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Post by montecarlolvr on Apr 23, 2015 12:46:50 GMT
I have always been leery of eating home canned food. I know some of the peas are not fans of potlucks. This is a good reason to be aware of what is being served at one. The rest of the story is at the link below
Botulism death tied to Lancaster church potluck
One person has died and at least 20 others were hospitalized as of late last night with suspected botulism that health officials are linking to a potluck on Sunday at a Lancaster church.
Fairfield Medical Center officials said a neurologist identified the first suspected case of botulism early yesterday, and two more likely cases were identified shortly thereafter.
The medical center sent 10 patients to Columbus hospitals. Of the other 10, five were in the intensive-care unit at Fairfield Medical and five were in the emergency department last night.
Most of those sickened are middle-aged, said hospital spokeswoman Donna Stalter. She said she could not provide details about the person who died.
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M in Carolina
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Post by M in Carolina on Apr 23, 2015 12:58:48 GMT
How horrible!
My grandmother canned a lot of vegetables. When she died, my mom and her two sisters all saved a few jars of her canned green beans and tomatoes.
My mom tried to insist that these 30 year old jars were safe to eat because canned food "doesn't go bad". She tried to get us to eat the green beans, saying that "they smelled ok".
I refused to eat them and showed her the encyclopedia article on botulism and other food borne illnesses that aren't detectable by looks or smell.
I just don't think it's worth getting that sick over a can of vegetables that cost less than $3.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 13:40:24 GMT
I never eat potluck food and may start forbidding my children as well. This is horrifying. I think potlucks should be banned. Well, that's extreme but I wouldn't mind. On another note, I'm sad for the victims and families but my heart also goes out to the cook who unintentionally poisoned all of those people, and killed one (so far). Can you imagine.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 14:05:39 GMT
Caution is always advisable but this is not something I plan to panic over. I will continue enjoying potluck events and some great food that can be found there.
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Apr 23, 2015 14:11:57 GMT
I don't have any data, but I suspect you are far more at risk of food borne illness/disease eating at a restaurant than you are at the random potluck.
This is a really sad story, but pretty unlikely I suspect.
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Post by pjaye on Apr 23, 2015 14:20:47 GMT
Being aware of 'who' made the food isn't going to be at all helpful.
Sure if someone looks dirty and stinks, you'd probably avoid their food, but you can't always tell from looking who has the disgusting hygiene habits.
Take the recent threads here and the people who laughingly boast about washing their babies or their dog's dirty bottoms in the kitchen sink, saying they don't wash their hands after using the bathroom OR seeing nothing wrong with using the bathroom and washing their hands in the kitchen sink and wiping them on a tea towel.
Just because someone looks neat and clean doesn't mean they don't do gross things in the kitchen, use expired food, ancient canned goods, scraped the mould off etc.
I'll eat at most of my friend's houses (although that doesn't happen too often anymore as that whole dinner party thing seems to have died out...if it's a group event we go out). However these are all people I have known for a long time and have seen in action at work or doing other things and I'm confident that they are careful in the kitchen...at least up to my own standards.
No way would I go and eat from a bunch of pots, all kept luke-warm for goodness knows how long, with no idea how they were prepared.
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mallie
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Post by mallie on Apr 23, 2015 14:33:33 GMT
I don't have any data, but I suspect you are far more at risk of food borne illness/disease eating at a restaurant than you are at the random potluck. This is a really sad story, but pretty unlikely I suspect. Actually, there was a study done in an adjacent county a few years back and far more people ended up in the hospital with food poisoning from church potlucks than from restaurants. |
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Post by epeanymous on Apr 23, 2015 14:36:11 GMT
I was visiting my inlaws in Florida last week. They have a beachside condo. Our first day, they put out a spread of food by the pool/beach. I took some of the salad, and it tasted gritty and off to me, so I stopped eating it. The rest of the food that was out was cold cuts. I decided I would just have some bread from the loaf that was on the table and grab a snack somewhere else later. The food was out in the 90+ degree sun for a few hours. That evening, we had a poolside barbecue, and again, the food was out for a few hours.
The next day we showed up and they had put out a spread by the pool/beach again for lunch. You guessed it, the same food that had been out for hours the day before.
My grandmother died of an e.coli infection, and I am pregnant, so I'm not messing around with food-borne illness. The thing is, my inlaws are incredibly wealthy, meticulously neat, and if you go to their condo, it looks like a hospital waiting room. You'd never know they were playing Russian roulette with food safety.
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Post by pjaye on Apr 23, 2015 14:50:32 GMT
Exactly.
Plus there was a TV segment on here just yesterday and the microbiologist said that most food poisoning takes around 3 days for people to show symptoms...but generally people will put it down to the last thing they ate.
So the people who ate at your relatives will be fine for two days, then they'll go and have a burger at MacDonald's and start vomiting or get diarrhoea several hours later and they think they got sick from the fast food and never even consider the food they had 2 days ago that sat in the sun for several hours.
So there's never any feedback or repercussions to the people who really caused the problem and they keep on doing it.
Luckily most food poisoning is just a nasty case of D+V for most healthy people but if it's botulism or salmonella it can be fatal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 15:01:04 GMT
botulism has little (or nothing) to do with cleanliness in the handling of food. Botulism spores are on many fresh produce. Just not in sufficient quantities to cause illness. To many people are doing home canning with recipes that are low sugar or low salt and low acidity. Botulism spores thrive in the low oxygen environment of a can. Botulism is killed by acidity, salt, sugar or sufficient heat under pressure. A commercial canner is able to get foods much hotter and under more pressure than a home canner ever will.
There is a reason our grandparents boiled their canned foods to mush!
All the pinterest canning recipes scare me. Sure you can put it in a jar and seal it. Does NOT make it safe to eat later!!
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Post by BuckeyeSandy on Apr 23, 2015 15:05:37 GMT
So am I the only one to have a small bottle of disinfectant at my kitchen and clean it any time raw meat/fish/poultry packaging is opened and the meat/fish/poultry is prepared for cooking? Or have the "hot food" servers with the burners?
I've been through several food handling sanitation and food safety courses (mostly for Girl Scouting activities or events). Yes there are foods I will not eat unless I know how thoroughly they have been cooked, or how long they have been out. The old mantra "hot foods serve HOT" and "cold foods serve COLD" runs on repeat when ever I go to a buffet type party or event.
One of my grandmothers canned, but would not let anyone have anything over 2 years old, or anything in a jar that she did not like the condition of the "sealing" when opened. It would be opened and the contents discarded and the jar cleaned out and disinfected for reuse. She would never reuse seals (the metal lids or the gasket on lidded jars)
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raindancer
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Post by raindancer on Apr 23, 2015 15:05:45 GMT
I don't have any data, but I suspect you are far more at risk of food borne illness/disease eating at a restaurant than you are at the random potluck. This is a really sad story, but pretty unlikely I suspect. Actually, there was a study done in an adjacent county a few years back and far more people ended up in the hospital with food poisoning from church potlucks than from restaurants. Interesting. Do you know the study? I would be interested in how it was done, how many cases they looked at and how they tracked it. |
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Post by pjaye on Apr 23, 2015 15:11:37 GMT
Generally speaking that's correct, and it was botulism in this particular case, but the bigger picture is food poisoning in general and the other comments hold true for that.
However botulism also lives in soil, so it is possible to get it by ingesting contaminated soil or breathing in spores released from the soil(rare but possible) so if people are washing soil contaminated hands in the kitchen or not washing soil contaminated hands at all, it could cause a problem...particularly in young children.
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Post by montecarlolvr on Apr 23, 2015 16:08:14 GMT
Being aware of 'who' made the food isn't going to be at all helpful. Sure if someone looks dirty and stinks, you'd probably avoid their food, but you can't always tell from looking who has the disgusting hygiene habits. Take the recent threads here and the people who laughingly boast about washing their babies or their dog's dirty bottoms in the kitchen sink, saying they don't wash their hands after using the bathroom OR seeing nothing wrong with using the bathroom and washing their hands in the kitchen sink and wiping them on a tea towel. Just because someone looks neat and clean doesn't mean they don't do gross things in the kitchen, use expired food, ancient canned goods, scraped the mould off etc. I'll eat at most of my friend's houses (although that doesn't happen too often anymore as that whole dinner party thing seems to have died out...if it's a group event we go out). However these are all people I have known for a long time and have seen in action at work or doing other things and I'm confident that they are careful in the kitchen...at least up to my own standards. No way would I go and eat from a bunch of pots, all kept luke-warm for goodness knows how long, with no idea how they were prepared. I meant just be aware that the food was canned from home. If it is from an elderly and forgetful lady it might not be wise to eat it. She may not be as careful as she used to be with her canning. The food could also be several years old if they forgot when they canned it. I bet the canner of this food is just beside themselves that this happened with their food. |
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peppermintpatty
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Post by peppermintpatty on Apr 23, 2015 16:12:10 GMT
I guess that means you don't eat in restaurants either? That is sad.
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Post by montecarlolvr on Apr 23, 2015 16:14:36 GMT
I guess that means you don't eat in restaurants either? That is sad. No, I eat out and I do eat at potlucks. I won't eat someone's food that I know their house is filthy but that is just common sense. I have just always been leery of home canned foods. That is all. Nothing sad about it. |
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scorpeao
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Post by scorpeao on Apr 23, 2015 16:21:26 GMT
Generally speaking that's correct, and it was botulism in this particular case, but the bigger picture is food poisoning in general and the other comments hold true for that. However botulism also lives in soil, so it is possible to get it by ingesting contaminated soil or breathing in spores released from the soil(rare but possible) so if people are washing soil contaminated hands in the kitchen or not washing soil contaminated hands at all, it could cause a problem...particularly in young children. No, you can't get botulism by breathing in spores. Botulism is the toxin that the bacteria produces as a by product of metabolism. It's an anaerobic bacteria which thrives in an environment that doesn't have oxygen; that's why home canning and canned goods are the issue with botulism. If there's oxygen present the bacteria cannot live long enough to produce enough botulism toxin to cause illness. Other food borne illness is usually caused by improper food handling and/or hand washing. Also, if it's a pathogen that causes vomiting odds are it was the last food you ate. If the pathogen causes diarrhea that can be several hours to days later. |
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Post by Merge on Apr 23, 2015 16:26:31 GMT
Generally speaking that's correct, and it was botulism in this particular case, but the bigger picture is food poisoning in general and the other comments hold true for that. However botulism also lives in soil, so it is possible to get it by ingesting contaminated soil or breathing in spores released from the soil(rare but possible) so if people are washing soil contaminated hands in the kitchen or not washing soil contaminated hands at all, it could cause a problem...particularly in young children. Where should soil contaminated hands be washed? Not everyone has a garden or mudroom sink, and I question the wisdom of walking through the house to a bathroom to wash, possibly touching doorknobs and other surfaces as you go. I see no reason not to wash soiled hands in the kitchen sink just like I do with chicken juice covered hands. My sink and counters are disinfected after any germy use; you're not going to get food poisoning from my food because it was garden soil rather than chicken juice that I last washed from my hands there, since the area was subsequently disinfected either way. |
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Post by pjaye on Apr 23, 2015 16:46:41 GMT
Generally speaking that's correct, and it was botulism in this particular case, but the bigger picture is food poisoning in general and the other comments hold true for that. However botulism also lives in soil, so it is possible to get it by ingesting contaminated soil or breathing in spores released from the soil(rare but possible) so if people are washing soil contaminated hands in the kitchen or not washing soil contaminated hands at all, it could cause a problem...particularly in young children. No, you can't get botulism by breathing in spores. OK, incorrect wording on my part - by "breathing in" I meant spores being released into the air and ending up being taken into the body via the nose and being swallowed and entering the gut. Although it wasn't what I meant, inhalation botulism does also exist:
link
and that's exactly the problem...you see no difference and that's precisely why it's potentially dangerous.
Not all "germs" (for want of a better word) are created equal, whatever disinfectant you use on one thing, may not work equally well or at all for others. It also depends on how they grow and how they reproduce and the 'load' needed to make you sick. Why do you think there are so many different types of antibiotics?...because they don't all kill every type of bacteria. And antibiotics don't kill viruses either. So the safest option is not to introduce them into the environment where food is stored, made or consumed.
I have a nursing degree, but not one in microbiology so off the top of my head I don't know if the bacteria/viruses/fungi in dog poop, or garden fertilizer are killed by my kitchen disinfectant. I'm not going to look it up each time I have dirty hands either, so I wash my hands in the bathroom where no-one is eating (well I'm not eating there, probably other people are about to tell me they do). Then I use the kitchen disinfectant that has been produced to kill the common and expected kitchen germs. And if you are using some high-powered heavy duty all purpose kill everything disinfectant - then I don't want to be eating food after the use of that either. So yes, if I saw you washing your dog, kid or dirty garden hands in the kitchen, I'd be politely declining any dinner invitations and tossing your cupcakes in the bin after you'd gone.
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Post by crazy4scraps on Apr 23, 2015 16:48:10 GMT
Being aware of 'who' made the food isn't going to be at all helpful. Sure if someone looks dirty and stinks, you'd probably avoid their food, but you can't always tell from looking who has the disgusting hygiene habits. This is true. Not a hygiene problem, but my MIL would routinely serve stuff with expiration dates that had passed months or even years before. I understand that some of that stuff will still be safe to eat after the date on it, but this was going to extremes. Sorry, but if the 3/4 empty salad dressing bottle had a "best by" date on the top of two years ago, it wasn't going on my food! |
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Post by Bitchy Rich on Apr 23, 2015 17:13:04 GMT
I guess that means you don't eat in restaurants either? That is sad. No, I eat out and I do eat at potlucks. I won't eat someone's food that I know their house is filthy but that is just common sense. I have just always been leery of home canned foods. That is all. Nothing sad about it. I just don't know how you could know who brought every dish at a potluck. We have a lot of food that just appears on our table at work, from employees and from clients. I only have one rule of thumb. If it looks good, it's going in my pie hole. |
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Post by papersilly on Apr 23, 2015 17:21:25 GMT
Being aware of 'who' made the food isn't going to be at all helpful. yes, but it can be an indicator. I know someone who is the nicest guy. he also loves to bake and share his baked goods with people. however, I've never been around him when his fingers weren't picking in and around his nose or eyes. yukk. it makes me sad to do it, but I never eat his baked goods and just wind up tossing them. I don't even feel right giving them away to other people. in all fairness, I don't do potlucks in general. just because I am a freak about washing my hands and sanitizing my kitchen, doesn't mean that others are. |
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Post by gryroagain on Apr 23, 2015 22:12:42 GMT
In 2011 (most recent year I found on very quick search, from CDC) there were 3,000 deaths in the US from food borne illnesses. The same year there were 32,999 vehicle deaths. That's ten times more, and while we do eat every day, we also drive or ride in a car every day, and it's much more dangerous.
Of course it might be nicer to die in a car crash, I've had food poisoning, lol.
I suspect botulism deaths are even more rare (hence, it's on the news) so I'm not going to worry. Plus no one I know cans anything. And I'm an atheist, making me safe from church potlucks. I'd eat at an atheist potluck though, and worry more about the drive there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 23:47:54 GMT
This hasn't actually been linked to home canning. The only common link seems to be the potluck, not even narrowed down to a particular dish. Yes, thank you! I was wondering where everyone was getting that this came from home canning. I see that mentioned in the piece, but not that it's related to this situation that they know of yet. |
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perumbula
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Post by perumbula on Apr 24, 2015 0:07:17 GMT
All the pinterest canning recipes scare me. Sure you can put it in a jar and seal it. Does NOT make it safe to eat later!! Actually, it does. If it's done properly following proper guidelines, it's very possible to get the food up to the right temperature to kill botulism. I've been eating home canned food my whole life (and much of it pressure canned.) It's very safe. I'm not going to kill my children with green beans or home canned turkey. I use a pressure canner with seals that are checked yearly (right before canning season) and an accurate gauge. I cook to the pressure and time recommended for the food I'm cooking. There's no living botulism left in my beans when I'm done with them. Promise. But that's ok. You don't have to eat my home canned food. |
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Post by gailoh on Apr 24, 2015 0:12:34 GMT
This happened in my town and my heart goes out to them...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 0:15:49 GMT
All the pinterest canning recipes scare me. Sure you can put it in a jar and seal it. Does NOT make it safe to eat later!! Actually, it does. If it's done properly following proper guidelines, it's very possible to get the food up to the right temperature to kill botulism. I've been eating home canned food my whole life (and much of it pressure canned.) It's very safe. I'm not going to kill my children with green beans or home canned turkey. I use a pressure canner with seals that are checked yearly (right before canning season) and an accurate gauge. I cook to the pressure and time recommended for the food I'm cooking. There's no living botulism left in my beans when I'm done with them. Promise. But that's ok. You don't have to eat my home canned food. It would help you you had bothered to read my entire post. I addressed the need to follow proper guidelines for the right salinity, acidity, sugar or heat/pressure. However, that does not change the fact pinterest if full of "recipes" that do NOT meet those standards. " To many people are doing home canning with recipes that are low sugar or low salt and low acidity. Botulism spores thrive in the low oxygen environment of a can. Botulism is killed by acidity, salt, sugar or sufficient heat under pressure." I did NOT say ALL home canning is dangerous. |
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quiltz
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Post by quiltz on Apr 24, 2015 0:17:39 GMT
All the pinterest canning recipes scare me. Sure you can put it in a jar and seal it. Does NOT make it safe to eat later!! Actually, it does. If it's done properly following proper guidelines, it's very possible to get the food up to the right temperature to kill botulism. I've been eating home canned food my whole life (and much of it pressure canned.) It's very safe. I'm not going to kill my children with green beans or home canned turkey. I use a pressure canner with seals that are checked yearly (right before canning season) and an accurate gauge. I cook to the pressure and time recommended for the food I'm cooking. There's no living botulism left in my beans when I'm done with them. Promise. But that's ok. You don't have to eat my home canned food. Not everyone has a pressure canner but use the boil method instead. Pressure canners are expensive to purchase. If you do a lot of canning, pressure canning is the way to go.
I only can peaches & applesauce. No beans or tomatoes or meat.
voltagain, guess we were posting at the same time.
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perumbula
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Post by perumbula on Apr 24, 2015 0:30:53 GMT
Volt, the way you worded it did sound like you were saying all home canning is dangerous. I haven't read Pintrest canning recipes. I grew up doing it and I know the Ball Blue Book is the gold standard for safety. If it doesn't meet those standards, then yes, it's not a safe recipe.
Pressure canning and water bath canning are used for different purposes. I would never water bath can beans or meat, but I would also never pressure can tomatoes or fruit. It would ruin the food. (I follow acidity guidelines with my tomatoes by adding lemon juice or vinegar if my tomatoes aren't acidic enough on their own.) Just because you own a pressure canner doesn't mean you should use it for everything.
Canning is a skill that takes time to learn with it's own set of directions. It's not a hard skill to learn, but it's important to get it right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 2:19:29 GMT
Salt and sugar are used in home canning for flavor and color-not safety. Proper acidity and temperature are the important factors. Pressure canning is required for meats and vegetables because high pressure is required to get the internal temperature of the foods high enough to kill the botulism spores. While pressure canning fruits will yield mush, you can pressure can tomatoes. Directions can be found here: National Center for Home Food Preservation-Tomatoes I prefer to pressure can my tomatoes because it's faster, and causes less heat in the kitchen. The NCHFP is the USDA official resource for home canning instructions. I put up over 500 jars a year, but unless the recipe is on the NCHFP website or Ball Blue book, I don't use them. |
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