|
Post by imkat on Oct 10, 2024 21:30:33 GMT
I have a 59 year old friend who was laid off recently due to offshoring. He is a graphic artist who is talented, hardworking, and truly a joy to work with. He has been looking for months and has gotten close a few times, but no job offer. He is high energy and comes across as younger, but you have to put your DOB on each application. We all believe he is the victim of ageism. Any advice?
|
|
|
Post by revirdsuba99 on Oct 10, 2024 21:44:47 GMT
Hard! How long was he with his former employer? Is his former employer not giving him good reviews/references?
Could he use long term employment. Bring in loyal, hard working, here for the long haul etc..
|
|
|
Post by Merge on Oct 10, 2024 22:06:49 GMT
Networking. It’s the only good way to get jobs these days. No application before the interview and thus no age listed until you’re hired.
He needs to be telling everyone he knows that he’s looking, keep a card with a QR code to his CV on him at all times, and attend industry events and mixers where he can meet new people. Also, make sure that his LinkedIn is up to date and shows him at his best. Increase connections there as much as possible and post relevant info/work examples to keep himself in people's feeds.
Good luck!
|
|
bethany102399
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,661
Oct 11, 2014 3:17:29 GMT
|
Post by bethany102399 on Oct 10, 2024 22:07:18 GMT
but you have to put your DOB on each application. fellow graphic designer who has been looking for the past 13 months. I've NEVER put my DOB on an application, are you in the states? I guess if they were doing a background check then that comes into play but as for out of the gate? no way. I'm sorry, it's awful out there. 13 months, 1,000+ applications I finally, finally had a good interview today. I've been averaging 1 per month but have been ghosted, scammed (attempted) multiple times, gotten calls from recruiters about gigs wildly outside my skillset etc. it's been so demoralizing. hugs and good thoughts to your friend. I know how hard it is.
|
|
Tearisci
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,247
Nov 6, 2018 16:34:30 GMT
|
Post by Tearisci on Oct 10, 2024 22:15:27 GMT
I changed jobs a year and a half ago when my company restructured. I didn't fill out an application but sent my resume and a cover letter to the new job. I graduated from college in my 40s (57 now) so I think that makes a difference when I was looking. People just assumed I was younger than I am.
I had a good first interview, but I'm the oldest person in the company and my co-workers are my son's age.
I would not put down a date of birth. I'm surprised they can ask that on an application. Maybe he should look for jobs looking for experience first rather than an age.
I know it's tough out there are I looked for a few months before I found my current position.
|
|
|
Post by epeanymous on Oct 10, 2024 22:57:15 GMT
I don't know how to get around the date of birth. The tips I was going to offer were things like "don't include jobs past 15 years on your resume" and "leave the dates off of your degrees," but those things don't help much if they know how old you are to begin with.
|
|
|
Post by littlemama on Oct 11, 2024 0:17:44 GMT
I don't know how to get around the date of birth. The tips I was going to offer were things like "don't include jobs past 15 years on your resume" and "leave the dates off of your degrees," but those things don't help much if they know how old you are to begin with. It's also really tough if you stayed at a recent job for a long time. Ive been at my current job 3-1/2 years, but was at my previous job for 17 years. Cant really cut it off at 15 years
|
|
Rhondito
Pearl Clutcher
MississipPea
Posts: 4,853
Jun 25, 2014 19:33:19 GMT
|
Post by Rhondito on Oct 11, 2024 0:24:02 GMT
I have a friend who is going through this. He's 54. He just went through eight interviews with a company, then they flew him to their HQ to for him to do more interviews and powerpoint presentations all day. The preparation took two weeks. When he met with the owner, he kept asking him what his long term plans were because the owner himself planned to retire at 60. My friend told him he had no plans of retiring that early, he wanted to work as long as he could. He didn't get the job and he feels it was absolutely because of his age.
|
|
paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,109
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
|
Post by paget on Oct 11, 2024 0:55:22 GMT
My dh is 56 and his search is not going well but he’s only been looking for a little over a month.
|
|
|
Post by AussieMeg on Oct 11, 2024 7:06:22 GMT
This makes me really sad. People our age (I'm 57) still have a lot to offer employers. We went through the process of looking for a new employee for our customer service team earlier this year. My ideal candidate - if I were allowed to put this in the job ad - would be a woman aged 50-62. Yes, I specifically wanted an older person woman. My current team members range in age from 51 - 66yo. Putting the DOB on the job applications wasn't a requirement. In fact, it might be actively disallowed here? But the age of each applicant was fairly easy to work out, based on their work history. If their first job was in 1986, for example, then you could assume they were around 17-18 in 1986 if they started work straight out of high school, or around 22 if they had gone to university (so 56-60yo now). My first choice was an internal candidate who was in her early 60s. Unfortunately she took another job in one of our sites closer to her home. We ended up with someone in her 30s, and she lasted two months.
|
|
|
Post by kristi521 on Oct 11, 2024 12:44:19 GMT
Networking. It’s the only good way to get jobs these days. No application before the interview and thus no age listed until you’re hired. He needs to be telling everyone he knows that he’s looking, keep a card with a QR code to his CV on him at all times, and attend industry events and mixers where he can meet new people. Also, make sure that his LinkedIn is up to date and shows him at his best. Increase connections there as much as possible and post relevant info/work examples to keep himself in people's feeds. Good luck! This is very good advice. This job market is like nothing I have ever seen. I am sorry your friend is going through this.
|
|
|
Post by needmysanity on Oct 11, 2024 13:30:24 GMT
I'm 55 and recently changed jobs. I had two job offers within 2 weeks. I think part of be being able to get a job that quickly is I don't look 55. I go out of my way to NOT look 55 because I was afraid of the agism factor. I did all the other stuff to my resume (no dates on college, etc) and I recently had it updated to include the most recent jargon and layout.
It's not against the law to ask for DOB on an application; however, I would question the integrity of a company that still requires it.
|
|
|
Post by bossymom on Oct 11, 2024 19:11:34 GMT
I go out of my way to NOT look 55 because I was afraid of the ageism factor. Same. I am 58 and my state contract may be ending. I color my hair, take collagen and am blessed with my mother's skin - she had very few wrinkles. My sister is looking and she doesn't spruce herself up, no makeup, frumpy clothes, hair pulled back into a limp ponytail. People think she's the eldest. Unfortunately it makes a difference in the working world. And she's not getting past the first interview.
|
|
|
Post by Laurie on Oct 11, 2024 20:02:13 GMT
I didn’t think dob could be asked on an application similar to gender and race.
I have the opposite problem here. At our business we need production workers and really only want applicants over the age of 40. Younger than that leave before the time they start getting to the quoted efficiency. They also seem to be the most sickly generation as well 😏
|
|
|
Post by Layce on Oct 11, 2024 22:45:12 GMT
Yeahhh.. OP you need to look that up. Age is absolutely not required as are other questions like marital status, children, anything like that. Potential employers are not allowed to ask!
If he's using a resume it needs to be professional and not give any info that could be used to determine his age. That type of thing.
So maybe you could help him.
|
|
|
Post by allison1954 on Oct 11, 2024 23:46:38 GMT
There is no federal law that keeps employers from asking any of those things. look it up
Employers are not allowed to discriminate in hiring based on those factors, but truly it is hard to prove
|
|
amysolovay
Full Member
Posts: 343
Sept 4, 2022 6:25:20 GMT
|
Post by amysolovay on Oct 25, 2024 21:07:41 GMT
How is it going for your friend, imkat? Has he found a job yet? I hope so!
I worry that it is going to be really tough for him, because increasing numbers of people are using AI to do their graphic design instead of paying someone. Is there any possibility that he could do a career change?
I'm in the same boat. I've been working as a freelance writer, and I'm having a much harder time finding work now than I ever used to. Part of it might be ageism; I wouldn't rule that out. But I think a huge part of it is just a reduction in demand for my services because now AI can "write" articles.
|
|
|
Post by imkat on Oct 29, 2024 9:22:29 GMT
How is it going for your friend, imkat? Has he found a job yet? I hope so! I worry that it is going to be really tough for him, because increasing numbers of people are using AI to do their graphic design instead of paying someone. Is there any possibility that he could do a career change? I'm in the same boat. I've been working as a freelance writer, and I'm having a much harder time finding work now than I ever used to. Part of it might be ageism; I wouldn't rule that out. But I think a huge part of it is just a reduction in demand for my services because now AI can "write" articles. No he has not found a job. He has been looking for a year. He just had final interviews with two top companies, but no job offer. I do see your point about AI. Before the layoffs, he was involved in an AI related project, so he is savvy about how it can be used as a tool for graphics. Good luck with your freelancing. What types of projects/companies are you having the most success with?
|
|
amysolovay
Full Member
Posts: 343
Sept 4, 2022 6:25:20 GMT
|
Post by amysolovay on Oct 29, 2024 14:25:33 GMT
How is it going for your friend, imkat? Has he found a job yet? I hope so! I worry that it is going to be really tough for him, because increasing numbers of people are using AI to do their graphic design instead of paying someone. Is there any possibility that he could do a career change? I'm in the same boat. I've been working as a freelance writer, and I'm having a much harder time finding work now than I ever used to. Part of it might be ageism; I wouldn't rule that out. But I think a huge part of it is just a reduction in demand for my services because now AI can "write" articles. No he has not found a job. He has been looking for a year. He just had final interviews with two top companies, but no job offer. I do see your point about AI. Before the layoffs, he was involved in an AI related project, so he is savvy about how it can be used as a tool for graphics. Good luck with your freelancing. What types of projects/companies are you having the most success with? I really hope he will find a suitable role ASAP! But if he can't, there are massive opportunities out there for people who have graphic design skills. There's a lot of money to be made with digital products, and there has been an explosion in the number of places where people can sell digital downloads on the internet. An old favorite is Istockphoto, but there are lots of new ones, too -- Gumroad and Ko-Fi come to mind, but there are many, many others beyond those. If he's already learned the Canva platform, he could design Canva templates; if he hasn't, now could be a great time (while he has down time with no employer obligations) to mess around with learning that platform. I see increasing numbers of job postings that require Canva skills, so I've been working on learning it, myself. I keep myself busy with personal projects when I hit the inevitable dry spells with freelancing. My goal is to become my own best client. I write for media companies, digital marketing agencies and private individuals. I've had doctors and even a couple of celebrities as clients. I prefer to ghostwrite, but there are times I'll put my own by-line on client work -- usually if it's related to my areas of professional expertise, which are business management, manufacturing, textiles, fashion, design and DIY / crafts. It used to be that digital marketing agencies were my best clients. Their clients were mostly in the education, tech and travel verticals, but they had clients across all niches. I think much of that work is now being done by AI. I think there are still opportunities at the cutting edge in the tech sector, because AI can't yet "understand" new tech that doesn't yet exist or is just now being brought into existence. I believe most of this work is being done in-house and not by freelancers, so I will probably have to abandon the freelance life and take an 8-5 job. I'll gladly do that if I can find the right opportunity. But if not, I'll just keep working on my own projects with a goal of earning more at them than I ever did from client work.
|
|
|
Post by hopechest on Oct 29, 2024 20:46:39 GMT
I'm 53 and my DH is 55. After his latest 2 year unemployment stint, we made sure to start in a business that we could be independent if need be. Right now we are both working for a company, but know that could end tomorrow. We could be up and running independently in a very short time. My best advice for anyone 45 or older is to build up your own business if at all possible.
|
|
|
Post by peasapie on Oct 30, 2024 0:49:55 GMT
They can’t ask you birth date until after hiring. On his CV, he should avoid listing anything that would “date” him, such as years graduated, etc. I agree networking is helpful if at all possible. And he might consider being a consultant independently in his field. They often earn the same or more than they would as an employee.
|
|
amysolovay
Full Member
Posts: 343
Sept 4, 2022 6:25:20 GMT
|
Post by amysolovay on Oct 30, 2024 10:13:32 GMT
I'm 53 and my DH is 55. After his latest 2 year unemployment stint, we made sure to start in a business that we could be independent if need be. Right now we are both working for a company, but know that could end tomorrow. We could be up and running independently in a very short time. My best advice for anyone 45 or older is to build up your own business if at all possible. I think this is prudent advice!
|
|
|
Post by allison1954 on Oct 30, 2024 13:50:05 GMT
They can’t ask you birth date until after hiring. On his CV, he should avoid listing anything that would “date” him, such as years graduated, etc. I agree networking is helpful if at all possible. And he might consider being a consultant independently in his field. They often earn the same or more than they would as an employee. This is NOT correct info. They can definitely ask. What they are not allowed to do is use it to discriminate. But being able to prove it is another thing from the Equal Opportunity website Can you ask for someone's date of birth? While asking an applicant for his or her date of birth (DOB) is not unlawful, how the employer uses that information might
|
|
amysolovay
Full Member
Posts: 343
Sept 4, 2022 6:25:20 GMT
|
Post by amysolovay on Oct 30, 2024 14:18:24 GMT
They can’t ask you birth date until after hiring. On his CV, he should avoid listing anything that would “date” him, such as years graduated, etc. I agree networking is helpful if at all possible. And he might consider being a consultant independently in his field. They often earn the same or more than they would as an employee. This is NOT correct info. They can definitely ask. What they are not allowed to do is use it to discriminate. But being able to prove it is another thing from the Equal Opportunity website Can you ask for someone's date of birth? While asking an applicant for his or her date of birth (DOB) is not unlawful, how the employer uses that information mightBeyond that, they don't even have to ask about your date of birth directly. Some prospective employers ask to review college / university transcripts. Using the info from those, it wouldn't take a genius to figure out how old you are (unless, of course, you earned your degree later in life than is typical).
|
|