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Post by epeanymous on Mar 5, 2015 0:04:45 GMT
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Post by SabrinaM on Mar 5, 2015 0:10:58 GMT
I predict that there will be a sizable portion of GOP members, some even on this board, that will say "well, I don't agree with him on this issue, but I like his stance on X, Y, or Z, so I'm voting for him because of that." Sadly, If he said something that was something clearly racist, that argument wouldn't float for many, but homophobia still gets a pass by many, even if they don't agree with it. I don't think he's even got a chance in the top 5, so I'm not all that worried about him. Honestly, I think this country has a lot more pressing issues than what some knucklehead thinks about sexuality. I'm sorry, we just do. I'm Libertarian, so I don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom.
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Post by elaine on Mar 5, 2015 0:26:50 GMT
I predict that there will be a sizable portion of GOP members, some even on this board, that will say "well, I don't agree with him on this issue, but I like his stance on X, Y, or Z, so I'm voting for him because of that." Sadly, If he said something that was something clearly racist, that argument wouldn't float for many, but homophobia still gets a pass by many, even if they don't agree with it. I don't think he's even got a chance in the top 5, so I'm not all that worried about him. Honestly, I think this country has a lot more pressing issues than what some knucklehead thinks about sexuality. I'm sorry, we just do. I'm Libertarian, so I don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. I SO agree that we have more pressing issues! Which is why I don't understand why politicians and judges in Alabama are more concerned with stopping same-sex marriage than with improving their schools, for example.
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Post by Merge on Mar 5, 2015 0:27:48 GMT
I keep coming back to this thread to reply and can't think of anything polite or thoughtful to say, so I'll just say this:
It's 2015. This kind of baseless belief shouldn't even be part of the national conversation.
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back to *pea*ality
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
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Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Post by back to *pea*ality on Mar 5, 2015 0:48:55 GMT
I predict that there will be a sizable portion of GOP members, some even on this board, that will say "well, I don't agree with him on this issue, but I like his stance on X, Y, or Z, so I'm voting for him because of that." Sadly, If he said something that was something clearly racist, that argument wouldn't float for many, but homophobia still gets a pass by many, even if they don't agree with it. I don't agree with anything Ben Carson said. Did democrats withhold their votes from Obama in 2008 when he said marriage was between a man and a woman and he didn't believe in gay marriage?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 0:53:52 GMT
I don't think he's even got a chance in the top 5, so I'm not all that worried about him. Honestly, I think this country has a lot more pressing issues than what some knucklehead thinks about sexuality. I'm sorry, we just do. I'm Libertarian, so I don't care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. I SO agree that we have more pressing issues! Which is why I don't understand why politicians and judges in Alabama are more concerned with stopping same-sex marriage than with improving their schools, for example.
No kidding! or like that Governor of Kansas who has literally bankrupted that state and gutted their educational system.
But, Dr. Carson seems to be on an awful lot of conservative's hopeful lists, but these type of statements will come back and bite him in the ass so I don't see much future for him. Just as well.
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Post by lucyg on Mar 5, 2015 1:27:13 GMT
I don't see why anyone is surprised about this. The man has a great life story, and maybe he's a wonderful person (I understand he IS a wonderful surgeon), but ever since he appeared on the national scene, he's been espousing these extreme right-wing, hardcore Christian fundamentalist views.
There's nothing out of character going on here. He isn't pandering. This is the real Dr. Ben Carson.
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Post by Skypea on Mar 5, 2015 1:37:33 GMT
I saw that on tv this morning. Ignorance, no matter how well educated a man is, can rear its ugly head. Though, truly, in this day and age, I can't believe anyone says that kind of crap without a whole lot of hate in them. I'm sure you can't...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 1:38:43 GMT
I predict that there will be a sizable portion of GOP members, some even on this board, that will say "well, I don't agree with him on this issue, but I like his stance on X, Y, or Z, so I'm voting for him because of that." Sadly, If he said something that was something clearly racist, that argument wouldn't float for many, but homophobia still gets a pass by many, even if they don't agree with it. I don't agree with anything Ben Carson said. Did democrats withhold their votes from Obama in 2008 when he said marriage was between a man and a woman and he didn't believe in gay marriage? No but there is a theory that one of the reasons Kerry lost the Presidential election was because of what Gavin Newsom did in San Francisco. As mayor he had the city clerk issue marriage licenses to same sex couples. At the time folks in both parties weren't ready for this to happened and felt that if a Democrat was President same sex marriages would spread. Democrats stayed home and Republicans came out to vote. Yes I know Kerry had problems with what he did or didn't do in Vietnam but a lot folks just didn't want to see same sex marriages either and Bush wasn't popular as President. At the time I was pissed at Newsom and felt he should have waited until after the election. Now I'm glad he didn't.
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Post by Tamhugh on Mar 5, 2015 1:48:26 GMT
I don't see why anyone is surprised about this. The man has a great life story, and maybe he's a wonderful person (I understand he IS a wonderful surgeon), but ever since he appeared on the national scene, he's been espousing these extreme right-wing, hardcore Christian fundamentalist views. There's nothing out of character going on here. He isn't pandering. This is the real Dr. Ben Carson. I am surprised that people are surprised at his views. We have a family friend whose son is ultra-conservative. He loves Ben Carson. He is always encouraging me to look into his views. As soon as I did, I knew he was not a candidate that I would vote for.
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Post by anxiousmom on Mar 5, 2015 1:51:41 GMT
I keep coming back to this thread to reply and can't think of anything polite or thoughtful to say, so I'll just say this: It's 2015. This kind of baseless belief shouldn't even be part of the national conversation. I am right there with you... And I just read that he has now come out with an apology.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 2:08:24 GMT
I just don't get why others care who other people marry. If you don't like/agree with gay marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. It is that simple. Why do you care? No church will be forced perform a marriage for anyone. They don't now. Churches can choose who can marry there or not. Just let it go. You can't force your religious beliefs on the country. It is really that simple. And I certainly didn't choose to be straight, no one chooses to be gay either. :S
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tenakee
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Aug 9, 2014 2:05:19 GMT
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Post by tenakee on Mar 5, 2015 2:17:49 GMT
So, using his logic that some people "choose" to be gay after being in prison (with the implication because they had gay sex), can we assume that he didn't "choose" to be straight until after the first time he got lucky with a girl? SMH
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Post by Merge on Mar 5, 2015 2:30:50 GMT
I predict that there will be a sizable portion of GOP members, some even on this board, that will say "well, I don't agree with him on this issue, but I like his stance on X, Y, or Z, so I'm voting for him because of that." Sadly, If he said something that was something clearly racist, that argument wouldn't float for many, but homophobia still gets a pass by many, even if they don't agree with it. I don't agree with anything Ben Carson said. Did democrats withhold their votes from Obama in 2008 when he said marriage was between a man and a woman and he didn't believe in gay marriage? This one did. I didn't vote for him either time. IMO anyone who would deny basic civil rights to others doesn't deserve to hold office.
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Post by ptamom on Mar 5, 2015 2:35:59 GMT
If he truly wants to settle the issue, he will volunteer to serve the appropriate time in prison deemed to turn one gay.
If he comes out gay, I will entertain his hypothesis.
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ingrid
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Jun 26, 2014 0:52:41 GMT
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Post by ingrid on Mar 5, 2015 2:46:52 GMT
I don't see why anyone is surprised about this. The man has a great life story, and maybe he's a wonderful person (I understand he IS a wonderful surgeon), but ever since he appeared on the national scene, he's been espousing these extreme right-wing, hardcore Christian fundamentalist views. There's nothing out of character going on here. He isn't pandering. This is the real Dr. Ben Carson. I'm not surprised when conservatives play the, "I'm just not comfortable with calling it marriage" game, or cop-out by saying it should be left up to individual states to decide on equal rights issues. I guess what surprised me is that an accomplished medical professional actually believes people choose to be gay and, in his mind, the fact that prisoners will sometimes enter into a same-sex relationship with other inmates validates his belief. I didn't expect that level of ignorance from Carson.
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Post by snowsilver on Mar 5, 2015 4:06:48 GMT
For those who are interested here is his statement of apology:
"In a recent interview on CNN, I realized that my choice of language does not reflect fully my heart on gay issues.
I do not pretend to know how every individual came to their sexual orientation. I regret that my words to express that concept were hurtful and divisive. For that I apologize unreservedly to all that were offended.
I'm a doctor trained in multiple fields of medicine, who was blessed to work at perhaps the finest institution of medical knowledge in the world. Some of our brightest minds have looked at this debate, and up until this point there have been no definitive studies that people are born into a specific sexuality. We do know, however, that we are always born male and female. And I know that we are all made in God's image, which means we are all deserving of respect and dignity.
I support human rights and Constitutional protections for gay people, and I have done so for many years. I support civil unions for gay couples, and I have done so for many years. I support the right of individual states to sanction gay marriage, and I support the right of individual states to deny gay marriage in their respective jurisdictions.
I also think that marriage is a religious institution. Religious marriage is an oath before God and congregation. Religious marriage must only be governed by the church. Judges and government must not be allowed to restrict religious beliefs.
I am not a politician and I answered a question without really thinking about it thoroughly. No excuses. I deeply regret my statement and I promise you, on this journey, I may err again, but unlike politicians when I make an error I will take full responsibility and never hide or parse words. As a human being my obligation is to learn from my mistakes and to treat all people with respect and dignity."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 4:10:41 GMT
I admire Ben Carson greatly for his groundbreaking work in neurosurgery, his ideas on the economical issues this country faces and that he is a Constitutionalist. However, as a fiscal conservative and social liberal, his views on homosexuality give me great pause. Personally, I hate that homosexuality has become a playground ball in politics. But it seems it must be, just as Civil Rights were not so long ago. L
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 4:18:54 GMT
Not calling you out specifically, but this is a sentiment I see a lot on here. Why would you not vote for a man over an opinion/statement about an issue that isn't likely to be anything he deals with from the Oval Office anyhow?
When I look for a president, I measure his strategy and plan to address things that he will be asked to make direct decisions on for our country: foreign affairs, military moves, immigration, economic strength in terms of budgets and taxes. Social issues, in reality, are left to states to determine and the courts to be the arbitrator of what is Constititutional. A candidate's opinion on gay marriage, abortion, civil rights, which religion he follows, ... these make up his personality but not his executive leadership potential.
Now, having said all that, I've never intended to vote for Ben Carson because I don't think he has the experience to survive in Washington yet, and he needs to take a few other leadership steps in a political arena before he has the chops for the highest office in the land. In my opinion, this country has already tried that experiment where we put a man with little executive experience in that seat, and I didn't like the outcome.
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Post by snowsilver on Mar 5, 2015 4:20:39 GMT
Not calling you out specifically, but this is a sentiment I see a lot on here. Why would you not vote for a man over an opinion/statement about an issue that isn't likely to be anything he deals with from the Oval Office anyhow? When I look for a president, I measure his strategy and plan for things addressing our nation that he will be asked to make direct decisions on: foreign affairs, military moves, immigration, economic strength in terms of budgets and taxes. Social issues, in reality, are left to states to determine and the courts to be the arbitrator of what is Constititutional. A candidate's opinion on gay marriage, abortion, civil rights, which religion he follows, ... these make up his personality but not his executive leadership potential. Now, having said all that, I've never intended to vote for Ben Carson because I don't think he has the experience to survive in Washington yet, and he needs to take a few other leadership steps in a political arena before he has the chops for the highest office in the land. In my opinion, this country has already tried that experiment where we put a man with little executive experience in that seat, and I didn't like the outcome.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 4:21:16 GMT
For those who are interested here is his statement of apology: "In a recent interview on CNN, I realized that my choice of language does not reflect fully my heart on gay issues. I do not pretend to know how every individual came to their sexual orientation. I regret that my words to express that concept were hurtful and divisive. For that I apologize unreservedly to all that were offended. I'm a doctor trained in multiple fields of medicine, who was blessed to work at perhaps the finest institution of medical knowledge in the world. Some of our brightest minds have looked at this debate, and up until this point there have been no definitive studies that people are born into a specific sexuality. We do know, however, that we are always born male and female. And I know that we are all made in God's image, which means we are all deserving of respect and dignity. I support human rights and Constitutional protections for gay people, and I have done so for many years. I support civil unions for gay couples, and I have done so for many years. I support the right of individual states to sanction gay marriage, and I support the right of individual states to deny gay marriage in their respective jurisdictions. I also think that marriage is a religious institution. Religious marriage is an oath before God and congregation. Religious marriage must only be governed by the church. Judges and government must not be allowed to restrict religious beliefs. I am not a politician and I answered a question without really thinking about it thoroughly. No excuses. I deeply regret my statement and I promise you, on this journey, I may err again, but unlike politicians when I make an error I will take full responsibility and never hide or parse words. As a human being my obligation is to learn from my mistakes and to treat all people with respect and dignity." Dr Carson needs to know that my religion and many others are okay with gay MARRIAGE. Christianity doesn't own marriage alone by any means. Drives me nuts. And no, we are not always born male or female.
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Post by snowsilver on Mar 5, 2015 4:23:36 GMT
Not calling you out specifically, but this is a sentiment I see a lot on here. Why would you not vote for a man over an opinion/statement about an issue that isn't likely to be anything he deals with from the Oval Office anyhow? When I look for a president, I measure his strategy and plan for things addressing our nation that he will be asked to make direct decisions on: foreign affairs, military moves, immigration, economic strength in terms of budgets and taxes. Social issues, in reality, are left to states to determine and the courts to be the arbitrator of what is Constititutional. A candidate's opinion on gay marriage, abortion, civil rights, which religion he follows, ... these make up his personality but not his executive leadership potential. Now, having said all that, I've never intended to vote for Ben Carson because I don't think he has the experience to survive in Washington yet, and he needs to take a few other leadership steps in a political arena before he has the chops for the highest office in the land. In my opinion, this country has already tried that experiment where we put a man with little executive experience in that seat, and I didn't like the outcome. Still haven't figured out how to do a real quote here--never seems to work for me. But I really agree with you Julie. Honestly, I'm stunned at how people who consider themselves liberal can judge a man on ONE opinion--a man who has saved countless lives and who is considered by most who know him to be a brilliant and kind man. But--that aside, he absolutely does not have the experience to run for this office.
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ingrid
Full Member
Posts: 490
Jun 26, 2014 0:52:41 GMT
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Post by ingrid on Mar 5, 2015 4:49:33 GMT
Not calling you out specifically, but this is a sentiment I see a lot on here. Why would you not vote for a man over an opinion/statement about an issue that isn't likely to be anything he deals with from the Oval Office anyhow? When I look for a president, I measure his strategy and plan for things addressing our nation that he will be asked to make direct decisions on: foreign affairs, military moves, immigration, economic strength in terms of budgets and taxes. Social issues, in reality, are left to states to determine and the courts to be the arbitrator of what is Constititutional. A candidate's opinion on gay marriage, abortion, civil rights, which religion he follows, ... these make up his personality but not his executive leadership potential. Now, having said all that, I've never intended to vote for Ben Carson because I don't think he has the experience to survive in Washington yet, and he needs to take a few other leadership steps in a political arena before he has the chops for the highest office in the land. In my opinion, this country has already tried that experiment where we put a man with little executive experience in that seat, and I didn't like the outcome. Still haven't figured out how to do a real quote here--never seems to work for me. But I really agree with you Julie. Honestly, I'm stunned at how people who consider themselves liberal can judge a man on ONE opinion--a man who has saved countless lives and who is considered by most who know him to be a brilliant and kind man. But--that aside, he absolutely does not have the experience to run for this office. I'm not liberal, but if you truly believe people choose to be gay and that evolution is just "a bunch of propaganda," I don't really trust you around nuclear weapons. ETA- Link to evolution thing Carson on theory of evolution
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Post by snowsilver on Mar 5, 2015 4:59:50 GMT
I'm not liberal, but if you truly believe people choose to be gay and that evolution is just "a bunch of propaganda," I don't really trust you around nuclear weapons. ETA- Link to evolution thing Carson on theory of evolutionBut I don't understand that way of thinking, Ingrid. There are thousands and thousands of highly educated people (far more educated than either you or I) who believe in Intelligent Design. And I'm not just talking liberal arts educated either--there are many scientists who do not believe the earth evolved (I'm not discussing evolution here per say--I do understand that evolution takes place all the time). I'm talking about how the earth came into existence. It is just nonsense to suppose that there aren't equally brilliant people on BOTH sides of the fence on this one. I do not understand what that has to do with having the power to unleash nuclear weapons. And I'm pretty sure if you read Dr. Carson's apology, you will find that he, himself does not believe a person "chooses" to be gay. There are differing opinions from equally brilliant people on this as well. Personally I will NEVER vote on a social issues. As Julie pointed out, these things are handled by states generally anyway. I care far more about terrorism, taxes, personal freedoms and the loss thereof, etc. etc. Those are the issues that secure my vote.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 5:02:40 GMT
I'm not liberal, but if you truly believe people choose to be gay and that evolution is just "a bunch of propaganda," I don't really trust you around nuclear weapons. ETA- Link to evolution thing Carson on theory of evolutionBut I don't understand that way of thinking, Ingrid. There are thousands and thousands of highly educated people (far more educated than either you or I) who believe in Intelligent Design. And I'm not just talking liberal arts educated either--there are many scientists who do not believe the earth evolved (I'm not discussing evolution here per say--I do understand that evolution takes place all the time). I'm talking about how the earth came into existence. It is just nonsense to suppose that equally brilliant people are on BOTH sides of the fence on this one. I do not understand what that has to do with having the power to unleash nuclear weapons. And I'm pretty sure if you read Dr. Carson's apology, you will find that he, himself does not believe a person "chooses" to be gay. There are differing opinions from equally brilliant people on this as well. Personally I will NEVER vote on a social issues. As Julie pointed out, these things are handled by states generally anyway. I care far more about terrorism, taxes, personal freedoms and the loss thereof, etc. etc. Those are the issues that secure my vote. To many gay rights aren't a social issue, they are a civil rights issue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 5:23:06 GMT
Honestly, I'm stunned at how people who consider themselves liberal can judge a man on ONE opinion-- I don't believe it's the one opinion that did it. I think most of the people that is coming from, have already made up their mind about him and are using this one opinion of his as proof that their opinion of him was right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2015 6:09:07 GMT
Personally I will NEVER vote on a social issues. As Julie pointed out, these things are handled by states generally anyway. I care far more about terrorism, taxes, personal freedoms and the loss thereof, etc. etc. Those are the issues that secure my vote. Isn't this exactly what we're talking about? Personal freedoms.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Mar 5, 2015 7:14:52 GMT
I'm not liberal, but if you truly believe people choose to be gay and that evolution is just "a bunch of propaganda," I don't really trust you around nuclear weapons. ETA- Link to evolution thing Carson on theory of evolutionBut I don't understand that way of thinking, Ingrid. There are thousands and thousands of highly educated people (far more educated than either you or I) who believe in Intelligent Design. And I'm not just talking liberal arts educated either--there are many scientists who do not believe the earth evolved (I'm not discussing evolution here per say--I do understand that evolution takes place all the time). I'm talking about how the earth came into existence. It is just nonsense to suppose that there aren't equally brilliant people on BOTH sides of the fence on this one. I do not understand what that has to do with having the power to unleash nuclear weapons. And I'm pretty sure if you read Dr. Carson's apology, you will find that he, himself does not believe a person "chooses" to be gay. There are differing opinions from equally brilliant people on this as well. Personally I will NEVER vote on a social issues. As Julie pointed out, these things are handled by states generally anyway. I care far more about terrorism, taxes, personal freedoms and the loss thereof, etc. etc. Those are the issues that secure my vote. I would love to see these thousands of scientists who don't believe the earth evolved. I don't for one second believe that's true, and if it is then I don't care how educated they are, they clearly aren't very bright since they don't understand science.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
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Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Mar 5, 2015 7:17:00 GMT
I don't agree with anything Ben Carson said. Did democrats withhold their votes from Obama in 2008 when he said marriage was between a man and a woman and he didn't believe in gay marriage? This one did. I didn't vote for him either time. IMO anyone who would deny basic civil rights to others doesn't deserve to hold office. I'm not a democrat (independent here), but I didn't vote for Obama either. In fact the last election I voted 3rd party.
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Post by Skypea on Mar 5, 2015 7:46:41 GMT
I just don't get why others care who other people marry. If you don't like/agree with gay marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex. It is that simple. Why do you care? No church will be forced perform a marriage for anyone. They don't now. Churches can choose who can marry there or not. Just let it go. You can't force your religious beliefs on the country. It is really that simple. And I certainly didn't choose to be straight, no one chooses to be gay either. :S Then why are those of you who support gay marriage trying to force yours on others?
did Carson say he'd declare gay marriage dead? Is it up to a president to do this?
I'd say maybe so looking at DBO but, he isn't a president now, is he? Could be there won't even be an election in 2016. so many are jumping to conclusions.
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