ginacivey
Pearl Clutcher
refupea #2 in southeast missouri
Posts: 4,685 
|
Post by ginacivey on Feb 4, 2015 18:03:43 GMT
i get that
but what it really does is fuel the fire
give the statement no credence whatsoever -
|
|
tracylynn
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,905
|
Post by tracylynn on Feb 4, 2015 18:03:51 GMT
My thought is that he's severely mentally ill. My thought is that this dramatic and drastic transformation is an abomination. My thought is that this is just one more step down the sin path straight into the pit. My thought is that the devil is delighted when people destroy themselves like this. My thought is that you aren't very Christian-like. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:55:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:04:56 GMT
the thing about the statment from paperaddict - the op asked for opinions and she gave hers and the it just happens to go against the majority that posted but, nevertheless, it's her opinion she is as entitled to it...as you are yours i haven't seen her posting about how YOUR opinions are wrong or invalid so really - as long as it's her opinion and that is what was asked for...let it be gina You are right of course, she is entitled to her opinion. BUT to equate a gender struggle with mental illness and a descent in to hell is just hateful any way you paint it. How would you (general you) feel if she said that to you or your child or family member? Comments, opinions, whatever you want to call them, like that are so damaging. |
|
|
|
Post by scrappergonewild on Feb 4, 2015 18:05:54 GMT
i get that but what it really does is fuel the fire give the statement no credence whatsoever - Honestly I don't care. She is doing other Christians a disservice and adding to the already hard life transgenders have. Stop the hate. |
|
|
|
Post by compwalla on Feb 4, 2015 18:06:02 GMT
the thing about the statment from paperaddict - the op asked for opinions and she gave hers and the it just happens to go against the majority that posted but, nevertheless, it's her opinion she is as entitled to it...as you are yours i haven't seen her posting about how YOUR opinions are wrong or invalid so really - as long as it's her opinion and that is what was asked for...let it be gina No. If someone came on here and posted something about Bobbi Kristina that was racist and vile then we'd all call her out in a heartbeat. Her post was mean and vile and hateful and no one should just put up with that. She can think what she likes (as mean and narrrowminded as it is) but if she says it where people can hear it, she should fully expect to get called out for it. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:55:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:06:39 GMT
When I first saw it plastered all over the 'rag mags' I thought it was just a publicity stunt. Now I'm not so sure. It is somewhat odd. He's 65 years old, what made him wait so long if this is always how he felt inside? I guess maybe family and reputation held him back. Not to make light of his decision, but he doesn't make a very pretty woman. are you a pretty woman? |
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Feb 4, 2015 18:07:14 GMT
I know some people feel this change should be a private thing, but I can't help but think that by doing this in the public eye he is going to somehow make it easier for others to acknowledge their similar desires and hopefully make it less scary for them and their loved ones. I don't want to trivialize what happened during the civil rights movements, but I kind of feel like people who are coming out to their families on you tube, on tv, in magazines, etc are in a small way normalizing it and making it easier for other people, much like Ruby Bridges and Rosa Parks and so many other people who fought for acceptance did in the 60's. It is a fact that a lot of LGBT people feel alone and ashamed, wouldn't it be nice to live I a world where they didn't? I don't even claim to understand what someone who is LGBT has to deal with both at a personal level and at the world at large level, but I do think that the more people who are free to express who they really are the more understanding and hopefully acceptance there will be. I know that we are talking about people who are LGBT a lot more now then we did when I was growing up, and it isn't like being LGBT is a new thing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Feb 4, 2015 18:11:18 GMT
the thing about the statment from paperaddict - the op asked for opinions and she gave hers and the it just happens to go against the majority that posted but, nevertheless, it's her opinion she is as entitled to it...as you are yours i haven't seen her posting about how YOUR opinions are wrong or invalid so really - as long as it's her opinion and that is what was asked for...let it be gina No. What she said is hateful and vile. Should she be allowed to spew racist comments because it is her opinion? |
|
brandy327
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,353
|
Post by brandy327 on Feb 4, 2015 18:12:08 GMT
I hope it helps trans people. Before my daughter 'came out', I knew very little about that population. They're really struggling.  I have a friend that has done a lot for the bi and transgender community and she's said the same thing about them struggling. |
|
sharlag
Drama Llama
I like my artsy with a little bit of fartsy.
Posts: 6,586
Location: Kansas
Jun 26, 2014 12:57:48 GMT
|
Post by sharlag on Feb 4, 2015 18:14:25 GMT
i get that but what it really does is fuel the fire give the statement no credence whatsoever - Yeah, I wanted to pile on as well, but didn't want to give her the satisfaction of a response. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:55:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:17:00 GMT
i get that but what it really does is fuel the fire give the statement no credence whatsoever - Yeah, I wanted to pile on as well, but didn't want to give her the satisfaction of a response. I admire that. I also think that speaking out is part of making change. |
|
|
|
Post by littlemama on Feb 4, 2015 18:17:23 GMT
the thing about the statment from paperaddict - the op asked for opinions and she gave hers and the it just happens to go against the majority that posted but, nevertheless, it's her opinion she is as entitled to it...as you are yours i haven't seen her posting about how YOUR opinions are wrong or invalid so really - as long as it's her opinion and that is what was asked for...let it be gina Thank you, Gina, I was trying to find a way to say the same thing. She is just as entitled to her feelings and opinions as everyone else here. Everyone does not have to have the same feelings, and should feel free to express them when asked, whether or not those feelings are the current norm. And I still don't care one bit what Bruce Jenner does. LOL
|
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Feb 4, 2015 18:17:57 GMT
Regarding the post about dressing like a man or a woman and "trying harder". I am female and don't wear skirts, dresses or make up. Should I try harder? Or am I exempt because I was born and identify female? What about boys that some people refer to as metrosexual? Should they try harder to be masculine? See how silly that is?
And regarding whether Bruce Jenner is a pretty man or a pretty woman or a handsome man or a handsome women or none of the above is just weird and so not the point.
|
|
sharlag
Drama Llama
I like my artsy with a little bit of fartsy.
Posts: 6,586
Location: Kansas
Jun 26, 2014 12:57:48 GMT
|
Post by sharlag on Feb 4, 2015 18:19:00 GMT
Yeah, I wanted to pile on as well, but didn't want to give her the satisfaction of a response. I admire that. I also think that speaking out is part of making change. Do you think 50 similar, anti-responses is better than 15? I'm not arguing, I really wonder when I see so many people saying what I think needs said, as they have here on this thread. Should I also say something? Or not. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:55:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:20:14 GMT
I admire that. I also think that speaking out is part of making change. Do you think 50 similar, anti-responses is better than 15? I'm not arguing, I really wonder when I see so many people saying what I think needs said, as they have here on this thread. Should I also say something? Or not. I don't know if there's an appropriate number of replies... I think if someone feels necessary to speak up when they read something they consider hateful and harmful, they should. |
|
|
|
Post by scrappergonewild on Feb 4, 2015 18:21:58 GMT
Do you think 50 similar, anti-responses is better than 15? I'm not arguing, I really wonder when I see so many people saying what I think needs said, as they have here on this thread. Should I also say something? Or not. I don't know if there's an appropriate number of replies... I think if someone feels necessary to speak up when they read something they consider hateful and harmful, they should. Exactly. This is a message board. We read when when we have a chance and respond when we choose to. That's the whole point. |
|
|
|
Post by padresfan619 on Feb 4, 2015 18:22:32 GMT
Bruce has not commented on anything yet, so at this point it is all speculation. He has not commented on how he chooses to identify himself so people calling him "he/she" are jumping the gun. Kim was interviewed recently and she simply said that he (she used the term "he" so I choose to use that term until Bruce says differently) is the happiest he has been in a long time.
I have more than one transgender person in my day to day life. I hope that this shines a positive light because clearly there are still people in this world who don't understand. There are some right on this thread.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:55:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:23:23 GMT
Honest question here, as I've seen two instances lately and in genuinely curious. Why do they sometimes still look very manly? I thought that with wanting to become women they would try to look the part a little more. Here are my two examples. On is a friends son who has transitioned to a woman. She has changed her name, grown out her hair and wears women's clothing. But to look at her she looks like her former "boy" self with bangs and long hair. She doesn't wear makeup, her voice is still deep, she wears women's clothes but they don't scream woman. She's having a tough time with acceptance. The other example is of a transgender lady who just got beat up outside of a bakery in my city. She's homeless and she was being harassed by two guys at the bar next door. She's dressed like a woman but has a five o'clock shadow. I guess my question is that it's hard enough to be accepted when you do decide to make that change why don't you dress the part a little more? In both of my examples they look more like men dressed up as women and that's hard to pass off as women I think. And I realize that I am being judgemental with that. But I do think that's part of why the general public has a hard time accepting it. A lot of how they look has to do with where along the process of being feminized they are. Our physical appearance such as skin texture, hair growth patterns, muscle definition, voice box development, even the shape of nails and teeth are largely driven by hormones. The older a person is when starting hormones the less effective they are on physical appearance because the original hormones have already set the growth in a certain direction. A child just on the cusp of puberty who is given different hormones will have a more altered appearance than someone who waits several decades past puberty. And some choose to not go the hormone route due to cost or medical issues associated with it. Then there are the issues involved in self identity... even though they want to be the other gender their hairstyle is part of them or they feel like a more masculine women (I'm sure among your women acquaintances you can think of one or two who are rather "manly" in their clothing or hair style choices) For a very hair suite male a 5 oclock shadow isn't something that is going to just go away. And who has time to shave several times a day? |
|
|
|
Post by padresfan619 on Feb 4, 2015 18:24:14 GMT
And once Bruce does announce his choice of term to identity, whatever it may be, the use of "he/she" is incredibly offensive.
|
|
|
|
Post by moveablefeast on Feb 4, 2015 18:26:50 GMT
Honest question here, as I've seen two instances lately and in genuinely curious. Why do they sometimes still look very manly? I thought that with wanting to become women they would try to look the part a little more. Here are my two examples. On is a friends son who has transitioned to a woman. She has changed her name, grown out her hair and wears women's clothing. But to look at her she looks like her former "boy" self with bangs and long hair. She doesn't wear makeup, her voice is still deep, she wears women's clothes but they don't scream woman. She's having a tough time with acceptance. The other example is of a transgender lady who just got beat up outside of a bakery in my city. She's homeless and she was being harassed by two guys at the bar next door. She's dressed like a woman but has a five o'clock shadow. I guess my question is that it's hard enough to be accepted when you do decide to make that change why don't you dress the part a little more? In both of my examples they look more like men dressed up as women and that's hard to pass off as women I think. And I realize that I am being judgemental with that. But I do think that's part of why the general public has a hard time accepting it. My DD has a transgender girl at school. Her name is Sam. She speaks about Sam matter of factly. They know she was a boy but now she's a girl. Idk how she knows this, she says its general knowledge. But no one seems to have a problem with it. Well, she doesn't anyway. But she does have a problem with Sam, she doesn't like Sam for other reasons, she's not a nice girl, she can be mean, so DD doesn't interact with her very much. I see so much more acceptance now in schools between the kids than when I was in school. I think the answer is that it's all part of the process for people who are really working out their identities. If you think about those of us who aren't transgender, we are a mixed bag too. Some of us wear really unfashionable clothes and no makeup and bad hair, and I know a couple of women who were born as women who have facial hair that they don't do anything with for various reasons. We have different personalities and resources, we have different bodies and lives. Clothes look different on different people, makeup, hair - I couldn't look like a fashionista if I tried! I'm just not that girl. So it would probably be the same - and maybe even more complex - for a person with gender matters to consider additionally. I don't pretend that I actually understand transgenderism at all, because I know I don't. But I can see how a person early in the process - or someone who maybe is further in the lifestyle matters than the physical ones, or whatever - might appear out of sync because you don't go to bed one night a male and wake up te next morning a female, you know? So you would expect some of these issues as part of the process. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Aug 18, 2025 21:55:00 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2015 18:29:26 GMT
Honest question here, as I've seen two instances lately and in genuinely curious. Why do they sometimes still look very manly? I thought that with wanting to become women they would try to look the part a little more. Here are my two examples. On is a friends son who has transitioned to a woman. She has changed her name, grown out her hair and wears women's clothing. But to look at her she looks like her former "boy" self with bangs and long hair. She doesn't wear makeup, her voice is still deep, she wears women's clothes but they don't scream woman. She's having a tough time with acceptance. The other example is of a transgender lady who just got beat up outside of a bakery in my city. She's homeless and she was being harassed by two guys at the bar next door. She's dressed like a woman but has a five o'clock shadow. I guess my question is that it's hard enough to be accepted when you do decide to make that change why don't you dress the part a little more? In both of my examples they look more like men dressed up as women and that's hard to pass off as women I think. And I realize that I am being judgemental with that. But I do think that's part of why the general public has a hard time accepting it. My DD has a transgender girl at school. Her name is Sam. She speaks about Sam matter of factly. They know she was a boy but now she's a girl. Idk how she knows this, she says its general knowledge. But no one seems to have a problem with it. Well, she doesn't anyway. But she does have a problem with Sam, she doesn't like Sam for other reasons, she's not a nice girl, she can be mean, so DD doesn't interact with her very much. I see so much more acceptance now in schools between the kids than when I was in school. I think the answer is that it's all part of the process for people who are really working out their identities. If you think about those of us who aren't transgender, we are a mixed bag too. Some of us wear really unfashionable clothes and no makeup and bad hair, and I know a couple of women who were born as women who have facial hair that they don't do anything with for various reasons. We have different personalities and resources, we have different bodies and lives. Clothes look different on different people, makeup, hair - I couldn't look like a fashionista if I tried! I'm just not that girl. So it would probably be the same - and maybe even more complex - for a person with gender matters to consider additionally. I don't pretend that I actually understand transgenderism at all, because I know I don't. But I can see how a person early in the process might appear out of sync because you don't go to bed one night a male and wake up te next morning a female, you know? So you would expect some of these issues as part of the process. Homrone therapy and surgery are also very expensive, and not everyone can afford it. There are also requirements/limitations on who can have them.. it is a long process. Like, you can't just walk into a doctor's office and hand over tens-hundreds of thousands of dollars and have surgery or hormone therapy. There's also a difference between someone who is trans, and someone who cross dresses. Not every biological male who wears lady's clothing is trans. |
|
|
|
Post by nurseypants on Feb 4, 2015 18:32:06 GMT
And once Bruce does announce his choice of term to identity, whatever it may be, the use of "he/she" is incredibly offensive. How about s/he? |
|
|
|
Post by Aheartfeltcard on Feb 4, 2015 18:35:49 GMT
the thing about the statment from paperaddict - the op asked for opinions and she gave hers and the it just happens to go against the majority that posted but, nevertheless, it's her opinion she is as entitled to it...as you are yours i haven't seen her posting about how YOUR opinions are wrong or invalid so really - as long as it's her opinion and that is what was asked for...let it be gina Exactly. But it won't be let go. I think it's harsh but I don't care enough about it to argue. I don't like radical thinking in any direction on almost any subject. I am not a know it all, I'm not dumb. I have an opinion but I am also open minded. Some people are indecisive and some are closed minded. I take an interest in others opinions. That is why this is such s good read for my coffee break. |
|
|
|
Post by anonrefugee on Feb 4, 2015 18:36:19 GMT
I hope he doesn't cause more damage than good, because he's attached to a publicity seeking crowd with questionable motives. His representing an entire "community'" might be as legitimate as the other Ks empowering women.
I haven't batted an eye as DS schoolmate and youth group member has made transition, except to hug her Mom, listen occasionally.
But Bruce Jenner Is different, I'm curious and have questions. He was Olympic idol when I was a teen. It's got to be hard to find yourself after that's over. I wonder if he's always felt this way, or its part of another journey? Because he, and now his mother, are being so public, Im hoping they want us to ask and they teach us.
|
|
|
|
Post by padresfan619 on Feb 4, 2015 18:39:07 GMT
And once Bruce does announce his choice of term to identity, whatever it may be, the use of "he/she" is incredibly offensive. How about s/he? For the time being Bruce hasn't shared his preference for how he wants to identify. Once he does we should use whichever term he is comfortable with. If he feels he wants to use female descriptors we should use those. If he wants to continue being referred to with male pronouns then we should use those. Using both together is not ok, unless the specific person says it is. |
|
|
|
Post by Skellinton on Feb 4, 2015 18:40:08 GMT
I do have a question that is probably very ignorant, so please forgive me. People who are truly transgender (meaning not a cross dresser as I know they are two different things) don't necessarily find the opposite sex attractive right? Meaning someone who was born a male and is transgendered to a female (either with or without surgery) could be attracted to either a boy or a girl correct? So, in this case Bruce could still be attracted to females, in that case would he be considered a lesbian?
Again, I apologize for my ignorance, and I hope that was not an insensitive question to ask.
|
|
gina
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,461
|
Post by gina on Feb 4, 2015 18:42:27 GMT
I didn't read the replies. Here is my initial thought:
I don't give two rat's tiny @sses what he wants to do with his life. Really. It makes no difference to me.
I do NOT, however, agree with it being a private family matter. He is making a docu-series about the transition for cripe's sake. So to me, we are allowed to speculate and discuss and ask questions. He is welcoming the attention by doing a series about this.
|
|
|
|
Post by Aheartfeltcard on Feb 4, 2015 18:43:09 GMT
So will Bruce be a woman who has passed menopause? I mean , he is 65! I wonder how different the hormones are? How unfair it will be if he gets hormones like a 30 year old while i suffer perimenopause. That should be illegal!!
|
|
|
|
Post by padresfan619 on Feb 4, 2015 18:44:34 GMT
I do have a question that is probably very ignorant, so please forgive me. People who are truly transgender (meaning not a cross dresser as I know they are two different things) don't necessarily find the opposite sex attractive right? Meaning someone who was born a male and is transgendered to a female (either with or without surgery) could be attracted to either a boy or a girl correct? So, in this case Bruce could still be attracted to females, in that case would he be considered a lesbian? Again, I apologize for my ignorance, and I hope that was not an insensitive question to ask. You are correct. Being trans has nothing to do with who a person wants to go to bed with, it is who they want to go to bed AS. I know a married couple and the husband is transgender. Before his transition to a male he was still attracted to girls, that never changed. So he is a straight, FtM transgender. |
|
|
|
Post by pierkiss on Feb 4, 2015 18:44:45 GMT
I find the whole thing really hard to believe. Basically because of the family it's coming from. :/
|
|
I have a friend that has done a lot for the bi and transgender community and she's said the same thing about them struggling.
[/URL]
