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Post by snowsilver on Feb 3, 2015 20:51:16 GMT
My news feeds and forums are alive with discussion regarding the horrific death of the Jordanian pilot? Almost everyone is hot to do something----but no one seems to have any idea of what should be done. It seems to me the only real response would make us lose our identity--and yet, should we sit back and let this continue?
What do the Peas think? Any ideas of what the West should do?
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 6,225 
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Post by valincal on Feb 3, 2015 21:00:45 GMT
How absolutely tragic and horrifying. His poor family.  Why did they wait a month to release the video? |
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Post by snowsilver on Feb 3, 2015 21:03:27 GMT
I wondered that too, Val. Only thing I can come up with was that they were somehow hoping to con Jordan into releasing (as a trade) that female terrorist they want back so badly (Sajida al-Rishawi). But surely they didn't think Jordan would be so stupid as to do a trade without proof that their pilot was alive. It doesn't make sense.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Feb 3, 2015 21:11:47 GMT
No idea. But I've been keeping up with this in all the media outlets and I think the images ISIS release should NOT be shown. That's one way to shut down their social propaganda efforts. ISIS has been capturing people and murdering them in that region left and right. It's one way they're making money off their neighbors. Obama acknowledged publicly that they had a female American aid worker. I believe she was captured back in August? They're diligently trying to garner her release. But I don't think they will be successful. This group is using every opportunity to create the biggest effect they can and I seriously fear how they are going to use her. I've also been following news on the 5 Gitmo detainees that were traded for Bergdahl. I think their return to the front is imminent.  |
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Feb 3, 2015 21:15:09 GMT
How absolutely tragic and horrifying. His poor family. Why did they wait a month to release the video? I'd also read that their latest video was also the most highly produced. This is part of their propaganda to recruit. They are offering money to target soldiers in Jordan. I'd read that they had flashed images of certain Jordanian soldiers at the end of that video. |
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valincal
Drama Llama
Southern Alberta
Posts: 6,225
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Post by valincal on Feb 3, 2015 21:28:31 GMT
No idea. But I've been keeping up with this in all the media outlets and I think the images ISIS release should NOT be shown. That's one way to shut down their social propaganda efforts. ISIS has been capturing people and murdering them in that region left and right. It's one way they're making money off their neighbors. Obama acknowledged publicly that they had a female American aid worker. I believe she was captured back in August? They're diligently trying to garner her release. But I don't think they will be successful. This group is using every opportunity to create the biggest effect they can and I seriously fear how they are going to use her. I've also been following news on the 5 Gitmo detainees that were traded for Bergdahl. I think their return to the front is imminent. Scary. I agree that their propaganda should not receive any attention from the western media. Any ideas of what the West should do? I didn't answer this in my first post. Actually, any answer I could possibly think of would come across (correctly) as uninformed and hysterical so I'll leave it at that. I'm definitely not feeling smug and safe in my little corner of the world any more. |
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casii
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,588
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Post by casii on Feb 3, 2015 21:30:17 GMT
Sadly, you can't reason with monsters.
The alternative is to become monstrous ourselves.
In the meantime, shut down their internet and social media access. Find ways to cut off their funding? What else?
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Feb 3, 2015 21:36:30 GMT
It's horrific.
I will say a prayer for this heroic soldier and those who love him.
ISIS has a 26 year old female aid worker. I cannot imagine how today's events must weigh on her family.
The only thing I can think to say is that I hope those governments in the Middle East will be called to action and unite to eradicate radical Islamic terrorist groups and regimes.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:36:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 21:36:55 GMT
I'm not sure there's anything (well, anything that's even the least bit ethical or morally acceptable) that can be done.
I do agree that any of their propaganda, videos, etc. should not be given any media attention.
What do you think should be done, OP?
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Feb 3, 2015 21:42:09 GMT
I'm not sure there's anything (well, anything that's even the least bit ethical or morally acceptable) that can be done. Are you saying Jordan should do nothing? |
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 3, 2015 21:43:50 GMT
I wish that I knew. One thing I am sure of; this is an international crisis, not an American one. They have shown brutality to all, equally.
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Post by snowsilver on Feb 3, 2015 21:45:55 GMT
I'm not sure there's anything (well, anything that's even the least bit ethical or morally acceptable) that can be done. I do agree that any of their propaganda, videos, etc. should not be given any media attention. What do you think should be done, OP? I think almost everyone is afraid to say what they think should be done because the only thing that really can be done makes us (as said above) monsters too. But in my mind--that's all that will work, if even that will. We may have put it off too long and let them become too firmly entrenched. I'm finding that in discussions outside this forum, the men are mostly "Let's just go and DO it!" while women are more "we don't want to become like them!" I struggle with this. I don't want to see my country become barbaric. But what good does it do for the good guy to sit back and let the barbarian destroy him--then all that's left in the world is a barbarian, and the good people in the world will have no chance. I'm in the middle of a book about conditions in North Korea and I simply cannot imagine having to live like that. So part of me says--"do whatever it takes to keep civilization in the world." But I recoil from the "what it would take" part. That's why I thought it would be interesting to see if others have better ideas than I have been able to come up with. I think casii's idea of shutting down their Internet ability is great--but can that be done? And would WE lose important intel if we did?? |
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Feb 3, 2015 21:49:12 GMT
What should the West do? We need to focus on preventing our citizens from joining the fray in Syria and preventing radicalization on our turf. We need to continue the aerial assaults. Boots on the ground? This should really be something the Middle East should unite on. They want the West out? Then pull up your boot straps and kick those radicals out of your country. Preventing their people (looking at you Syria and Iran) from having to flee should be their main concern and is absolutely shameful that foreign aid workers who are willing to risk their lives are being taken and murdered and aren't being protected. Here's how Germany is handling this situation, besides becoming a place of refuge for many displaced Syrians: www.thelocal.de/20150203/germany-plans-new-foreign-fighters-law"A draft law from the Justice Ministry shows that the government plans to criminalize people who leave or attempt to leave Germany to join terrorist groups such as Isis." |
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loco coco
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,662
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Post by loco coco on Feb 3, 2015 21:51:55 GMT
They were negotiating this guys release and he was already dead  These people are evil down to the core. A Jordanian official said the authorities would execute several militants jailed in Jordan in response, including a Iraqi woman who Amman had sought to swap for the pilot taken captive after his plane crashed in Syria in December. |
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:36:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 21:53:54 GMT
You cannot reason with people like this. Negotiating won't work. So far, the air strikes aren't working. They seem to be getting more fanatical. They willingly die for their cause, so the threat of death really isn't a deterrent.
When they threaten to behead the president in the White House, I have to wonder how much of it is bluster and how much of it has already been planned.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:36:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 21:56:03 GMT
I'm not sure there's anything (well, anything that's even the least bit ethical or morally acceptable) that can be done. Are you saying Jordan should do nothing? No, not at all. The OP asked what the West should do. I was answering that question. |
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Post by psoccer on Feb 3, 2015 21:56:56 GMT
Jordon's response was quick and brutal. They will be executing several jihadists that they had on death row. I think they realized there is no negotiating. I don't think there is any negotiating either, but the US will try, I'm sure. I am curious to see if Jordan carries out their threat and what, if anything ISIS does in retaliation.
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conchita
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Feb 3, 2015 22:00:39 GMT
You cannot reason with people like this. Negotiating won't work. So far, the air strikes aren't working. They seem to be getting more fanatical. They willingly die for their cause, so the threat of death really isn't a deterrent. When they threaten to behead the president in the White House, I have to wonder how much of it is bluster and how much of it has already been planned. The air strikes are working to a certain extant albeit slowly. They have a steady number of new recruits replenishing their numbers while their battle hardened members are dying on the front. It is wearing their militarized forces down, while depleting their resources. It's hard to fight when your forces aren't trained. Look at how efficient their attack was in France compared to their lone wolf attacks carried out by untrained fighters. Weakening them allows the fighters who are on the ground to battle them and win back land. There have been several recent skirmishes where ISIS has been successfully pushed back. |
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Post by snowsilver on Feb 3, 2015 22:02:13 GMT
I'm actually very much in favor of Jordan's response. I think it is measured and appropriate. There HAS to be some reprisal for such brutality. It seems as though the terrorists are just upping the horror. Its almost beyond the comprehension of a sane person to think of beheading a human--but now they are burning them alive!
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:36:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 22:02:47 GMT
I'm not sure there's anything (well, anything that's even the least bit ethical or morally acceptable) that can be done. I do agree that any of their propaganda, videos, etc. should not be given any media attention. What do you think should be done, OP? I think almost everyone is afraid to say what they think should be done because the only thing that really can be done makes us (as said above) monsters too. But in my mind--that's all that will work, if even that will. We may have put it off too long and let them become too firmly entrenched. I'm finding that in discussions outside this forum, the men are mostly "Let's just go and DO it!" while women are more "we don't want to become like them!" I struggle with this. I don't want to see my country become barbaric. But what good does it do for the good guy to sit back and let the barbarian destroy him--then all that's left in the world is a barbarian, and the good people in the world will have no chance. I'm in the middle of a book about conditions in North Korea and I simply cannot imagine having to live like that. So part of me says--"do whatever it takes to keep civilization in the world." But I recoil from the "what it would take" part. That's why I thought it would be interesting to see if others have better ideas than I have been able to come up with. I think casii's idea of shutting down their Internet ability is great--but can that be done? And would WE lose important intel if we did?? You know, I agree with a lot of what you've said. But I don't think the US should be taking the lead in any kind of boots-on-the-ground action. I'm totally fine with Jordan's response. I do think they should take a very tough stance. |
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Post by snowsilver on Feb 3, 2015 22:06:33 GMT
No, I'm not (at this moment) in favor of boots on the ground either. Because what the heck would we fight against? And where would we go to fight it?
This is such a puzzler. I don't think the world has ever faced this kind of war before.
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Post by mollycoddle on Feb 3, 2015 22:06:46 GMT
The only long term solution is to better integrate immigrants into society, so that they feel like they have a stake in their new country. I would happily see the current ISIS crew eradicated, but I think that would cause a backlash, and would martyr them.
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Post by scrappergonewild on Feb 3, 2015 22:10:13 GMT
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Nink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,963
Location: North Idaho
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Post by Nink on Feb 3, 2015 22:36:44 GMT
I have no idea how to stop them, but my heart goes out to those they've executed and their families. I can't think of a more horrific way to die and as a mother my soul would be tormented forever thinking about my child being killed in such barbaric ways.
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scrappinghappy
Pearl Clutcher
“I’m late, I’m late for a very important date. No time to say “Hello.” Goodbye. I’m late...."
Posts: 4,307
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Post by scrappinghappy on Feb 3, 2015 22:46:06 GMT
They want aid and monitoring but can't keep the workers safe. They want money for relief but can't keep the money from falling to IS.
It's a horrible, horrible situation with no easy solution
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:36:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 22:50:45 GMT
This just came across my Twitter feed. Some of the associated videos and articles talk about how much of their recruiting is done online. I do agree with shutting their access down, but not sure how it could be done.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:36:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2015 23:16:23 GMT
I think the ways in which they torture and kill people is going to get even worse.
Sadly, I think they needed to up the ante, so to speak. Beheadings, as horrific as they are, no longer "surprised" the civilized world. We grew to expect that from the ISIS animals.
I don't blame Jordan for executing all prisoners they have in retaliation. Sadly, I don't think ISIS gives two shits about people in general...not even their own people. ISIS doesn't care if all of their buddies held as prisoners are executed in equally horrific ways.
I don't know what kind of impact all of these air strikes are having on ISIS. If the air strikes are truly making a difference...then we should continue air strikes. But somehow, I think eventually, we will need boots on the ground to finish the job. Whose boots? I'm not sure it matters...but I'm not sure air strikes will be able to completely eradicate ISIS. |
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Post by ingrid6 on Feb 3, 2015 23:32:43 GMT
Makes me ill. My dad was a p.o.w. He watched his best friend be beheaded. I can not begin to tell how incredibly sad, heartbreaking & gut wrenching it was to listen the one and only time my dad recounted the story to me. The torture of beheadings, burnings, etc. is beyond my comprehension.
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Post by epeanymous on Feb 3, 2015 23:38:17 GMT
Retaliatory killings aren't going to matter to people who don't place a value on life in the first place.
Honestly, I do not know what should be done. Obviously this killing, like the rest of them, is horrific.
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Post by snowsilver on Feb 3, 2015 23:44:33 GMT
Ingrid, that's an awful story. Your dad must have never gotten over that!
I was thinking that it probably is true as epeanymous says that retaliatory killings aren't going to work. They will just figure out more and more brutal ways to get even. And they will never run out of lambs to sacrifice as they can just grab anyone off the street. Woman--sure. Kid--yep, no problem for them.
Somewhere there has to be an answer to this that leaves the rest of the world civilized--but I can't think what it is. Bigger brains than mine hopefully have an answer. Because this isn't going away.
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These people are evil down to the core.
