carole3k
Junior Member
Posts: 59 
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Post by carole3k on Jan 11, 2015 0:55:55 GMT
I am really struggling with this. I work for the school district which means I am also in a union. We have limited vacation and sick leave. At the beginning of the school year I got bronchitis and I missed a week of school.  In October I had emergency surgery and missed 2 1/2 weeks of work. Because I only work 6 1/2 hours a day, I did not qualify for medical leave so my pay check reflected the missed days without pay. All my sick days and vacation days were used up. I am ok with this. I don't work, I don't get paid! Now for my problem. About 9 months ago we planned a trip to Hawaii. I worked extra hours to make up for the extra couple days I would need off, but all my illness sucked that dry. If I go, I have nothing to fall back on, no vacation or sick. Because I am part of a union, the school district could put me on restriction or discipline without pay. I don't want to get paid while I am gone, I want to take a Leave without pay which is not in our contract. No where in our contract does it say we can't take a leave w/o pay. The rep says if it isn't in there, it doesn't exist. I could just call in sick for those 5 days, but they could ask for a Dr. note. I could call in saying my dd is sick but I would still come home looking a little tanner then normal. I just don't know what to do. Canceling is an option but an expensive one. I don't want to lose my job either. Our trip is in March. Please remember, I do not want to get paid for the days I am taking off, I just want to take days off without potentially losing my job. |
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MDscrapaholic
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Location: Down by the bay....
Jun 25, 2014 20:49:07 GMT
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Post by MDscrapaholic on Jan 11, 2015 1:03:49 GMT
What does your union rep advise?
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Post by LavenderLayoutLady on Jan 11, 2015 1:11:44 GMT
What does your union rep advise? This. But seriously, not a chance in hell I'd be missing the trip. |
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carole3k
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by carole3k on Jan 11, 2015 1:22:58 GMT
I have not said anything to anyone. I am afraid if I do, and then have to call in "sick" they will know the real reason I am gone and that I lied. I don't know if I should say something up front and risk it getting back to HR about why I am really gone or just let it go and call in sick. Sigh. See my dilemma?
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,970
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Post by AnotherPea on Jan 11, 2015 1:24:15 GMT
I second talking to your union rep. And the principal.
If you can't get a straight answer I guess your decision will have to come down to: is the trip worth the risk of losing your job?
I can see both sides, yours and the district's.
Good luck!
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,970
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Post by AnotherPea on Jan 11, 2015 1:26:35 GMT
Guess we posted at the same time.
I'll change my reply to you'll have to decide if the trip is worth getting caught lying about sick days. In my district lying would be grounds for dismissal. Actually getting fired would depend upon how easily they could fill the position.
Adding...I don't think anyone cares if you take a "mental health day" and stay out once in a long while, using sick leave. For us, teachers get docked pay, even if they have vacation and personal time, if they use anything but sick time. Non-certified staff do not. It is because we have to pay for a substitute ourselves. @@ Because of that teachers will sometimes use a sick day for lawyer's visits, getting the car out of the shop, etc. |
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:49:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 1:27:23 GMT
I'm not sure how soon your trip is, but is it possible to still work extra hours?
If not, is be calling out and not missing the trip. And I'm usually a stickler for work. I'd be sure to cover all your bases. If DD isn't going, see if you can schedule her a checkup with her dr so you could get a drs not saying she was seen.
I'd be doing anything that you could somehow get some proof to keep your job and still go.
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tiffanytwisted
Pearl Clutcher
you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave
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Post by tiffanytwisted on Jan 11, 2015 1:28:36 GMT
Agreed - what does your union rep advise?
When I worked for our schools, I also used up all my time quickly and then my 5 yr. old son got chicken pox and had to be out of school for a week. I told the principal I would be taking the days w/out pay and was told we basically can't just decide to to that - it had to be approved. As politely as I could, I repeated that my son was sick and I would be staying home w/him. I realize, of course, that I could have been fired. I wasn't, but they didn't ask me back the following year, so there you go.
If yours works the same way, asking for it ahead of time would allow them to say no and then what do you do.
Not asking and simply calling out sick for 5 days is dicey. I'll admit to doing that for a day, but a week could be tricky and easy for you to get caught (all you need is one staff member knowing and then telling the wrong staff member who rats you out) and then you're back to being in danger of getting fired.
I realize I'm not being much help, but just want you to think everything through before you decide. I wouldn't miss this once in a lifetime vacation, but I would definitely see what your rep recommends.
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kelly8875
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Location: Lost in my supplies...
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Post by kelly8875 on Jan 11, 2015 1:31:22 GMT
You just need to ask. It's part of being a responsible employee.
If they won't 'let' you take the vacation, you'll then have to decide what is more important to you.
I think a reasonable employer would let you take the time off, because you aren't getting paid for it anyway. You've had this vacation booked since before you were sick, right? I think that will help you get the time off.
Just ask. Don't lie...
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zztop11
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,573
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Post by zztop11 on Jan 11, 2015 1:32:13 GMT
Don't you have urgent business leave. Can't you take some kind of family leave without pay. I did that when I was a teacher. When someone asks you why you need to take off, just say it is family business. What does it mean to be put on "restriction or discipline without pay." My mother was also a teacher and she used to tell me that you must also live your life. You planned this months and months ago. I wouldn't worry about the tan. If people ask, just say it was family business. If they still say something, just say it was business in the south. That's it. But I would look into some kind of personal leave. They must have it.
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zztop11
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,573
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Post by zztop11 on Jan 11, 2015 1:32:34 GMT
Don't you have urgent business leave. Can't you take some kind of family leave without pay. I did that when I was a teacher. When someone asks you why you need to take off, just say it is family business. What does it mean to be put on "restriction or discipline without pay." My mother was also a teacher and she used to tell me that you must also live your life. You planned this months and months ago. I wouldn't worry about the tan. If people ask, just say it was family business. If they still say something, just say it was business in the south. That's it. But I would look into some kind of personal leave. They must have it.
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Post by chaosisapony on Jan 11, 2015 1:36:24 GMT
You just need to ask. It's part of being a responsible employee. If they won't 'let' you take the vacation, you'll then have to decide what is more important to you. I think a reasonable employer would let you take the time off, because you aren't getting paid for it anyway. You've had this vacation booked since before you were sick, right? I think that will help you get the time off. Just ask. Don't lie...  Plus, I am a terrible liar anyway. I would wind up ratting myself out to relieve the guilt. It seems like it would turn into way more drama if it got out somehow (social media, friends talking, etc) that you were on vacation after claiming to be sick than to just ask. If they say no then you have choices to make. I am not in the position where I could afford to lose my job over a trip so I would have to cancel. Maybe it's not as big of a deal for you and you could just then politely inform them that you have decided to go on your trip and won't be coming in that week. |
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SabrinaP
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Busy Teacher Pea
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Location: Dallas Texas
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Post by SabrinaP on Jan 11, 2015 1:38:43 GMT
Could you move the dates of the trips instead of canceling, or would that be just as expensive? I would not lie because I need my job. If caught, you will be fired and that is not a risk I would be willing to take. If it couldn't be postponed, I would just go in and explain the situation and see what they say. I would be prepared to cancel (even though it totally sucks), if they will not let you take the days. My job isn't worth the risk of getting fired for a vacation.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 19:49:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 1:44:18 GMT
i wouldn't lie about going. it will end up biting you or at least taint the trip somehow
what are the repercussions for restriction or discipline without pay? can't you just do that?
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amom23
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,635
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Post by amom23 on Jan 11, 2015 1:52:58 GMT
In our district you would have to have permission to take leave without pay. Are you a certified teacher or hold a different position? Based on what you have said if you take this trip you will have missed 4.5 weeks of school this year. That is an awful lot in my opinion. I'd try to rearrange the trip.
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Post by Spongemom Scrappants on Jan 11, 2015 2:01:28 GMT
It's not your "fault" that you had to use so much time for your two previous illnesses... but it's not theirs either. Despite the fact that you planned ahead to have the time to take off for the trip, the unexpected sick leaves ate all that up (and then some, it sounds like). Sometimes, life just sucks and plans don't work out.
I'd have to be upfront with them that I had previously planned the trip and don't want to give it up. If they will not approve the time off without pay, then you have two choices: (1) go anyway and risk your job or (2) cancel (or re-schedule) the trip. I sure wouldn't lie about it though. That would definitely come back to bite you.
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Post by myshelly on Jan 11, 2015 2:04:11 GMT
I don't think it's realistic to expect 4.5 weeks off in a single school year and not face any repercussions.
You can't just decide to take time off without pay.
I wouldn'tie about it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if HR tells you no.
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Deleted
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Aug 18, 2025 19:49:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2015 2:12:29 GMT
I agree with those who say you just have to ask. Despite the fact that you couldn't control being sick, those days combined with this trip add up to a whole heck of a lot of leave in a school year. Personally, I think you should reschedule the trip for a time school is not in session.
If you lie about it, someone is going to find out and that's going to be the worst scenario for your career. We terminate people for pulling that kind of bullshit.
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Post by vpohlman on Jan 11, 2015 2:30:48 GMT
Do you have a negotiated agreement? Our contracts don't say much at all! All of the good vital information is in the negotiated agreement! We have sick days, personal days and professional days in ours. We also have a few bereavement days. We have a small team of teachers who meet with a small team of school board members to create this agreement. Ours will allow us to take extra personal days with the approval of administration and only have to pay the substitute teacher's wages and withholdings. Before we had his clause, we had our paycheck prorated and we got paid for the days we were at school. The new way is much fairer. We also have a sick bank, also negotiated, and if a teacher needs more sick days than she has she may request some from the sick bank. That frees up the personal days and professional days for their correct use.
If you are a member of a union, I would think your school has a negotiated agreement as well as the contract. Our union, NEA, requires it. I'm on the negotiations team here so I know just what it says! Find out if you have one and get a copy.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Post by raindancer on Jan 11, 2015 2:38:09 GMT
I agree with those who say you just have to ask. Despite the fact that you couldn't control being sick, those days combined with this trip add up to a whole heck of a lot of leave in a school year. Personally, I think you should reschedule the trip for a time school is not in session. If you lie about it, someone is going to find out and that's going to be the worst scenario for your career. We terminate people for pulling that kind of bullshit. I agree with this. In fact on a smaller scale I will share a story. Every year for my kids birthday my dh takes them out to breakfast and to go shopping for a gift of their choosing. If that falls on a school day, they get to miss the morning and go late. It's a treat and a tradition. Last week my ds came down with the flu. He missed the entire first week back from break. His birthday is Monday. He turns 11. I told him that I was sorry, but he would have to choose one of the weekend days for b-fast and shopping with dad because he already missed so much school. He was bummed. It's not like he chose to get the flu, or that having the flu was remotely fun for him. But nevertheless, it happened and he understood. He chose to go out today. I can understand the ramifications of moving a trip financially, but at the same time you should have recognized that things happen, particularly if you were counting on time off from work. Refundable tickets, travelers insurance, etc. are options that probably should have been considered. The fact that you didn't do that is not the employers fault. |
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Post by Darcy Collins on Jan 11, 2015 2:42:54 GMT
There's a reason you have limited vacation - you have 3 months of the year to plan a vacation without impacting your job responsibilities and have most of the normal holidays off already. I know that sounds bitchy - but that's the reality of a job tied to the school calendar. You've already missed 3 1/2 weeks of work - and you want more time off? I think our district works something like 32 weeks, so you've already missed more than 10% Frankly if your responsibilities are so limited that you can miss upwards of 15% of the days you are expected to work - paid or not, I don't think you're too essential.
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Post by AnastasiaBeaverhausn on Jan 11, 2015 2:49:40 GMT
I'm a teacher and you lie. You don't ask. The system doesn't work the same as other jobs. We had a teacher who didn't take a single sick or personal business day for over 35 years. He asked for one day off adjacent to a vacation to take his grandkids to Disney the day before spring break began. They said no. 35+ years without a single day off and that was how he was treated? He called in sick and was fine. That taught us all to just call in sick.
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Post by Scrapbrat on Jan 11, 2015 3:02:54 GMT
You just need to ask. It's part of being a responsible employee. If they won't 'let' you take the vacation, you'll then have to decide what is more important to you. I think a reasonable employer would let you take the time off, because you aren't getting paid for it anyway. You've had this vacation booked since before you were sick, right? I think that will help you get the time off. Just ask. Don't lie... I agree with this. I work for the state, and my division isn't unionized but we have lots of civil service rules, etc. a colleague took vacation a couple of years ago, thinking he had enough hours to cover the two weeks. He was a day short, and he got in a bit of trouble when he returned. We cannot just take unpaid time, and that's essential what he'd done. But he was told that if he'd requested the unpaid time off ahead of time, and had it approved, it would have been fine. I think you need to request the unpaid time off. |
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gsquaredmom
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 17:43:22 GMT
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Post by gsquaredmom on Jan 11, 2015 4:09:30 GMT
Be honest and ask or move your vacay.
Integrity cannot be replaced and your reputation and honesty will follow you. If you want to continue to work in schools, especially with children, you must preserve your reputation.
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NoWomanNoCry
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,856
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Post by NoWomanNoCry on Jan 11, 2015 4:12:14 GMT
Jobs are hard to come by. I wouldn't risk making any kind of waves at work. Good luck.
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Post by 950nancy on Jan 11, 2015 4:15:18 GMT
I have worked in the same school district for 28 years. Once in a while when someone lies they get caught and in big trouble. Sometimes people don't get caught. You have to decide what you are willing to live with. You know your district better than we do. I wish we had three months off in the summer. Public perception of the public school teacher's summer is sometimes very wrong.
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Post by katlaw on Jan 11, 2015 4:17:47 GMT
I would never lie and pretend to be sick to go on a trip. Not only could you lose your job but you could also lose the opportunity to ever work for the school district again.
I would talk to your administrator. Explain exactly what you did here, you worked the extra hours so you could go on a trip, you have had 2 unexpected illnesses that have eaten into your time and you want to know if you can go, unpaid and it not affect your job.
With my boss and union what it would boil down to is will it cost them money to replace you? And will it cost them more then you are not taking in salary? For example if they had to pay someone overtime to cover for me I would be told I cannot take unpaid leave for a vacation.
Unfortunately this is not a family emergency so saying it is would be lying.
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Post by moveablefeast on Jan 11, 2015 4:20:55 GMT
Unfortunately, though I work in a tremendously understanding work environment with a lot of grace, missing this much work is enough to cause the administration to wonder what's really going on with a staff member. It could cost a staff member her job.
Schools need consistency to provide their services. This means every employee needs to be there consistently. Things happen - my dad had open heart surgery, another staff member has cancer and missed a month for surgery, another has a spouse with a serious illness and misses sometimes.
We adapt as best we can. But we have at times needed to replace a team member whose life circumstances didn't allow her to be as consistent as was needed.
I have called out sick when not sick. I can't say it is categorically wrong at all times. I think calling out for a week so you can go to Hawaii after missing so much already is really pushing it for these reasons.
If it were me, I would keep it all above board - whether that means getting permission from the administration or rescheduling the trip.
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Post by scrappergonewild on Jan 11, 2015 4:26:49 GMT
I know it sucks you were sick and all that but this is a job. You can't just take extra time off with no pay. You have a responsibility to work. You used your time off so that's that. This is not a family emergency of any kind. To call out with no time off is irresponsible and frankly morally wrong. Life sucks sometimes.
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Post by eebud on Jan 11, 2015 4:51:44 GMT
I always find it interesting when someone wants their union to protect them from the company and negotiate everything for them like their time off and their pay, but then don't want to follow what the union contract allows for and is looking for a way to get around it without any issues, especially when it is not an emergency.
I worked a union job years ago. We had to follow the union contract. It sucked sometimes but that is the way it was. If you didn't have days to take to go on vacation and you took off anyway, then you faced the consequences that were allowed via the contract which was possible termination. Whether or not you were terminated depended on your other history and absences as well as other issues that you might be written up for (being written up for anything other than attendance related things was rare but did happen).
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In October I had emergency surgery and missed 2 1/2 weeks of work. 
