blue Zones lifestyles found worldwide. It was really fascinating. I won a cook book full of plant based recipes. I'll admit I haven't tried any of them because most of them just don't sound good. That's my own picky eater hang up though. You might be interested in the cookbook. www.amazon.com/Blue-Zones-Kitchen-Recipes-Live/dp/1426220138That is because the dairy industry is price controlled & subsidized by the government. We have never paid the real cost of a gallon of milk in my lifetime. |
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Post by 950nancy on Sept 20, 2024 15:36:51 GMT
jeremysgirl do you truly eat tofu in place of beef? I'm just curious as I've never eaten tofu. (Don't come at me, I'm a midwestern girl raised by a farmer.) I had a coworker who ate it every day at lunch. I tried it probably a dozen times in different meals over the years. She was good about trying to get people trying different options, but I never thought it tasted good. It also never filled me up when she brought dishes of it for potluck. I grew up in the midwest and beef is just so much more satisfying to me. I only have it maybe twice a week, but those meals are my favorites. I do like veggies. I just cannot eat a plant based diet for more than one or two days. After that, I get blah about the meals. I also feel like I need to be mindful of consumption (all kinds of consumption), but I don't have the personality (or whatever the drive is) to go to an extreme (positive or negative) with how I live my life. Could I do it if my health depended on it? Probably, but for now, I eat what I enjoy in moderation and truly enjoy my food. |
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Sept 20, 2024 15:46:23 GMT
I think the bigger problem is all the processed foods. Eating Whole Foods, whether plant or animal is better for our bodies than anything that comes in a package. Fast food is killing us and the planet. ^^^ this. I grew up with a mom who cooked from scratch (meat and potatoes, mostly), and we had a garden... when I got out on my own, I did NOT cook. I never learned how to actually 'cook' while I was growing up. Processed food items EXPLODED during the 1980s and beyond. During my 20s and 30s, I lived on Lean Cuisines, WW frozen entrees, frozen pizzas, canned soup + grilled cheese (processed American cheese food slices), and the like. My all-time favorite cereals are Lucky Charms and Honey Smacks (previously called Sugar Smacks); my all-time favorite snack food is Cheetos. Cheetos is NOT an actual FOOD. None of what I lived on for most of my adult life was actual food, except the frozen vegetables I added to my frozen entrees. Most of what's in the interior aisles of the grocery store is not actual FOOD that ANY person could replicate with a recipe. MOST of what's for sale in stores nowadays is industrially-processed, artificially sweetened / salted / fattened edible food-adjacent items developed in a LAB to hit the 'bliss point' for addictiveness-- to make us want more, so the companies can make more and more money. The big industrial "food" companies are doing the same thing the tobacco companies did, and most people don't even realize it. eta: maybe my viewpoint on this is too cynical, but I don't think so. Another good book on this topic is The Pleasure Trap by Dr. Doug Lisle and Dr. Alan Goldhamer. (I haven't read the book yet, but I've heard them speak on this topic on a lot of podcasts.) And Salt Sugar Fat is a REALLY good book- and sobering / scary at the same time, when you realize how easily the big companies can manipulate us into buying what they want us to. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 20, 2024 16:10:07 GMT
The big industrial "food" companies are doing the same thing the tobacco companies did, and most people don't even realize it. I don't think people realize just how insidious the problem is. The economics of it, the government's involvement, the marketing, etc. There is more and more discussion of it going on in the media right. On social media too. The fitfluencers are all over Threads, at the very least. The availability of the weight loss drugs has created all manner of online debate about diet again. I think we will see people's knowledge start to increase as they get exposed to some of these things. I've been working very hard to grow my own knowledge. I'm optimistic that the public will eventually start to demand better. |
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Post by Merge on Sept 20, 2024 16:15:51 GMT
I think the bigger problem is all the processed foods. Eating Whole Foods, whether plant or animal is better for our bodies than anything that comes in a package. Fast food is killing us and the planet. ^^^ this. I grew up with a mom who cooked from scratch (meat and potatoes, mostly), and we had a garden... when I got out on my own, I did NOT cook. I never learned how to actually 'cook' while I was growing up. Processed food items EXPLODED during the 1980s and beyond. During my 20s and 30s, I lived on Lean Cuisines, WW frozen entrees, frozen pizzas, canned soup + grilled cheese (processed American cheese food slices), and the like. My all-time favorite cereals are Lucky Charms and Honey Smacks (previously called Sugar Smacks); my all-time favorite snack food is Cheetos. Cheetos is NOT an actual FOOD. None of what I lived on for most of my adult life was actual food, except the frozen vegetables I added to my frozen entrees. Most of what's in the interior aisles of the grocery store is not actual FOOD that ANY person could replicate with a recipe. MOST of what's for sale in stores nowadays is industrially-processed, artificially sweetened / salted / fattened edible food-adjacent items developed in a LAB to hit the 'bliss point' for addictiveness-- to make us want more, so the companies can make more and more money. The big industrial "food" companies are doing the same thing the tobacco companies did, and most people don't even realize it. eta: maybe my viewpoint on this is too cynical, but I don't think so. Another good book on this topic is The Pleasure Trap by Dr. Doug Lisle and Dr. Alan Goldhamer. (I haven't read the book yet, but I've heard them speak on this topic on a lot of podcasts.) And Salt Sugar Fat is a REALLY good book- and sobering / scary at the same time, when you realize how easily the big companies can manipulate us into buying what they want us to. You’re absolutely right, and the fact that the crap is usually cheaper than the good stuff (unless you really do cook from scratch) only helps it jump into people’s carts. I really learned to cook well from scratch during the five years I was a SAHM and we had no money and I had plenty of time. Necessity plus opportunity. People need both to push them in the path of change, and opportunity is lacking for a lot of people. |
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scrappinmama
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,122
Jun 26, 2014 12:54:09 GMT
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Post by scrappinmama on Sept 20, 2024 16:18:04 GMT
So true about our grocery stores. People don't cook from scratch anymore. Processed food is so bad for you.
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Post by hop2 on Sept 20, 2024 19:21:54 GMT
With the necessity for dual income families who has the time to cook everything from scratch anymore?
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Post by melanell on Sept 21, 2024 12:31:41 GMT
The big industrial "food" companies are doing the same thing the tobacco companies did, and most people don't even realize it. I'm optimistic that the public will eventually start to demand better. I'm hopeful. We've seen a tiny bit of that demand already. Money talks, after all, and if we are buying one thing over another, companies notice. For instance, high fructose corn syrup---I can't eat it. And back in the late 90s, avoiding it was tricky if you were buying anything processed at all. Now, it's so much easier, that when I pick up a new to me product, if I see it, I'm shocked! Similarly, back in the early 90s, finding meat or dairy alternatives was very difficult. It's now far easier. We now can access nutritional info for all products we buy, including food from chains fast food places, the latter of which is a newer development. Now again, this is still talking about buying processed foods, of course, but the point still remains that it's instances in which the public demanded something of their grocers and food manufacturers, and they got what they were asking for. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 21, 2024 14:37:35 GMT
Beef and cheese consumption has skyrocketed over the past 30 years. That's a change people made that might on an individual level seem negligible. But when many do it, it's big impact. Like what we are seeing right now. It happened gradually. What if we rolled back the dial on it? not possible, IMO. The marketing / big ag / political lobby / economy juggernaut is just too big to stop. The article says only 4 g of every 100 g of beef is protein. It's horribly inefficient for us to get protein from meat. But tell anyone you know that you don't eat meat, and what's their first question- "where do you get your protein?" Have you ever tried to explain to someone that plants actually contain protein? They act like you must be crazy. The reason there's so much cheese is that low-fat milk started becoming popular... and the industry needed something to do with the fat from the milk. Cheese lasts longer than milk. voila! Let's have fast-food companies start pushing cheeseburgers with 4 kinds of cheese on! Pizza with cheese in the crust! Cheese in 'insert food here.' (this kind of thing was actually done- the industry goes to the food companies and gets them to up their consumption of the product.) Humans don't need calcium from milk. Calcium from milk does NOT protect us against osteoporosis; quite the opposite, actually. But 'got milk' and 'milk does a body good' are STILL what's out there in the media. And what would the beef farmers do for a job if everyone stopped eating beef? or the meat-packers, processors, hamburger bun manufacturers, etc.? You can't put all those McDonald's and Burger Kings out of business- what would their workers do?? (/s ... but you get my point. I don't think a change like that could ever actually happen, because there WILL be people who will ask those kinds of questions, just to continue the status quo for their political constituents / shareholders, etc.) Actually, our bodies absorb the protein from animal products much better than protein in plant products. You have to eat a lot more of plant products to get the same amount of protein load as animal products. So, if a plant product says it has 14g of protein your body is not absorbing/utilizing that 14g. And you don’t get all of the necessary nutrients. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 21, 2024 15:42:07 GMT
not possible, IMO. The marketing / big ag / political lobby / economy juggernaut is just too big to stop. The article says only 4 g of every 100 g of beef is protein. It's horribly inefficient for us to get protein from meat. But tell anyone you know that you don't eat meat, and what's their first question- "where do you get your protein?" Have you ever tried to explain to someone that plants actually contain protein? They act like you must be crazy. The reason there's so much cheese is that low-fat milk started becoming popular... and the industry needed something to do with the fat from the milk. Cheese lasts longer than milk. voila! Let's have fast-food companies start pushing cheeseburgers with 4 kinds of cheese on! Pizza with cheese in the crust! Cheese in 'insert food here.' (this kind of thing was actually done- the industry goes to the food companies and gets them to up their consumption of the product.) Humans don't need calcium from milk. Calcium from milk does NOT protect us against osteoporosis; quite the opposite, actually. But 'got milk' and 'milk does a body good' are STILL what's out there in the media. And what would the beef farmers do for a job if everyone stopped eating beef? or the meat-packers, processors, hamburger bun manufacturers, etc.? You can't put all those McDonald's and Burger Kings out of business- what would their workers do?? (/s ... but you get my point. I don't think a change like that could ever actually happen, because there WILL be people who will ask those kinds of questions, just to continue the status quo for their political constituents / shareholders, etc.) Actually, our bodies absorb the protein from animal products much better than protein in plant products. You have to eat a lot more of plant products to get the same amount of protein load as animal products. So, if a plant product says it has 14g of protein your body is not absorbing/utilizing that 14g. And you don’t get all of the necessary nutrients. Where are all the protein deficient vegans? Surely they would be out there suffering from diseasesif they existed. If you are concerned with protein intake, I'd suggest reading Dr. Garth Davis Proteinaholic. Just the deleterious effects of an overabundance of heme iron (only in animal products) is a problem. Dr. Davis is a bariatric surgeon. The reason why it's easier absorbed is because it doesn't contain fiber. Everyone and their brother seems to be concerned with protein but the fact is the average American diet is fiber deficient. The combination of these two things, overconsumption of animal protein plus a lack of fiber is playing a nasty role in the increase we are seeing in colon cancer. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Sept 21, 2024 16:02:03 GMT
Actually, our bodies absorb the protein from animal products much better than protein in plant products. You have to eat a lot more of plant products to get the same amount of protein load as animal products. So, if a plant product says it has 14g of protein your body is not absorbing/utilizing that 14g. And you don’t get all of the necessary nutrients. Where are all the protein deficient vegans? Surely they would be out there suffering from diseasesif they existed. If you are concerned with protein intake, I'd suggest reading Dr. Garth Davis Proteinaholic. Just the deleterious effects of an overabundance of heme iron (only in animal products) is a problem. Dr. Davis is a bariatric surgeon. The reason why it's easier absorbed is because it doesn't contain fiber. Everyone and their brother seems to be concerned with protein but the fact is the average American diet is fiber deficient. The combination of these two things, overconsumption of animal protein plus a lack of fiber is playing a nasty role in the increase we are seeing in colon cancer. There are conflicting opinions. Many doctors now say that we do need more protein, especially as we age. I am not an expert in vegan health but I have heard podcasts where people say they were vegans for years and felt really good. Until they didn’t. I don’t think it is the be all and end all of health like vegans/plant based people seem to think it is but if it is working for you, that’s great. I just find it interesting that plant based people don’t want to be asked about protein or other comments from meat eaters, yet have no problems saying things to voice their opinion that plant eaters are superior to others, whether in health or in those case, cost to the environment. Fiber may play a part but some plant sources of protein are not complete protein sources, which also leads to needing to have more of it to get the adequate protein amounts. I was referring to the comment about meat not being an efficient source of protein, which doesn’t seem to be true. |
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Post by freecharlie on Sept 21, 2024 16:21:23 GMT
It will not because I like what I like to eat.
I do buy locally (beef from a friend, eggs often locally unless I need them immediately or later at night, pork I share a pig with my parent, milk delivered from a local dairy) what I can.
I try to minimize my impact (solar panels, electric car, compost,...) where it fits into my lifestyle
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Post by katlady on Sept 21, 2024 16:26:13 GMT
You have to eat a lot more of plant products to get the same amount of protein load as animal products. Vegetables are less dense than meat, so you would need to eat more vegetables to get the same amount of protein from the meat. But the benefit of not eating meat is the reduced risk of cardiovascular diseases. Many doctors now say that we do need more protein, especially as we age. Yes, I've heard this too. You need more protein as a 50 year old than you do as a 30 year old in order to maintain your muscle and bone strength. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 21, 2024 16:44:33 GMT
iamkristinl16 said: I just find it interesting that plant based people don’t want to be asked about protein or other comments from meat eaters, yet have no problems saying things to voice their opinion that plant eaters are superior to others, whether in health or in those case, cost to the environment I think this is you projecting onto others. If you'd like to debate and share, go ahead. That's what this thread is for. I also am not the picture of health either (for example, I'm currently 5 months smoke free and that is far worse than eating Oreos all day probably). I also am not all or nothing. I went camping last week and ate all the things. But your comment here is defensive. No one here has asserted any measure of superiority. You can ask me all you like about protein. The normal range for protein in the blood is 6-8 g/dL. I saw a dietician last summer. She insisted on protein, protein, protein. After 5-6 months of animal protein 3 meals a day my January blood work protein level was 7. I ate plant based breakfast/lunch and 2 dinners a week from January - June. And then in June went full on plant based 100%. My blood was drawn 9/6. I did not focus on or track protein because I wanted to see what would happen doing nothing else but eating plant based. My protein level was 6.8. We shall see where I'm at in January. I also would welcome statistics that could make me feel better about the environmental impact of animal agriculture. Because I have yet to find any article/study that does not show its environmentally harmful. I have read a lot of books. I started with Dr. Michael Gregor's How Not to Diet. The book is like 5" thick. He goes over thousands up on thousands of nutritional studies. He is completely non-profit. His books he donates all proceeds to charity. He's got no stake in the outcome of any of these studies. (Beef and dairy cannot say the same.) His website nutrition facts.org is very comprehensive and he has a podcast that you may find interesting. Out of every single thing I have read and questioned, I can find it on Dr. Gregor's nutrition facts website. This is where the vast majority of my information comes from. If you question anything that I have said, I'm happy to give you more information. On the flip side, I'd like more information on plant based eaters who suffered ill health and animal products were the cure. I'd love for you to share if you would. Because as I explore this avenue of eating, i am pretty open-minded about the outcome and being monitored regularly by my doctor. I'd love to have some caution about what to look for as far as negative effects.
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Post by katlady on Sept 21, 2024 17:09:33 GMT
I also would welcome statistics that could make me feel better about the environmental impact of animal agriculture. Because I have yet to find any article/study that does not show its environmentally harmful. Farming has a lot of impact on the environment too. In the past, changing farming practices focused on increasing yield to meet growing demands. In some cases, crop yields have doubled. But some of these practices have also had negative environmental impacts. Some of the adverse effects include:
Degraded soil and water resources
Elevated greenhouse gas levels
Loss of ecosystem services
Altered biogeochemical cycleswww.agronomy.org/about-agronomy/environmental-impactsAnd almonds, which provide a lot of protein, need tons of water to grow. The huge amount of water spent on almond production has also affected aquatic biodiversity. With rivers being diverted to support the growth in cultivation, the wild salmon population has been significantly affected.blog.mdpi.com/2023/02/01/almonds-health-sustainability/#:~:text=Water%20usage&text=The%20huge%20amount%20of%20water,population%20has%20been%20significantly%20affected. |
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 21, 2024 17:26:53 GMT
katlady I have read both those links before. This is what I meant when I said this above: Even the highly criticized almond farming using crap tons of water doesn't compare to the water usage of raising livestock. The article compares the plant based proteins of tofu and chickpeas. And you can see they aren't even close. There are concerns about fertilizers and pesticides but there are also natural options and they still don't get close to the amount of environmental damage as animal waste. There are also questions about diversity of crops for soil regeneration, but this is still doable with skills training. 80% of the crops we grow are to feed animals. There are a lot of new developments in farming plant based agriculture. And this is necessary. Plants are necessary. But I'm not convinced that animal agriculture is a necessity at all, let alone with the kind of uptick we have had in the meat/cheese consumption (see Salt, Sugar, Fat). That uptick alone doesn't make me feel good. Apparently we were doing fine at certain levels of consumption until the government and the beef and dairy lobby decided to intervene. Even if we reduced our consumption by half, it would make a difference. I don't think a plant based diet is the be all, end all. But I cannot justify to myself, for myself, to consume animal products multiple times a day, week after week.
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Post by katlady on Sept 21, 2024 17:37:49 GMT
But I cannot justify to myself, for myself, to consume animal products multiple times a day, week after week. I am a meat eater. I don't eat a lot, but I eat maybe 1/2 pound a day spread out between lunch and dinner. If I have beef/pork for one meal, we will have chicken for the other meal. I could not become fully vegetarian. I try not to eat cheese, so I need food that fills me up. Eating just vegetables makes me hungry too soon. And I don't want to fill up with carbs. |
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,921
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Sept 21, 2024 17:40:52 GMT
Personally, I find I need a little animal protein in the form of beef and fish but not a huge amount. I went vegetarian in my late teens and early 20s and have never been sicker. I've worked out what my body does well on, and what it struggles to process.
I love hummus and chickpea products, but if I eat them, I rival a cow's methane production. I can manage tofu in small doses but it doesn't sit well. Modern, mucked-about-with wheat upsets me, but I can manage small amounts of the old fashioned wheats like rye and spelt. I am not gluten-free. Milk is a complete no-no for me, but I can get away with small amounts of hard sheep's and goats' cheeses. Since my cancers I find that I tolerate chicken less well than I used to.
I believe that eating good quality, local and seasonal are key to sustaining myself, my family and the environment most efficiently. Maintaining my own health so that I can work proficiently, limit my drain on the medical system, and have enough energy left to volunteer and reduce/reuse/recycle is my idea of doing my small part in giving back to the earth.
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Post by jeremysgirl on Sept 21, 2024 17:50:31 GMT
But I cannot justify to myself, for myself, to consume animal products multiple times a day, week after week. I am a meat eater. I don't eat a lot, but I eat maybe 1/2 pound a day spread out between lunch and dinner. If I have beef/pork for one meal, we will have chicken for the other meal. I could not become fully vegetarian. I try not to eat cheese, so I need food that fills me up. Eating just vegetables makes me hungry too soon. And I don't want to fill up with carbs. I eat a lot of beans, lentils, tofu. I make sure I have one of the above at dinner time. I also eat primarily whole grains. My breakfast is 1/3 c rolled oats, 2/3 c soy milk, 1 Tablespoon each of flax seeds, hemp seeds, and chia seeds. And then I either add a bunch of blueberries or a mashed banana. My oatmeal alone is over 20 grams of protein and it fills me up for hours. I have lost 12.6 pounds the past 15 weeks without limiting anything. It's been an interesting experiment. |
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Post by katlady on Sept 21, 2024 18:24:46 GMT
I have lost 12.6 pounds the past 15 weeks without limiting anything. It's been an interesting experiment. Congratulations! That is awesome! |
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Our lasagna was made with spinach, and never with meat. DH once tried to throw in plant based meat and my kids were like "What the heck did you do to the lasagna??" 
And he never tried that again.
