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Post by Darcy Collins on Apr 28, 2015 19:37:07 GMT
I can be absolutely outraged at police brutality regardless of race. Where my understanding and empathy begin to wane is not seeing the exact SAME level of outrage from the exact SAME people every time a violent crime is committed against a black person on a DAILY basis, statistically by members of their OWN race. The percentage of black deaths by cops doesn't come near to the percentage of black on black crime. Where is the rioting and looting on a daily basis to protest the senseless deaths of black men caused by black men or is it really code for "we only care when it is cop on black or white on black deaths" Black on black crime and police brutality are two separate issues. Liken it to saying hey "yall kill each other so why can't we" all while wearing a hood. That rhetoric is sooo nonsensical. Your empathy can't wane if it was nonexistent in the first place. I'm actually not sure they are two separate issues. I think incidents like what's happening in Baltimore have roots in the extremely high crime rates. Baltimore has the fifth highest murder rate with 37 per 100,000 individuals - and the vast majority (189/233) are black. Violent crime is also about 10 times the national average. When you're attempting to police areas with high crime rates, the interaction between residents and communities is vastly different than between police and residents in low crime areas. This adversarial relationship is a huge problem. It's almost akin to the issues our military personnel experience in other countries. It doesn't matter if the vast majority of individuals policing are decent, hardworking people - the negative interactions of a few start to to impact the way the residents perceive the police, which of course contributes to the way the police perceive the residents. It's a real problem. I think these issues go way deeper than just don't resist arrest and don't brutalize suspects. Poverty, joblessness, broken schools and essentially broken communities are all playing a role here. |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 28, 2015 19:45:35 GMT
Black on black crime and police brutality are two separate issues. Liken it to saying hey "yall kill each other so why can't we" all while wearing a hood. That rhetoric is sooo nonsensical. Your empathy can't wane if it was nonexistent in the first place. I'm actually not sure they are two separate issues. I think incidents like what's happening in Baltimore have roots in the extremely high crime rates. Baltimore has the fifth highest murder rate with 37 per 100,000 individuals - and the vast majority (189/233) are black. Violent crime is also about 10 times the national average. When you're attempting to police areas with high crime rates, the interaction between residents and communities is vastly different than between police and residents in low crime areas. This adversarial relationship is a huge problem. It's almost akin to the issues our military personnel experience in other countries. It doesn't matter if the vast majority of individuals policing are decent, hardworking people - the negative interactions of a few start to to impact the way the residents perceive the police, which of course contributes to the way the police perceive the residents. It's a real problem. I think these issues go way deeper than just don't resist arrest and don't brutalize suspects. Poverty, joblessness, broken schools and essentially broken communities are all playing a role here. I see what you are saying here. I |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 28, 2015 19:48:17 GMT
Black on black crime and police brutality are two separate issues. Liken it to saying hey "yall kill each other so why can't we" all while wearing a hood. That rhetoric is sooo nonsensical. Your empathy can't wane if it was nonexistent in the first place. Please. No one is saying either is right. No where in my post is the concept of "ya'll kill each other so why can't we". I'm saying BOTH are EQUALLY wrong, yet only ONE gets YOU and others worked up to this level of concern. And if your last comment is a veiled attempt at calling me a racist, honey, think again. I'm currently seeing someone who is of mixed decent, and he is embarrassed by these thugs as well. I have a Latino friend who is embarrassed of the thugs he grew up with, so when he gets out of the Navy in a month, he's looking for a town where he can feel safe away from them. In fact, I would say only a small percentage of my friends and exes have been or are actually Caucasian. So take YOUR racism and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I don't care what you think of me mostly because this is the internet but more importantly after seeing your interactions and opinions of this board I don't think very highly of you however I didn't say you were racist. While lacking empathy makes you a shitty human being it doesn't shake out the same as being racist. More misguided |
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Post by gmcwife1 on Apr 28, 2015 19:53:50 GMT
In the same vein why can't some people on this thread get that being outraged by police brutality isn't the same as condoning rioting. Also I rarely see any outrage about police brutality and the deaths of black men at the hands of police. Instead I see comments like "Let's wait until all the facts are laid out" or "He was a thug" etc. It saddens me. I can be absolutely outraged at police brutality regardless of race. Where my understanding and empathy begin to wane is not seeing the exact SAME level of outrage from the exact SAME people every time a violent crime is committed against a black person on a DAILY basis, statistically by members of their OWN race. The percentage of black deaths by cops doesn't come near to the percentage of black on black crime. Where is the rioting and looting on a daily basis to protest the senseless deaths of black men caused by black men or is it really code for "we only care when it is cop on black or white on black deaths" It is interesting - so black lives matter when . . . They should ALWAYS matter no matter who has killed them, and it does look hypocritical when there is not the same outrage for all of the deaths. |
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Post by compwalla on Apr 28, 2015 20:02:02 GMT
They should ALWAYS matter no matter who has killed them, and it does look hypocritical when there is not the same outrage for all of the deaths. Nope. A group of people charged with upholding the law, with serving and protecting the public - they rightly should be held to a different standard than the rest of the citizenry. When someone in authority abuses their power, it is always more egregious a violation. A teacher banging her student? Worse by miles than students banging each other. Police officers killing suspects who are handcuffed and restrained? Cackling with laughter over the suffocating person? Always worse by miles than two regular guys enter a fight and one guy leaves. |
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azredhead
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Post by azredhead on Apr 28, 2015 20:13:37 GMT
I pray that all stays safe there tonight and that the National Guard can restore some sort of calm, it's nice to see some good people in the communiity even the gangs working,at least they are reporting that, they are meeting together to try to make some sort of calm. It's just sad. The destruction is not the answer and it destroys getting the answers.
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stittsygirl
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Post by stittsygirl on Apr 28, 2015 20:24:12 GMT
They should ALWAYS matter no matter who has killed them, and it does look hypocritical when there is not the same outrage for all of the deaths. Nope. A group of people charged with upholding the law, with serving and protecting the public - they rightly should be held to a different standard than the rest of the citizenry. When someone in authority abuses their power, it is always more egregious a violation. A teacher banging her student? Worse by miles than students banging each other. Police officers killing suspects who are handcuffed and restrained? Cackling with laughter over the suffocating person? Always worse by miles than two regular guys enter a fight and one guy leaves. Thank you, and as always well said. I don't understand people who don't see the difference. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Apr 28, 2015 20:54:04 GMT
Please. No one is saying either is right. No where in my post is the concept of "ya'll kill each other so why can't we". I'm saying BOTH are EQUALLY wrong, yet only ONE gets YOU and others worked up to this level of concern. And if your last comment is a veiled attempt at calling me a racist, honey, think again. I'm currently seeing someone who is of mixed decent, and he is embarrassed by these thugs as well. I have a Latino friend who is embarrassed of the thugs he grew up with, so when he gets out of the Navy in a month, he's looking for a town where he can feel safe away from them. In fact, I would say only a small percentage of my friends and exes have been or are actually Caucasian. So take YOUR racism and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I don't care what you think of me mostly because this is the internet but more importantly after seeing your interactions and opinions of this board I don't think very highly of you however I didn't say you were racist. While lacking empathy makes you a shitty human being it doesn't shake out the same as being racist. More misguided That's no problem, because I don't have a clue who you are. I don't remember interacting with you at all before. So no biggie there. I would say that you are the one excusing behavior and glossing over the bigger issues in exchange for the less prevalent issues. I'd call that misguided. Do I have empathy for Mr Gray. Absolutely. 100%. I feel horrible that he is dead, and if it was preventable (which I can't see any reason it wouldn't have been) while still arresting him, then absolutely the cops involved MUST be held accountable for his death. The riots taking place in Baltimore that you want to justify because of the way in which Mr Gray died is what mystifies me. There is no justification. So while I have all the empathy in the world for Mr. Gray, I have none for the protesters. And not surprisingly after reading this thread, you like some other well known deflectors, avoided the real issue of my post. Since you feel some justification for the rioting, or at least a great more outrage over Mr Grays death than the riots, where is your same level of outrage on a daily basis for all the numerous deaths that take place that aren't caused by Cops. Because those numbers and that loss of life is staggering and appalling. JUST as outrageous as Mr Gray's death. It is hypocritical to be outraged over one and not the other. I, myself, can be outraged at all of it. You seem to only want to focus on one person rather than thousands. |
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Post by jonda1974 on Apr 28, 2015 20:58:15 GMT
They should ALWAYS matter no matter who has killed them, and it does look hypocritical when there is not the same outrage for all of the deaths. Nope. A group of people charged with upholding the law, with serving and protecting the public - they rightly should be held to a different standard than the rest of the citizenry. When someone in authority abuses their power, it is always more egregious a violation. A teacher banging her student? Worse by miles than students banging each other. Police officers killing suspects who are handcuffed and restrained? Cackling with laughter over the suffocating person? Always worse by miles than two regular guys enter a fight and one guy leaves. I don't disagree Compwalla and I don't agree either. In the instances that you gave, they are 1 to 1. 1 cop killing 1 man, 1 teacher banging 1 student. In that instance, absolutely the crime by the person in power is more grievous. But that's different than my point. My point is at what number does the 1 cop killing 1 man deserve equal to or less outrage. When 100 black men are killed on the street by regular people, 500? 1000? Or in your eyes is the crime of 1 cop ALWAYS more outrageous regardless of the quantity of other crimes it is up against? Off Topic - Did you change your profile pic? You look fabulous. |
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Post by foolana on Apr 28, 2015 21:58:39 GMT
Please. No one is saying either is right. No where in my post is the concept of "ya'll kill each other so why can't we". I'm saying BOTH are EQUALLY wrong, yet only ONE gets YOU and others worked up to this level of concern. And if your last comment is a veiled attempt at calling me a racist, honey, think again. I'm currently seeing someone who is of mixed decent, and he is embarrassed by these thugs as well. I have a Latino friend who is embarrassed of the thugs he grew up with, so when he gets out of the Navy in a month, he's looking for a town where he can feel safe away from them. In fact, I would say only a small percentage of my friends and exes have been or are actually Caucasian. So take YOUR racism and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. I don't care what you think of me mostly because this is the internet but more importantly after seeing your interactions and opinions of this board I don't think very highly of you however I didn't say you were racist. While lacking empathy makes you a shitty human being it doesn't shake out the same as being racist. More misguided THIS! I love the "I can't be racist because I have a friend/am dating/know someone who's a minority. I don't think very highly of Jonda either. |
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Post by foolana on Apr 28, 2015 22:03:28 GMT
Sometimes people who call themselves the most religious are the most closed minded. Knowing bible stories does not make you a compassionate person. And yes, this is aimed at you, Jonda.
No one here thinks the riots are justified and how dare you refer to "protesters" when you talk about what happened last night. Is it so hard to understand that without the horrendous murder of Mr. Gray last night's riots wouldn't have happened? Do I need to make a timeline for you?
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Post by boxermom73 on Apr 28, 2015 22:12:10 GMT
Yup, same problem. I don't care what color you are when you say it. It means the same thing. so you have a problem with the word thug, do ya?  i don't care what color you are. if you perpetuate it, it means the same thing......a thug is a thug, is a thug. thug, thug, thug, thuggity thug... fool-ana...get over yourself...you can't win this one. they are thugs!!!!! cindy wow mature dialogue ... |
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Apr 28, 2015 22:27:56 GMT
I don't care what you think of me mostly because this is the internet but more importantly after seeing your interactions and opinions of this board I don't think very highly of you however I didn't say you were racist. While lacking empathy makes you a shitty human being it doesn't shake out the same as being racist. More misguided That's no problem, because I don't have a clue who you are. I don't remember interacting with you at all before. So no biggie there. I would say that you are the one excusing behavior and glossing over the bigger issues in exchange for the less prevalent issues. I'd call that misguided. Do I have empathy for Mr Gray. Absolutely. 100%. I feel horrible that he is dead, and if it was preventable (which I can't see any reason it wouldn't have been) while still arresting him, then absolutely the cops involved MUST be held accountable for his death. The riots taking place in Baltimore that you want to justify because of the way in which Mr Gray died is what mystifies me. There is no justification. So while I have all the empathy in the world for Mr. Gray, I have none for the protesters. And not surprisingly after reading this thread, you like some other well known deflectors, avoided the real issue of my post. Since you feel some justification for the rioting, or at least a great more outrage over Mr Grays death than the riots, where is your same level of outrage on a daily basis for all the numerous deaths that take place that aren't caused by Cops. Because those numbers and that loss of life is staggering and appalling. JUST as outrageous as Mr Gray's death. It is hypocritical to be outraged over one and not the other. I, myself, can be outraged at all of it. You seem to only want to focus on one person rather than thousands. I am deflecting? Haha that's fucking rich. I haven't deviated from what my point is. I didn't say the rioting was justified just as I also didn't say that black men killing black men is something to turn a blind eye to. Show me where I said or implied those things. You can not. |
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Post by boxermom73 on Apr 28, 2015 22:39:08 GMT
I'm not "scooting" or whatever that is. Do you even know what happened that started all this? A man named Freddie Gray had his spine severed while in police custody and it wasn't the first time that someone was hurt or murdered by the Baltimore police. This fact is getting put aside while everyone focuses on the riots. Don't you understand that? Do you care at all? no, tonight I do not care. I care about the safety of those in the area and I care about the property damage. the people being affected by these riots are now the priority. The rioters took that away from Gray. And if you, or they, think for one minute that rioting is going to change a damn thing, you are misguided. It turns the sympathy away from the victim and turns anger and blame toward the rioters and by extention the race of those rioting. It doesn't help. It hurts. wow so because some black people in Baltimore loot it turns you against any black people ? Wow what about those who loot after major sports wins? Or the ones who rioted after that coach was fired? Should we hate people of thier "race" wow you really said a lot.... |
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jayfab
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Post by jayfab on Apr 28, 2015 22:54:24 GMT
Maybe reading this story might help peeps understand the frustration of the citizens people around the entire country feel. I believe this is happening thruought the country. This is just the tip of an iceberg. The Brutality of Police Culture in Baltimore
(adding I do not condone the violence, but I understand the hurt and anger) |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 23:06:45 GMT
Maybe reading this story might help peeps understand the frustration of the citizens people around the entire country feel. I believe this is happening thruought the country. This is just the tip of an iceberg. The Brutality of Police Culture in Baltimore
(adding I do not condone the violence, but I understand the hurt and anger) I don't know who you're addressing that to, but what article can I link to get you to understand that the people here do understand the frustration? |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 28, 2015 23:07:26 GMT
If he would have been innocent, had not taken off running from police when ordered to stop, he might still be here. He set his fate in motion. Police brutality is wrong, I'll state that first. Using fool-Ana's account of the incident for illustration (because no one knows yet exactly what happened) she claims that everyone should see crystal clearly and be out raged at the video of Mr. grays broken spice when the hand cuffed him and pulled him up from the ground. Tackling a person of suspect who is running from police is not police brutality. You don't see him being beaten or abused in the video that is supposed to outrage us, according to fool-Ana, you see police arresting a person who ran. He appears to stumble with his steps and drag his foot/feet, which MANY who are arrested fighting and resisting. His injury could have happened when he was "tackled" by police, again while he was ignoring orders to stop. I won't be surprised to hear that this is the case, a very sad and unfortunate accident and result of his trying to flee and police trying to detain him. (Accident similar to when this sort of injury happens in sports, football) I'm not ready to scream brutality yet about this one, however regardless of Mr. gray, what they are doing in Baltimore is just wrong, illegal and fool-Ana for you to try to rationalize it, compare it, reason it side by side and an eye for an eye is just idiotic. Did you state that first? because how your post reads to me is...If he were innocent he wouldn't have been running and he set his own death into motion by doing so. We live in the United States of America running doesn't make you guilty and even if he were guilty of a crime the punishment isn't DEATH. I totally agree Olan. The thing is that it's being assumed that he was murdered, that it was police brutality---when in reality it could be just a freak ACCIDENT of being tackled when he ran away from the police--which is NOT police brutality. |
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Post by papercrafteradvocate on Apr 28, 2015 23:13:27 GMT
^^^ so with that, you're saying the police (and their lack of training, whatever) are to blame for this? They are the root cause of people looting, ransacking, and destroying their own city?? How about 'people should do what's RIGHT and NOT break the law??' Maybe something about 'protesting peacefully is a better way to get your point across than destroying where you live?' Is any of that in there somewhere? Or is there no responsibility on the general public whatsoever to have decent morals and know right from wrong?? While not disagreeing with you, the police broke the law by murdering Mr. Gray and I don't see much outrage here about that. Are the police held to a different standard when it comes to breaking the law? See there you go again fool-Ana accusing the police of murder. And yes, you are proving again and again that police are being held to a different standard ---guilty officers are definitely guilty, let's disregard any other possibility because they are just so obviously guilty!!!! You hate police. |
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jayfab
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Post by jayfab on Apr 28, 2015 23:13:31 GMT
Maybe reading this story might help peeps understand the frustration of the citizens people around the entire country feel. I believe this is happening thruought the country. This is just the tip of an iceberg. The Brutality of Police Culture in Baltimore
(adding I do not condone the violence, but I understand the hurt and anger) I don't know who you're addressing that to, but what article can I link to get you to understand that the people here do understand the frustration? Thanks, but no, not everyone does. Sorry to upset you. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 23:25:32 GMT
I don't know who you're addressing that to, but what article can I link to get you to understand that the people here do understand the frustration? Thanks, but no, not everyone does. Sorry to upset you. I'm not upset, I don't know why you think I would be  , but I don't see a single post here that shows people do not understand the frustration. Perhaps if you could point it out I might understand where you're coming from? |
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jayfab
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Post by jayfab on Apr 28, 2015 23:41:26 GMT
How awful for the city of baltimore. Why destroy your city?? Productive members of that part of the city have worked for years to try to clean it up and redevelop it in an attempt to elicite pride in their community. Work that has now been set back decades. Gia LuPeaA - here's your example. |
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Post by foolana on Apr 28, 2015 23:42:04 GMT
While not disagreeing with you, the police broke the law by murdering Mr. Gray and I don't see much outrage here about that. Are the police held to a different standard when it comes to breaking the law? See there you go again fool-Ana accusing the police of murder. And yes, you are proving again and again that police are being held to a different standard ---guilty officers are definitely guilty, let's disregard any other possibility because they are just so obviously guilty!!!! You hate police. Making fun of my user name? Are you in third grade? Also, I don't hate police but I do hate idiots who act like you. |
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Post by foolana on Apr 28, 2015 23:50:59 GMT
Did you state that first? because how your post reads to me is...If he were innocent he wouldn't have been running and he set his own death into motion by doing so. We live in the United States of America running doesn't make you guilty and even if he were guilty of a crime the punishment isn't DEATH. I totally agree Olan. The thing is that it's being assumed that he was murdered, that it was police brutality---when in reality it could be just a freak ACCIDENT of being tackled when he ran away from the police--which is NOT police brutality. I don't know why I keep responding to you considering how you behave but riddle me this. If it was indeed an "accident" that occurred while he was in custody or being subdued, it would still be police brutality and a murder. If Mr. Gray did the same thing to an officer you'd be screaming for the death penalty.
Nice try, though.
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Post by boxermom73 on Apr 29, 2015 0:07:34 GMT
I can be absolutely outraged at police brutality regardless of race. Where my understanding and empathy begin to wane is not seeing the exact SAME level of outrage from the exact SAME people every time a violent crime is committed against a black person on a DAILY basis, statistically by members of their OWN race. The percentage of black deaths by cops doesn't come near to the percentage of black on black crime. Where is the rioting and looting on a daily basis to protest the senseless deaths of black men caused by black men or is it really code for "we only care when it is cop on black or white on black deaths" Black on black crime and police brutality are two separate issues. Liken it to saying hey "yall kill each other so why can't we" all while wearing a hood. That rhetoric is sooo nonsensical. Your empathy can't wane if it was nonexistent in the first place. THANK YOU !!! JONDA loves to beat that dead horse!! How do you KNOW there is nothing being done or attempted to do ...It's apples and oranges |
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Post by boxermom73 on Apr 29, 2015 0:18:59 GMT
Black on black crime and police brutality are two separate issues. Liken it to saying hey "yall kill each other so why can't we" all while wearing a hood. That rhetoric is sooo nonsensical. Your empathy can't wane if it was nonexistent in the first place. Please. No one is saying either is right. No where in my post is the concept of "ya'll kill each other so why can't we". I'm saying BOTH are EQUALLY wrong, yet only ONE gets YOU and others worked up to this level of concern. And if your last comment is a veiled attempt at calling me a racist, honey, think again. I'm currently seeing someone who is of mixed decent, and he is embarrassed by these thugs as well. I have a Latino friend who is embarrassed of the thugs he grew up with, so when he gets out of the Navy in a month, he's looking for a town where he can feel safe away from them. In fact, I would say only a small percentage of my friends and exes have been or are actually Caucasian. So take YOUR racism and shove it where the sun doesn't shine. haha all his "friends" are black so what? You always bring this up if you love the non white community so much and are so concerned why aren't YOU doing anything? I don't agree with the looting but every time something comes up about police brutality, a real issue, you go back to black on black crime.. There are a lot of people actually doing something about it or trying to make a change... Not just saying why is t anything being done? Just to deflect from the problem we are discussing now. saying your not racist because you have a " mixed friend or Latino friends" is just insulting and proves nothing. Why is your friend embarrassed? Is he looting? If not why does he feel embarrassment? Is he responsible for the actions of others because he is half black? That says a lot right there... |
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Post by foolana on Apr 29, 2015 0:19:36 GMT
Black on black crime and police brutality are two separate issues. Liken it to saying hey "yall kill each other so why can't we" all while wearing a hood. That rhetoric is sooo nonsensical. Your empathy can't wane if it was nonexistent in the first place. THANK YOU !!! JONDA loves to beat that dead horse!! How do you KNOW there is nothing being done or attempted to do ...It's apples and oranges Jonda is the self-appointed expert on everything. It must be exhausting to be so knowledgeable. |
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Post by shescrafty on Apr 29, 2015 0:21:32 GMT
so with all the drug charges against gray, I wonder how many deaths he has contributed to and how many families and homes he destroyed?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2015 0:23:23 GMT
so with all the drug charges against gray, I wonder how many deaths he has contributed to and how many families and homes he destroyed? And your point is? |
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Post by foolana on Apr 29, 2015 0:23:36 GMT
so with all the drug charges against gray, I wonder how many deaths he has contributed to and how many families and homes he destroyed? And if what you said is true he should have been arrested and tried for his supposed crimes. It was not the police's place in our society of laws and due process to have killed him in custody. You understand that, right? |
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Post by jonda1974 on Apr 29, 2015 0:27:26 GMT
Someone had posted an article from the Baltimore Sun, I was going to quote them, but can't find their post. Just wanted to say thank you for sharing that article. It did shed a lot of light on why there would be peaceful protests, and they would be warranted.
It doesn't appear as if the city is doing nothing, and it certainly looks as though there is a long way to go. For me I would like to see more statistics on the percentage of officers and percentage of arrests these cases represented. I also don't think the instances of off duty officers should have been included, as their crimes weren't committed as cops. But overall very informative.
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i don't care what color you are. if you perpetuate it, it means the same thing......a thug is a thug, is a thug.
, but I don't see a single post here that shows people do not understand the frustration. Perhaps if you could point it out I might understand where you're coming from?
