lindas
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,151
Jun 26, 2014 5:46:37 GMT
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Post by lindas on Jun 25, 2015 15:50:24 GMT
For the record; Word Origin and History for white trash Expand n. 1831, originally Southern U.S. black slang. The slaves themselves entertain the very highest contempt for white servants, whom they designate as 'poor white trash.' [Fanny Kemble, journal, Jan. 6, 1833] And from Wikipedia; Black people use the term as an attack against whites.[18][19] Use of "White trash" epithets has been extensively reported in African-American culture.[20] Black authors have noted that blacks, when taunted by whites as "niggers," taunted back, calling them "white trash."[19] Black parents taught their children that poor whites were "white trash".[21] The epithet appears in black folklore.[22] As an example, slaves (when out of earshot of whites) would refer to harsh slave owners as a "low down" man, "lower than poor white trash," "a brute, really."[23] The term white trash dates back not to the 1950s but to the 1820s. It arises not in Mississippi or Alabama, but in and around Baltimore, Maryland. And best guess is that it was invented not by whites, but by African Americans. As a term of abuse, white trash was used by blacks--both free and enslaved--to disparage local poor whites. Thank you. This is actually very interesting, even if it makes me wrong about the origins of the term. What's most interesting to me is that it's still a racist term, just racist against white people, not black. I still don't think people today mean anything racist by it, but I also still think its origins are racist and I will continue to avoid using it. It probably was meant to be racist at the time but I don't think it's use now is meant to racist just derogatory and degrading.
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Post by lucyg on Jun 25, 2015 16:24:20 GMT
Thank you. This is actually very interesting, even if it makes me wrong about the origins of the term. What's most interesting to me is that it's still a racist term, just racist against white people, not black. I still don't think people today mean anything racist by it, but I also still think its origins are racist and I will continue to avoid using it. aw, I love this place Are you making fun of me or am I just paranoid?
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Post by jeremysgirl on Jun 25, 2015 17:04:46 GMT
I don't use either term because I feel like white trash is just plain derogatory and I think if you want to call yourself a redneck, that's fine, but I won't be doing it because I feel like people would think I was looking down on them. But my brother proudly called himself a redneck until the day he died. And using the definition some have posted here, he probably was. He was definitely a good, old country boy.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 25, 2015 17:31:56 GMT
So I *can* disagree!!! I always found it a racist slur against specific white people, so this makes sense. However.... I've almost always seen or heard the term used by white people against other white people, so pointing out the race felt particularly obnoxious. Used in this context, I do think it takes on the overtones of being considered even less worthy than someone of color. ****My sincerest apologies to everyone for implying that people of color have less worth. That is not my belief and it is not an insult I have ever used. I'm confused by your statement because you said this on the post above to me: Maybe in some parts of the country this is more true than other places, but I think it's time you realize that you are insulting a great many people who are not racist with that association.
Maybe we are saying the same thing and I am not being clear. I think when people use the word red-neck they are not only using the term to refer to someone who is uneducated and unsophisticated but also someone who is intolerant of others. Which is why I think of the term racist when I hear red-neck. I would never and do not ever use the word. I hate ugly labels and avoid them. But when I picture someone who calls themselves a red neck, I think of intolerant, ignorant and along with that is often racist. There are teenage boys/young men across the country who consider themselves rednecks and who are racists. Many other people consider themselves as rednecks and they are not racist, nor are they all uneducated. The term covers a wider range of people than you are allowing. In my neck of the woods, it isn't an insult to be called a redneck. It is an insult to be called a racist.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 25, 2015 18:00:45 GMT
Are you making fun of me or am I just paranoid? just paranoid. I love that instead of arguing the origin, you conceded, but maintained your stance in a polite fashion.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 25, 2015 18:17:50 GMT
I don't use either term because I feel like white trash is just plain derogatory and I think if you want to call yourself a redneck, that's fine, but I won't be doing it because I feel like people would think I was looking down on them. But my brother proudly called himself a redneck until the day he died. And using the definition some have posted here, he probably was. He was definitely a good, old country boy. I think it's wise not to use terms you are uncomfortable with, especially ones that can be misunderstood. Bless your heart is one I've learned the hard way loses the nuances of sincere concern you can show someone in person when it's said here. Regional jargon doesn't always translate well nationally or internationally.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 25, 2015 18:21:17 GMT
Thank you. This is actually very interesting, even if it makes me wrong about the origins of the term. What's most interesting to me is that it's still a racist term, just racist against white people, not black. I still don't think people today mean anything racist by it, but I also still think its origins are racist and I will continue to avoid using it. It probably was meant to be racist at the time but I don't think it's use now is meant to racist just derogatory and degrading. Not racist now? How many people of color do you hear being called poor white trash? The term is selectively used for people of one race.
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jun 25, 2015 21:28:24 GMT
I'm confused by your statement because you said this on the post above to me: Maybe in some parts of the country this is more true than other places, but I think it's time you realize that you are insulting a great many people who are not racist with that association.
Maybe we are saying the same thing and I am not being clear. I think when people use the word red-neck they are not only using the term to refer to someone who is uneducated and unsophisticated but also someone who is intolerant of others. Which is why I think of the term racist when I hear red-neck. I would never and do not ever use the word. I hate ugly labels and avoid them. But when I picture someone who calls themselves a red neck, I think of intolerant, ignorant and along with that is often racist. There are teenage boys/young men across the country who consider themselves rednecks and who are racists. Many other people consider themselves as rednecks and they are not racist, nor are they all uneducated. The term covers a wider range of people than you are allowing. In my neck of the woods, it isn't an insult to be called a redneck. It is an insult to be called a racist. We will have to agree to disagree.. but I think the origin and the original meaning of the word are more important than any one person's opinion. classroom.synonym.com/origin-word-redneck-11667.htmlThe Meaning of “Redneck” Today Historian Patrick Huber, an expert on Southern U.S. culture, describes the term “redneck” as a “slur” referring to “a poor white man of the American South, and particularly one who holds conservative, reactionary or racist views.” Ken Bagwell, a writer for the Asheville Tribune says that “rednecks” are “white, and the vast majority of them are working class (blue-collar). Some are college degreed, some are not.” Even the dictionary has very little flattering to say. Merriam-Webster defines “redneck” as “a white person who lives in a small town or in the country especially in the southern U.S., who typically has a working-class job, and who is seen by others as being uneducated and having opinions and attitudes that are offensive.”
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 25, 2015 22:08:02 GMT
There are teenage boys/young men across the country who consider themselves rednecks and who are racists. Many other people consider themselves as rednecks and they are not racist, nor are they all uneducated. The term covers a wider range of people than you are allowing. In my neck of the woods, it isn't an insult to be called a redneck. It is an insult to be called a racist. We will have to agree to disagree.. but I think the origin and the original meaning of the word are more important than any one person's opinion. classroom.synonym.com/origin-word-redneck-11667.htmlThe Meaning of “Redneck” Today Historian Patrick Huber, an expert on Southern U.S. culture, describes the term “redneck” as a “slur” referring to “a poor white man of the American South, and particularly one who holds conservative, reactionary or racist views.” Ken Bagwell, a writer for the Asheville Tribune says that “rednecks” are “white, and the vast majority of them are working class (blue-collar). Some are college degreed, some are not.” Even the dictionary has very little flattering to say. Merriam-Webster defines “redneck” as “a white person who lives in a small town or in the country especially in the southern U.S., who typically has a working-class job, and who is seen by others as being uneducated and having opinions and attitudes that are offensive.” What's to disagree with? A dictionary? A writer? Or the many people, some of whom are on this very thread, that use this term to describe themselves and their loved ones? You may choose to close your eyes or stick your fingers in your ears, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a pretty common term many people who do not fit your stereotype self-identify with. Shades of 1984 going on here. "You will not refer to yourself as redneck. You have too much education. You are not male. You are not racist. The authorities have spoken."
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Post by lucyg on Jun 25, 2015 22:13:07 GMT
Are you making fun of me or am I just paranoid? just paranoid. I love that instead of arguing the origin, you conceded, but maintained your stance in a polite fashion. aww, that is sweet. In my family, they would call it "trying to get the last word in."
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Post by gmcwife1 on Jun 25, 2015 22:22:13 GMT
It probably was meant to be racist at the time but I don't think it's use now is meant to racist just derogatory and degrading. Not racist now? How many people of color do you hear being called poor white trash? The term is selectively used for people of one race. I agree. If it's not ok to call a Mexican person a wetback why is it ok to call a white person a redneck.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jun 25, 2015 22:33:11 GMT
I'm on my phone and couldn't find the date on the article. I wonder how old it is?
My sons have friends in our "upscale" suburb who self-identify as redneck because of the truck they drive, music taste, participation in the Ag program or Vet Med goals. Not all of these kids are white, and they use the term jokingly, but not as an insult.
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 26, 2015 4:24:46 GMT
Not racist now? How many people of color do you hear being called poor white trash? The term is selectively used for people of one race. I agree. If it's not ok to call a Mexican person a wetback why is it ok to call a white person a redneck. That's a good question. I think the only person I ever called a redneck was my late dh, because.... dundundun.... he had a red neck from being outside so much. He smiled the few times I said it to him, and he thought Jeff Foxworthy's skits were funny. If someone identifies with the term, I don't see anything wrong with calling them a redneck providing it isn't said as an insult. On a message board such as this, I think it's OK when there is a clear understanding between you and the person you are addressing that you are not insulting them and they are OK with the term. That's the exception, not the rule. The rule here on this board being more along the lines of expecting people to take it as insult.
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Post by freecharlie on Jun 26, 2015 4:26:42 GMT
Not racist now? How many people of color do you hear being called poor white trash? The term is selectively used for people of one race. I agree. If it's not ok to call a Mexican person a wetback why is it ok to call a white person a redneck. Do you have to be white to be a redneck?
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jun 26, 2015 12:41:40 GMT
We will have to agree to disagree.. but I think the origin and the original meaning of the word are more important than any one person's opinion. classroom.synonym.com/origin-word-redneck-11667.htmlThe Meaning of “Redneck” Today Historian Patrick Huber, an expert on Southern U.S. culture, describes the term “redneck” as a “slur” referring to “a poor white man of the American South, and particularly one who holds conservative, reactionary or racist views.” Ken Bagwell, a writer for the Asheville Tribune says that “rednecks” are “white, and the vast majority of them are working class (blue-collar). Some are college degreed, some are not.” Even the dictionary has very little flattering to say. Merriam-Webster defines “redneck” as “a white person who lives in a small town or in the country especially in the southern U.S., who typically has a working-class job, and who is seen by others as being uneducated and having opinions and attitudes that are offensive.” What's to disagree with? A dictionary? A writer? Or the many people, some of whom are on this very thread, that use this term to describe themselves and their loved ones? You may choose to close your eyes or stick your fingers in your ears, but it doesn't change the fact that this is a pretty common term many people who do not fit your stereotype self-identify with. Shades of 1984 going on here. "You will not refer to yourself as redneck. You have too much education. You are not male. You are not racist. The authorities have spoken." Okay.. let's not let the facts and the truth get in the way of your opinion!
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Post by ktdoesntscrap on Jun 26, 2015 12:42:48 GMT
I agree. If it's not ok to call a Mexican person a wetback why is it ok to call a white person a redneck. Do you have to be white to be a redneck? The Meaning of “Redneck” Today Historian Patrick Huber, an expert on Southern U.S. culture, describes the term “redneck” as a “slur” referring to “a poor white man of the American South, and particularly one who holds conservative, reactionary or racist views.” Ken Bagwell, a writer for the Asheville Tribune says that “rednecks” are “white, and the vast majority of them are working class (blue-collar). Some are college degreed, some are not.” Even the dictionary has very little flattering to say. Merriam-Webster defines “redneck” as “a white person who lives in a small town or in the country especially in the southern U.S., who typically has a working-class job, and who is seen by others as being uneducated and having opinions and attitudes that are offensive.”
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Post by leftturnonly on Jun 27, 2015 20:28:47 GMT
I agree. If it's not ok to call a Mexican person a wetback why is it ok to call a white person a redneck. Do you have to be white to be a redneck? No. Nor are you required to be male, 20 something, racist, sexist or stupid. Check out the cast of this season's Big Brother. Guess who the redneck is.
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RedSquirrelUK
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,732
Location: The UK's beautiful West Country
Aug 2, 2014 13:03:45 GMT
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Post by RedSquirrelUK on Jun 29, 2015 21:57:04 GMT
I'm finding out an awful lot of different definitions and understandings of "red-neck" and "white trash" and their levels of offensiveness. If I ever used either expression, I think I'll make sure I don't again. In fact, I'm starting to think I ought to remove all words of colour from my vocabulary. Coffee will be without milk, and sugar will be refined. Necks will be sunburned and rubbish will be bleached.
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Post by anonrefugee on Jun 29, 2015 22:23:59 GMT
I'm finding out an awful lot of different definitions and understandings of "red-neck" and "white trash" and their levels of offensiveness. If I ever used either expression, I think I'll make sure I don't again. In fact, I'm starting to think I ought to remove all words of colour from my vocabulary. Coffee will be without milk, and sugar will be refined. Necks will be sunburned and rubbish will be bleached. Oh yes. I wasn't familiar with the term High Yellow and had to look it up after an episode of Aquarius. I'll never hear Yellow Rose of Texas the same way.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 5, 2024 10:34:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2015 22:40:14 GMT
I'm finding out an awful lot of different definitions and understandings of "red-neck" and "white trash" and their levels of offensiveness. If I ever used either expression, I think I'll make sure I don't again. In fact, I'm starting to think I ought to remove all words of colour from my vocabulary. Coffee will be without milk, and sugar will be refined. Necks will be sunburned and rubbish will be bleached. Even bleach was a bad word not too long ago when they got in trouble for using it when the new emojis came out.
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