suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 4, 2015 15:27:22 GMT
I haven't seen this posted. As the mom of a son with ADHD and autism, this video has my stomach in knots. It's disgusting that a man his size would do this to a little boy. If he can't handle an eight year old, he needs to find a new job. The ACLU is suing, but if it were my child, you can bet your sweet bippy that I would sue myself. There's not much that gets me outraged, but this has me spitting nails! CNN Officer handcuffs Eight Year Old
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 4, 2015 15:31:56 GMT
Cuffs around his arms like that looks very painful. That was uncalled for. If he felt the need to restrain him, he could have used the zip-tie restraints.
I've been with boys that needed to be restrained, for their own safety and the others. So I'm not against restraints in general - just the placement of these.
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 8:19:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 15:33:05 GMT
I saw the video earlier today. I can't believe he was kept that way for 15 minutes! I also do feel for schools because there are strict rules about how to handle out of control kids. They have to be very careful. I feel like I've only heard one side of the story, but still seeing how he was handcuffed didn't seem right.
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Post by magentapea on Aug 4, 2015 15:33:24 GMT
So what would you have the officer do? He clearly states that the boy was swinging at him. I suspect it was done as a matter of keeping everyone safe. If he didn't restrain the boy and the boy hurt anyone, he would have been in trouble for not taking action. (I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just wondering what you think is a viable alternative).
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 8:19:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 15:36:18 GMT
So what would you have the officer do? He clearly states that the boy was swinging at him. I suspect it was done as a matter of keeping everyone safe. If he didn't restrain the boy and the boy hurt anyone, he would have been in trouble for not taking action. (I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just wondering what you think is a viable alternative). I'm not sure if you are asking me or the OP, but another poster mentioned zip ties. The placement of his arms behind his back is what concerns me. It would be nice to hear from the school district but I'm sure they have to be very careful when dealing with ongoing litigation.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 4, 2015 15:42:36 GMT
I want to share that sometimes, have no idea if this is the case here or not, a child is left restrained for a long period of time because his parent will not come to the school to get him. That happened at a local school. Child was swinging, destroying property, threatening and mildly hurting other students. He was restrained, in a hold, by a trained teacher until a school resource officer arrived. As soon as the boy was released, he ran and started destroying and threatening again. He was again restrained, but by the officer this time. I can only assume that it was with cuffs or ties. The mother was contacted and she said that during the day the child was the school's problem, not hers. Sadly, this is not unheard of. The school ended up contacting child services at which time the mother decided she could be bothered. The boy was restrained for the whole time because he was dangerous when released.
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Post by deshacrafts on Aug 4, 2015 15:49:57 GMT
So what would you have the officer do? He clearly states that the boy was swinging at him. I suspect it was done as a matter of keeping everyone safe. If he didn't restrain the boy and the boy hurt anyone, he would have been in trouble for not taking action. (I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just wondering what you think is a viable alternative). The officer is say a 200 lb man and this is a 70 lb child. I don't think it was necessary to handcuff him behind his back on his upper arms. That looks extremely painful. I just find it hard to believe that there wasn't some other alternative method of controlling the situation. But like someone else said we are only seeing one part of the story. I am wondering who took the video of this action and didn't do anything to relieve the child.
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Post by Kymberlee on Aug 4, 2015 15:58:35 GMT
I believe there is a little more to this story. I have seen some really out of control children, and sometimes restraining them is all you can do. If this resource officer doesn't have the training he needs to deal with a situation like this then that is a very bad move on the part of the school system.
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Post by Merge on Aug 4, 2015 16:02:50 GMT
Our district will not use restraints on elementary school students, even if they're violent and weigh as much as some adults. Lots of people have been injured and lots of property destroyed as a result. Personally, I think eventually there will be a lawsuit filed by a teacher or a parent of a student who was injured by a student who should have been restrained - or even by the parent of the violent student himself, if he injured himself during an outburst - but for now they're choosing to err on the side of not restraining.
The problem in cases like this is that FERPA prevents the school from saying anything at all to the public to explain or defend what happened. It's unfortunate when a student has to be restrained, but I think at some point everyone's safety is more important than some discomfort.
And also unfortunately, the "he's your problem during school hours" is all too common. Often parents are well-meaning, but completely overwhelmed by (and sometimes afraid of) their child's behaviors - particularly parents who lack the resources for private therapies, parents with a language barrier that makes it difficult for them to navigate our educational and healthcare systems, or parents with mental health or addiction issues of their own.
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Post by . on Aug 4, 2015 16:07:27 GMT
I have worked with special needs children in first grade that became so enraged that they became stronger than me. I don't understand the cuffs being placed that high though.Maybe they didn't have cuffs small enough??
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 4, 2015 16:54:45 GMT
The cop probably weighed 200 and the child 50-70 pounds. When my son was 8, I had no trouble controlling him when he'd go into one of his rages. I might have gotten kicked a time or two, but I was able to wrap my arms around him until he was done flailing. There is no way I'd put handcuffs or zip ties on him. I'm sorry, but if you can't handle an 8 year old, you (general you), best be finding another line of work.
When my son was in kindergarten, before he was verbal, he had the sweetest elderly lady as his aid. Because he would get frustrated trying to get his point across, he would pinch. And, not easy pinches either. She made arm covers out of an ironing board cover and covered her arms. She'd either sit behind him or have him on her lap, and he would calm down with her holding him.
My son is now 27, and still pinches. He weighs about 30 pounds more than I, and stands 5 inches taller than I do. When the power and cable go out, it's a full on fit. He still pinches, and hard! I just have have to be sure to grab his hands before he grabs me. So, if this 200 lb man can't handle an 8 year old, he needs to find something that he can do.
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Post by anonrefugee on Aug 4, 2015 16:59:26 GMT
I want to share that sometimes, have no idea if this is the case here or not, a child is left restrained for a long period of time because his parent will not come to the school to get him. That happened at a local school. Child was swinging, destroying property, threatening and mildly hurting other students. He was restrained, in a hold, by a trained teacher until a school resource officer arrived. As soon as the boy was released, he ran and started destroying and threatening again. He was again restrained, but by the officer this time. I can only assume that it was with cuffs or ties. The mother was contacted and she said that during the day the child was the school's problem, not hers. Sadly, this is not unheard of. The school ended up contacting child services at which time the mother decided she could be bothered. The boy was restrained for the whole time because he was dangerous when released. Thanks for reminder there can be more than one side to a story.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 4, 2015 17:02:36 GMT
I don't get the "if you can't handle him, get another job" bit. I just don't. OF COURSE a 200 lb man can handle an 8 year old child. You just may not like the way he does. If he can't use his size and strength to "handle" the kid, why is his size and strength part of the equation?
I'm pretty sure most adults can get a child under control by dominating him. The issue is getting him under control without anyone getting hurt, including the child.
Why should I have to put up with an 8 year old kicking me? I've had colleagues that were out of work for weeks because of injuries sustained from a student. One of the kid was 8 years old. Why should an aide have to spend her money and time to sew protective gear? Did you reimburse her for her supplies? Being an educator doesn't mean you are someone's punching bag. Teachers have the right to expect a safe environment.
And, this child in the video isn't YOUR child. Surely you understand that not all special needs children behave the same in all circumstances?
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 4, 2015 17:12:02 GMT
I want to share that sometimes, have no idea if this is the case here or not, a child is left restrained for a long period of time because his parent will not come to the school to get him. That happened at a local school. Child was swinging, destroying property, threatening and mildly hurting other students. He was restrained, in a hold, by a trained teacher until a school resource officer arrived. As soon as the boy was released, he ran and started destroying and threatening again. He was again restrained, but by the officer this time. I can only assume that it was with cuffs or ties. The mother was contacted and she said that during the day the child was the school's problem, not hers. Sadly, this is not unheard of. The school ended up contacting child services at which time the mother decided she could be bothered. The boy was restrained for the whole time because he was dangerous when released. The child should have been removed from the classroom so that other children are not hurt. Whether they took him to the hall, nurses office, or even outside until he had calmed. Sometimes a weighted blanket can be used. I applaud the teacher in this situation for being trained on how to handle an unruly child. Unfortunately, the majority of first responders have not been trained on how to handle these children/adults. In NYS, our local senator introduced a bill to compile a how-to book for first responders. This senator has two grandchildren with autism. The bill was approved, but the wheels of government move so slowly. It was approved 7-8 years ago, but has not even been started yet.
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Post by Dori~Mama~Bear on Aug 4, 2015 21:16:23 GMT
It doesn't matter what the kid has or what the kid did there is no reason that cop had to cuff him the way he did.
That is just cruel and abusive.
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Post by peano on Aug 4, 2015 21:23:42 GMT
I have no experience with out of control children in school, but I did work with out of control psych patients in a hospital. We used soft restraints for more fragile (elderly etc) patients. Why aren't these used rather than handcuffs or zip ties, which seem almost worse than the handcuffs?
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Post by Merge on Aug 4, 2015 21:46:00 GMT
I must be watching a different video than some of you are. They say right in the narration that the reason he's not cuffed around the wrists is because the cuffs are too big. He's obviously uncomfortable and upset, but he's not screaming in pain or being injured or even treated roughly. I see the cop getting down on his level and speaking calmly to him, reminding him of his choices. I really don't see the outrage, to be honest.
Those of you saying there's "no reason" to restrain a child like this have clearly never been punched, kicked or bitten by an enraged child with what seems like superhuman strength. You've never had thousands of dollars worth of damage done to classroom materials, many of which you purchased with your own money, and none of which are likely to be immediately replaced. You've never risked your job, teaching license and professional reputation putting your hands on a child to restrain him before he hurts himself or someone else. You've never chased a child a half mile down the road because when you took him out of the classroom to calm down, he bolted out the exterior door and took off.
It's a sad situation, but some kids have serious issues. Safety has to be the first priority.
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AnotherPea
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 4, 2015 21:48:41 GMT
Right, and not just the safety of that child but of all the other children in the classroom.
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Post by darkangel090260 on Aug 4, 2015 22:01:45 GMT
ok they do not make cuff in children size. his upper arm is about the same size as a small adult wrist.
Ok I am not going to be like for this and have my flame suit already to go.
If for any reason you special needs child, become violent for any reason, they should not be allowed back in school Just because they are special need does not give them the right to put other student/staff at risk. My child has just a much right as a special nee child to a education that is safe.
If my child defended himself again you special needs child outburst, you would be demanding we was expelled from school and mostly likely arrested.
I am sick of parent of special need keeping winning about everything. If you do not like the school system home school Please please home school.
Because of parent of special needs kid, kids will allergens (full school cut out food for one child.) then there are just the special snowflakes. I will not be sending my child to public school
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happymomma
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Posts: 4,078
Aug 6, 2014 23:57:56 GMT
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Post by happymomma on Aug 4, 2015 22:19:01 GMT
I must be watching a different video than some of you are. They say right in the narration that the reason he's not cuffed around the wrists is because the cuffs are too big. He's obviously uncomfortable and upset, but he's not screaming in pain or being injured or even treated roughly. I see the cop getting down on his level and speaking calmly to him, reminding him of his choices. I really don't see the outrage, to be honest. Those of you saying there's "no reason" to restrain a child like this have clearly never been punched, kicked or bitten by an enraged child with what seems like superhuman strength. You've never had thousands of dollars worth of damage done to classroom materials, many of which you purchased with your own money, and none of which are likely to be immediately replaced. You've never risked your job, teaching license and professional reputation putting your hands on a child to restrain him before he hurts himself or someone else. You've never chased a child a half mile down the road because when you took him out of the classroom to calm down, he bolted out the exterior door and took off. It's a sad situation, but some kids have serious issues. Safety has to be the first priority. I totally agree. My friend has a son who was out of control on many occasions in elementary school. He was in fact kicked out of a few schools and ended up in a 'special' charter school where half of the school were out of control kids. He hit a teacher with a snow shovel one time, overturned school desks on several occasions, ran away from the school on more than one occasion, etc. He was also a monster at home. He kicked me super hard one day because I told him to stop spraying his sister with the garden hose, as I was getting soaked too. My friend (who is now my ex-friend but for unrelated reasons) always got upset with the teachers when this crap happened! She wanted the teachers to 'give him hugs' when he 'got upset'. With the increasing number of special needs (or whatever is the right term here) kids in schools these days, I'm thinking that some padded wrist restraints should be kept on hand. Like the poster above, I know they are used in the mental health unit at the hospital I worked at. IMO a kid in a tantrum does need to be restrained, for everyone's safety, including their own. They look like this:
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Deleted
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Mar 29, 2024 8:19:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 22:45:59 GMT
Many departments do not allow zip ties...they are not as strong as one might think. Yes having your arms behind you back is painful. I'm not the officer, my husband said he would never do it, but it look liked the cuffs were loose. It wasn't done to be mean, it was done to keep everyone safe...including the boy. It would be great if training was done in regards to this, but every department does in-service diffrent. I'm not so much outraged on the cuffs, more on why this boy did not have companion or TA assigned to him. Forgive me if he did.
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Dani-Mani
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Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Aug 4, 2015 22:49:44 GMT
I think the school needs to look into NCI/CPI. We use it for out of control students and it works.
I'm fine with restraints but I absolutely do not support what they did.
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Post by Merge on Aug 4, 2015 23:11:08 GMT
I think the school needs to look into NCI/CPI. We use it for out of control students and it works. I'm fine with restraints but I absolutely do not support what they did. How do you know the restraint didn't happen after CPI first steps had already been followed?
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AnotherPea
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Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 4, 2015 23:15:50 GMT
Many departments do not allow zip ties...they are not as strong as one might think. Yes having your arms behind you back is painful. I'm not the officer, my husband said he would never do it, but it look liked the cuffs were loose. It wasn't done to be mean, it was done to keep everyone safe...including the boy. It would be great if training was done in regards to this, but every department does in-service diffrent. I'm not so much outraged on the cuffs, more on why this boy did not have companion or TA assigned to him. Forgive me if he did. Why would he need a TA? All I saw was that he has ADHD. If we assigned a 1:1 for every kid that has ADHD schools would have to build parking decks for the staff. About 1/5 of my class received accommodations for ADHD. about 1/5 had ADHD but their parents told me about it, since there was no documentation. I'm sure there were plenty that have it but I never knew.
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suzastampin
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 2,587
Jun 28, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
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Post by suzastampin on Aug 4, 2015 23:22:07 GMT
Why should I have to put up with an 8 year old kicking me? I've had colleagues that were out of work for weeks because of injuries sustained from a student. One of the kid was 8 years old. Why should an aide have to spend her money and time to sew protective gear? Did you reimburse her for her supplies? Being an educator doesn't mean you are someone's punching bag. Teachers have the right to expect a safe environment. And, this child in the video isn't YOUR child. Surely you understand that not all special needs children behave the same in all circumstances? I did give her gift cards every month just to say thanks for being so kind and caring. I absolutely do understand that not all special needs individuals are different. Our daughter is a nurse who has work with the special needs community for the last 20 years. Most teachers who go into this field know that there will be altercations. ETA: I have absolutely no problem with the soft restraints shown above. My issue is with the handcuffs around his upper arms and pulled behind his back.
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YooHoot
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Posts: 3,417
Jun 26, 2014 3:11:50 GMT
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Post by YooHoot on Aug 5, 2015 0:02:44 GMT
I must be watching a different video than some of you are. They say right in the narration that the reason he's not cuffed around the wrists is because the cuffs are too big. He's obviously uncomfortable and upset, but he's not screaming in pain or being injured or even treated roughly. I see the cop getting down on his level and speaking calmly to him, reminding him of his choices. I really don't see the outrage, to be honest. Those of you saying there's "no reason" to restrain a child like this have clearly never been punched, kicked or bitten by an enraged child with what seems like superhuman strength. You've never had thousands of dollars worth of damage done to classroom materials, many of which you purchased with your own money, and none of which are likely to be immediately replaced. You've never risked your job, teaching license and professional reputation putting your hands on a child to restrain him before he hurts himself or someone else. You've never chased a child a half mile down the road because when you took him out of the classroom to calm down, he bolted out the exterior door and took off. It's a sad situation, but some kids have serious issues. Safety has to be the first priority. I agree 100%. He's talking calmly, explaining what happened and why. He's not yelling, he's not violent, he's got his hand rested on his shoulder. I'm sure it's not comfortable, but how else can a 200 lb man restrain an 8 year old without being physical? He's there to protect this from himself and from harming others (and property) and I feel he did just that.
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Dani-Mani
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 3,705
Jun 28, 2014 17:36:35 GMT
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Post by Dani-Mani on Aug 5, 2015 1:00:53 GMT
I think the school needs to look into NCI/CPI. We use it for out of control students and it works. I'm fine with restraints but I absolutely do not support what they did. How do you know the restraint didn't happen after CPI first steps had already been followed? Because you wouldn't allow an agitated child out of a restraint. And if you need be, you put them back in. I'm one of the first (and sometimes the first) called on situations like above. I had a child throw a bench at me in May. I've had desks thrown at me, and chairs are almost always a given because they're easy to pick up. In middle schools, I often get text books thrown at me. For me, the proper training prevents situations like they found themselves in.
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Country Ham
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Jun 25, 2014 19:32:08 GMT
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Post by Country Ham on Aug 5, 2015 1:22:13 GMT
The cop probably weighed 200 and the child 50-70 pounds. When my son was 8, I had no trouble controlling him when he'd go into one of his rages. I might have gotten kicked a time or two, but I was able to wrap my arms around him until he was done flailing. There is no way I'd put handcuffs or zip ties on him. I'm sorry, but if you can't handle an 8 year old, you (general you), best be finding another line of work. When my son was in kindergarten, before he was verbal, he had the sweetest elderly lady as his aid. Because he would get frustrated trying to get his point across, he would pinch. And, not easy pinches either. She made arm covers out of an ironing board cover and covered her arms. She'd either sit behind him or have him on her lap, and he would calm down with her holding him. My son is now 27, and still pinches. He weighs about 30 pounds more than I, and stands 5 inches taller than I do. When the power and cable go out, it's a full on fit. He still pinches, and hard! I just have have to be sure to grab his hands before he grabs me. So, if this 200 lb man can't handle an 8 year old, he needs to find something that he can do. He's YOUR son. You don't mind getting kicked and pinched by him obviously. But no one else should be expected to to be OK with being assaulted by a child just because it's OK with you as a parent. Your definition of handling things is to be kicked and pinched while attempting to restrain but a teacher, aide etc shouldn't have to be. ETA: There is a kid in the same grade as my son but not his classmate. It's gotten better but in 2nd and 3rd grade when she threw fits everyone else had to move out of the classroom for their own safety while she they talked her down. She was never removed. 24 other kids had to move into another class room disrupting another classroom of 25 kids at least once a week for the whole year.
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TankTop
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Refupea #1,871
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Jun 28, 2014 1:52:46 GMT
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Post by TankTop on Aug 5, 2015 1:41:20 GMT
I totally agree with Mergeleft. The general public has no idea what teachers are dealing with each day. No idea.
As a teacher and parent it never ceases to amaze me what occurs in classrooms. What surprises me even more is how the other students in the room generally do not report these extreme behaviors to their parents. There have been times I have prayed for kids to go home and tell their parents in hopes of an uproar to get a student the needed help.
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Post by anxiousmom on Aug 5, 2015 1:49:07 GMT
I must be watching a different video than some of you are. They say right in the narration that the reason he's not cuffed around the wrists is because the cuffs are too big. He's obviously uncomfortable and upset, but he's not screaming in pain or being injured or even treated roughly. I see the cop getting down on his level and speaking calmly to him, reminding him of his choices. I really don't see the outrage, to be honest. Those of you saying there's "no reason" to restrain a child like this have clearly never been punched, kicked or bitten by an enraged child with what seems like superhuman strength. You've never had thousands of dollars worth of damage done to classroom materials, many of which you purchased with your own money, and none of which are likely to be immediately replaced. You've never risked your job, teaching license and professional reputation putting your hands on a child to restrain him before he hurts himself or someone else. You've never chased a child a half mile down the road because when you took him out of the classroom to calm down, he bolted out the exterior door and took off. It's a sad situation, but some kids have serious issues. Safety has to be the first priority. I admit, this morning when I saw the video, I was beyond sputtering in outrage. But then I read this thread and watched the video again and have really stepped back, thought about it some more and changed my opinion-base in large part to this post. A lot of times we post our opinions and think no one is really listening or that it won't really impact that way someone thinks-but you know what? It does. And did this time.
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