raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Mar 4, 2015 16:09:15 GMT
They have partnered with four nearby schools to allow for seamless transfer. Not that it helps, but they do have options. It's something, but it's a poor option and really limiting. How is four schools and seamless transfer limiting? (I have never heard of this school before, so I'm being sincere).
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Mar 4, 2015 16:12:28 GMT
It .... I'm a big proponent of liberal arts education and think it's a shame that our society is failing to value it and instead worshipping on the altar of STEM alone. Someday this needs its own thread... I agree to a point. I think the notion of STEAM is picking up though, as people recognize the need for design. We have a woman in our college with an undergraduate degree in art and now a PhD in environmental science, and her packaging of her community program to work towards gardening in areas near superfund sights is incredible. So much so that she is starting a class on marketing in the college of public health. I think we all need to come together from all backgrounds and see how everyone can bring something to the table in collaboration to make the world better.
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Post by txdancermom on Mar 4, 2015 16:25:18 GMT
My dd went there - best thing that ever happened to her. DD was on a conference call last night with the President and others, and they WERE NOT ANSWERING the questions. she was noting answers and said they were pointedly avoiding the questions about the finances, etc other than to say they didn't have the money and didn't want to go to court to release some dedicated endowment funds. Well I hate to tell them they are going to Court - the courts that the alumnae are choosing - and from what I heard there are lawsuits ready to be filed. If anyone is interested, here is a website set up for the Save Sweet Briar cause. Please think good thoughts for all the girls, faculty and alums who are in this fight. savingsweetbriar.com/Yes, supposedly schools will allow the girls to transfer, but for some - the engineering students - the only school that is "available" is in Michigan! for many that is not an option. And I have heard that one of the college presidents has already slammed SBC's inability to manage its finances....not very welcoming in my book.
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texanvixen
New Member
Posts: 5
Mar 4, 2015 16:33:07 GMT
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Post by texanvixen on Mar 4, 2015 17:09:10 GMT
I went to Sweet Briar (I'm the DD of txdancermom) and I've been a lurker for years and just wanted to come out of lurkdom to clear some things up.
1. There are currently 500+ students. When I graduated in 2010 each class was between 200-300. The freshman class that came in my last year (would have graduated 2013) was the smallest in a while because we were in the midst of the recession and people were just starting to realize how expensive college was and how outrageous student loans were. So yes, the numbers were diminishing, but it is still a fair number of students, faculty, and staff affected by this. In Amherst county Virginia Sweet Briar is a major employer and a big part of the community. So closing affects thousands of people in the town.
2. They have partnered with four schools in the are to allow for seamless transfer. But I was sitting in on a call for parents last night (gotta get the info any way I can) and a number of parents were saying their daughters didn't want to go to any of the four schools, and asking how their students could get into schools now if transfer deadlines have passed. The school claims that they will work with the students and other schools to help them, but it really is a terrible situation. Many students past and present (myself included) were able to go to Sweet Briar because of scholarships. Unfortunately Sweet Briar is not honoring those scholarships after this year. From a legal perspective they probably don't have to because if their lawyer was smart something was written in the language for scholarships that says they only apply if the school is operating. But as an alum, myself and some others have made it known that if the school does in fact close, we want to ensure that those students who were promised scholarships by the school, get what they were promised, if not from the school, through donations of alums.
3. This did and didn't come out of nowhere. When I was there, there was always talk about needing money. There was a day in March where tuition money ran out and the school operated solely on donations. We usually did a big campaign push for donations during that day and the days leading up. That is the way it is at most every private college in America. The school did have a discount rate, and I know nothing about how much or whether they continued to discount it, but they did try to keep it affordable for students not wanting us to be saddled with debt for the rest of our lives and that is commendable. However, it did come out of the blue because nothing has been said to the Alumnae, parents, or anyone that we were in such dire financial straits that closing the school was a possibility. The argument among the alums is that if this was even on the table, the board should have respected us enough to come to us with the problems and let us know. If we knew that the college was in danger of closing we would have worked to raise money, seek out options, and even have considered a co-ed option. But the board did not respect us and underestimated us and so this did come out of the blue, especially considering the last estimate of our endowment was 94 million and we found out last night that it is currently 84 million. So please don't say we weren't paying close enough attention.
4. As for the endowment, I'm not sure what will happen to it. Last night this question was asked of the President and the Dean of Academics and no direct answer was given. I know that the president talked about bonds that could be recalled at any time (no answer though on what made them think these bonds are going to be recalled tomorrow so that closing was the only option) and they talked of severance packages for faculty. Beyond that, I have no idea. But I say follow the money and we'll find out why this decision was made so suddenly.
5. The four schools are a little limiting because they are schools that the students would have considered as alternatives but overlooked for various reasons. Also one of the schools put out a statement yesterday trying to reassure their donor base that they were fine and in the process bashed Sweet Briar by stating what they've done wrong. If I were a student I would not feel welcome at that school. Furthermore we have a great engineering program and none of these four schools does. the engineering program that they have found for the students is in Michigan. From what I heard from the parents last night that doesn't seem to appeal to many of the students.
Those are my comments based on what I've read from here, in the order they go in the thread (I think). All of that being said there have been cases where Alumnae have saved schools. Wilson College, I believe. So that is what we are trying to do. We recognize that we may not be able to do it but it does at least give us the opportunity to have our say. As a proud alumna I believe that the board and president failed us here and that they have not told us everything. There have been many suspicious things that have happened or been said that make me at least believe that something more is going on. At the very least, I believe that the board just saw that things were hard and didn't feel like trying, because based on what I've heard from the call last night and what I've read, there are some options that would allow it to keep going for awhile to allow students and faculty time to find a new home, or allow alumnae the opportunity to save the college. Or even to allow it to go co-ed. There are a number of options which I don't believe they considered.
But I've said my piece and appreciate you all giving me the opportunity to say my piece. If you have any questions, I'm more than willing to answer what I know. However, I will clear up anything that might be posted or said on here. I just want to ensure that there's not incorrect information out there.
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Post by alissa103 on Mar 4, 2015 17:28:20 GMT
It's something, but it's a poor option and really limiting. How is four schools and seamless transfer limiting? (I have never heard of this school before, so I'm being sincere). It's limiting if those schools don't have your major/minor combo. Or are too expensive. Or don't have any financial aid or scholarships left at this point in the year to give you, if you got that kind of $ at Sweet Briar. It's limiting in the sense that most smaller Liberal Arts schools (assuming these women would prefer one again) have accepted their students for 2015-2016 and closed the application process already, so if you'd rather pick another school instead of the four offered, you're stuck. And again, even if that other school decides to be sympathetic and admit you, most of the aid and scholarship money has already been allocated to others for the next year. Can't afford it? Too bad. If the school had announced this at the end of first semester, these women still could have scrambled and applied ANYWHERE in the country. And been eligible for scholarships and aid. Now they have to pick from four schools vs. thousands, unless they're able to get in elsewhere at the very last minute. That's why I think it's limiting. Sad.
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Post by momof3pits on Mar 4, 2015 17:31:30 GMT
What is the option for schooling in MI?
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Post by 2peaornot2pea on Mar 4, 2015 17:34:48 GMT
Small colleges are having issues because of the advent of online degrees. Enrollment is down at many universities, including mine, which brings less tuition into the institution. Less tuition means the university can't meet it's operating costs, faculty cuts, etc. But hey, everyone wants to go to college in their jammies, right?This is rude and wildly inaccurate about the motivations of students who choose online learning.
The rise in the cost of attending college is a major factor for people who choose to earn degrees through online options. Attending online classes allows students who have to work, options they otherwise would not have. Learning via webinars and online courses requires dedication, focus, independence, and maturity. Students must be excellent readers and writers.
I have been a full time remote worker with a technology company for over 15 years so have a pretty good understanding of what is required to be successful at working/learning online, from a remote location.
Being able to work in my p.j.'s if I choose is a perk but isn't the reason I work remotely. I'm sure the same is true for remote students.
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Post by alissa103 on Mar 4, 2015 17:44:20 GMT
texanvixen, well said. I hope the alumnae are able to save your school! Also I replied before I saw your response, otherwise I wouldn't have basically said the same thing about why the four school choices are limiting. I feel horrible for the faculty and staff as well. If they own homes there, good luck trying to sell when there's not much else in the area employment-wise. And they're also in a tough place needing to start looking for a job all over again, especially if they're tenured. Just a mess all around Also, txdancermom did you go to a small liberal arts school in IN? For some reason I think we went to the same school, if I'm not confusing you with another TX pea from the old board.
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Post by alissa103 on Mar 4, 2015 18:01:11 GMT
What is the option for schooling in MI? From the SBC Facebook page, "The college has established arrangements with four universities, under which students may transfer through an expedited process. The schools are: Randolph College, in Lynchburg, VA; Hollins University, in Roanoke, VA; Mary Baldwin College, in Staunton, VA; and Lynchburg College, in Lynchburg, VA. In addition, Kettering University in Flint, MI will expedite transfer applications for Sweet Briar engineering students for the Fall 2015 semester." it looks like Kettering is taking the engineering students only.
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Post by brina on Mar 4, 2015 18:03:18 GMT
Small colleges are having issues because of the advent of online degrees. Enrollment is down at many universities, including mine, which brings less tuition into the institution. Less tuition means the university can't meet it's operating costs, faculty cuts, etc. But hey, everyone wants to go to college in their jammies, right? Online/distance learning programs aren't always chosen due to wanting to go to college in their pajamas though. More often than not, it is because the person doesn't have direct access to an actual college campus. It is a shame that the smaller schools are having such financial difficulties. Actually according to the Business Week article, this is what they are doing. They made a choice to close now rather than wait until the endowment was all used up in order to use that money to pay severance, provide outplacement services and help students who need to transfer.
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Post by momof3pits on Mar 4, 2015 18:24:40 GMT
What is the option for schooling in MI? From the SBC Facebook page, "The college has established arrangements with four universities, under which students may transfer through an expedited process. The schools are: Randolph College, in Lynchburg, VA; Hollins University, in Roanoke, VA; Mary Baldwin College, in Staunton, VA; and Lynchburg College, in Lynchburg, VA. In addition, Kettering University in Flint, MI will expedite transfer applications for Sweet Briar engineering students for the Fall 2015 semester." it looks like Kettering is taking the engineering students only. Well I can see why that's not viewed as a favorable option, bc I live in MI and my first response was, what made up school is that?!?
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texanvixen
New Member
Posts: 5
Mar 4, 2015 16:33:07 GMT
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Post by texanvixen on Mar 4, 2015 18:27:06 GMT
Online/distance learning programs aren't always chosen due to wanting to go to college in their pajamas though. More often than not, it is because the person doesn't have direct access to an actual college campus. It is a shame that the smaller schools are having such financial difficulties. Actually according to the Business Week article, this is what they are doing. They made a choice to close now rather than wait until the endowment was all used up in order to use that money to pay severance, provide outplacement services and help students who need to transfer. The president and board keep saying that they have done this now to do the honorable, moral, and ethical thing. But in my opinion, the honorable thing would have been for the president, board, and any other high administrator to take a pay cut or no pay at all and let the school wind down over the next year, graduate the class of 2015, and maybe 2016 but going through the 2016 school year would at least give students time to look into other schools and options. Finding a right fit for a college is not easy and asking the students to find a new home in a matter of weeks is irresponsible and by no means honorable, ethical, or moral.
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Post by moveablefeast on Mar 4, 2015 19:28:29 GMT
Actually according to the Business Week article, this is what they are doing. They made a choice to close now rather than wait until the endowment was all used up in order to use that money to pay severance, provide outplacement services and help students who need to transfer. The president and board keep saying that they have done this now to do the honorable, moral, and ethical thing. But in my opinion, the honorable thing would have been for the president, board, and any other high administrator to take a pay cut or no pay at all and let the school wind down over the next year, graduate the class of 2015, and maybe 2016 but going through the 2016 school year would at least give students time to look into other schools and options. Finding a right fit for a college is not easy and asking the students to find a new home in a matter of weeks is irresponsible and by no means honorable, ethical, or moral. I didn't get the impression they had that option. Of $84m left in the endowment, $56m is encumbered, leaving less than $30m to use freely for operating expenses. If they can't cover a year of operating expenses, or if austerity measures will cost critical staff or cause the graduating class to be unable to get the classes they need to graduate, or in the worst case scenario causes an interruption in operations mid year - what happens then? Something very severe had to have happened to cause them to make such an abrupt and untimely decision. I doubt that they had the option to continue operations if this was the decision they made.
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Post by txdancermom on Mar 4, 2015 19:28:30 GMT
texanvixen, well said. I hope the alumnae are able to save your school! Also I replied before I saw your response, otherwise I wouldn't have basically said the same thing about why the four school choices are limiting. I feel horrible for the faculty and staff as well. If they own homes there, good luck trying to sell when there's not much else in the area employment-wise. And they're also in a tough place needing to start looking for a job all over again, especially if they're tenured. Just a mess all around Also, txdancermom did you go to a small liberal arts school in IN? For some reason I think we went to the same school, if I'm not confusing you with another TX pea from the old board. alissa103 - yes, I did go to DePauw Univ in Indiana - my dh and ds went to Wabash College in Indiana, and my dd texanvixen is the SBC alum. I am a big supporter of private colleges, while not the option for all, those that can, do benefit from them FAR more than the classroom learning. I am proud of my dd for what she has posted, and I am supporting her, and her fellow alums in the effort to try and save to school, or as she said, build a scholarship base for those who were promised scholarships. And since my dd last posted, she reports that a member of the family that founded the college has gotten involved, evidently a lawyer, and is interested in saving the school. Thank you everyone for sticking with us!
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Post by txdancermom on Mar 4, 2015 19:45:59 GMT
Moveablefeast - I don't think they fully made the situation known to the donors to the college. I have not seen anything in recent appeals that indicated that the financial situation was this tenuous, and the fact that they are building (new library and maybe a new residence hall?) seemed to indicate to others that things were going along ok, they were recruiting and all right up to Monday from what I have heard.
As for the encumbered endowment, from what I have heard, the Board claimed they did not want to go to court to try and get the encumbrances released, well now they are faced with going to court to defend their position to close. I think trying to get the encumbrances, or some of them released and a massive appeal to the SBC community, would have done the trick.
From what I am hearing now, the various groups that are interested in saving the school are getting together and there are lawyers involved, to make sure this is done the right way.
Whatever anyone does, please keep the current students, who can't graduate this year, in your thoughts and prayers. their lives are being disrupted, they are about to go on Spring Break (I think) and they have no assurances of where they will be next year.
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texanvixen
New Member
Posts: 5
Mar 4, 2015 16:33:07 GMT
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Post by texanvixen on Mar 4, 2015 19:47:06 GMT
The president and board keep saying that they have done this now to do the honorable, moral, and ethical thing. But in my opinion, the honorable thing would have been for the president, board, and any other high administrator to take a pay cut or no pay at all and let the school wind down over the next year, graduate the class of 2015, and maybe 2016 but going through the 2016 school year would at least give students time to look into other schools and options. Finding a right fit for a college is not easy and asking the students to find a new home in a matter of weeks is irresponsible and by no means honorable, ethical, or moral. I didn't get the impression they had that option. Of $84m left in the endowment, $56m is encumbered, leaving less than $30m to use freely for operating expenses. If they can't cover a year of operating expenses, or if austerity measures will cost critical staff or cause the graduating class to be unable to get the classes they need to graduate, or in the worst case scenario causes an interruption in operations mid year - what happens then? Something very severe had to have happened to cause them to make such an abrupt and untimely decision. I doubt that they had the option to continue operations if this was the decision they made. I agree that something severe had to have happened but from what the president said they could have declared financial exigencies and gone before a judge to get a court order to free up the encumbered $66 million. If this would have allowed them to wind things down in a manner so that the students could have time to really find a new home (not after transfer deadlines have passed, as they have now) this would be the best situation. At the same time, declaring financial exigences would send out an SOS to the alumnae base and allow donations to come in to at least ensure that if the school does close, it is able to do so with the sufficient time needed for everyone to find a new academic home.
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Post by ShesaRenegade on Mar 4, 2015 21:32:55 GMT
Small colleges are having issues because of the advent of online degrees. Enrollment is down at many universities, including mine, which brings less tuition into the institution. Less tuition means the university can't meet it's operating costs, faculty cuts, etc. But hey, everyone wants to go to college in their jammies, right?This is rude and wildly inaccurate about the motivations of students who choose online learning.
The rise in the cost of attending college is a major factor for people who choose to earn degrees through online options. Attending online classes allows students who have to work, options they otherwise would not have. Learning via webinars and online courses requires dedication, focus, independence, and maturity. Students must be excellent readers and writers.
I have been a full time remote worker with a technology company for over 15 years so have a pretty good understanding of what is required to be successful at working/learning online, from a remote location.
Being able to work in my p.j.'s if I choose is a perk but isn't the reason I work remotely. I'm sure the same is true for remote students.
Have you not seen the television advertisements that have that stupid song in them about going to college in your jammies? It's starting to play again now as students are applying to colleges. That's where I pulled that from. Sorry to offend you. I get it - you are a student that has taken online courses and you needed to take them in this format because of your work demands. Totally understand. However, I am a university professor and see things much differently as I am on the other side of academia. Tuition money decreases every year, especially since online courses have started. Faculty members are being forced to teach online courses or potentially lose our jobs. It sounds like this is most likely playing a part in the closing of Sweet Briar College. Finally, your statement "Students must be excellent readers and writers" in online courses is wildly inaccurate!! If only you knew...
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 13:34:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 21:46:41 GMT
This is rude and wildly inaccurate about the motivations of students who choose online learning.
The rise in the cost of attending college is a major factor for people who choose to earn degrees through online options. Attending online classes allows students who have to work, options they otherwise would not have. Learning via webinars and online courses requires dedication, focus, independence, and maturity. Students must be excellent readers and writers.
I have been a full time remote worker with a technology company for over 15 years so have a pretty good understanding of what is required to be successful at working/learning online, from a remote location.
Being able to work in my p.j.'s if I choose is a perk but isn't the reason I work remotely. I'm sure the same is true for remote students.
Have you not seen the television advertisements that have that stupid song in them about going to college in your jammies? It's starting to play again now as students are applying to colleges. That's where I pulled that from. Sorry to offend you. I get it - you are a student that has taken online courses and you needed to take them in this format because of your work demands. Totally understand. However, I am a university professor and see things much differently as I am on the other side of academia. Tuition money decreases every year, especially since online courses have started. Faculty members are being forced to teach online courses or potentially lose our jobs. It sounds like this is most likely playing a part in the closing of Sweet Briar College. Finally, your statement "Students must be excellent readers and writers" in online courses is wildly inaccurate!! If only you knew...Are you suggesting that students in on-campus courses are better readers and writers than those in online courses? Because I saw her statement as saying that students would have to be excellent communicators in order to succeed in online coursework. I totally disagree that people who choose online learning make that choice so they can 'go to school in their jammies.' I'm kind of disappointed that those in academia seem to have such a low opinion of online courses. College costs are unbelievably ridiculous, and it's assy to expect students to just keep absorbing that cost instead of searching out alternatives.
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Post by anxiousmom on Mar 4, 2015 21:56:46 GMT
Have you not seen the television advertisements that have that stupid song in them about going to college in your jammies? It's starting to play again now as students are applying to colleges. That's where I pulled that from. Sorry to offend you. I get it - you are a student that has taken online courses and you needed to take them in this format because of your work demands. Totally understand. However, I am a university professor and see things much differently as I am on the other side of academia. Tuition money decreases every year, especially since online courses have started. Faculty members are being forced to teach online courses or potentially lose our jobs. It sounds like this is most likely playing a part in the closing of Sweet Briar College. Finally, your statement "Students must be excellent readers and writers" in online courses is wildly inaccurate!! If only you knew...Are you suggesting that students in on-campus courses are better readers and writers than those in online courses? Because I saw her statement as saying that students would have to be excellent communicators in order to succeed in online coursework. I totally disagree that people who choose online learning make that choice so they can 'go to school in their jammies.' I'm kind of disappointed that those in academia seem to have such a low opinion of online courses. College costs are unbelievably ridiculous, and it's assy to expect students to just keep absorbing that cost instead of searching out alternatives. If I were to pursue a Master's Degree, I would have to do it on line. I do have a local option, but the the programs are limited (small private school) to education or business-neither are what I want. My options are incredibly limited and online/distance learning programs are my best bet. Frankly, online is my LEAST favorite way to go. My first (or second, or third even) choice would NOT be online, it would be in person, in a classroom. My learning style is not compatible with online learning, but because of my location, my choices are slim...online or driving two hours one way in an unreliable car. I will be honest though, it would be incredibly disappointing to me to think that the professors who teach the online classes would be so resentful that they have to do so.
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Post by kkooch on Mar 4, 2015 23:15:26 GMT
I know there is talk of the four colleges that will accept them but I know that there will be other colleges reaching out (I work at an all woman's college and I know we will be reaching out to them in some way). I obviously know no details etc but I am pretty positive that they will have further options. I do feel bad for all involved though.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 13:34:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2015 23:49:35 GMT
Lot of very simplistic knowledge showing up. And lots that is not known about SB's true condition.. I'm not so sure the school owes the alumni any explanation.
Encumbering assets is more than just going to a judge and having him say "yes" Bonds are an encumbered asset that becomes worth pennies on the dollar if they were to become unencumbered. If those bonds are part of the retirement funds of faculty/staff that is already retired it would be stripping them instead of saving a student.
Encumbered assets can also be promissory notes. I pledge 10 million to the remodeling of a dormitory. The school doesn't actually have the funds sitting in a bank account. I have the funds. They have a contractual "promise". If they don't carry out their end of the contract to remodel the dorm I don't have to carry out my end of the contract to pay for it. A judge can't force me to pay for an unfilled contract.
Depending on where the school is in their re-accreditation cycle they may be about to lose their regional accreditation. Keeping the school open another year means those credits earned may not be transferable. So the year would be lost to the students anyway. If that is the case a fast closing is the ethical thing to do for the students. There is a lot that goes into being accredited. The recent library upgrade could signal an issue with not having the required support (library, lab facilities, internship opportunities) to keep their regional accreditation. The article I read noted the school is far from any economic center. While the 20 minutes to starbucks is a bit of a jest it does point up to the lack of internship options that are vital to current student's education. That is going to be a ding on their score sheet for academic sustainability if they are entering the final phase of an accreditation cycle.
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Post by hop2 on Mar 4, 2015 23:55:38 GMT
A) texanvixen, you are a well spoken passionate young lady. I wish you luck with this eneadvor.
B) the online courses I have taken have all cost the same per credit hour as in person classes with potentially much less over head. So if online courses were nipping at the incoming student maybe it's time to offer some. That's what small local colleges here have done. They cater to 'flex' students meaning ones who have to work full jobs and then go to school.
C) I do feel badly for all concerned staff and students. It's a sudden thing to happen and so many difficulties involved. I get why texanvixen is so angry for the scholarship students. Going thru this process right now with my DD and she is down to 2 schools and will definitely have to turn down scholarship money from one or the other so to loose that halfway thru would probably force her out of her degree. There is less money for transfer students and nothing left after deadlines have past. That would totally suck.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 13:34:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 0:01:41 GMT
I wager that there will be plenty of other liberal arts institutions that will extend simplified transfer options (and flexible/extended application dates) to these displaced students. There may only be official agreements with four colleges at the moment, but I bet they will have more choices now that this is public. It's really not that many students that need to be absorbed elsewhere.
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Deleted
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May 19, 2024 13:34:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 0:05:38 GMT
Online courses at my school are more expensive than class courses. The overhead for internet infrastructure can be considerable. I don't know any student who chooses them so they can stay in their jammies. But lots choose to pay the extra fees so they can earn an education while working an unpredictable job schedule (as many retail minimum wage jobs are)
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Post by dillydally on Mar 5, 2015 4:42:58 GMT
I heard about this today at work, so I have not had time to read much about it. Since I work at a small liberal arts college, in the financial department, and I'm from Virginia, this hits close to home. My gut reaction is to be surprised that they would close so quickly - partially feeling bad for the incoming class of freshmen who now have to figure out where to go, the juniors who won't be able to get their degree from a school they love, and the staff/faculty who know they will be out of a job and partially because logistically, it surprises me they could move so fast - but then again, if staff/faculty know they need to find a job, could they keep the college properly staffed if they stayed open longer? I'll read more about the situation and the decision tomorrow and see if I have the same opinion.
Texanvixen - thanks for your views; I've skimmed through, but want to go back and read more closely. It would be great if alumnae/donors could come up with enough in donations to save the school. I wonder how much would need to be raised to do that.
I am assuming that the "$85M endowment" is referring to the market value of the endowments investments, rather than the endowment "fund" (but like I said, I haven't read the articles or looked at the financial statements yet.) If that is the case, pledges wouldn't be part of that value; they are included in the college's net assets (at a discounted rate - I have to do that calculation and I HATE it), but not the endowment MV. However, in a similar vein, depending on what investments make up the endowment's portfolio, even the unrestricted portion of the endowment may not be easily converted to cash; just because an investment is held and has been valued, doesn't mean it is liquid or there is a buyer for it. And for the permanently restricted portion, they would need to get donor approval or if the donor is deceased, court approval - that doesn't seem like it would be a quick process either.
Sad all around.
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bandjmom
Full Member
Posts: 197
Jun 25, 2014 23:28:19 GMT
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Post by bandjmom on Mar 5, 2015 8:04:07 GMT
Wow! Kettering is the former GM Institute, tracing its origins to 1919. It offers engineering, business and pre-med programs with students required to complete 5 terms of co-op work and a major project for their employer. Neither I nor any of my immediate family members are alums or current students, but I grew up in Michigan and know it is certainly not a "made up" school. For students who chose to attend a small, private school, Kettering's size and program organization would seem to be a more logical option than a large engineering program at an even larger university.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Mar 5, 2015 12:54:18 GMT
Have you not seen the television advertisements that have that stupid song in them about going to college in your jammies? It's starting to play again now as students are applying to colleges. That's where I pulled that from. Sorry to offend you. I get it - you are a student that has taken online courses and you needed to take them in this format because of your work demands. Totally understand. However, I am a university professor and see things much differently as I am on the other side of academia. Tuition money decreases every year, especially since online courses have started. Faculty members are being forced to teach online courses or potentially lose our jobs. It sounds like this is most likely playing a part in the closing of Sweet Briar College. Finally, your statement "Students must be excellent readers and writers" in online courses is wildly inaccurate!! If only you knew...Are you suggesting that students in on-campus courses are better readers and writers than those in online courses? Because I saw her statement as saying that students would have to be excellent communicators in order to succeed in online coursework. I totally disagree that people who choose online learning make that choice so they can 'go to school in their jammies.' I'm kind of disappointed that those in academia seem to have such a low opinion of online courses. College costs are unbelievably ridiculous, and it's assy to expect students to just keep absorbing that cost instead of searching out alternatives. Are we talking about proper online courses from a proper university or college or are we talking about the bullshit scam schools like DeVry and that sort of thing? Because those are two different kettles of fish. Courses from a place like Ryerson University, with professors teaching the same class in real time in an actual classroom and then the same class online is one thing, and actually legit. The other ones, like DeVry or whatever the latest one is? Total bollocks and a waste of money since no one I know takes them seriously. So I think there's definitely a disparity when it comes to online course work, and it depends on the source of the courses. I've never heard of an online course being cheaper than the in class course, at a proper institution you would be paying the same course fees, so hearing that there are "cheaper" options makes me question their validity. And I feel really bad for the students of Sweet Briar who got screwed over by their administration by announcing the close after the transfer deadline. I have to wonder if it was a deliberate tactic of the administration to avoid a mass exodus and panic because there is no way that the administration didn't see this coming.
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Post by deep on Mar 5, 2015 13:37:47 GMT
Wow! Kettering is the former GM Institute, tracing its origins to 1919. It offers engineering, business and pre-med programs with students required to complete 5 terms of co-op work and a major project for their employer. Neither I nor any of my immediate family members are alums or current students, but I grew up in Michigan and know it is certainly not a "made up" school. For students who chose to attend a small, private school, Kettering's size and program organization would seem to be a more logical option than a large engineering program at an even larger university. I know Kettering is a well respected school especially for engineering, but its Flint,MI location, approximately 2000 students, 80% male student population, and majority of the students living off campus is definitely a different culture than the one chosen by a Sweet Briar student. So though it may be a slam dunk academically, it may be a difficult transition none the less.
I did find it interesting that on the last Forbes report, they gave Sweet Briar an "A" in their financial ratings of liberal arts colleges. If I even had the wisdom to consider the financial status of a college in my search for a place for my kids, that doesn't give me any confidence that there is a good way to screen for it. Heck I would have said $95 Million...they are all set! So I may be completely ignorant, but I'm surprised that there is any indication that the parents, students, alums should have known this was coming.
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bandjmom
Full Member
Posts: 197
Jun 25, 2014 23:28:19 GMT
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Post by bandjmom on Mar 5, 2015 13:49:31 GMT
Oh, I understand there are lots of factors to consider, the "made up school" comment just jumped out at me.
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Post by ShesaRenegade on Mar 5, 2015 15:05:51 GMT
Are you suggesting that students in on-campus courses are better readers and writers than those in online courses? Because I saw her statement as saying that students would have to be excellent communicators in order to succeed in online coursework. I totally disagree that people who choose online learning make that choice so they can 'go to school in their jammies.' I'm kind of disappointed that those in academia seem to have such a low opinion of online courses. College costs are unbelievably ridiculous, and it's assy to expect students to just keep absorbing that cost instead of searching out alternatives. If I were to pursue a Master's Degree, I would have to do it on line. I do have a local option, but the the programs are limited (small private school) to education or business-neither are what I want. My options are incredibly limited and online/distance learning programs are my best bet. Frankly, online is my LEAST favorite way to go. My first (or second, or third even) choice would NOT be online, it would be in person, in a classroom. My learning style is not compatible with online learning, but because of my location, my choices are slim...online or driving two hours one way in an unreliable car. I will be honest though, it would be incredibly disappointing to me to think that the professors who teach the online classes would be so resentful that they have to do so. I am definitely not resentful at all towards online courses, nor are the faculty I work with. In fact, I teach an online course in addition to my regular on-campus courses. What I'm simply saying (although apparently not well) is that there is has to be a dividing line between on-campus vs. online learning, and that the majority of universities today are leaning towards moving a lot of courses and degrees online. Not all degrees can be taught online. Would you want your medical doctor to have earned his/her degree online? What about an engineer or architect that is building a high-rise building that you are going to be working in? Small colleges, like Sweet Briar, simply cannot keep up with this demand for online courses and their student populations are diminishing as a result. Student populations diminishing = decreased tuition money = closing. I also agree with grinningcat...not all online institutions are made of the same cloth. There is no way my university would hire someone in my field that had an online degree. Anyway, I hope I've articulated my feelings better in this response. I'm truly not online-education bashing, just trying to explain why I think this may be happening to Sweet Briar and other small colleges.
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