sweetpeasmom
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,832 
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Post by sweetpeasmom on Jul 3, 2025 12:55:22 GMT
Thoughts on him taking a plea to avoid the death penalty vs going to trial?
I get why some of the families feel betrayed. I also get why the prosecution did this. They said to avoid the families from having to go through a month long trial and hearing all the evidence and details. I can't imagine how horrible that would have been for them.
My other thought is at least this way he is in jail for life, will never see the light of day. How horrible would it have been for the families if by some chance they were able to prove any doubt and the jury didn't find him guilty? I can't imagine if that had happened. DH and I were talking about it and I told him after the Casey Anthony case, I realize that no matter what we (the court of public opinion think), if the defense does their job, then it's not a slam dunk. Look at the Karen Reed case. I get that's a completely different case and was (IMO) jacked up from the jump. But still. Now there is not justice for O'Keefe. At least for now if they don't look into anyone(s) else.
Just curious if you agree or wish it had gone to trial. |
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Post by littlemama on Jul 3, 2025 13:26:28 GMT
I dont have a problem with it, but I wish he had been made to explain why when sentenced.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jul 3, 2025 14:05:49 GMT
I think the death penalty was the "easy" way out, and I am hoping he will be a target in prison. I do wish he was made to describe his crime in full and offered why he did it, and tell things like what he did with the murder weapon...
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Post by MichyM on Jul 3, 2025 15:53:52 GMT
I feel horribly for the families and understand why they have released the statements they have. I would feel completely betrayed by the justice system. They now will never have the closure they would have had they been able to know the whys behind why he did what he did.
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Post by busy on Jul 3, 2025 16:05:18 GMT
I don't believe in the death penalty, so I think this is an appropriate outcome. He'll be incarcerated for the rest of his life.
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 3, 2025 16:19:35 GMT
I actually was live on the news yesterday doing running commentary and so for better or worse got super familiar.
Two of the four families favored the plea deal. Two did not. Even if the job of the prosecutor were solely to do what the victims wanted, which it is not, there was not a way to do that. The reality of a capital trial is that it would have been a months-long process, and gruesome. After that, there would have been, assuming conviction and a death sentence, decades of appeals. Ethan Chapin’s family specifically said that was not how they wanted to honor their son’s memory.
I think the Goncalvez family has been very vocal (the judge had to admonish the public against continuing to harass court staff with the phone numbers the family posted), and that “grieving family feels justice wasn’t served” is a better headline than “grieving family relieved with result.” I was on live with the news station’s on-site reporter, and after the hearing, he was running after the Goncalves family on foot to try to get a statement. He was not chasing the Chapin and Mogen families, who supported the plea deal. That is telling.
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Post by airforcemomof1 on Jul 3, 2025 16:28:47 GMT
In my opinion he seems like a “lightweight” and might not do well in prison. Maybe that will give the families of the victims reason to accept his plea as the best outcome.
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Post by Bridget in MD on Jul 3, 2025 17:00:38 GMT
I feel horribly for the families and understand why they have released the statements they have. I would feel completely betrayed by the justice system. They now will never have the closure they would have had they been able to know the whys behind why he did what he did. I was thinking, if he plead not guilty and went to trial, would they have gotten the why/motive, esp if he didnt testify? I would assume something would be pieced together, but since he isnt confessing, that would almost be speculation. Now that he is admiting to guilt and will be sentenced, I would have hoped they forced him to confess and give that info to the families. (Maybe they are, but I haven't read anything like that). |
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Post by papersilly on Jul 3, 2025 17:01:15 GMT
i am ok with his plea. it spares the family from a trial where is might have gotten life anyway after all was said and done. i don't think the death penalty was automatic before the plea, was it? this way, he goes straight to jail for life.
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Post by busy on Jul 3, 2025 17:19:54 GMT
I know I'm in a minority on this, but I think wanting to hear his motive is misguided. It's not going to bring any kind of sense to the tragedy or closure to the devastating loss. The reasoning of a depraved mind is never going to be rational to anyone else and can create its own new torture.
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 3, 2025 17:34:05 GMT
i am ok with his plea. it spares the family from a trial where is might have gotten life anyway after all was said and done. i don't think the death penalty was automatic before the plea, was it? this way, he goes straight to jail for life. It isn't. Death penalty trials have two phases. First, he has to be found guilty by a jury. Then, while judges normally do sentencing, in a capital trial, there is basically a second trial where the jury determines sentencing. That's one of many reasons capital trials take so long and are so expensive -- the jurors generally have to be individually interviewed for a variety of reasons, but in particular to make sure they all are willing to consider both a death sentence ("death-qualified") and a life sentence ("life-qualified"). Those jurors then have to sit through a second trial where the state has to prove aggravating factors that qualify the defendant for a death sentence, as well as extensive mitigation evidence from the defense witnesses as to why the defendant shouldn't be sentence to death. The tenor of the plea hearing was that every person on both the prosecution team and defense team knows he is getting four consecutive life sentences and that the defense isn't going to argue to the judge that Kohberger shouldn't get the max (I could be wrong and things could change, but, for example, the defense decided to forego a presentencing investigation, so I'm skeptical they're planning to do anything to try to deviate from the prosecution's proposed sentence). As I mentioned upthread, half the families seem perfectly aware of how awful that process might have been for them, but I'm not sure the other half of the families fully understand what it would be like, in the sentencing phase of a trial, to listen to witness after witness tell the jury reasons why they should not impose a death sentence on this defendant. |
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sueg
Prolific Pea
Posts: 9,140
Location: Munich
Apr 12, 2016 12:51:01 GMT
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Post by sueg on Jul 3, 2025 17:48:39 GMT
I know I'm in a minority on this, but I think wanting to hear his motive is misguided. It's not going to bring any kind of sense to the tragedy or closure to the devastating loss. The reasoning of a depraved mind is never going to be rational to anyone else and can create its own new torture. I agree with you. There is also no guarantee that he’d disclose this at a trial anyway |
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paget
Drama Llama
Posts: 7,461
Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 3, 2025 18:11:13 GMT
I know I'm in a minority on this, but I think wanting to hear his motive is misguided. It's not going to bring any kind of sense to the tragedy or closure to the devastating loss. The reasoning of a depraved mind is never going to be rational to anyone else and can create its own new torture. I agree. To me, nothing said would be helpful. He doesn’t HAVE to say why so maybe he wouldn’t. And anything he said might be true or not. And then you add in the depravity factor as you mentioned. I don’t believe as a loved one I would want to hear anything from him. |
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Post by MichyM on Jul 3, 2025 18:12:33 GMT
I actually was live on the news yesterday doing running commentary and so for better or worse got super familiar. Two of the four families favored the plea deal. Two did not. Even if the job of the prosecutor were solely to do what the victims wanted, which it is not, there was not a way to do that. The reality of a capital trial is that it would have been a months-long process, and gruesome. After that, there would have been, assuming conviction and a death sentence, decades of appeals. Ethan Chapin’s family specifically said that was not how they wanted to honor their son’s memory. I think the Goncalvez family has been very vocal (the judge had to admonish the public against continuing to harass court staff with the phone numbers the family posted), and that “grieving family feels justice wasn’t served” is a better headline than “grieving family relieved with result.” I was on live with the news station’s on-site reporter, and after the hearing, he was running after the Goncalves family on foot to try to get a statement. He was not chasing the Chapin and Mogen families, who supported the plea deal. That is telling. Very sorry I missed your interview on the news, I've seen you speak on (I believe) KING and appreciate your perspectives. I agree with all this, particularly about the "headlines" part. That said, I still cannot help but put myself in the disappointed families' shoes. |
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Post by ntsf on Jul 3, 2025 18:26:28 GMT
I don't believe in the death penalty and also believe in saving money. and there is nothing who will bring these people back.
after working on alcatraz and thinking a lot about prison and punishment.. I became even more anti death penalty.
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Post by littlemama on Jul 3, 2025 18:37:25 GMT
I know I'm in a minority on this, but I think wanting to hear his motive is misguided. It's not going to bring any kind of sense to the tragedy or closure to the devastating loss. The reasoning of a depraved mind is never going to be rational to anyone else and can create its own new torture. I agree with you. There is also no guarantee that he’d disclose this at a trial anyway In this case, I dont think there is a why, so I dont know if hearing that would make anything better or worse for the families. I think it is human nature to want to understand. Upthread I said I wished he had been made to tell why, but I was thinking in terms of what the families might want. I dont need to know, but they might have wanted to. Or not. 🤷🏼♀️ |
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Post by busy on Jul 3, 2025 18:52:21 GMT
My dad wasn’t a murderer but he did commit some horrible crimes that had victims. I never spoke to him after he was arrested but thought I wanted to know the “why” so I could understand. He left his “why” in a suicide note and his reasons made it even worse. I wish I could unknow his explanation.
I’d wager it’s not uncommon to feel that way.
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Post by Zee on Jul 3, 2025 20:05:16 GMT
My dad wasn’t a murderer but he did commit some horrible crimes that had victims. I never spoke to him after he was arrested but thought I wanted to know the “why” so I could understand. He left his “why” in a suicide note and his reasons made it even worse. I wish I could unknow his explanation. I’d wager it’s not uncommon to feel that way. Wait... What? Did we know this about your dad? I'm shocked. I'm sorry. That's a lot. |
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CeeScraps
Pearl Clutcher
~~occupied entertaining my brain~~
Posts: 4,063
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Post by CeeScraps on Jul 3, 2025 20:20:46 GMT
I would like to know the why too.
Apparently at the sentencing the judge will give the parents and Kohberger an opportunity to speak.
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Post by mollycoddle on Jul 3, 2025 20:30:46 GMT
I know I'm in a minority on this, but I think wanting to hear his motive is misguided. It's not going to bring any kind of sense to the tragedy or closure to the devastating loss. The reasoning of a depraved mind is never going to be rational to anyone else and can create its own new torture. I agree with this. He is clearly unhinged, and I would be surprised if he could give a reason that would make the families feel better. I do not like the death penalty, and spending the rest of his life in prison seems like a tough, but just, sentence. Those poor families; my heart goes out to them. |
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Jul 3, 2025 20:33:09 GMT
I think it is a good thing. The court case has been dragging on for years already and if he went to trial it would continue for years to come. Especially appeals. I also don't believe in the death penalty and think living his life in prison would be worse for him. As for the why...I can understand wanting more answers but I can't think of any reason that would make this easier or more understandable for the victims families.
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Post by teddyw on Jul 3, 2025 21:00:13 GMT
I don’t think he would have testified and now the surviving roommates don’t have to testify.
Those girls will never right. I think testifying would be awful for them.
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Post by busy on Jul 3, 2025 21:59:49 GMT
My dad wasn’t a murderer but he did commit some horrible crimes that had victims. I never spoke to him after he was arrested but thought I wanted to know the “why” so I could understand. He left his “why” in a suicide note and his reasons made it even worse. I wish I could unknow his explanation. I’d wager it’s not uncommon to feel that way. Wait... What? Did we know this about your dad? I'm shocked. I'm sorry. That's a lot. I’ve mentioned it in the past, not sure when. I’ve been around the community for over 20 years, so it would have been easy to miss lol It’s not something I talk about a lot. He died in 1999 so it’s been a long time. |
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Post by supersoda on Jul 3, 2025 23:10:16 GMT
When I worked in the DA's office it was typical to offer a life sentence plea in death penalty cases, and more often than not the plea was accepted. From a purely economic perspective, death penalty cases are incredibly expensive and the total cost far outweighs the cost of imprisonment for life.
From an emotional perspective, trial is brutal. It is hard on the families, it is hard on the jurors, and it is hard on every one who works on it. I just don't know that the families can comprehend how emotionally tolling a full trial would be. Details and images come out that the family doesn't necessarily know and doesn't want to know.
The first trial I ever worked as a law student intern on was the capital murder of a 4 year old. I had to prepare the exhibits for the coroner's testimony--autopsy photos. No one needs to see the autopsy photos of their child. Or crime scene photos and evidence. Or hear the forensic evidence of what happened during the crime. I cried on my way home from work every day while working on that case and had nightmares for months. It must be exponentially worse for family members.
So yes, regardless of my own feelings about the death penalty, I think the DA made the right call--particularly if half the families were in favor of the plea deal.
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Post by supersoda on Jul 3, 2025 23:12:42 GMT
busy I am so very sorry. Even with time, that is a big burden to bear. I hope you've found some peace.
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 3, 2025 23:18:17 GMT
Wait... What? Did we know this about your dad? I'm shocked. I'm sorry. That's a lot. I’ve mentioned it in the past, not sure when. I’ve been around the community for over 20 years, so it would have been easy to miss lol It’s not something I talk about a lot. He died in 1999 so it’s been a long time. I think I missed it entirely too. I just want to acknowledge both that it's a heavy burden for you to bear, and that often people think they want to know things when they absolutely will wish they didn't once they do. |
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Post by epeanymous on Jul 3, 2025 23:37:01 GMT
I actually was live on the news yesterday doing running commentary and so for better or worse got super familiar. Two of the four families favored the plea deal. Two did not. Even if the job of the prosecutor were solely to do what the victims wanted, which it is not, there was not a way to do that. The reality of a capital trial is that it would have been a months-long process, and gruesome. After that, there would have been, assuming conviction and a death sentence, decades of appeals. Ethan Chapin’s family specifically said that was not how they wanted to honor their son’s memory. I think the Goncalvez family has been very vocal (the judge had to admonish the public against continuing to harass court staff with the phone numbers the family posted), and that “grieving family feels justice wasn’t served” is a better headline than “grieving family relieved with result.” I was on live with the news station’s on-site reporter, and after the hearing, he was running after the Goncalves family on foot to try to get a statement. He was not chasing the Chapin and Mogen families, who supported the plea deal. That is telling. Very sorry I missed your interview on the news, I've seen you speak on (I believe) KING and appreciate your perspectives. I agree with all this, particularly about the "headlines" part. That said, I still cannot help but put myself in the disappointed families' shoes. I was on KOMO and KIRO this time. I'm going to be back on KIRO live for the sentencing, so if you feel like it, tune in for that  . |
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Post by Zee on Jul 3, 2025 23:55:40 GMT
Wait... What? Did we know this about your dad? I'm shocked. I'm sorry. That's a lot. I’ve mentioned it in the past, not sure when. I’ve been around the community for over 20 years, so it would have been easy to miss lol It’s not something I talk about a lot. He died in 1999 so it’s been a long time. I know you've been here a long time and was surprised I never knew this. Again, you have my sympathy ❤️ |
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Post by busy on Jul 4, 2025 0:01:35 GMT
I’ve mentioned it in the past, not sure when. I’ve been around the community for over 20 years, so it would have been easy to miss lol It’s not something I talk about a lot. He died in 1999 so it’s been a long time. I know you've been here a long time and was surprised I never knew this. Again, you have my sympathy ❤️ Thanks. ❤️ I’m very grateful I’ve had the good fortune to have always had insurance that made therapy accessible. Everyone should. Life can throw us some real shit and professional help to get to the other side shouldn’t be a privilege. |
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Post by lucyg on Jul 4, 2025 0:12:14 GMT
I can tell you all, from the point of view of the surviving family members, there is no consensus on this subject.
After my husband was murdered, I spent the next few years working with other law enforcement families that had their husband/dad/brother/son murdered, and went to court often with them or in their stead if they didn’t want to attend.* There were families out for blood who were devastated if the DA’s office chose not go for the death penalty, and families eager for a plea deal, who just wanted the whole ordeal behind them.
And yes, the trials were always a horrible ordeal. There would be times the family would stay away from court, because the evidence presented, sometimes for days on end, would be so graphic and painful they couldn’t bear to be present. There were defendants who mocked the families in court, even though they weren’t supposed to have any contact. There were family members of the defendants who would sometimes harass our families. There were journalists eager to discuss the day’s testimony with the grieving families.
The families who wanted to go to trial and seek a death penalty were never truly prepared for how awful the whole experience would be.
And that’s not even taking into account the possibility of a hung jury or, worse, an acquittal. My good friends had to watch their son/brother/fiancé’s killer walk away completely free … it had appeared to be an open-and-shut case, but the shooter claimed it was an accident and the jury believed him. They could have convicted him of manslaughter instead, but they chose acquittal.
I believe a deal for a guilty plea and life in prison is always a much better idea than betting on, and suffering through, a trial for capital murder.
*We did not have a trial, for which I have always been grateful, because his murderer was also shot and killed on the scene.
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