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Post by leftturnonly on Nov 8, 2024 20:32:29 GMT
The difficulties of real life 2024 have taken precedence over the rhetoric for most of the country. For many years I've been told by y'all that border concerns aren't real. You've come up with all kinds of talking points to try to put me in my place. Instead of being intellectually curious enough to consider what people who are suffering are saying, the latest talking point is that Hispanic men are misogynistic. How else to explain the voting shift in the counties along the southern border of Texas between the last two presidential elections?   Believe whatever you want to believe. Listen to whomever you choose to listen to. Me, I'm still enjoying our 1st Amendment and the ability to freely listen to the thoughts and ideas of our fellow citizens who are not beholden to big money despite the ongoing efforts by Democrat politicians and Pfizer-paid, old-school media outlets to shut down at all costs anyone who doesn't talk the talk, and who are therefore free to take the lengthy time it takes to show speeches and legal documents in their entirety, going through them point by point. The contrast with what I've seen and what major media allows to be expressed explains the shock of the Trump win(s) entirely. None of the results of this election surprise me. Maybe, just maybe, getting out of the echo chambers some of you still subject yourselves to might be a good thing. Instead of assuming you know why people who have different perspectives than you believe as they do, it might be beneficial for you to actually listen when people tell you that they can't afford to feed their families, or fill up their vehicles, or pay their rent. When they tell you that their entire towns were swept away and FEMA not only didn't respond immediately but actively tried to keep others from getting in to rescue and bring other aid, you may come to understand that the reasons they did not vote for Kamala Harris for president may have absolutely nothing to do with her gender or her skin color or whether or not their daughters can get an abortion sometime in the future. I didn't post to start an argument. You can refute my comments unimpeded by me to your hearts content or ignore them completely. The 1st amendment is a grand and glorious freedom. Enjoy it. |
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Post by dnkmmw on Nov 8, 2024 20:56:43 GMT
Instead of assuming you know why people who have different perspectives than you believe as they do, it might be beneficial for you to actually listen when people tell you that they can't afford to feed their families, or fill up their vehicles, or pay their rent. I have yet to understand what Trump is going to do to fix these financial concerns. Maybe I overlooked it. I would love to understand. What resonated with me is Elon Musk saying that we need to be prepared to be uncomfortable for a while. Does Elon understand how little money it takes for most American to be in an uncomfortable financial situation? And this discomfort is going to help people afford to feed their families and fill up their vehicles? I truly want to understand how this is going to work, and it would put my mind at ease if you would explain it. The 1st amendment is a grand and glorious freedom. I'm a little lost on this too, so no more banning books? |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,241 
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Post by pantsonfire on Nov 8, 2024 21:00:23 GMT
leftturnonly do you have a break down of minority and majority as far as men to women and white, black, Hispanic, etc for the areas that turned from blue to red? I'm curious because there was a large increase of Hispanic males that voted for Trump. Being border counties, was the majority male and Hispanic? I ask because it could have nothing to do with the border issue and way more to do with Hispanic males typically voting Republican and being blue collar workers who fed into the lies of Republican rhetoric about job stability and loss of wages.
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pinklady
Drama Llama
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Post by pinklady on Nov 8, 2024 21:02:37 GMT
When they tell you that their entire towns were swept away and FEMA not only didn't respond immediately but actively tried to keep others from getting in to rescue and bring other aid, Keep vomitting the debunked FOX news narrative. |
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pantsonfire
Drama Llama
Take a step back, evaluate what is important, and enjoy your life with those who you love.
Posts: 6,241
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Post by pantsonfire on Nov 8, 2024 21:05:45 GMT
When they tell you that their entire towns were swept away and FEMA not only didn't respond immediately but actively tried to keep others from getting in to rescue and bring other aid, Keep vomitting the debunked FOX news narrative. I think she forgot it was Trump who slowed FEMA down. |
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Post by Mel on Nov 8, 2024 21:24:21 GMT
About the disaster aid... I personally know someone who lived in one of the towns that was on the news as being "swept away", and how they bashed FEMA & other aid providers, and I'll tell you right now, it's NOT true. FEMA was there as soon as it was safe for them to be there (within hours), and they were doing all they could to physically help even before the money rolled in. That didn't make the news because the story that they weren't there was way more captivating than knowing that they were there helping pull people from mudslides, dig families out of homes that had been swept off of the foundations, pulling pets out of water filled properties. What good would $$$ have done in the early hours or days anyway?? There were NO supplies, there was NO power, there was NO way to even reach some of the people who needed help until other people came to help get to them. FEMA was there... people were there... once the food and supplies started coming they started the task of "recovery" the way everyone thinks they didn't.
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breetheflea
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,582
Location: PNW
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Post by breetheflea on Nov 8, 2024 21:28:18 GMT
Keep vomitting the debunked FOX news narrative. I think she forgot it was Trump who slowed FEMA down. Trump slowed down $$$ in Washington State for wildfires because he doesn't like our democrat governor. |
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 3,018
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Nov 8, 2024 21:42:15 GMT
I am not in an echo chamber. I live in a very red area. I understand why people are concerned. Liberals are concerned too. What I don't understand is why they think Trump is the person to do anything sensible to help that...and in most cases, what he wants to do is cruel and/or very short-sighted and possibly (based on things he has actually said) constitutionally questionable and possibly the antitheses of Democracy. Everyone is flawed. I also get that. There is no perfect candidate, but we hold virtually every other person in the world to certain standards that Trump seems to be able to avoid. I did understand, to a point, how he won the first time; what I cannot comprehend is that knowing what we know (and anyone who thinks all of it is made up charges, overblown and "just hyperbole" is not living in any kind of reality) the Republicans have made him into this savior figure.
Many of us have really really tried to understand. I am still trying. We have fears too. Our fears are legitimate as well.
Explain to me, with some sort of real evidence...not a "feeling" that Trump gives you, as to why you think HE will solve any of these problems while not making more problems. Like "round up the illegals, put them in camps and ship them out." I guess that sounds good to some people? Ok, but what about how that will affect our farm and construction economy? Prices will go up. Houses will become even more scarce. People will be living in camps for months or years costing taxpayers billions. Innocent people will be caught up in it. Families will be torn apart and those border communities we are worried about, will be witness to this. Decimating communities, schools, etc..
My issue isn't with "you" having fears, not liking Democratic platforms, not liking Biden/Harris, my issue has always been with how, knowing all that we know, the party chose HIM again.
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The Great Carpezio
Pearl Clutcher
Something profound goes here.
Posts: 3,018
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Post by The Great Carpezio on Nov 8, 2024 21:44:20 GMT
And the FEMA thing is BS. What more would Trump have done based on what you saw from him in his first presidency? Legit question.
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Post by Zee on Nov 8, 2024 22:04:12 GMT
I eagerly await the low prices and lowered overall costs and the jump in my paycheck that you red voters expect to happen!
I'll be delighted to be proven wrong that Trump doesn't give two shits about what the "little guy" can afford or not.
Y'all had four years as well... Let's see if another four will be enough. I'll be the first to thank you.
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 8, 2024 22:48:48 GMT
All the related people, governors, representatives call the reports of lack of FEMA response NOT TRUE. FEMA was in the Carolinas on the ground ASAP. They are still.
There were men in pickup trucks SHOOTING at FEMA workers.
As to the border. I never have said there wasn't a problem there. It has been a problem FOR YEARS!. Yes, 13,000 criminals have come over the borders before Bush until now.. Not only the Biden years.
ALL of Congress has neglected doing anything about the border for years.
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Post by mollycoddle on Nov 8, 2024 22:53:05 GMT
I am not in an echo chamber. I live in a very red area. I understand why people are concerned. Liberals are concerned too. What I don't understand is why they think Trump is the person to do anything sensible to help that...and in most cases, what he wants to do is cruel and/or very short-sighted and possibly (based on things he has actually said) constitutionally questionable and possibly the antitheses of Democracy. Everyone is flawed. I also get that. There is no perfect candidate, but we hold virtually every other person in the world to certain standards that Trump seems to be able to avoid. I did understand, to a point, how he won the first time; what I cannot comprehend is that knowing what we know (and anyone who thinks all of it is made up charges, overblown and "just hyperbole" is not living in any kind of reality) the Republicans have made him into this savior figure. Many of us have really really tried to understand. I am still trying. We have fears too. Our fears are legitimate as well. Explain to me, with some sort of real evidence...not a "feeling" that Trump gives you, as to why you think HE will solve any of these problems while not making more problems. Like "round up the illegals, put them in camps and ship them out." I guess that sounds good to some people? Ok, but what about how that will affect our farm and construction economy? Prices will go up. Houses will become even more scarce. People will be living in camps for months or years costing taxpayers billions. Innocent people will be caught up in it. Families will be torn apart and those border communities we are worried about, will be witness to this. Decimating communities, schools, etc.. My issue isn't with "you" having fears, not liking Democratic platforms, not liking Biden/Harris, my issue has always been with how, knowing all that we know, the party chose HIM again. Exactly. Why a man like Trump? |
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scrapngranny
Pearl Clutcher
Only slightly senile
Posts: 4,858
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Post by scrapngranny on Nov 8, 2024 23:22:52 GMT
All I can say about Texas is, y’all had a chance to vote on whether or to ban all abortions and, what happened the majority voted to keep the ban in place. The next time I see a sob story on the news about a young woman dying because she couldn’t get an abortion she needed to save life, I won’t shed a tear.
Who will you blame when all of the Orange Idiot’s promises don’t come to pass, or they affect you or your family in a negative way?
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pilcas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by pilcas on Nov 8, 2024 23:29:30 GMT
I have come to believe that those who are so enthralled with him and refuse to acknowledge what he says and has done are, deep down inside, very much like him. He calls to peoples lowest, meanest instincts and they answer gleefully.
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Post by MichyM on Nov 8, 2024 23:56:36 GMT
I have come to believe that those who are so enthralled with him and refuse to acknowledge what he says and has done are, deep down inside, very much like him. He calls to peoples lowest, meanest instincts and they answer gleefully. Mic drop. I no longer give anyone who voted for him the benefit of the doubt. I will also add that one of our "very long time" peas who has come out of the woodwork the last few days IS in fact, very much like him. |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 9, 2024 0:49:50 GMT
All I can say about Texas is, y’all had a chance to vote on whether or to ban all abortions and, what happened the majority voted to keep the ban in place. The next time I see a sob story on the news about a young woman dying because she couldn’t get an abortion she needed to save life, I won’t shed a tear. Who will you blame when all of the Orange Idiot’s promises don’t come to pass, or they affect you or your family in a negative way? A bit harsh on our Texas peas who post almost daily about how they are trying to improve the situation in Texas... |
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Sarah*H
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by Sarah*H on Nov 9, 2024 1:00:56 GMT
May you get exactly what you voted for.
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Post by Texas Scrap on Nov 9, 2024 1:12:25 GMT
All I can say about Texas is, y’all had a chance to vote on whether or to ban all abortions and, what happened the majority voted to keep the ban in place. The next time I see a sob story on the news about a young woman dying because she couldn’t get an abortion she needed to save life, I won’t shed a tear. Who will you blame when all of the Orange Idiot’s promises don’t come to pass, or they affect you or your family in a negative way? A bit harsh on our Texas peas who post almost daily about how they are trying to improve the situation in Texas... Agree. 42% of us (4.8 million) voted for Kamala, so maybe don’t dismiss an entire state or generalize. |
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lindas
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by lindas on Nov 9, 2024 3:44:46 GMT
All the related people, governors, representatives call the reports of lack of FEMA response NOT TRUE. FEMA was in the Carolinas on the ground ASAP. They are still. There were men in pickup trucks SHOOTING at FEMA workers. As to the border. I never have said there wasn't a problem there. It has been a problem FOR YEARS!. Yes, 13,000 criminals have come over the borders before Bush until now.. Not only the Biden years. ALL of Congress has neglected doing anything about the border for years. FEMA may have been there but turns out not for everyone. Avoid homes advertising Trump
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Post by micheley on Nov 9, 2024 3:50:26 GMT
Daily Wire is about as credible as Breitbart and the Washington Examiner.
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Post by cindosha on Nov 9, 2024 3:54:28 GMT
Daily Wire is about as credible as Breitbart and the Washington Examiner. The email is right in front of your face and you are denying it. Hmmmmm… |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Nov 9, 2024 3:58:05 GMT
All I can say about Texas is, y’all had a chance to vote on whether or to ban all abortions and, what happened the majority voted to keep the ban in place. The next time I see a sob story on the news about a young woman dying because she couldn’t get an abortion she needed to save life, I won’t shed a tear. Who will you blame when all of the Orange Idiot’s promises don’t come to pass, or they affect you or your family in a negative way? Just because the majority didn’t vote for it doesn’t mean that everyone did. Also, I don’t know how it went down in Texas but in Florida and Missouri there were some shady antics going on, making the whole thing tainted in my opinion. Luckily Missouri’s passed but there were a lot of people in both places that didn’t want a good faith vote. I also go back to the question of why is it ok for people to have fundamental rights in one state and not the other? |
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Post by revirdsuba99 on Nov 9, 2024 4:22:52 GMT
All the related people, governors, representatives call the reports of lack of FEMA response NOT TRUE. FEMA was in the Carolinas on the ground ASAP. They are still. There were men in pickup trucks SHOOTING at FEMA workers. As to the border. I never have said there wasn't a problem there. It has been a problem FOR YEARS!. Yes, 13,000 criminals have come over the borders before Bush until now.. Not only the Biden years. ALL of Congress has neglected doing anything about the border for years. FEMA may have been there but turns out not for everyone. Avoid homes advertising Trump
I tried to read the piece but all I got was different pages flashing. I did not sign up either. I do not see anything that looked like an email. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 9, 2024 5:38:15 GMT
All the related people, governors, representatives call the reports of lack of FEMA response NOT TRUE. FEMA was in the Carolinas on the ground ASAP. They are still. There were men in pickup trucks SHOOTING at FEMA workers. As to the border. I never have said there wasn't a problem there. It has been a problem FOR YEARS!. Yes, 13,000 criminals have come over the borders before Bush until now.. Not only the Biden years. ALL of Congress has neglected doing anything about the border for years. FEMA may have been there but turns out not for everyone. Avoid homes advertising Trump
CNN — A Federal Emergency Management Agency employee has been removed from her role after she advised her disaster relief team to avoid homes with signs supporting President Donald Trump while canvassing in Florida in the aftermath of Hurricane Milton, the agency said Friday.
A FEMA spokesperson told CNN in a statement the agency is “deeply disturbed by this employee’s actions” and the incident is under investigation. The agency did not identify the employee.
“While we believe this is an isolated incident, we have taken measures to remove the employee from their role and are investigating the matter to prevent this from happening ever again. The employee who issued this guidance had no authority and was given no direction to tell teams to avoid these homes and we are reaching out to the people who may have not been reached as a result of this incident,” the spokesperson said.
The agency is currently investigating how many houses were passed over by the canvassing team as part of the incident that occurred on October 27, the spokesperson told CNN. The agency on Friday deployed a new team to knock on doors in the affected area in an effort to make contact with those who may not have been previously reached.
This was an isolated incident that will be investigated and the employee was removed. I must have missed your reaction to Trump denying aid to California, Washington and Puerto Rico because he did not like the politicians and they were not sufficiently loyal to him. In Trump's case, it came from the top, from him directly. www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/13/trump-disaster-funding-warning‘Vengeful’ Trump withheld disaster aid and will do so again, ex-officials warn
Former administration officials say Trump deliberately denied funds to states he deemed politically hostile
Donald Trump deliberately withheld disaster aid to states he deemed politically hostile to him as US president and will do so again unimpeded if he returns to the White House, several former Trump administration officials have warned.
But former Trump administration officials have said the former president, when in office, initially refused to release federal disaster aid for wildfires in California in 2018, withheld wildfire assistance for Washington state in 2020, and severely restricted emergency relief to Puerto Rico in the wake of the devastating Hurricane Maria in 2017 because he felt these places were not sufficiently supportive of him.
Just last month, Trump signaled that his deal-making over disaster aid would not change if he were president again, warning that he would block assistance to California unless the state’s governor, Gavin Newsom, agreed to deliver more water to farmers. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 9, 2024 6:19:58 GMT
This seems like the best answer I've seen. Especially in light of comments by Trump supporters on this board heathercoxrichardson.substack.com/p/november-8-2024In The New Republic today, Michael Tomasky reinforced that voters chose Trump in 2024 not because of the economy or inflation, or anything else, but because of how they perceived those issues—which is not the same thing. Right-wing media “fed their audiences a diet of slanted and distorted information that made it possible for Trump to win,” Tomasky wrote. Right-wing media has overtaken legacy media to set the country’s political agenda not only because it’s bigger, but because it speaks with one voice, “and that voice says Democrats and liberals are treasonous elitists who hate you, and Republicans and conservatives love God and country and are your last line of defense against your son coming home from school your daughter.”In a social media post, Marcotte wrote: “A lot of voters are profoundly ignorant. More so than in the past.” That jumped out to me because there was, indeed, an earlier period in our history when voters were “pickled in right-wing misinformation and rage.”Today, when I received a slew of messages gloating that Trump had won the election and that Republican voters had owned the libs, I could not help but think of that earlier era when ordinary white men sold generations of economic aspirations for white supremacy and bragging rights.newrepublic.com/post/188197/trump-media-information-landscape-foxWhy Does No One Understand the Real Reason Trump Won? It wasn’t the economy. It wasn’t inflation, or anything else. It was how people perceive those things, which points to one overpowering answer. I’ve had a lot of conversations since Tuesday revolving around the question of why Donald Trump won. The economy and inflation. Kamala Harris didn’t do this or that. Sexism and racism. The border. That trans-inmate ad that ran a jillion times. And so on. These conversations have usually proceeded along lines where people ask incredulously how a majority of voters could have believed this or that. Weren’t they bothered that Trump is a convicted felon? An adjudicated rapist? Didn’t his invocation of violence against Liz Cheney, or 50 other examples of his disgusting imprecations, obviously disqualify him? And couldn’t they see that Harris, whatever her shortcomings, was a fundamentally smart, honest, well-meaning person who would show basic respect for the Constitution and wouldn’t do anything weird as president? The answer is obviously no—not enough people were able to see any of those things. At which point people throw up their hands and say, “I give up.” But this line of analysis requires that we ask one more question. And it’s the crucial one: Why didn’t a majority of voters see these things? And understanding the answer to that question is how we start to dig out of this tragic mess. The answer is the right-wing media. Today, the right-wing media—Fox News (and the entire News Corp.), Newsmax, One America News Network, the Sinclair network of radio and TV stations and newspapers, iHeart Media (formerly Clear Channel), the Bott Radio Network (Christian radio), Elon Musk’s X, the huge podcasts like Joe Rogan’s, and much more—sets the news agenda in this country. And they fed their audiences a diet of slanted and distorted information that made it possible for Trump to win.And the result is what we see today. The readily visual analogy I use is: Once upon a time, the mainstream media was a beachball, and the right-wing media was a golf ball. Today, the mainstream media (what with layoffs and closures and the near death of serious local news reporting) is the size of a volleyball, and the right-wing media is the size of a basketball, which, in case you’re wondering, is bigger. This is the year in which it became obvious that the right-wing media has more power than the mainstream media. It’s not just that it’s bigger. It’s that it speaks with one voice, and that voice says Democrats and liberals are treasonous elitists who hate you, and Republicans and conservatives love God and country and are your last line of defense against your son coming home from school your daughter.
more ignorant
Amanda Marcotte
Ipsos/Reuters poll from last month also proves my point. The more ignorant of basic facts you are, the more you're likely to vote Republican.
ipsos.com/en-us/latest-us-opinion-polls#uselection
Voters backed both Trump and progressive policies like minimum wage hikes and abortion rights. This disconnect is the answer to the "how did this happen" question.
A lot of voters are profoundly ignorant. More so than in the past. I explore why. |
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Post by aj2hall on Nov 9, 2024 6:48:10 GMT
Also regarding first amendment rights, it's interesting that conservatives are up in arms by what they falsely perceive as censorship on social media, owned and run by private companies. But, they're not at all concerned when Trump threatens journalists and broadcast networks. Apparently, government censorship of the media is OK if it's directed at mainstream media. www.npr.org/2024/10/22/nx-s1-5161480/trump-media-threats-abc-cbs-60-minutes-journalistsOn the campaign trail and in interviews, Trump has suggested that if he regains the White House, he will exact vengeance on news outlets that anger him.More specifically, Trump has pledged to toss reporters in jail and strip major television networks of their broadcast licenses as retribution for coverage he didn't like."It speaks directly to the First Amendment — and the First Amendment is a cornerstone of our democracy," Federal Communications Commission Chairwoman Jessica Rosenworcel, a Democrat, tells NPR.www.nytimes.com/2024/10/21/business/media/trump-media-broadcast-licenses.htmlThreatening the news media is nothing new for former President Donald J. Trump. He has accused major news outlets of defamation, blocked journalists from rallies and White House events, goaded followers into profane chants about CNN and popularized the term “fake news,” now embraced by autocrats around the world.Even by those standards, though, his latest anti-media obsession — stripping television networks of their ability to broadcast the news because of coverage he doesn’t like — stands out.“CBS should lose its license,” Mr. Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform last week. “60 Minutes should be immediately taken off the air.” He has repeated his demands in speeches and in interviews, echoing his earlier calls for ABC’s license to be “terminated” because of his displeasure with how the network handled his debate against Vice President Kamala Harris. |
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Post by peano on Nov 9, 2024 8:02:31 GMT
leftturnonly do you have a break down of minority and majority as far as men to women and white, black, Hispanic, etc for the areas that turned from blue to red? I'm curious because there was a large increase of Hispanic males that voted for Trump. Being border counties, was the majority male and Hispanic? I ask because it could have nothing to do with the border issue and way more to do with Hispanic males typically voting Republican and being blue collar workers who fed into the lies of Republican rhetoric about job stability and loss of wages. I believe the Washington Post did a breakdown, but then she would know nothing about this...as she offers the Daily Wire (a multi-Pulitzer winning news...oh wait) Sorry, the article is not giftable. |
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Post by peano on Nov 9, 2024 8:13:29 GMT
Oh, and forgot to answer the question in the post title: Because you're broken people with no ethical or moral core who use multiple rationalizations to justify your thoughts and behaviors rather than dwelling in reality.
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Post by peano on Nov 9, 2024 8:17:04 GMT
And the FEMA thing is BS. What more would Trump have done based on what you saw from him in his first presidency? Legit question. Well, if you're surmising his response from his first presidency, he would have pelted them with rolls of paper towels. Because that's how you treat people respectfully who've just endured a trauma. |
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Post by Merge on Nov 9, 2024 11:32:49 GMT
All I can say about Texas is, y’all had a chance to vote on whether or to ban all abortions and, what happened the majority voted to keep the ban in place. The next time I see a sob story on the news about a young woman dying because she couldn’t get an abortion she needed to save life, I won’t shed a tear. Who will you blame when all of the Orange Idiot’s promises don’t come to pass, or they affect you or your family in a negative way? No. Texas has not been allowed by our GOP overlords to vote on abortion access. Our state doesn’t have a mechanism for citizen led ballot initiatives. And the lege is too heavily gerrymandered R to hope they will ever put abortion on the statewide ballot. They prefer unilateral rule to anything approaching democracy. |
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