Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 2:48:27 GMT
No snark I promise...will someone explain the reason for canning? Is it that you find product on sale then can it to preserve it to eat later in the season? Is it to preserve foods that can't be found during different seasons? Is it simply tradition, a hobby?? I can see the need for it in the "olden days" but why now? Educate me.
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Post by epeanymous on Apr 24, 2015 2:54:42 GMT
No snark I promise...will someone explain the reason for canning? Is it that you find product on sale then can it to preserve it to eat later in the season? Is it to preserve foods that can't be found during different seasons? Is it simply tradition, a hobby?? I can see the need for it in the "olden days" but why now? Educate me. If I canned, I would do so to preserve some of my backyard harvest (I live in a city but have a little urban garden that is hit or miss, but I often have things ripening more quickly than I can use all of them). I don't, because I wasn't taught to do it and am worried that I will make errors and . . . end up with food poisoning.
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raindancer
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,095
Jun 26, 2014 20:10:29 GMT
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Post by raindancer on Apr 24, 2015 3:09:38 GMT
Generally speaking that's correct, and it was botulism in this particular case, but the bigger picture is food poisoning in general and the other comments hold true for that. However botulism also lives in soil, so it is possible to get it by ingesting contaminated soil or breathing in spores released from the soil(rare but possible) so if people are washing soil contaminated hands in the kitchen or not washing soil contaminated hands at all, it could cause a problem...particularly in young children. Where should soil contaminated hands be washed? Not everyone has a garden or mudroom sink, and I question the wisdom of walking through the house to a bathroom to wash, possibly touching doorknobs and other surfaces as you go. I see no reason not to wash soiled hands in the kitchen sink just like I do with chicken juice covered hands. My sink and counters are disinfected after any germy use; you're not going to get food poisoning from my food because it was garden soil rather than chicken juice that I last washed from my hands there, since the area was subsequently disinfected either way. I don't know what kind of access you have to journals or what is open access, but check out the work of Dr. Kelly Reynolds and Dr. Charles Gerba at the University of arizona. They are both microbiologistso and environmental scientists and this is where the bulk of their research is focused. Very interesting studies they put out. Kelly also speaks to the media on these issues. It's possible they have actually done a study on this very question.
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Post by mrsscrapdiva on Apr 24, 2015 14:51:31 GMT
When I read this new article yesterday I immediately thought of the 2peas!
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 14:17:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 15:03:39 GMT
No, you can't get botulism by breathing in spores. OK, incorrect wording on my part - by "breathing in" I meant spores being released into the air and ending up being taken into the body via the nose and being swallowed and entering the gut. Although it wasn't what I meant, inhalation botulism does also exist:
link
and that's exactly the problem...you see no difference and that's precisely why it's potentially dangerous.
Not all "germs" (for want of a better word) are created equal, whatever disinfectant you use on one thing, may not work equally well or at all for others. It also depends on how they grow and how they reproduce and the 'load' needed to make you sick. Why do you think there are so many different types of antibiotics?...because they don't all kill every type of bacteria. And antibiotics don't kill viruses either. So the safest option is not to introduce them into the environment where food is stored, made or consumed.
I have a nursing degree, but not one in microbiology so off the top of my head I don't know if the bacteria/viruses/fungi in dog poop, or garden fertilizer are killed by my kitchen disinfectant. I'm not going to look it up each time I have dirty hands either, so I wash my hands in the bathroom where no-one is eating (well I'm not eating there, probably other people are about to tell me they do). Then I use the kitchen disinfectant that has been produced to kill the common and expected kitchen germs. And if you are using some high-powered heavy duty all purpose kill everything disinfectant - then I don't want to be eating food after the use of that either. So yes, if I saw you washing your dog, kid or dirty garden hands in the kitchen, I'd be politely declining any dinner invitations and tossing your cupcakes in the bin after you'd gone.
I'm just quoting you for your last comment. There are various natural ways to disinfect your kitchen, vinegar, hydrogen peroxide, lemon, silver water. I don't use any commercial disinfectant, just the ones mentioned.
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Post by khaleesi on Apr 24, 2015 15:46:36 GMT
No snark I promise...will someone explain the reason for canning? Is it that you find product on sale then can it to preserve it to eat later in the season? Is it to preserve foods that can't be found during different seasons? Is it simply tradition, a hobby?? I can see the need for it in the "olden days" but why now? Educate me. The only thing that we can is salsa that we make from our garden. My SIL cans much more and does it because of tradition from when she was growing up and when she can get a good buy on produce when it is in season.
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Post by Merge on Apr 24, 2015 16:07:22 GMT
No, you can't get botulism by breathing in spores. OK, incorrect wording on my part - by "breathing in" I meant spores being released into the air and ending up being taken into the body via the nose and being swallowed and entering the gut. Although it wasn't what I meant, inhalation botulism does also exist:
link
and that's exactly the problem...you see no difference and that's precisely why it's potentially dangerous.
Not all "germs" (for want of a better word) are created equal, whatever disinfectant you use on one thing, may not work equally well or at all for others. It also depends on how they grow and how they reproduce and the 'load' needed to make you sick. Why do you think there are so many different types of antibiotics?...because they don't all kill every type of bacteria. And antibiotics don't kill viruses either. So the safest option is not to introduce them into the environment where food is stored, made or consumed.
I have a nursing degree, but not one in microbiology so off the top of my head I don't know if the bacteria/viruses/fungi in dog poop, or garden fertilizer are killed by my kitchen disinfectant. I'm not going to look it up each time I have dirty hands either, so I wash my hands in the bathroom where no-one is eating (well I'm not eating there, probably other people are about to tell me they do). Then I use the kitchen disinfectant that has been produced to kill the common and expected kitchen germs. And if you are using some high-powered heavy duty all purpose kill everything disinfectant - then I don't want to be eating food after the use of that either. So yes, if I saw you washing your dog, kid or dirty garden hands in the kitchen, I'd be politely declining any dinner invitations and tossing your cupcakes in the bin after you'd gone.
Don't worry; I won't be inviting you for dinner or making you any cupcakes. But if you're interested in the opinions of experts, according to the CDC, bleach kills botulism spores.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 17:25:44 GMT
This reminds me of the jar of pickles we found in my grandmother's basement. She used to can her own pickles and they were good. This jar had been sitting in her basement for years and years. The green pickles had turned brown and it looked more like a jar of poop than pickles. The lid was starting to rust. We were taking guesses at how long it had been down there. If I remember right, they stopped growing their own veggies a few years before my grandfather passed away so the brown jar of "pickles" was at least 20 years old. It went right into the trash. No way were we going to open that.
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janeinbama
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,200
Location: Alabama
Jan 29, 2015 16:24:49 GMT
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Post by janeinbama on Apr 24, 2015 17:54:56 GMT
I only do water bath canning. I am scared of pressure cookers and canners. One summer I put up green beans with a water bath. I had 10-12 qts later on I would smell an odor in the closet were all many canning was stored and could not figure it out. Several months later I was in the closet and moved a jar of green beans and it bubbled ummm not good.
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Post by kelbel827 on Apr 25, 2015 0:16:18 GMT
People at work wonder why I don't do potlucks. I don't do salad bars, or buffets either. Totally gross me out!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 0:27:55 GMT
I can for several reasons, some of which have already been mentioned. It's cost effective to buy local produce when it's in season and can it for use during the winter, as well as what I grow in my small garden. I like knowing exactly what is in each jar of food. I'm ready for an emergency situation-we could last several months on what I have in jars. There are no chemicals in my food. There are no rodent hairs, mouse droppings or bug parts in my jars...which our USDA allows in commercially canned foods. CBS report , it's nice to be able to whip up a meal after a long day by just popping open a few jars and heating them up and lastly, it's a very satisfying hobby.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 0:35:11 GMT
OK, incorrect wording on my part - by "breathing in" I meant spores being released into the air and ending up being taken into the body via the nose and being swallowed and entering the gut. Although it wasn't what I meant, inhalation botulism does also exist:
link
and that's exactly the problem...you see no difference and that's precisely why it's potentially dangerous.
Not all "germs" (for want of a better word) are created equal, whatever disinfectant you use on one thing, may not work equally well or at all for others. It also depends on how they grow and how they reproduce and the 'load' needed to make you sick. Why do you think there are so many different types of antibiotics?...because they don't all kill every type of bacteria. And antibiotics don't kill viruses either. So the safest option is not to introduce them into the environment where food is stored, made or consumed.
I have a nursing degree, but not one in microbiology so off the top of my head I don't know if the bacteria/viruses/fungi in dog poop, or garden fertilizer are killed by my kitchen disinfectant. I'm not going to look it up each time I have dirty hands either, so I wash my hands in the bathroom where no-one is eating (well I'm not eating there, probably other people are about to tell me they do). Then I use the kitchen disinfectant that has been produced to kill the common and expected kitchen germs. And if you are using some high-powered heavy duty all purpose kill everything disinfectant - then I don't want to be eating food after the use of that either. So yes, if I saw you washing your dog, kid or dirty garden hands in the kitchen, I'd be politely declining any dinner invitations and tossing your cupcakes in the bin after you'd gone.
Don't worry; I won't be inviting you for dinner or making you any cupcakes. But if you're interested in the opinions of experts, according to the CDC, bleach kills botulism spores. Bleach does not kill botulism spores (or any spores.) Spores are only eliminated by high heat under pressure for a certain length of time.
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 14:17:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 0:43:31 GMT
Some good info:
I personally am okay with potlucks. Even with my immune system issues. The risk is so miniscule that I am willing to chance it.
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Post by Woobster on Apr 25, 2015 1:02:12 GMT
I just took part in a potluck today at work. Doesn't worry me a bit. If food is being served outside, I am more careful about what I put on my plate.
My mom pressure cans LOTS of stuff! They live in Kansas and have a large garden. Tomatoes, green beans, pickles, salsas, roasted green chili (some grown, some bought from Hatch), salsas, spaghetti sauce, cooked chicken, stews, apple sauce, fruit jams and jellies, etc. I probably would have starved to death as a kid if it weren't for canned foods. My mom has it down to a science. I believe she has 2 or 3 pressure canners that run non-stop during canning season. She loves to cook, so by growing a lot of produce and herbs at home, she can put a ton of food away for cheap, and eat really well all winter long.
I also grew up in a very Mormon area (though I'm not Mormon, myself)... Those people can all kinds of stuff!
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Post by Merge on Apr 25, 2015 1:11:31 GMT
Don't worry; I won't be inviting you for dinner or making you any cupcakes. But if you're interested in the opinions of experts, according to the CDC, bleach kills botulism spores. Bleach does not kill botulism spores (or any spores.) Spores are only eliminated by high heat under pressure for a certain length of time. OK, well, I'm using the wrong terminology then, but this CDC link says that an area contaminated with botulism should be cleaned with a dilute bleach solution. www.cdc.gov/Features/HomeCanning/index.htmlPjaye seemed to think that goodness only knew what might clean up any botulism that came in on your hands with garden soil. It would appear it's really not that difficult at all - just bleach, which is the active ingredient in many kitchen cleaning sprays. I wondered further last night if she would also clean garden vegetables in the bathroom rather than the kitchen, since they have soil on them and all, and how she reconciles contaminating her bathroom sink with the fact that people wash their hands and faces in that sink.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2015 1:38:37 GMT
Bleach does not kill botulism spores (or any spores.) Spores are only eliminated by high heat under pressure for a certain length of time. OK, well, I'm using the wrong terminology then, but this CDC link says that an area contaminated with botulism should be cleaned with a dilute bleach solution. www.cdc.gov/Features/HomeCanning/index.htmlPjaye seemed to think that goodness only knew what might clean up any botulism that came in on your hands with garden soil. It would appear it's really not that difficult at all - just bleach, which is the active ingredient in many kitchen cleaning sprays. I wondered further last night if she would also clean garden vegetables in the bathroom rather than the kitchen, since they have soil on them and all, and how she reconciles contaminating her bathroom sink with the fact that people wash their hands and faces in that sink. It's confusing, for sure. I think the clean-up advice is the best that can be done for surfaces and areas that cannot be heat-blasted. We try to sort of contain it and move it away from where it can do its worst damage. I do agree with you about the hand (and vegetable! ) washing, though.
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Post by its me mg on Apr 26, 2016 18:00:21 GMT
I don't have any data, but I suspect you are far more at risk of food borne illness/disease eating at a restaurant than you are at the random potluck. This is a really sad story, but pretty unlikely I suspect. Actually, there was a study done in an adjacent county a few years back and far more people ended up in the hospital with food poisoning from church potlucks than from restaurants. I think there are two things at play here - you're probably going to get sick at a restaurant just because of the fact you likely frequent restaurants more then potlucks. You're more exposed to restaurants. On the other hand, you're more likely to get sick at a potluck because food safety measures are likely not being followed and there are no systems in place to track these things.
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Post by lbp on Apr 26, 2016 20:38:36 GMT
I can vegetables because we have a huge garden and I don't like additives in my food. I follow the directions given on my pressure canner.
I have been very ill from food poisoning twice in my life. Once from eating at Denny's (our entire family order the same thing and we were all at the Drs. and the other time from eating at Outback Steak House, this time just me and my friend got sick. We ordered the same thing.
I guess I am a rebel eater. I eat at potlucks, buffets, food trucks and people with grills on the side of the road!
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Post by ~summer~ on Apr 27, 2016 1:21:18 GMT
You are far more likely to be killed driving to the potluck than sickened by botulism at the potluck. We all need to choose what we are Leary of but for me eating at a potluck is not one of them.
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StephDRebel
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,691
Location: Ohio
Jul 5, 2014 1:53:49 GMT
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Post by StephDRebel on Apr 27, 2016 1:28:57 GMT
What a strange thread to be bumped.
We're still canning, and church dinnering away here in Ohio.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 1:39:27 GMT
Well if we are going to get nitpicky about food sanitation to the point of saying that washing your hands in the kitchen sink isn't good enough, then I have to question anyone who has a dog or a cat. Both walk in areas where they go to the bathroom - cats especially. If they are (God forbid, but I know it's common) allowed on the counters or your furniture and you touch that, then you are in essence potentially contaminating your hands with animal feces.
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Post by refugeepea on Apr 27, 2016 1:40:31 GMT
I also grew up in a very Mormon area (though I'm not Mormon, myself)... Those people can all kinds of stuff! I should take a picture of my mom's storage room that is mainly for canned goods. The other room is for store bought canned goods and storage. I'm not big into canning, but my entire family borrows all the bottles from my mom and returns throughout the year for more canning in the summer! Ha! A year old thread!
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Deleted
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Sept 29, 2024 14:17:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 3:04:39 GMT
I always love it when a year old post reappears! LOL! I couldn't figure out what on earth I had posted today that was getting so many likes.
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