marianne
Pearl Clutcher
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Location: right smack dab in the middle of SC
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Jun 25, 2014 21:08:26 GMT
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Post by marianne on Apr 28, 2015 4:38:59 GMT
Your BIL will be in my thoughts and prayers. I read in the Washington Post that it's believed to be caused by construction, not related to the riots. Hmmm... interesting. WRC news (our local NBC channel) reported earlier that it was related to the riots... said it was arson, along with several car fires on that side of the city. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out. |
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 14:30:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 4:55:22 GMT
Not only is it arson, but they are looting most of the places that they're lighting on fire. Seeing the firemen struggling to find survivors in buildings and attempting to put out fires while their hoses are slashed 15 times, is making me sick. How could destroying your own town bring about any change that's positive?
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Post by berty on Apr 28, 2015 5:27:21 GMT
I don't think that saying the rioters are wrong in any way excuses or diminishes the seriousness of the harm done to Mr. Gray.
I remember seeing a recent news story about how many people in Fergeson (sp?) chose to take action. A number of African American people ran for city council and many citizens who didn't usually vote did. This resulted in a new city council that reflects the diversity of the city's population more. I think this is the real way to bring about change. Sure, it doesn't make for an exciting news clip, but it also creates the chance for real, lasting changes that doesn't involve harm to any people or property.
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happymomma
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Post by happymomma on Apr 28, 2015 6:05:37 GMT
I'm just praying for everyone involved. I am horrified that our country has come down to this.
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Post by momof3pits on Apr 28, 2015 6:51:45 GMT
How awful for the city of baltimore. Why destroy your city??
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Post by mollycoddle on Apr 28, 2015 9:53:29 GMT
I don't profess to be all knowing like some peas. I'm not a riot expert. Nothing I've said in this thread should have lead anyone to believe I am okay with the fact that people are rioting and looting. I used very pointed and clear wording and shared my views on the killing of black men at the hands of police. Thank you for not allowing the riots or the people here to forget why this is happening. The police murdered Freddie Gray and they need to held responsible for that. Now. I agree, and his death certainly looks suspicious. My understanding is that police conduct IS being investigated, and the newly sworn in AG has pledged the full resources of the federal govt. in the investigation. And rightly so. Having said that, the people who are burning and destroying property are not protestors; they are criminals. I personally have no problem with tazing someone who cuts a fire hose, for example. Those fires were horrific. I believe that it is possible to feel sympathy and outrage over Mr. Gray's death, and also to feel outrage over all of the destruction and damage that is happening. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. |
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Post by kluski on Apr 28, 2015 10:51:27 GMT
How awful for the city of baltimore. Why destroy your city?? Because it's a cycle of ignorance...uneducated, uninformed, non productive members/leeches of society. This has nothing to do with the death of Gray and more about the 'freedom' to express their true selves. Next there will be unrest bc businesses are closed and won't reopen. Productive members of that part of the city have worked for years to try to clean it up and redevelop it in an attempt to elicite pride in their community. Work that has now been set back decades. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 28, 2015 12:25:45 GMT
In one of my police wife groups a lot of the ladies are down that way and their DHs work there. They are all reporting theirs DHs have been hit with bricks, bottles with fire among other stuff. One woman said her DH dept can't afford the proper gear for something like this so he is out there in regular uniform. Talk is going around where my DH works about asking them to volunteer to go down there since we're a little less than 2hrs away. I really am nervous for him to go if that happens. His Kevlar vest is outdated by many years and we can't afford a new one. No slam on you or anything, but how can one not afford it? To me in that situation, it is life or death and would make sure that somehow a vest was bought, because the alternative would be horrific. Imagine being at a funeral and hearing the words "we couldn't afford a new vest" |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 28, 2015 12:44:54 GMT
Were you all as horrified by the video of the police dragging Mr. Gray's body with his broken spine and when they through him in the back of the van as you are about the looting and protesting? I don't think what's going on is at all right but I didn't see this outrage when the video of Mr. Gray dying with his broken spine was shown. Interesting. If he was so innocent, why did he run to escape the police? Interesting indeed. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 28, 2015 12:47:10 GMT
My question was based on her comments that the Baltimore Police are too busy policing rioters instead of finding out what happened to Mr. Gray. What was the need for your seemingly rhetorical question? Where did I say the Department of Justice wasn't "authentic" or "authortive" enough for me? And why the hell does it matter what I think. As long as it's "enough" for the loved ones of the HUMAN BEING who had his spine snapped at the hands of the police eh. Do you think the investigation will set their world back on axis? Because you seem intent, throughout this whole thread, to simply hone in on the circumstances of Mr. Gray's death, which everyone here has agreed was criminally wrong, and somewhat dismiss the fact that a faction of violent thugs are determined to destroy as much of the city as they can, using Mr. Gray's death as an excuse. People aren't condoning what happened to Mr. Gray; they're condemning the criminal behavior of the thugs. And, no, of course the investigation won't set Mr. Gray's loved ones world back on axis; by the same token, destroying the city won't bring him back either. You are right my comments here were to continue to remind those so outraged about rioting and looting that there is something else to be outraged about. And I disagree that everyone here acknowledges that what happened to Gray is criminal and worthy of even the same degree of outrage. That is abundantly clear in this thread and in many others where the deaths of black men are discussed. A pea can post about her son being arrested for rape and everyone rallies but when a person of color dies on the street before even being charged the consensus is "let's get the facts first" or as rampant in this thread deflection shown in statements like "Wait you mean to tell me you are okay with rioting", "He had a rap sheet a mile long", "Look at the other "thugs" over there stealing toilet paper in the "name" of Gray", "Darren Wilson's life is ruined" etc |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 28, 2015 13:05:36 GMT
My limited understanding is that he had a rap sheet a mile long and was well known by the cops in his area. His eye contact was immediately followed by running. Given his history and sudden need to bolt, the police assumed he was up to no good.
Again, my limited understanding. I read this in two different places and reserve the right to be totally incorrect.
If that's true then they should have done their job and taken him into custody without murdering him. If he would have been innocent, had not taken off running from police when ordered to stop, he might still be here. He set his fate in motion. Police brutality is wrong, I'll state that first. Using fool-Ana's account of the incident for illustration (because no one knows yet exactly what happened) she claims that everyone should see crystal clearly and be out raged at the video of Mr. grays broken spice when the hand cuffed him and pulled him up from the ground. Tackling a person of suspect who is running from police is not police brutality. You don't see him being beaten or abused in the video that is supposed to outrage us, according to fool-Ana, you see police arresting a person who ran. He appears to stumble with his steps and drag his foot/feet, which MANY who are arrested fighting and resisting. His injury could have happened when he was "tackled" by police, again while he was ignoring orders to stop. I won't be surprised to hear that this is the case, a very sad and unfortunate accident and result of his trying to flee and police trying to detain him. (Accident similar to when this sort of injury happens in sports, football) I'm not ready to scream brutality yet about this one, however regardless of Mr. gray, what they are doing in Baltimore is just wrong, illegal and fool-Ana for you to try to rationalize it, compare it, reason it side by side and an eye for an eye is just idiotic. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 28, 2015 13:14:14 GMT
If that's true then they should have done their job and taken him into custody without murdering him. If he would have been innocent, had not taken off running from police when ordered to stop, he might still be here. He set his fate in motion. Police brutality is wrong, I'll state that first. Using fool-Ana's account of the incident for illustration (because no one knows yet exactly what happened) she claims that everyone should see crystal clearly and be out raged at the video of Mr. grays broken spice when the hand cuffed him and pulled him up from the ground. Tackling a person of suspect who is running from police is not police brutality. You don't see him being beaten or abused in the video that is supposed to outrage us, according to fool-Ana, you see police arresting a person who ran. He appears to stumble with his steps and drag his foot/feet, which MANY who are arrested fighting and resisting. His injury could have happened when he was "tackled" by police, again while he was ignoring orders to stop. I won't be surprised to hear that this is the case, a very sad and unfortunate accident and result of his trying to flee and police trying to detain him. (Accident similar to when this sort of injury happens in sports, football) I'm not ready to scream brutality yet about this one, however regardless of Mr. gray, what they are doing in Baltimore is just wrong, illegal and fool-Ana for you to try to rationalize it, compare it, reason it side by side and an eye for an eye is just idiotic. Did you state that first?  because how your post reads to me is...If he were innocent he wouldn't have been running and he set his own death into motion by doing so. We live in the United States of America running doesn't make you guilty and even if he were guilty of a crime the punishment isn't DEATH. |
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Post by anxiousmom on Apr 28, 2015 13:25:19 GMT
Re: the use of the word thug
I say this with some regularity, but I live in an area that has historical race issues. People speak in hushed tones, using codes words and searching looks about "them." While it may not be the same in other areas of the country, it has been my experience that the term "thug" is generally reserved for African-Americans. Perhaps this is another one of those regional word usage issues-one that isn't nearly as funny as do you call it "coke" or "pop" or "soda."
Re: the idea that there wasn't outrage about the death of Freddie Gray
There was. There were a lot of conversations in the anxious household, and I imagine we weren't the only ones. In fact, my guess is that those of us with teenagers who are questioning everything that they have been taught about the police have talked a lot about the idea that the world isn't what they heard when they were little. We talk about race, about justice, about how to achieve peace and parity, we talk about the difference between rioting and protesting and when one becomes the other. We talk about how in our fairly insulated world we have different options to be heard. In our case, the boy's dad is an attorney, so they grew hearing about the legal system, how to use it, how to access it, and how it isn't the same for everyone else.
There is anger. The teens I see are talking about it. They want it to stop. But the problem is that we (the global we) don't know exactly HOW to stop it. We are all learning at the same time.
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Post by redayh on Apr 28, 2015 13:36:07 GMT
Rioting accomplishes nothing, and in fact, actually works to the detriment of those with the issue that caused them to riot in the first place.
I'll never understand it.
I also will never understand how some people can disregard a taking of a human life.
I'm becoming increasingly disheartened with the world we live in.
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Post by Merge on Apr 28, 2015 13:40:53 GMT
Something I've noticed in my years of teaching is that some people are just attracted to/feed off of chaos. It seems to satisfy them in a way nothing else will. You can see it when a class is out of control - there are a few kids in the middle of the fray who are just delighted with it all. It's not unique to any race, gender or class situation that I've noticed. Those who enjoy chaos will look for any excuse or opening to bring it about.
Just an observation.
My thoughts are with the family of Freddie Gray and the people of Baltimore currently dealing with the chaos-lovers in their midst.
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Deleted
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Nov 23, 2024 14:30:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 13:41:07 GMT
Last night and this morning, I have been viewing images online from the Civil Rights movement from the 60's.
Those men and women (white and black) were so brave. When faced with fire hoses, biting dogs, aggressive and violent policemen, how did they respond? Peacefully. They did not respond with violence.
I wish that today, the young people across our nation revisited some of the pictures and some of the history that their parents/grandparents made and reassess their own behavior and attitudes. |
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Post by jumperhop on Apr 28, 2015 13:43:13 GMT
Made the mistake of going to CNN's homepage. Heartbreaking!
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thatgirlintexas
Junior Member
Posts: 53
Location: Night Vale
Jun 26, 2014 1:30:39 GMT
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Post by thatgirlintexas on Apr 28, 2015 14:02:19 GMT
Last night and this morning, I have been viewing images online from the Civil Rights movement from the 60's.
Those men and women (white and black) were so brave. When faced with fire hoses, biting dogs, aggressive and violent policemen, how did they respond? Peacefully. They did not respond with violence.
I wish that today, the young people across our nation revisited some of the pictures and some of the history that their parents/grandparents made and reassess their own behavior and attitudes. Because in the 60's there was a movement to train people in nonviolent protest. It happened in universities and churches across the country. People were trained to stand their ground and not react to what was being done to them. |
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Post by katieanna on Apr 28, 2015 14:06:27 GMT
I'm just praying for everyone involved. I am horrified that our country has come down to this. My fear is that we aren't seeing the last of this....Ferguson was just the beginning. |
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Post by momofkandn on Apr 28, 2015 14:49:34 GMT
Your BIL will be in my thoughts and prayers. I read in the Washington Post that it's believed to be caused by construction, not related to the riots. Word this morning is that the ATF has been called in to investigate the cause. The Baltimore fire department believes it was arson. |
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peppermintpatty
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Post by peppermintpatty on Apr 28, 2015 14:56:58 GMT
I am 45 mintues away and I heard helicopters flying around most of the evening and into the night. I was worried that the violence might spread beyond Baltimore.
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marianne
Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys. . . My monkeys fly!
Posts: 4,176
Location: right smack dab in the middle of SC
Site Supporter
Jun 25, 2014 21:08:26 GMT
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Post by marianne on Apr 28, 2015 15:03:30 GMT
Because you seem intent, throughout this whole thread, to simply hone in on the circumstances of Mr. Gray's death, which everyone here has agreed was criminally wrong, and somewhat dismiss the fact that a faction of violent thugs are determined to destroy as much of the city as they can, using Mr. Gray's death as an excuse. People aren't condoning what happened to Mr. Gray; they're condemning the criminal behavior of the thugs. And, no, of course the investigation won't set Mr. Gray's loved ones world back on axis; by the same token, destroying the city won't bring him back either. You are right my comments here were to continue to remind those so outraged about rioting and looting that there is something else to be outraged about. And I disagree that everyone here acknowledges that what happened to Gray is criminal and worthy of even the same degree of outrage. That is abundantly clear in this thread and in many others where the deaths of black men are discussed. A pea can post about her son being arrested for rape and everyone rallies but when a person of color dies on the street before even being charged the consensus is "let's get the facts first" or as rampant in this thread deflection shown in statements like "Wait you mean to tell me you are okay with rioting", "He had a rap sheet a mile long", "Look at the other "thugs" over there stealing toilet paper in the "name" of Gray", "Darren Wilson's life is ruined" etc I'm not sure why you think we need to be reminded of what happened to Mr. Gray, we're not morons. You can disagree all you want, but those of us who iive in this state ARE outraged about the man's death. Those of us who live here ARE demanding investigation... and justice... into the circumstances of his death. Just because you don't see it being played out on a message board, doesn't mean it's not happening and doesn't mean that the citizens of MD feel no outrage about how this man died. Most of us just don't go around rioting and breaking the law in order to express it. I can't speak for anyone else, and we can't fix what's wrong in this country on this message board... we can only do what we can do in our own areas. So, please, don't paint us all with the same broad brush while you go about reminding us of what we already know. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 15:04:44 GMT
I read in the Washington Post that it's believed to be caused by construction, not related to the riots. Word this morning is that the ATF has been called in to investigate the cause. The Baltimore fire department believes it was arson. That's too bad. I was hopeful it would be unrelated, but we all know how fluid information is early on. |
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Post by knit.pea on Apr 28, 2015 15:21:19 GMT
There really are no adequate words, for his death and the rioting.
What will ever make a change?
Police will continue to subdue people. Rioters will continue to take advantage.
What will ever make a change?
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Post by Regina Phalange on Apr 28, 2015 15:38:55 GMT
I don't think so. IIRC, Beadhound was very anti-police. Eta...posted without thinking!  You could be right. I'm late to this thread and just began reading, but wanting justice for the man who was killed does not make one "anti-police." I don't remember Foolana saying anything to the effect of "Yay rioters, beat the police!!" |
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Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 28, 2015 16:20:47 GMT
I know that, I was curious what she would say. A thug is a thug no matter what color, just like an asshole is an asshole no matter what color. Too true and I knew you knew.  And I meant to put a  in my reply to you |
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Post by kandie on Apr 28, 2015 16:30:34 GMT
Police education and training
Most police officers are not the culprits. But obviously something needs to be changed. A man should not have a spine fracture or crushed trachea from being arrested, period.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Apr 28, 2015 16:44:44 GMT
^^^ so with that, you're saying the police (and their lack of training, whatever) are to blame for this? They are the root cause of people looting, ransacking, and destroying their own city??
How about 'people should do what's RIGHT and NOT break the law??' Maybe something about 'protesting peacefully is a better way to get your point across than destroying where you live?' Is any of that in there somewhere? Or is there no responsibility on the general public whatsoever to have decent morals and know right from wrong??
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Post by foolana on Apr 28, 2015 16:54:58 GMT
^^^ so with that, you're saying the police (and their lack of training, whatever) are to blame for this? They are the root cause of people looting, ransacking, and destroying their own city?? How about 'people should do what's RIGHT and NOT break the law??' Maybe something about 'protesting peacefully is a better way to get your point across than destroying where you live?' Is any of that in there somewhere? Or is there no responsibility on the general public whatsoever to have decent morals and know right from wrong?? While not disagreeing with you, the police broke the law by murdering Mr. Gray and I don't see much outrage here about that. Are the police held to a different standard when it comes to breaking the law? |
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Post by foolana on Apr 28, 2015 16:57:56 GMT
Were you all as horrified by the video of the police dragging Mr. Gray's body with his broken spine and when they through him in the back of the van as you are about the looting and protesting? I don't think what's going on is at all right but I didn't see this outrage when the video of Mr. Gray dying with his broken spine was shown. Interesting. If he was so innocent, why did he run to escape the police? Interesting indeed. So you're saying running from the police is a capital offense? The police acted as judge, jury and executioner for his crime of running from them. Are you really that ridiculous? |
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because how your post reads to me is...If he were innocent he wouldn't have been running and he set his own death into motion by doing so. We live in the United States of America running doesn't make you guilty and even if he were guilty of a crime the punishment isn't DEATH. 
Refupea #39
You could be right. 
in my reply to you 
