|
|
Post by annabella on Apr 15, 2015 17:11:25 GMT
How is it that Rainbow and Lynlam are ALWAYS on the opposite side of all the refupeas in every single situation? It boggles the mind. I don't know, I put Rainbow on ignore a long time ago because she always writes in a big colored font. Since I view this website in the blue layout, it's hard to read. I don't get why someone would be bothered to take the extra time to change her font for every post? |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 13:38:20 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 17:19:07 GMT
How is it that Rainbow and Lynlam are ALWAYS on the opposite side of all the refupeas in every single situation? It boggles the mind. I don't know, I put Rainbow on ignore a long time ago because she always writes in a big colored font. Since I view this website in the blue layout, it's hard to read. I don't get why someone would be bothered to take the extra time to change her font for every post? You don't have to change it for every post. You can set it to what you want. Same with the theme of the website. You don't have to use the blue. I'm partial to the purple. |
|
|
|
Post by Yubon Peatlejuice on Apr 15, 2015 17:29:31 GMT
How is it that Rainbow and Lynlam are ALWAYS on the opposite side of all the refupeas in every single situation? It boggles the mind. I don't know, I put Rainbow on ignore a long time ago because she always writes in a big colored font. Since I view this website in the blue layout, it's hard to read. I don't get why someone would be bothered to take the extra time to change her font for every post? You're just fucking with us every time you post, right? |
|
|
|
Post by ceepea on Apr 15, 2015 18:13:29 GMT
These babies are 2. I doubt very much that they would ever remember having seen cheetahs at the zoo anyway. Why would someone go to such lengths as to try to get 2 two year olds up on the railing to try to see cheetahs anyway? Sure, they are not something you see every day and they may never get to see another one, but I still do not believe that if this incident never happened the kids would remember them anyway. Maybe I was a bad parent when my kids were 2, but if I walked past this exhibit and saw that the kids wouldn't be able to see, I would have just kept walking. Millions of children will never get to see a live cheetah in their lives.
I think it was a case of bad judgment and a case of the parents need for their child to experience "everything". You see this type of behavior so often at Disney, Busch Gardens, Universal. Parents balance their toddlers up on things then quickly run back to take pictures. Sure the fountain may not be deep, but it is made out of concrete and the kid could hit their head if they fell in. Or they put their small children on the outside of the jeeps through the safari ride so they can see everything.
I am glad the baby was not hurt.
|
|
luckyexwife
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,069 
|
Post by luckyexwife on Apr 15, 2015 18:23:44 GMT
Which is why I said that it was sheer stupidity to not just hold ONE child over the edge but a second "slippery creature" over the edge as well.
The zoo’s executive director, Chris Kuhar, said the mother appeared to be at fault.
“Unfortunately, we have a number of eyewitness accounts that point to the strong likelihood that the child was dangled over the railing,” Kuhar said.
Eyewitnesses were there. Eyewitnesses are the ones that first mentioned the child being "dangled".
Again, we've all done it...we've all held our kids up to see. Perhaps had she only held one at a time to see she would've had a better hold. Because again, toddlers are slippery creatures.
If this is the kind of decision making skills this woman has (not necessarily holding one child...but her choice to hold two "slippery creatures" over the railing) then perhaps she should not be responsible for the safety of other people's children.
Harsh? I suppose. We all make mistakes. We're all fortunate that most of our parenting mistakes don't cause injury to our children or end up on the news. But this woman's poor choice to attempt to hold twins over a railing is stupid and I'm glad the zoo is pressing charges. Perhaps others will consider the safety measures the zoos have more carefully and reconsider ways to get around them.
I never said anything about the charges. I'm talking about the media coverage of a total non-story. Why on earth is this national news for days on end? It shouldn't have been anything more than a blurb on the local. I didn't say that she didn't make a poor decision. She did. But we have all done such things. Empathy is dead, it seems. Everything is black and white I guess now. And we all think we are the perfect parent/citizen/human being with all the moral authority to sit in judgement of others, despite the fact that we never have all the facts. This family is a good family, and the mother is a good mother. A poor decision does not make one a bad parent. If it did, we'd all be screwed. I know it's already been said, but @lynlam, you really need to read this post several times to yourself, and really think about it. |
|
|
|
Post by gale w on Apr 15, 2015 18:26:36 GMT
That's all well and good but those fences and railings are there for a reason and it isn't to set your child on. Well no sh*t. Thanks for that insight. She didn't plop him up there and let go of him. She had her arm around him the whole time. But toddlers are slippery creatures, aren't they? But I doubt that there is a mother among us that hasn't done something similar at a zoo/aquarium/theme park/museum etc. You walk up to an exhibt with a railing that your child can't see over. You hold them up. Maybe you sit their tush on the railing, never imagining that something bad could happen in the blink of an eye. I know I have done it. The question should also be, why did the zoo not have the exhibit more protected, with netting below the railing to catch anything that might be dropped over the railing? I can say with confidence that we've never done this. We used to go to the zoo several times a year and if someone couldn't see, my husband or I would hold them just like we would if we're carrying them-and one at a time. My kids never put anything other than their hands on the top rail of any enclosure. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 13:38:21 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 18:28:53 GMT
That's all well and good but those fences and railings are there for a reason and it isn't to set your child on. Well no sh*t. Thanks for that insight. She didn't plop him up there and let go of him. She had her arm around him the whole time. But toddlers are slippery creatures, aren't they? But I doubt that there is a mother among us that hasn't done something similar at a zoo/aquarium/theme park/museum etc. You walk up to an exhibt with a railing that your child can't see over. You hold them up. Maybe you sit their tush on the railing, never imagining that something bad could happen in the blink of an eye. I know I have done it. The question should also be, why did the zoo not have the exhibit more protected, with netting below the railing to catch anything that might be dropped over the railing?I don't know how I missed this the first time around. Could this be any more ironic, coming from the Queen of Personal Responsibility? |
|
|
|
Post by myshelly on Apr 15, 2015 18:31:56 GMT
Well no sh*t. Thanks for that insight. She didn't plop him up there and let go of him. She had her arm around him the whole time. But toddlers are slippery creatures, aren't they? But I doubt that there is a mother among us that hasn't done something similar at a zoo/aquarium/theme park/museum etc. You walk up to an exhibt with a railing that your child can't see over. You hold them up. Maybe you sit their tush on the railing, never imagining that something bad could happen in the blink of an eye. I know I have done it. The question should also be, why did the zoo not have the exhibit more protected, with netting below the railing to catch anything that might be dropped over the railing?I don't know how I missed this the first time around. Could this be any more ironic, coming from the Queen of Personal Responsibility? Yep. That's what I'm saying. Everything Lyman has said on this thread is the EXACT opposite of what she says on EVERY other thread: No personal responsibility for the mom. It was clearly the zoo's fault. We should all have more empathy. |
|
|
|
Post by Tamhugh on Apr 15, 2015 18:50:55 GMT
My kids went to lots of zoos as children. Not once did I ever sit them on a railing to look over. I might have lifted them high enough that their chin or chest was at the level of the fence, but not high enough to fall in. I was a bit neurotic, admittedly, but the thought of sitting a slippery little toddler on a fence overlooking a dangerous animal is the epitome of stupidity to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by momof3pits on Apr 15, 2015 18:53:06 GMT
All I know is thank god that poor baby wasn't mauled by cheetahs. How horrific. This is an excellent reminder to use good judgement in any situation.
|
|
pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
|
Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 15, 2015 18:53:44 GMT
I do feel empathy for her. We do all make mistakes. There are consequences to those mistakes. If I look at my phone while driving my kids, and I get in an accident, it is my fault. I did not intend to hurt my children, but I did. There are consequences to those actions. I do think she should not be publicly lynched for this, but I think it is a valid discussion that serves as a cautionary tale for people nationwide, and i don't think it is out of line for her to appear in court. I had to appear in court years ago for "failure to yield" and had to pay a fine. I looked, and then looked away as I slowed down to make sure I had the right turn...I then turned, without looking again. A car T-boned me. Neither of us was hurt. My car caused her car damage, and mine had $8000 worth of damage. We had to skip our one year anniversary trip to Colorado. I had to appear in court and pay a fine. I didn't mean to do something wrong. I didn't hurt anyone. My insurance paid for the damage, and I suffered private consequences, but I STILL had to go to court, miss a college class, and pay a fine. That's life. I had two year old twins. I am sure I held them up to look at things. I would not have placed them on the wood. I might have squished ONE of them up against the concrete--at my absolute worst. The other guy would have had to wait or someone else would have had to lift him up and squish him against the concrete. I do feel that the OP lecturing about empathy and black and white thinking is just simply further signs of her apparent cognitive dissonance. Sums it up nicely. First and foremost, glad the child was not hurt. Parents aren't perfect and yes, we all make mistakes. Holding your child up is one thing, but she must've been over the barrier for him to fall in. And if it's true she checked her phone? Egads. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 13:38:21 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 18:55:46 GMT
I don't think anyone has said she checked her phone - I think that was just annabelle's hypothesis. Which I really really hope is not reality because that's just icing on the bad decision cake.
|
|
pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
|
Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 15, 2015 18:58:45 GMT
I don't think anyone has said she checked her phone - I think that was just annabelle's hypothesis. Which I really really hope is not reality because that's just icing on the bad decision cake. Oops, you're right. |
|
|
|
Post by melanell on Apr 15, 2015 19:24:51 GMT
I really hate the whole "but she is such a good person". Okay great, but so what? Her kid still fell into a cheetah pit. I'm sure she is perfectly nice. But she had a huge lapse in judgement and yes people are going to have strong feelings about that. Every single zoo has signs not to do this. Every single person knows not to put kids up there but they still do it. And this kind of stuff happens. Sorry but we know better. Do better. My issue is in the name-calling and bashing of her in general that I am seeing. (In various places across the internet.) Many people (probably most people and perhaps even all people) have or will have at one or more times in their lives a "huge lapse in judgement". But I just don't feel that it makes them worthy of being ripped to shreds by strangers. Some of us are lucky enough that nothing catastrophic comes from our huge lapses in judgement and lucky that they weren't made known far and wide so that people could remind us as nastily as possible how horrible we were for making the mistake in the first place. |
|
|
|
Post by pierkiss on Apr 15, 2015 19:27:25 GMT
Obviously she does, because she doesn't have enough common sense of her own. Hopefully this teaches her some important lessons. I can put myself in her shoes: 2yo: "mummy I can't see the cheetahs...pick me up" Me: "no, honey you're to little and it's not safe, we'll come back another time when you are bigger, let's go and look at ...(animals where there is easier viewing for 2yos to see them)" Not rocket science. Adults are meant to be smarter than 2yos. I would have no issue picking my 2yo up because that concrete wall would probably hinder their vision. But I'd hold them against me (like I always did) and my body wouldn't go further than the concrete wall. There's no way I'd extend them past the concrete wall...to extend them even to the wooden railing or God forbid past the wooden railing. No way.
If the eyewitnesses are the ones that first mentioned dangling, she had to have had at least one of them pretty far out there.
Yep that. I do index how far out there she had them. As it they were sitting on that wall me one like rolled away from her and off the wooden part? Either way, you don't put your kids on the walls, rails, fences, whatever's at the zoo. It's dangerous. |
|
|
|
Post by anxiousmom on Apr 15, 2015 19:32:25 GMT
Two thoughts:
1. I had an escape artist for a kid. At two, he could disappear like a puff of smoke if you even blinked at the wrong time. I all but handcuffed the kid to me. I should probably also add that between ages 2 and about 7 he had an obsession with cheetahs-and at 2 would crawl around the house pretending to be one. Putting him on a wall like that, even resting on his bottom with my arms tightly around him would have been an invitation to him to figure out a way to "live with his people."
2. (And I say this knowing that I am the odd man out but am in no way blaming the zoo) Knowing that there are potentially very dangerous animals in the enclosure below, I would have thought that the zoo itself would have considered a sturdier barrier between the people above and the animals below. If not to protect the people from accidental falls or stupid climbers, but to also protect the animals from dumb people dropping/throwing/whatever into the enclosure or at the animals.
|
|
|
|
Post by freecharlie on Apr 15, 2015 20:12:03 GMT
Two thoughts: 1. I had an escape artist for a kid. At two, he could disappear like a puff of smoke if you even blinked at the wrong time. I all but handcuffed the kid to me. I should probably also add that between ages 2 and about 7 he had an obsession with cheetahs-and at 2 would crawl around the house pretending to be one. Putting him on a wall like that, even resting on his bottom with my arms tightly around him would have been an invitation to him to figure out a way to "live with his people." 2. (And I say this knowing that I am the odd man out but am in no way blaming the zoo) Knowing that there are potentially very dangerous animals in the enclosure below, I would have thought that the zoo itself would have considered a sturdier barrier between the people above and the animals below. If not to protect the people from accidental falls or stupid climbers, but to also protect the animals from dumb people dropping/throwing/whatever into the enclosure or at the animals. some of our exhibits have deep concrete pits between the humans and animals, plus the railing. I think there is a good chance the child would have died had he fallen into one like that or at least broken multiple bones. I don't think there needs to be extra protection. Stupid people will find a way to be stupid. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 13:38:21 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 20:18:26 GMT
Two thoughts: 1. I had an escape artist for a kid. At two, he could disappear like a puff of smoke if you even blinked at the wrong time. I all but handcuffed the kid to me. I should probably also add that between ages 2 and about 7 he had an obsession with cheetahs-and at 2 would crawl around the house pretending to be one. Putting him on a wall like that, even resting on his bottom with my arms tightly around him would have been an invitation to him to figure out a way to "live with his people." 2. (And I say this knowing that I am the odd man out but am in no way blaming the zoo) Knowing that there are potentially very dangerous animals in the enclosure below, I would have thought that the zoo itself would have considered a sturdier barrier between the people above and the animals below. If not to protect the people from accidental falls or stupid climbers, but to also protect the animals from dumb people dropping/throwing/whatever into the enclosure or at the animals. some of our exhibits have deep concrete pits between the humans and animals, plus the railing. I think there is a good chance the child would have died had he fallen into one like that or at least broken multiple bones. I don't think there needs to be extra protection. Stupid people will find a way to be stupid. I agree...adding more layers of protection will not deter people from being dumb and doing dumb things. It will just force them to be more creative to doing dumb things. |
|
|
|
Post by mlynn on Apr 15, 2015 20:49:04 GMT
If I were at the zoo with a child who could not see, I would hold them on my hip. Not on a railing. And I would not even be at the railing/barricade. I would be a step back. Our society has too little respect for rules. Rules are made for a reason, and we don't have to understand them or approve of them. We just need to follow them.
|
|
iluvpink
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,370
Location: Michigan
|
Post by iluvpink on Apr 15, 2015 21:17:48 GMT
I have mixed feelings about this. Looking at the pictures I just don't see how the kid fell in unless he was being held very far out there. NO WAY would I have set my dd up on ledge. I would have picked her up just so her head was over the concrete part but the rest below and held tight. No way to fall that way.
On the other hand we had an incident a few weeks ago with a couple of family members that were in the news. People all over the state were upset over several aspects and some on FB, news comments etc were blaming someone who was not to blame and giving an innocent person a bad rap. But knowing what was going on, the information put out by the police/media was either missing a lot of facts or inaccurate. Very frustrating.
|
|
|
|
Post by mollycoddle on Apr 15, 2015 21:24:54 GMT
I do feel empathy for her. We do all make mistakes. There are consequences to those mistakes. If I look at my phone while driving my kids, and I get in an accident, it is my fault. I did not intend to hurt my children, but I did. There are consequences to those actions. I do think she should not be publicly lynched for this, but I think it is a valid discussion that serves as a cautionary tale for people nationwide, and i don't think it is out of line for her to appear in court. I had to appear in court years ago for "failure to yield" and had to pay a fine. I looked, and then looked away as I slowed down to make sure I had the right turn...I then turned, without looking again. A car T-boned me. Neither of us was hurt. My car caused her car damage, and mine had $8000 worth of damage. We had to skip our one year anniversary trip to Colorado. I had to appear in court and pay a fine. I didn't mean to do something wrong. I didn't hurt anyone. My insurance paid for the damage, and I suffered private consequences, but I STILL had to go to court, miss a college class, and pay a fine. That's life. I had two year old twins. I am sure I held them up to look at things. I would not have placed them on the wood. I might have squished ONE of them up against the concrete--at my absolute worst. The other guy would have had to wait or someone else would have had to lift him up and squish him against the concrete. I do feel that the OP lecturing about empathy and black and white thinking is just simply further signs of her apparent cognitive dissonance. Sums it up nicely. First and foremost, glad the child was not hurt. Parents aren't perfect and yes, we all make mistakes. Holding your child up is one thing, but she must've been over the barrier for him to fall in. And if it's true she checked her phone? Egads. Well said, both of you. |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 13:38:21 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 21:27:22 GMT
I think I have a problem with the use of the word "dangling." Dangling to me looks like what Michael Jackson did with "Blanket" - holding the kid out at arms length. I just don't see how this woman could have done that with two kids. Based on the pic above, i'm guessing what she did was stand both kids on the railing with her arms around both. I think that was a dumb idea too but to imply she held her kid out over the pit seems wrong to me. But from what I have seen, it's not the media that began using "dangling" on their own. It's the zoo, and the eyewitnesses that first used "dangling". If the eyewitnesses want to call it dangling, I, as a person who was not there or was not a witness to it can't really define dangling any other way and with that said, don't blame the media. I agree with MsKnit when she said And this by freebird |
|
|
|
Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 15, 2015 21:40:56 GMT
This is why I see signs at places asking that visitors do not sit or climb on or lean over railings. Because there are enough people out there who don't automatically see the inherent danger in doing things like that.  We have two zoos here and BOTH of them have big signs all over everywhere telling people to keep their kids off of/away from the railings. We're lucky that our zoos have many great viewing areas that are walled off with glass so there is no need to hold a kid up over a railing to see the animals. I'm too much of a rule follower to do something when I'm specifically told or instructed not to. |
|
|
|
Post by epeanymous on Apr 15, 2015 21:57:09 GMT
I think it is because I have twins that I have less empathy than I might otherwise,because it is a decision I just can't imagine making. I know exactly how hard it is to keep a hold of two wriggly boys that age.
|
|
|
|
Post by mirabelleswalker on Apr 15, 2015 22:54:29 GMT
In addition, you KNOW 2yo's are wiggly, squirmy...why on earth would you attempt to hold TWO 2yo's?
Fences and railings are placed where they are and designed how they are for a reason. It was risky to hold one child above any railing but making the conscious decision to hold two children above railing was negligent and stupid. This mother needs some critical thinking skills training so that she doesn't do anything this reckless and stupid again that endanger one or both of her children.
Jenny, really? Have you never done anything that might have gone wrong, but thankfully didn't? Does that mean you need critical thinking skills training? How absurd! She never intended to endanger her children. She made a poor decision, yes. But we have all done such things as parents of young kids, haven't we? Have you ever looked at your phone while driving with your kid in the car, for just a split second? That's a Poor decision that could have had a bad outcome. If the unthinkable happened, and you were in a wreck and your child broke his arm, would you want the media frenzy and scrutiny for days, and the judgement and the condemnation, lose your job, be embarrassed and scared to leave your house, know that your decision would haunt you for the rest of time, thanks to the internet? Dont' you think she feels horrible enough? Do you think she needs the judgment of the rest of the nation as well? Can't anyone ever put themselves in another persons shoes for half a second? Is this where we are as a society? And at the same time you think the zoo should be held responsible? SMDH. Yes, the zoo should have had the foresight to know that parents would disregard fences and rails and jeopardize their children's safety. |
|
|
|
Post by momstime on Apr 15, 2015 23:16:25 GMT
I work at a top rated Zoo. The stuff I have seen parents do with their small children would make your eyes bleed. What this woman did was BEYOND reckless. She could have lifted her child (or children if she choses) and stood WAY back from the railing. Sitting children on the railings is ALWAYS a bad choice, and it is clearly child endangerment. No question about it. Just because I do something stupid and get away with it, does not mean it wasn't stupid. If you turn around and do the same thing that results in a tragedy, you should pay the consequences. Your consequences will hopefully show me that what we both did was terribly foolish, criminal even, and I should never try it again. If we all believed no one should be punished for bad behavior because some of get away with it while others are caught, well we would have a lot more bad behavior in this world.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 13:38:21 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2015 23:39:22 GMT
Interesting that lynlam farted and ran with this thread. She's usually a dog with a bone, defending her opinions to the bloody end.
|
|
pudgygroundhog
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,648
Location: The Grand Canyon
|
Post by pudgygroundhog on Apr 16, 2015 0:56:15 GMT
I have been waiting for the connection back to Obama.
|
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 13:38:20 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 1:05:57 GMT
I have been waiting for the connection back to Obama. Or Hillary, it is all going on her now.  |
|
Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 7, 2024 13:38:21 GMT
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2015 1:12:39 GMT
Dumbasses like this are going to change the way zoos operate. There will be fences and structures put into place that will prevent viewers from even attempting something like that. Unfortunately, it'll take away that somewhat "natural" feel of being around the animals for those of us who visit zoos responsibly.
|
|
We have two zoos here and BOTH of them have big signs all over everywhere telling people to keep their kids off of/away from the railings. We're lucky that our zoos have many great viewing areas that are walled off with glass so there is no need to hold a kid up over a railing to see the animals. I'm too much of a rule follower to do something when I'm specifically told or instructed not to.
