Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 23:23:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 14:54:57 GMT
I removed my post. Thanks
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freebird
Drama Llama
'cause I'm free as a bird now
Posts: 6,927
Jun 25, 2014 20:06:48 GMT
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Post by freebird on Jun 3, 2015 15:15:15 GMT
I think some of this is on you. Totally self imposed. I've reached a point in my life where if someone doesn't like me, the way I look, the size of my ass, the color of my hair, well then that's on them. I really just don't care. I think it's something that comes with time. It's very freeing!
ETA: None2pleased said to the affect that she didn't know why Caitlyn Jenner would want to be a woman because now you have to put up with all the woman stuff including being perfect, having perfect hair and makeup when you go out, and being cut down by other women... or something like that. Very very paraphrasing.
I don't think you should have removed your post none2pleased, you didn't say anything that every single woman hasn't felt in her life. I hope I didn't upset you (I tend to be quite blunt, especially online). If you feel that way, I think you should consider giving no fucks over anyone else's opinion of you (except maybe your S/O and your family). Be you. Not someone people want you to be. You know why? Because then we're all running around being big old fakefaces. Who wants to be friends with a big fakie?
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lesley
Drama Llama
My best friend Turriff, desperately missed.
Posts: 7,295
Location: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland
Jul 6, 2014 21:50:44 GMT
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Post by lesley on Jun 3, 2015 15:24:50 GMT
I'm the same as freebird, I don't give a shit what other people think of my weight, my hair, my clothes or my home. That's their problem, not mine. There's too much heartache in my life for such superficial things to upset me. And I must say, I don't judge my friends on these criteria either. Maybe you need to move in a different circle.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:23:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 15:28:00 GMT
I agree that most of this is on you. Who really give a rats patootie what other women are saying behind our backs? I don't know anyone who has ever made a comment about another womans shade of lipstick!
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Dalai Mama
Drama Llama
La Pea Boheme
Posts: 6,985
Jun 26, 2014 0:31:31 GMT
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Post by Dalai Mama on Jun 3, 2015 15:28:01 GMT
I think some of this is on you. Totally self imposed. I've reached a point in my life where if someone doesn't like me, the way I look, the size of my ass, the color of my hair, well then that's on them. I really just don't care. I think it's something that comes with time. It's very freeing! Yep
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stittsygirl
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,600
Location: In the leaves and rain.
Jun 25, 2014 19:57:33 GMT
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Post by stittsygirl on Jun 3, 2015 15:39:16 GMT
Jon Stewart addressed some of this on the Daily Show, and it was spot on imo.
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Post by Merge on Jun 3, 2015 16:02:06 GMT
You must run in a fancier circle than I do. Among my friends/work acquaintances, no one gives a crap what I have on or what I look like, as long as I'm decently covered.
I agree with your point about women being expected to do it all with a smile on our faces, though - work full time (and do it well) AND take primary responsibility for the home/family, school volunteerism, all logistics around kids' activities, etc. My DH is better than most because he does the laundry, but I get so tired of being the only one who seems able to keep up with orthodontist appointment times, extra-curricular requirements, vet appointments, the location of various household items, etc. And heaven forbid I ever have a bad day and lose my temper or snap at someone - at home or at work. That is simply not allowed, but when men do it people just roll their eyes and move on.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 23:23:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 16:04:05 GMT
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 3, 2015 16:09:30 GMT
I agree... Women (on the whole, in general) are judged more, and on many more factors (it seems sometimes), than men are on the whole. And women do it to each other, and about each other-- more than men? I don't know, but it sometimes seems that way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 23:23:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 16:13:08 GMT
Jon Stewart addressed some of this on the Daily Show, and it was spot on imo. ..
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Loydene
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,639
Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico
Jul 8, 2014 16:31:47 GMT
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Post by Loydene on Jun 3, 2015 16:20:29 GMT
Somehow I doubt that Jenner is going to have too much trouble with clothing, makeup hair, job performance. There is going to be a "reality show" that will address those issues for her and from which she will also derive a boat load of money, most likely. Not that I will watch it ... nothing to do with either the subject or the individual ... more that I'm just tired of the crap being made available as "entertainment"
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Post by jumperhop on Jun 3, 2015 16:23:39 GMT
I do get what you are saying. And feel like I am being judged if everything I am responsible for isn't perfect. And because my husband is in introvert I get excluded from every single party and date night my friends put together. It's hard. My Mother is the type that everything has to be perfect or she can't be at peace. Her yard, her house, Herself! I can't live like that, I love myself to much. I try and live my life worried more about disappointing myself then someone else. Jen
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 23:23:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 16:38:35 GMT
So are you saying you believe others are saying these things about you because you are saying it about them I attend work functions with my husband, is every woman there looking down her nose at me, are they thinner, taller, better dressed than me? Well probably but ya know what, I do not care. I'm far too busy having a good time, enjoying my husbands company and getting trollied on free booze.
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Post by papersilly on Jun 3, 2015 17:00:11 GMT
in the newly released promo for her show, Cait discusses a bit about the makeup and what women have to go through when it comes to that.
I don't think she wanted to become a woman primarily for the looks. I think emotionally and mentally, she felt like a woman and just wanted to start living those feelings. the makeup, for many women, is just a drudgery of being what some people expect of women. me, I don't care. eyeliner on and I'm out the door. sad but true.
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Post by Sassy Sabrina SWZ on Jun 3, 2015 17:16:17 GMT
Funny that you should mention Mrs. Cleaver, but this attitude seems right out of the 1950s and early 1960s. (I'm not saying it's your attitude, @none2pleased, but it's the attitude you claim is prevalent in your personal experience.) Bella Abzug and the early feminist movement fought against these stereotypes, and I thought they had almost passed away until I read this thread. But maybe it's a regional thing, or among some social classes or age groups, to have such expectations.
In my own experience, the standards these days are far more relaxed than what you're describing. Most women, at the office, at group meetings, at the grocery store or shopping mall, etc, are dressing for comfort and not for an audience. They might dress up more for religious services and social events or for meeting with important clients, but it's not their everyday norm. When I see a young girl dressed to the nines and teetering on ridiculously high heels, I feel only pity that she has been "taken in" by the fashion magazines.
I do think you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to be "perfect." I'm not saying you should dress like a slob, but most people really don't care so much whether your purse matches your shoes. Attending a business/social function is one of those exceptions I noted above (in your case, it's because you want to impress your DH's business associates). But I don't think you're being judged nearly as much as you think you are.
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~Susan~
Pearl Clutcher
You need to check your boobs, mine tried to kill me!!!
Posts: 3,259
Jul 6, 2014 17:25:32 GMT
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Post by ~Susan~ on Jun 3, 2015 17:17:29 GMT
I think some of this is on you. Totally self imposed. I've reached a point in my life where if someone doesn't like me, the way I look, the size of my ass, the color of my hair, well then that's on them. I really just don't care. I think it's something that comes with time. It's very freeing! AMEN
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Post by shannoots on Jun 3, 2015 17:34:59 GMT
I can see what you are saying, to a degree. When I was student teaching, we had a class discussion on self-esteem and we talked about expectations for girls. They all agreed that the expectations for girls/women were unrealistic. Even some of the boys chimed in and agreed. I think women are very judgmental of other women but it is a cycle. We are judgmental because there are unrealistic expectations (like how we should look, for example).
I used to care a lot about what other people thought about me. I have gotten over that, for the most part. There are still things that I care about- but they are more like if I'm a good mom, not my looks. I have tried to make an effort to compliment women more. Real, genuine compliments. I'm not just complimenting for the sake of it. It isn't always easy but I've been working on it. I think it's important to build each other up rather than tear them down.
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Post by gramasue on Jun 3, 2015 17:58:11 GMT
Jon Stewart addressed some of this on the Daily Show, and it was spot on imo. I just watched this and THIS is what I am getting at! Society cannot give someone a compliment without in turn tearing another woman down! Slut shaming! Lol I was going to watch the video, but when I clicked on the link, I got a message that said "Sorry, but this video is unavailable from your location. In case you can't give up your free healthcare and move to America, you can watch The Daily Show with Jon Stewart at Thecomedynetwork.ca Obviously geared toward Canadians. I didn't know whether to feel insulted or just laugh! But it is The Daily Show, so I'm laughing.
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Post by peano on Jun 3, 2015 18:04:17 GMT
I removed my post. Thanks For God's sake why? It sounds like this is one of the more interesting threads here lately, although now I'll never know.
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Post by gramasue on Jun 3, 2015 18:05:32 GMT
Oops! Had to step away from the computer for a few minutes before I posted above, came back and hit Post Quick Reply, and then discovered the original post gone. Probably a good thing, as this was starting to be a sh*t storm. I'm glad I hadn't commented on the original subject, but simply laughed at the message I got when I tried to see the link.
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Post by papersilly on Jun 3, 2015 18:06:07 GMT
I removed my post. Thanks why? it was an honest and interesting thought. of all the things that should be deleted on this board, your post was not one of them.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 23:23:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 18:13:38 GMT
Really? I don't see any storming shit! There was no need to delete anything @none2pleased, some women may feel exactly the way you do and relish a chance to share it.
ETA I did feel it was all a tad overly dramatic but it could have made a good discussion, we'll never know!
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Post by papersilly on Jun 3, 2015 19:46:45 GMT
I didn't see a sh*t storm brewing either.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jun 3, 2015 19:47:38 GMT
I can see what you are saying, to a degree. When I was student teaching, we had a class discussion on self-esteem and we talked about expectations for girls. They all agreed that the expectations for girls/women were unrealistic. Even some of the boys chimed in and agreed. I think women are very judgmental of other women but it is a cycle. We are judgmental because there are unrealistic expectations (like how we should look, for example). I used to care a lot about what other people thought about me. I have gotten over that, for the most part. There are still things that I care about- but they are more like if I'm a good mom, not my looks. I have tried to make an effort to compliment women more. Real, genuine compliments. I'm not just complimenting for the sake of it. It isn't always easy but I've been working on it. I think it's important to build each other up rather than tear them down. I didn't get to read the OP but I see this all the time. I remember listening to my mom and sister bash my sister's BFF because she shouldn't be wearing a bikini. It was sad and reminded me that so many women do this in some form or another. I have yet to hear my guy friends discussing some guy's looks or how he's dressed.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Oct 6, 2024 23:23:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 19:50:51 GMT
I'm sorry you deleted your posts, OP. I read them and have been thinking about the points you brought up while working on some other things here at home. I think you raised some very valid points.
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Post by jumperhop on Jun 3, 2015 20:46:53 GMT
Op sorry you felt that you had to delete the post. We have all been there. I was thinking how beautiful I would be perceived from the world if I had money for unlimited plastic surgery, stylists and a fabulous wardrobe,an assistant, a publicist, personal trainer, personal chef, full time housekeeperS etc........
We see someone we think is perfect.. But don't see the entourage she has to get her to that point! Even people that are not celebrities. My BFF growing up calls stores and asked them to open after hours and have 20 outfits for her to try on. This is so far from my reality. Jen
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Post by Woobster on Jun 3, 2015 22:16:20 GMT
I am a thirty something who has not had the experience of the OP (I read it before it was deleted). However, I am also not a mother. I think the "mommy wars" are very real in many circles, so I understand at least a part of what the OP was saying.
I routinely run around with my hair pulled back, no makeup, casual/workout clothes, etc. I also live in a very casual area where a lot of women do the same. If I'm going out to dinner or something like that, I put in some effort, but even then... I'm a simple girl.
It really is an interesting conversation, OP. I don't see a shit storm at all.
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Post by crimsoncat05 on Jun 3, 2015 22:37:30 GMT
I don't remember the OP word for word, but I saw it more as 'women in general' not anything specific. I am guessing, though, that if we all were truly honest with ourselves, we've all done it to some extent, haven't we?? (or maybe not, I don't know) Something as simple and seemingly innocent as 'ugh, what a horrible hairstyle' or 'that top doesn't look good on her' or something similar... even if we don't say them out loud, the thoughts are there, and we judge women on their attractiveness-- and it's all over the place in our society, so much so that maybe we don't even notice it any more.
Magazines tell us how we don't look good ("lose 5 lbs in 10 days") and what we can do to look younger (use this cream or that cream, use this makeup, don't use that color eyeshadow), more attractive, what kind of hairstyle is good / bad for someone with a round face / thin face / older / younger; what kind of clothes we should / should not wear at a 'certain' age, etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum.
The threads here talk about it, too-- the older woman who wore short shorts while riding her bicycle (gasp!), Michelle Obama wearing flip-flops (!), what Hilary Clinton or Barbara Bush looked like instead of what they DID in their positions, etc., what Kim Kardashian looks like, should wear, shouldn't wear, etc.
THAT is what I got out of the original post... not that she herself was judged, necessarily, but that it happens all over in today's society (or it seems so, at least in the US).
ETA: and this phenomenon doesn't seem to be nearly as prevalent for men as for women. (but then again, maybe it is and we women just don't pay attention to it??)
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lesley
Drama Llama
My best friend Turriff, desperately missed.
Posts: 7,295
Location: Scotland, Scotland, Scotland
Jul 6, 2014 21:50:44 GMT
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Post by lesley on Jun 3, 2015 22:42:25 GMT
I wish you hadn't deleted your post either OP. There was no shitstorm, just some people disagreeing with you, and suggesting you were possibly putting that kind of pressure on yourself. Come back and defend your views, don't just delete them!
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MorningPerson
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,543
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Jul 4, 2014 21:35:44 GMT
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Post by MorningPerson on Jun 3, 2015 22:49:15 GMT
So are you saying you believe others are saying these things about you because you are saying it about them I attend work functions with my husband, is every woman there looking down her nose at me, are they thinner, taller, better dressed than me? Well probably but ya know what, I do not care. I'm far too busy having a good time, enjoying my husbands company and getting trollied on free booze. I also go to a whole lot of work functions with my husband. Most of them I've come to enjoy every year, and I admit that there are a couple of events that are too "stuffy" for my tastes. I'm a very casual, down-to-earth person at heart, but I like to think that I clean up pretty well, and because I truly enjoy good conversation with others, I believe I can hold my own in these situations. I have to say that I honestly can't remember ever looking at another woman and judging her for how she looked. And (maybe naively?), I assume others are also not doing that to me. But you know what, if they are, I. DON'T. CARE. If you're the kind of woman who judges another by what she's wearing, how her makeup looks, etc., I don't wan't to get to know you and make room for you in my life. If you're judging me, or if you're making a judgmental comment to me about someone else, I can quickly and easily decide to move on. And I do.
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