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Pearl Clutcher
Not my circus, not my monkeys ~refugee pea #59
Posts: 3,149
Jun 25, 2014 19:51:11 GMT
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Jun 4, 2015 21:42:29 GMT
Post by back to *pea*ality on Jun 4, 2015 21:42:29 GMT
I think the vendetta/agenda stuff is nonsense too... Everything I read/heard said that the police involvement/investigation was before he turned 18... Mind you I'm so gobsmacked at all the levels of failure in this and there's so much talk happening I find it hard to keep it straight... It's bringing up anxiety when my case was going up, knowing it would be public record and only by the consideration of the media would my identity/right to privacy be protected... The smallest kindnesses of not having where I lived, my job, a description of me published meant so much... The parents failed those girls - I wish the media/police/officials who let their info out could have done better by them... Josh was born on March 3, 1988, official report made in 2006, when he was 18. A State Trooper was told in 2003, gave Josh a stern talking to, didn't file a report. Why is the focus on just Josh? If any of the VICTIMS were minors then for their protection the records should have been sealed. Edited to add: a story appeared in our local newspaper that a local man, his name withheld to protect the identity of his daughters, was convicted of rape and incest. Horrible. I doubt any consideration was given here to how this would effect the victims.
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Peamac
Pearl Clutcher
Refupea # 418
Posts: 4,229
Jun 26, 2014 0:09:18 GMT
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Post by Peamac on Jun 4, 2015 22:07:19 GMT
He was 18 when the investigation was conducted. ETA: It is not clear, legally, whether or not the police should have complied with the FOIA in this case. There are arguments on both sides and no one seems entirely sure. But, even if they released it erroneously, they released it in response to a FOIA request and multiple officials signed off on the release. Presumably, they believed they were complying with the law. It's ludicrous for the Duggars to assert that this was some kind of vendetta against them. I think the vendetta/agenda stuff is nonsense too... Everything I read/heard said that the police involvement/investigation was before he turned 18... Mind you I'm so gobsmacked at all the levels of failure in this and there's so much talk happening I find it hard to keep it straight... It's bringing up anxiety when my case was going up, knowing it would be public record and only by the consideration of the media would my identity/right to privacy be protected... The smallest kindnesses of not having where I lived, my job, a description of me published meant so much... The parents failed those girls - I wish the media/police/officials who let their info out could have done better by them... JimBob said last night that they were told by the police/sheriff/authorities at the time that the info would not be able to be released. If a police officer who deals with this stuff often had told me that, I'd assume they were telling me the truth. That's why they were surprised that it came out. Either the authorities were mistaken/lied about it at the time, or someone messed up royally to let the information out a few weeks ago. I have no idea about the law, I just know what JimBob said last night during the interview. I really don't think they would have had a tv show if they were told the truth, that the information could be released at some time in the future.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 17:29:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2015 22:27:26 GMT
There is no reason that the media had to release that the victims were his sisters. None at all. What he did, and what his parents did, was terrible enough, regardless of who the victims were. But now the girls have the media at THEIR doors, and in THEIR faces, having public conversations about what happened to THEIR bodies, and dragging THEM through this again, against their will and likely without first notifying them, because someone wanted to break a story. I think it's disgusting.
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Post by penny on Jun 4, 2015 23:52:05 GMT
I think the vendetta/agenda stuff is nonsense too... Everything I read/heard said that the police involvement/investigation was before he turned 18... Mind you I'm so gobsmacked at all the levels of failure in this and there's so much talk happening I find it hard to keep it straight... It's bringing up anxiety when my case was going up, knowing it would be public record and only by the consideration of the media would my identity/right to privacy be protected... The smallest kindnesses of not having where I lived, my job, a description of me published meant so much... The parents failed those girls - I wish the media/police/officials who let their info out could have done better by them... Josh was born on March 3, 1988, official report made in 2006, when he was 18. A State Trooper was told in 2003, gave Josh a stern talking to, didn't file a report. Thanks... I was thinking of the 2003/Trooper date...
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Jun 4, 2015 23:56:54 GMT
Post by annabella on Jun 4, 2015 23:56:54 GMT
What's up with Michelle's high pitched voice? It's the same as those women in the FLDS cult who all have the same voice.
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Jun 4, 2015 23:57:52 GMT
Post by kelbel827 on Jun 4, 2015 23:57:52 GMT
UGh...I want to vomit. Just watching it now. might have to quit.
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Post by foolana on Jun 4, 2015 23:58:16 GMT
There is no reason that the media had to release that the victims were his sisters. None at all. What he did, and what his parents did, was terrible enough, regardless of who the victims were. But now the girls have the media at THEIR doors, and in THEIR faces, having public conversations about what happened to THEIR bodies, and dragging THEM through this again, against their will and likely without first notifying them, because someone wanted to break a story. I think it's disgusting. Saying that the media is the disgusting element in this situation is nothing more than ridiculous distraction. The REAL disgusting people in this terrible situation is the perpetrator of the sexual crimes (Josh) and the two enablers (Jim Bob and Michelle) who allowed him to get away with it. Don't blame the media for reporting the crimes committed by these three horrible people. What nonsense!
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Post by Belia on Jun 5, 2015 0:16:04 GMT
JimBob said last night that they were told by the police/sheriff/authorities at the time that the info would not be able to be released... I have no idea about the law, I just know what JimBob said last night during the interview. Oh, well, if Jim Bob said he was told that it would be confidential, then it MUST be true. After all, he's proven himself to be such a paragon of virtue and good judgement. And, it's not like he has any reason to lie, try to obscure the truth, or paint himself in the best light possible. Oh no, not at all.
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Post by kelbel827 on Jun 5, 2015 0:29:36 GMT
Annabella, she's never had to yell at her kids cause the other kids take care of them. She's too busy doing Jim Bob to even know if her kids are misbehaving. She always sounds like she's sedated to me
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Post by birukitty on Jun 5, 2015 0:39:53 GMT
Standing ovation Belia and for that video of Judge Judy I tried to watch the interview last night hoping that Megan Kelly would be tough (as some of the Peas said she would be), but I could only make it to the 15 minute mark. By then Jim Bob had claimed that although the girls had been "touched" through their clothes while they slept none of them even realized it and he and Michelle had to tell them it happened. "Bullshit"! I yelled at the TV as loud as I could. First of all none of the girls woke up after being molested through their clothes while sleeping? I don't know about you, but if someone touches me when I'm asleep I wake up fast. And by the way, if as he claims, none of the girls even knew it, why bother telling them at all? Liar, liar, liar. And Megan Kelly? What an utter disappointment! She was so far on their side she might as well have been a Dugger herself! By the time Jim Bob got to the part where he was talking about discussing their "problem" with their friends "other Christian families and how many of them had had the same problem I turned my TV off in disgust. I couldn't take anymore. Sounds like reading through this thread I did it just in time. I think this coming to light while tragic for the girls who were his victims, needed to happen because as hard as it is the truth needs to be revealed. We've talked about the averages of repeat offenders of paedophiles who don't get the therapy they so desperately need when they start offending as teens and I've forgotten that number-maybe someone here remembers? But I think it was quite high. We here on this board realize 2 months of physical work and praying to Jesus and asking for forgiveness does not equal the type of therapy that was and is still needed, so the chances of Josh continuing to sexually abuse children is quite high. What this coming to light now does is shine the light on his own children, and on the children that are in the Dugger family that are under the age of 18. There are still many little ones in that family. Hopefully the Duggers won't be able to just keep everything in the dark anymore. That's my hope. Of course first and foremost is my concern for his victims-the 5 girls he molested. I hope more than anything that they will be able to finally get the proper professional counselling that they need and deserve. Debbie in MD.
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Post by scrapmaven on Jun 5, 2015 0:46:30 GMT
Was it my imagination or did I hear Michelle say something under her breath in what I thought was a hateful tone about "the lesbian agenda"? Wanna preach forgiveness and spew venom at the same time? I don't think so!
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Jun 5, 2015 1:40:52 GMT
Post by kelbel827 on Jun 5, 2015 1:40:52 GMT
I didn't make it through 15 minutes. I didn't think that Megan Kelly was tough at all. I felt like she was on their side, not a neutral party.
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Jun 5, 2015 1:44:46 GMT
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Post by jackie on Jun 5, 2015 1:44:46 GMT
It did sound like "lesbian agenda" but that's not what she said. She said "must be an agenda". The way she mumbled or slurred it together made it sound like something else.
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Jun 5, 2015 1:50:22 GMT
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Post by momof3pits on Jun 5, 2015 1:50:22 GMT
It did sound like "lesbian agenda" but that's not what she said. She said "must be an agenda". The way she mumbled or slurred it together made it sound like something else. I agree. I heard lesbian agenda at first and couldn't believe it so rewound. She said must be an agenda but the way she slurred it combined with JB talking at the same time made it sound like lesbian.
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 17:29:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 3:01:53 GMT
There is no reason that the media had to release that the victims were his sisters. None at all. What he did, and what his parents did, was terrible enough, regardless of who the victims were. But now the girls have the media at THEIR doors, and in THEIR faces, having public conversations about what happened to THEIR bodies, and dragging THEM through this again, against their will and likely without first notifying them, because someone wanted to break a story. I think it's disgusting. Saying that the media is the disgusting element in this situation is nothing more than ridiculous distraction. The REAL disgusting people in this terrible situation is the perpetrator of the sexual crimes (Josh) and the two enablers (Jim Bob and Michelle) who allowed him to get away with it. Don't blame the media for reporting the crimes committed by these three horrible people. What nonsense!
Then perhaps you should go back and re-read what I wrote because I didn't actually say that. In both of my comments on this thread, I universally denounced what all 3 perpetrators did, without exception or excuse. I didn't say I found fault with the reporting of the crime. I also never claimed that what the media has done is worse or whatever it is you're trying to twist my words to say. However, the media loses its right to be sanctimonious when they victimize the girls all over again. My issue is with the fact that the victims' identities were reported, without their knowledge or consent. This isn't about the victims' rights and they need to stop masquerading like it is. If it was, they would have handled this differently. This is about making a buck and creating a hot topic. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Keep the perpetrators accountable all you like, but in my opinion, the media had no right to publish the victims' identities and in that way, they have ALSO mistreated the girls.
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Post by foolana on Jun 5, 2015 14:05:11 GMT
Saying that the media is the disgusting element in this situation is nothing more than ridiculous distraction. The REAL disgusting people in this terrible situation is the perpetrator of the sexual crimes (Josh) and the two enablers (Jim Bob and Michelle) who allowed him to get away with it. Don't blame the media for reporting the crimes committed by these three horrible people. What nonsense!
Then perhaps you should go back and re-read what I wrote because I didn't actually say that. In both of my comments on this thread, I universally denounced what all 3 perpetrators did, without exception or excuse. I didn't say I found fault with the reporting of the crime. I also never claimed that what the media has done is worse or whatever it is you're trying to twist my words to say. However, the media loses its right to be sanctimonious when they victimize the girls all over again. My issue is with the fact that the victims' identities were reported, without their knowledge or consent. This isn't about the victims' rights and they need to stop masquerading like it is. If it was, they would have handled this differently. This is about making a buck and creating a hot topic. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Keep the perpetrators accountable all you like, but in my opinion, the media had no right to publish the victims' identities and in that way, they have ALSO mistreated the girls. The records were redacted, no names were used and pronouns were adjusted. I have no problem when criminals, especially sexual predators, are revealed in the media. Perhaps if the Duggars had handled the situation better and put Josh forward to be investigated by the authorities instead of their "christian counseling" nonsense, the matter would have been dealt with through the system and the records would have been sealed. Don't blame the media for the victimization of the girls; Josh, Michelle and Jim Bob did that. Putting the two oldest in front of cameras is just more of the disgusting antics the Duggars have been reveling in since this information come out. I'm sorry but I just don't think the media is to blame here. I hope something is done to protect Josh's children and any nieces he has access to.
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Post by jumperhop on Jun 5, 2015 14:52:06 GMT
The girls are feeling victimized because of the media. Yet the Media didn't come out with any names. The girls put their own names out there. My heart goes out to them. They are still under their dad's control. jen
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Post by momof3pits on Jun 5, 2015 14:56:46 GMT
The girls are feeling victimized because of the media. Yet the Media didn't come out with any names. The girls put their own names out there. My heart goes out to them. They are still under their dad's control. jen I think you are exactly right. Still under dads control. I want to know how their husbands feel about all this. Pretty sure mine would be removing his family from those idiots if we were in that situation. Although I'm pretty sure JB has mind control over Ben too, so poor jessa is really stuck.
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Post by Regina Phalange on Jun 5, 2015 17:01:44 GMT
The girls are feeling victimized because of the media. Yet the Media didn't come out with any names. The girls put their own names out there. My heart goes out to them. They are still under their dad's control. jen I think you are exactly right. Still under dads control. I want to know how their husbands feel about all this. Pretty sure mine would be removing his family from those idiots if we were in that situation. Although I'm pretty sure JB has mind control over Ben too, so poor jessa is really stuck. Their husbands are what, 19 and 24? From the same sort of upbringing? Their husbands are still children, IMO. (Speaking from an emotional/maturity perspective, not chronological or legal perspective)
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Deleted
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Oct 6, 2024 17:29:09 GMT
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Jun 5, 2015 18:00:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2015 18:00:59 GMT
The girls are feeling victimized because of the media. Yet the Media didn't come out with any names. The girls put their own names out there. My heart goes out to them. They are still under their dad's control. jen The way I understand things, the report had the ages and ADDRESSES of the victims (names crossed out). Anyone that follows the show (or looked up biographies of the girls online) can figure things out. We know that his sisters living at the same address at the time of the victim interviews were Janna (25), Jill (24) , Jessa (22) , Jinger (21), and Joy (17). We also know a victim, currently under 18 went to court to have the records closed/destroyed or whatever it was... The girls did not need to "come out with any names".... It was very easy to figure out for the most part who the exact victims are. Yes that is unfortunate but sadly the case in most of these cases since the majority of the time this happens to relatives.
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Jun 5, 2015 18:08:32 GMT
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Post by momof3pits on Jun 5, 2015 18:08:32 GMT
I think you are exactly right. Still under dads control. I want to know how their husbands feel about all this. Pretty sure mine would be removing his family from those idiots if we were in that situation. Although I'm pretty sure JB has mind control over Ben too, so poor jessa is really stuck. Their husbands are what, 19 and 24? From the same sort of upbringing? Their husbands are still children, IMO. (Speaking from an emotional/maturity perspective, not chronological or legal perspective) I think Derrick is religious and he did the mission trip, but I don't think he has the same background fundy idiocy that she does. He also got his own job with his own degree. He should move them out of JB's house so they can make their own life.
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Jun 5, 2015 20:25:36 GMT
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Post by jumperhop on Jun 5, 2015 20:25:36 GMT
The girls are feeling victimized because of the media. Yet the Media didn't come out with any names. The girls put their own names out there. My heart goes out to them. They are still under their dad's control. jen The way I understand things, the report had the ages and ADDRESSES of the victims (names crossed out). Anyone that follows the show (or looked up biographies of the girls online) can figure things out. We know that his sisters living at the same address at the time of the victim interviews were Janna (25), Jill (24) , Jessa (22) , Jinger (21), and Joy (17). We also know a victim, currently under 18 went to court to have the records closed/destroyed or whatever it was... The girls did not need to "come out with any names".... It was very easy to figure out for the most part who the exact victims are. Yeah, your right about that. I wonder coming out and actually saying I was one of the victims, was a request from their Father to tell the media "see there is nothing wrong with us, Josh didn't hurt us." jen
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Post by foolana on Jun 5, 2015 20:30:18 GMT
The girls are feeling victimized because of the media. Yet the Media didn't come out with any names. The girls put their own names out there. My heart goes out to them. They are still under their dad's control. jen The way I understand things, the report had the ages and ADDRESSES of the victims (names crossed out). Anyone that follows the show (or looked up biographies of the girls online) can figure things out. We know that his sisters living at the same address at the time of the victim interviews were Janna (25), Jill (24) , Jessa (22) , Jinger (21), and Joy (17). We also know a victim, currently under 18 went to court to have the records closed/destroyed or whatever it was... The girls did not need to "come out with any names".... It was very easy to figure out for the most part who the exact victims are. If the parents hadn't had a reality show none of us would know who any of these people are. By choosing to be in the public eye after the molestation took place, Jim Bob and Michelle created the situation with the media. I just don't understand blaming the media for this.
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Post by stampbooker on Jun 5, 2015 21:17:15 GMT
The way I understand things, the report had the ages and ADDRESSES of the victims (names crossed out). Anyone that follows the show (or looked up biographies of the girls online) can figure things out. We know that his sisters living at the same address at the time of the victim interviews were Janna (25), Jill (24) , Jessa (22) , Jinger (21), and Joy (17). We also know a victim, currently under 18 went to court to have the records closed/destroyed or whatever it was... The girls did not need to "come out with any names".... It was very easy to figure out for the most part who the exact victims are. Yeah, your right about that. I wonder coming out and actually saying I was one of the victims, was a request from their Father to tell the media "see there is nothing wrong with us, Josh didn't hurt us." jen The girls definitely did not put their own names out there, the police report pretty much identified them. Maybe it wasn't a request from their dad. Maybe they are doing the interview because they want people to know that they are fine and that they forgave their brother and put the issue behind them years ago. It is a shame that people refuse to believe them and want them to feel like victims. Julie
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Post by birukitty on Jun 5, 2015 22:31:03 GMT
You know what's really ironic? If Jim Bob and Michelle hadn't waited so long to take Josh to the police station to report this (they didn't do this until he was 18) the records would have been sealed. Because they hid it, waited and waited and let the abuse happen over and over again by the time they finally took Josh there he was legally an adult and therefore the records legally weren't sealed. Once again Jim Bob and Michelle have only themselves to blame. All of this fall clearly on the shoulders of Jim Bob, Michelle and yes Josh completely and utterly. No one else!
I read yesterday that if Jim Bob and MIchelle had taken Josh to the correct authorities (not their friendly paedophile Sheriff who never filed the report) when Josh first started molesting his sisters after the first few instances when they'd left him in the home (like say after the first 3 times), they could have received 6 years in prison each for failure to protect their daughters. But because they waited so long ( 3 years, after the statute of limitations ran out) nothing ever happened to them, not to mention that obviously the report was never filed.
If anything comes out of this it is my hope that we get rid of that ridiculously short statute of limitations on child sexual abuse. There should be no statute of limitations in my mind. None.
Debbie in MD.
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Jun 5, 2015 23:38:24 GMT
Post by jumperhop on Jun 5, 2015 23:38:24 GMT
Yeah, your right about that. I wonder coming out and actually saying I was one of the victims, was a request from their Father to tell the media "see there is nothing wrong with us, Josh didn't hurt us." jen The girls definitely did not put their own names out there, the police report pretty much identified them. Maybe it wasn't a request from their dad. Maybe they are doing the interview because they want people to know that they are fine and that they forgave their brother and put the issue behind them years ago. It is a shame that people refuse to believe them and want them to feel like victims. Julie I see what you are saying, we are assuming how the girls feel based on our thoughts on Sexual assault. But remember our opinions on sexual abuse being a horrific experience are valid.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 6, 2015 19:14:59 GMT
Yeah, your right about that. I wonder coming out and actually saying I was one of the victims, was a request from their Father to tell the media "see there is nothing wrong with us, Josh didn't hurt us." jen The girls definitely did not put their own names out there, the police report pretty much identified them. Maybe it wasn't a request from their dad. Maybe they are doing the interview because they want people to know that they are fine and that they forgave their brother and put the issue behind them years ago. It is a shame that people refuse to believe them and want them to feel like victims. Julie This. A boy touched his sisters inappropriately. It actually is possible to touch someone and not wake them. It is possible to touch them once and not do it again, and it is definitely possible to touch someone and not rape them. I have read many pages of these threads here, and there is no distinction being made between what may be a curious, gentle poke light enough not to awaken someone and violent repeated assault by someone living under the same roof. Imagine what these girls are going through now if their then-still-a-boy brother touched them without their knowledge yet did suffer consequences because of his own conscientious choice to tell the people who would be most disappointed in him. What if these girls are telling the truth and this was something multiple people were aware of and helped them through, so this truly was something they had lived through and moved beyond? What a nightmare to see themselves portrayed as incest victims just as they are beginning their lives as adult women with brand new families! It is possible. Whatever Josh did as a boy, who has come forward to even suggest his behavior was repeated later? Someone very close to me was raped by a parent's live-in. The parent did hard time for allowing it to happen and the ripples throughout the family have been enormous. This doesn't seem remotely like the same situation to me, and I can't imagine the damage to this now grown and starting a new family victim I know if her/his name became headline news. Those sisters did not deserve this newest attack any more than they deserved being touched/fondled/molested by their brother. Reality TV is a strange thing. I've never understood the desire to live in a fishbowl like that.
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